Guilty Gear Xrd -SIGN- announced (Unreal Engine)
- Thread starter Volcynika
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Tyrant Rave
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SolarPowered
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Dudes got BODIED. I'm gonna go ahead and say that GG has the potential to do better depending on how they present it in the single player department. A lot of people are just plain put off by Tekken's aesthetics in this part of the world(unfortunately). A new 2.5D fighter that makes SFIV look dated has potential to do much better than old Guilty games.
The evidence does favor your argument, though.
The Grim Heaper
Member
I had a new Millia avatar before it was cool! All of you others are just... hipsters, I guess! Yeah!
Though in your favor Mortal Kombat debuted at 1 million and Injustice seems to be around 660-700K+, so there are people at least buying something in the genre.
SFxT tanked with under 200K though.
Disapointed by art direction and how 3D renders it. Posting the image again to compare :
- The 3D lacks details for hair and small details on clothes as well on shadows on the muscles.
- Since it's 3D, the models don't deform like original sprites or like capcom did in SF4. So you can see that sol has short legs, a small head, large shoulders compared to his sprites (mainly on his stance, it's ok in most moves so it's cool)
- The models have the same problems some blazblue sprites have : it may be cool to use 3D but it negates the drawing part that made the original game stand out. For example the 3D model of sol has such large arms you can't distinguish the torso from the arm, it's ruining the silhouette of the characters, and the lack of deformation enphasize this.
About Art direction :
- Characters are more straightforward, less subtle in their incarnation. Sol has giant ponytail, giant muscle, giant sword, giant lighter... As if Arc was not sure people understand he is the badass of the game... Well now he's not badass anymore, he's just an anime hero with everything that could be enlarged being enlarged. Ky is the opposite : since he is a frustrated gay character, he has a ponytail as if gay means you are obviously feminine... I know it's for the bishojo thing but that's just shit too. It's juste like...
- THE GIANT BELTS everywhere... There were belts on GG characters, but not GIANTS belts. Sounding like the game is screaming "YO ANIME FANS I HAVE BELTS I AM STYLISH" but that's just ridiculous. Leather stripes/belts/wristband originally came from metal culture and GG was inspired by it... But now it's sounds more like a reference to anime than metal.
- The CG, portraits, chara design lost the Ishiwatari touch. It's the same characters, but streamlined to fit shitty taste of anime fans when Guilty Gear could appeal to both anime and metal fans/culture. No deformed art and faces, no grotesque attitude, no baroque, just anime, anime, anime.
I really like the fact they try something new, and when I see everyone liking this I am happy they are succeeding. I am sure they'll do a good job with gameplay,mWhat is left of it is just fragments of how genius it was before, when you could take risks and not just parody yourself. I just hope the next trailers/characters will prove me wrong.
Art direction wise it seems like they are trying attract the general anime crowd like blazblue. After seeing those models up close like that they sure look really cartoonish.
Beautiful. I hope there's an Ishiwatari voice option for gameplay just to hear the old Teiyah! again.
Delusibeta
Banned
On the other hand, Mortal Kombat is a western IP, and Warner Bros spent a fair bit of cash promoting it (you can't simply walk up to Skrillex and get him to promote your game by way of remixing without some cash in hand, for example). Injustice is probably selling off the back of Batman and Superman being on the box.
Right I mean I think it's certainly unlikely for this to debut at 100K+, but just that fighting games aren't wholly unsellabe here.
SolarPowered
Member
I thought SFxT had opened with 235k or so. Oh my... those are bad numbers.
All I think is that a 100k opening should be within the realm of possibility for once in GG's life. I guess it depends on the platforms too.
There is the anime crowd to consider too. The appeal should be at it's peak point with a fighting game that looks like this.
Zoramon089
Banned
How are these two things even remotely related?
Delusibeta
Banned
Right, and it'll have the advantage of being the grand reinvention of an old (albeit niche) franchise, such as MK9 or SF4. That said, the nicheness will probably be a factor, especially considering the gameplay will almost certainly be modified to accommodate online play better.
I wish I could be more positive. But as long as Guilty is still seen as "anime", with its "outlandish designs that could only come from Japan" and all, I don't think this newer game will have any more luck blowing up in the West than its predecessors did.
The only thing that GG has in its favor is the nostalgia may entice some people back who may not have played since X or XX/X2, and were turned off by BlazBlue. But otherwise, I think it's just going to be more of the same...
hayabusachop
Banned
Looks dope, but I know they are going to make a gazillion versions of it.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
Thanks, this one shall be mine.
mullet2000
Member
Taken, thanks!
rockman zx
Member
The development of this game started a long time ago, probably 3-4 years, people that is part of the dustloop community know it. I don't have any concerns about the roster but it's clear how this games work, not everyone will be there from the start.
I'm super excited about new characters, Daisuke design are always very unique, also this will be the first GG game with a decent story mode, in past games the story mode was a mess in terms of story telling.
I'm super excited about new characters, Daisuke design are always very unique, also this will be the first GG game with a decent story mode, in past games the story mode was a mess in terms of story telling.
This is exactly how I feel. Even TTT2 with Snoop Dog part of the promotion did under 100k in first month. Compared that to MK9 1M and Injustice 600k.
3-4 years? That would imply that they were working on it even before they officially announced they got the license back 2 years ago.
But good to hear, anyway! The longer they've been working on it, the more likely the roster may not be as small as some may fear.
ArcSys/Aksys (if they're even involved this time) aren't Warner Bros though.
They're not Capcom or Namco Bandai either.
They just don't have the money to raise awareness of this kind of game to the masses.
Eh, dated would imply there is some sort of tech issue. It isn't, this is just aesthetics. You like it better, but dated? Nah dude. Thems two different styles.
Also single player helps, but It is going to have to advertise quite hard. Tekken did kind of bad and it had the advantage of being tekken. Lets be real here this might be a bit of small market.
4 years ago mean they would have been developing this alongside development of the 1st BlazBlue (ok just a little after).
I highly doubt that's the case.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah I call BS, although I can see them doing at least 6 months of work for what we're seeing now.
I personally like GGs story-telling. It's very concise, and the VN style is very immersive, unlike BBs cutscene galore where you just stand back and watch 5 mins of dialogue before every match.
I do see ASW shifting to the BBs way of dealing with the story though. Hopefully the english VAs are as good as BBs.
Wow i didn't see about that at all. Sorry it has probably been discussed 10 times but is it 3D or 2D then ? Cause the renders are 3D but it animates as bad as the 2D game, so did they just prerendered eevery sprites (explaining the lack of them) or did they purposely use something to animate real time 3D with no intermediary frames ?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It's 3d, animated to look 2d
They're purposely keeping animation like this to keep the flow of the game.
Ok, well.. that's interesting.. Even if i don't really see the point of not using the 3D advantages to have something more smooth...
But i mean.. The frame count in GG is so low, don't they have some margin in 60 fps to actually have more frames while keeping timing intact ?
It likely depends on what "3-4 years" means. "3-4 years" that includes "1-2 years of planning", and "1-2 more of actual work after securing the license and getting the green light to proceed with the project" sounds a bit more plausible. Especially if the main thing that was holding up the works was waiting on Sega-Sammy's rights to GG to lapse or to otherwise work out a deal.
Graphics talk is nice but I'm more concerned about how it will turn out based on how BB has underwhelmed.
I guess if they stick to the old characters they have a good start unless they radically change them. But BB has a lot of problems with individual character design and mechanics. Most of them just are not fun to play, and a lot of them won or lost based on 1 or 2 gimmicks like the Clap Trap. That's true of some games to all degree, but it was really true in BB.
I feel like in GGXAC you can pick almost any character, even one you're not interested in, and have a lot of fun with them, whereas the reverse was true in BB - you pick a character who you think is going to be a lot of fun but they are sort of dull.
Maybe some of that is due to the fact that the fourth button was dedicated special moves. (Also I suppose it's a bit unfair to compare the first couple BB games to later GG, but it's not like BB was starting from scratch)
For example in GG I liked to play characters like Venom and Testament. Venom is crazy with all the different strategies you can employ, and both can fill the screen with all sorts of weird crap. (Yes I know the best strategy for Testament was his loop) In BB it looked like a couple of the characters would be similar to some degree, but they were really one-note by comparison.
Hopefully the problems with BB are more of a philosophical design thing they can just abandon, rather than the magic being gone.
I guess if they stick to the old characters they have a good start unless they radically change them. But BB has a lot of problems with individual character design and mechanics. Most of them just are not fun to play, and a lot of them won or lost based on 1 or 2 gimmicks like the Clap Trap. That's true of some games to all degree, but it was really true in BB.
I feel like in GGXAC you can pick almost any character, even one you're not interested in, and have a lot of fun with them, whereas the reverse was true in BB - you pick a character who you think is going to be a lot of fun but they are sort of dull.
Maybe some of that is due to the fact that the fourth button was dedicated special moves. (Also I suppose it's a bit unfair to compare the first couple BB games to later GG, but it's not like BB was starting from scratch)
For example in GG I liked to play characters like Venom and Testament. Venom is crazy with all the different strategies you can employ, and both can fill the screen with all sorts of weird crap. (Yes I know the best strategy for Testament was his loop) In BB it looked like a couple of the characters would be similar to some degree, but they were really one-note by comparison.
Hopefully the problems with BB are more of a philosophical design thing they can just abandon, rather than the magic being gone.
I explained the probably reason a couple pages ago if you take a look back.
Short version: hit boxes are discrete, animations need to be discrete to so that your brain can match character poses to hit boxes.
I dunno, it's possible, they're capable of it, but I think it might compromise the game design.
Heck, I think Battle Fantasia is better animated, but it's also significantly slower.
The_Player
Member
Ky looks like an anime girl, I thought Bridget was enough for a whole series, lol.
Hmm well ok. That's not totally clear to me how they cannot adapt that to more frames, or even why they have to keep there engine roots if they changed the whole render engine anyway.
But hey they must have there reasons, i'll believe you^^
At least, even if they had to make the design look like the SFII ugly HD remake, i love the fact that we can achieve this kind of render in 3D. Opens insane graphical possibilities!
That Dude John
Member
Thank you, kind soul.
rockman zx
Member
Correct. Daisuke has been working for a long time on how to make it right, probably with a small team, doing prototypes and stuff, Pachi hinted in 2010 that if a new GG would be created, it will be like SF4 and more "friendly".
I remember reading that!
I just hope more "friendly" doesn't mean taking away stuff like FRCs, easing up on the inputs and what-not.
I understand some things will likely change to make the game work better with ASW's modern netcode and so forth...but still...
They can, it would just slow things down.
J
Jotamide
Unconfirmed Member
I think ArcSys will definitely increase GGs input buffer in Xrd. The way the game is now is too strict because it's meant for an arcade setting, not for online.
Yeah...I understand things will have to change. Hopefully, seeing more and reading more details will do more to assuage any and all fears about this type of thing.
SolarPowered
Member
This is why you go the Baiken/Anji route. No belts there!
...yet
ShinobiFist
Banned
Disapointed by art direction and how 3D renders it. Posting the image again to compare :
- The 3D lacks details for hair and small details on clothes as well on shadows on the muscles.
- Since it's 3D, the models don't deform like original sprites or like capcom did in SF4. So you can see that sol has short legs, a small head, large shoulders compared to his sprites (mainly on his stance, it's ok in most moves so it's cool)
- The models have the same problems some blazblue sprites have : it may be cool to use 3D but it negates the drawing part that made the original game stand out. For example the 3D model of sol has such large arms you can't distinguish the torso from the arm, it's ruining the silhouette of the characters, and the lack of deformation enphasize this.
About Art direction :
- Characters are more straightforward, less subtle in their incarnation. Sol has giant ponytail, giant muscle, giant sword, giant lighter... As if Arc was not sure people understand he is the badass of the game... Well now he's not badass anymore, he's just an anime hero with everything that could be enlarged being enlarged. Ky is the opposite : since he is a frustrated gay character, he has a ponytail as if gay means you are obviously feminine... I know it's for the bishojo thing but that's just shit too. It's juste like...
- THE GIANT BELTS everywhere... There were belts on GG characters, but not GIANTS belts. Sounding like the game is screaming "YO ANIME FANS I HAVE BELTS I AM STYLISH" but that's just ridiculous. Leather stripes/belts/wristband originally came from metal culture and GG was inspired by it... But now it's sounds more like a reference to anime than metal.
- The CG, portraits, chara design lost the Ishiwatari touch. It's the same characters, but streamlined to fit shitty taste of anime fans when Guilty Gear could appeal to both anime and metal fans/culture. No deformed art and faces, no grotesque attitude, no baroque, just anime, anime, anime.
I really like the fact they try something new, and when I see everyone liking this I am happy they are succeeding. I am sure they'll do a good job with gameplay, I'll probably play it and all... But man... Guilty Gear, from an art point of view, is dead. What is left of it is just fragments of how genius it was before, when you could take risks and not just parody yourself. I just hope the next trailers/characters will prove me wrong.
I disagree on ALL fronts my dude. There is no lacking of detail on the hair. Is still has two layers of colors. The clothing is more loose than before, so less wrinkles you can see. Muscels were drawn that way back then(look at every sprite based fighter)to make it easier to animate. While this new version is simpler, but bulky. Something I didn't like in SFIV, and also here as well. But it does give it that graff look, and I like it, but not for Sol. If the developers had the resources back then to make games crazy high res and clean, I bet they would've went with an art style that was "it" at the time. Most likely on some "X" or "Fatal Fury Anime" style. And this game was ALWAYS aiming at anime fans from day one. Is like saying JoJo was meant for music purist and fashion fanatics....
I am super stoked.
I just don't see a lack of deformation. Ky and Sol don't deform that much in classic GG art. They've always had fairly normal proportions, even in action shots. Wait for characters like Faust or Zappa.
I think the problem is that characters are rendered at such a high detail now, that they need to be more complete. I think a lot of old GG designs were super mad anime, and all you had was one piece of HQ portrait art per character, but that was enough to fill in the spaces with something else.
What makes GG metal-inspired is not necessarily the character art, but the complete package. We haven't heard any stage music or seen any of the UI. None. All we saw was one stage that evoked a bit more Trigun than you were comfortable with, which was accompanied by a trailer score (Not stage music).
I just don't see a lack of deformation. Ky and Sol don't deform that much in classic GG art. They've always had fairly normal proportions, even in action shots. Wait for characters like Faust or Zappa.
I think the problem is that characters are rendered at such a high detail now, that they need to be more complete. I think a lot of old GG designs were super mad anime, and all you had was one piece of HQ portrait art per character, but that was enough to fill in the spaces with something else.
What makes GG metal-inspired is not necessarily the character art, but the complete package. We haven't heard any stage music or seen any of the UI. None. All we saw was one stage that evoked a bit more Trigun than you were comfortable with, which was accompanied by a trailer score (Not stage music).
it's just a tool though. does the UE really have that bad of a rep?
Meccanical
Member
Gears of War is the poster boy for it, it's not the engines fault the art design is shitty.
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