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[GamerXL]

:lol
delusion much?

Well, prove me wrong. Prove to me that Japan is needed in order for a console or a game to be successful. Prove to me that Japan hasn't fallen behind North America and Europe in importance.

Hell, even Japanese GAMES have fallen behind western games as far as sales dominance. I'm not saying Japan is irrlevant as a creative force, but it's not nearly as important as it used to be as far as sales.

I remember the days when most games were created just FOR Japanese audiences and what the west thought about the game or system was irrelevant. It's exactly the opposite now. Some Japanese developer make their games thinking about WESTERN sales first (Team Ninja and some Sega devs for example). And western develope games have taken over the charts here in the west. This simply isn't debatable.

I know some of you "everything-cool-comes-from-Japan" kids cringe just thinking about it. And I know some of the XBOX-haters on the forum smile from ear to ear everytime some "XBOX-is-doomed-in-Japan" talk gets brought up. But I'll repeat for those in the back:

It doesn't matter.

 

[mumu]

Oh boy you are in for a ride now

 

[SolidSnakex]

"Prove to me that Japan is needed in order for a console or a game to be successful. "

Who's dominating that console industry and mainly has Japanese game support? There ya go.

 

[GamerXL]

"Prove to me that Japan is needed in order for a console or a game to be successful. "

Who's dominating that console industry and mainly has Japanese game support? There ya go.

You mean the follow up to a system that sold over 60 million units? That console? And isn't its best selling game a western developed one?

C'mon, get out of fanboy mode and actually debate. Don't take it or make it personal, disagree with what I said and come with a retort, it's not hard.

And whenever this argument comes up about Japan being so "important" for a console to succeed, I don't mention the XBOX (which surpassed everyones expectation), I mention that and the Mega Drive.

Whoo, just bringing that up will cause some fanboys heads to burst.

 

[GamerXL]

Oh boy you are in for a ride now

Strong Japanese support hasn't exactly shot the Gamecube past the new kid XBOX, has it?

 

[SolidSnakex]

"And isn't its best selling game a western developed one?"

Not worldwide. It's the best selling game in the US though.

But seriously, how do you argue that Japanese support isn't important? Look at the Xbox for example because I know what that you're basing your theory on this. The Xbox is in 2nd place sure. But its not even going to outsell the N64 over its lifetime. The PS2 which is mainly a Japanese supported console is on track to being the best selling console ever (to top the PSone, another Japanese supported console which is the current best selling console ever).

 

[Screenboy]

If the PSX didn't steal all of Nintendo's Jap support then Sony wouldn't be in the position they're in today.


End Of Argument.




-SB

 

[Blackace]

I agree that Japan has been knocked down a notch, and Mircosoft is proving that getting the support of the rest of the world is very important to make it... but where would they be if they were selling at a half way decent rate in Japan, instead of not at all?

 

[Blimblim]

"Prove to me that Japan is needed in order for a console or a game to be successful. "

Who's dominating that console industry and mainly has Japanese game support? There ya go.

Yet most of the top games are from non japanese developers. Last month's NPD Top 15 had only 3 japanese games (all from Nintendo). I don't say these games are better than most japanese games (that's another debate), but it's been a long time since we got a very big selling game from Japan. I guess MGS3 / GT4 / FF12 / next Zelda will change this but I honestly can't remember what was the last japanese game (except pokemon) that sold more than 500.000 LTD in the US (Ninja Gaiden ?). I could be wrong of course, I do not follow the sales threads that much.

 

[GamerXL]

That's the point Blackace.

The XBOX is a brand new console made by a "hated" company with no experience in the area and it has beaten NINTENDO which is still synonymous with "videogaming" in much of the world. How could that happen.

Again, I feel the "Japan Is Coolness" crowd can't let go of their fanyboyishness and think more rationally.

Using the PS2 as basis is skewing this I believe. Breakdown how many PS2s have been sold in each market(and how it continues to sell in each market).

And Solidsnake keeps pounding the "mainly Japanese support" drum.

Final Fantasy
Gran Turismo

These are the two games I can immediately think of that pushed PS2 sales in the west that are from Japan. Really, nothing else springs to mind.

Face it, the PS2 sold initially simply BECAUSE it was the follow up to the PSX(the launch lineup was atrocious in my opinion).

The fact that the XBOX carved out a bigger niche than Nintendo (again, NINTENDO!) this generation really proves my point for me. Again, I'm not saying Japan IS irrelevant, I'm saying their getting close. Or would I be more correct in saying that the Western market has grown MORE important? Or is the most important?

 

[Great Wasabi Man]

I wonder if Master Chief had bobs and of coruse some wierd armor that exsenuated them and blue hair would it sell better...lol

 

[Blackace]

The point is to have Japan on board... Nintendo was the name for video games when I was a kid, my father called everything a Nintendo... "BOY stop playing that Nintendo and take out the trash" (Little Kevin turns off the C-64) But now the top dog is Sony... Beating out Nintendo didn't do anything for them... Sony is the big boy not Nintendo...

But Japanese game developers have started to come up lame. While EA, and Ubi have started to really heat things up. But to say Japan doesn't matter is just like saying any other major gaming area doesn't matter. Japan still has a huge impact on the gaming world, and that must not be overlooked....

 

[SolidSnakex]

Are we talking about winning the console generation or winning the US. Some of you are focusing on the US only and winning that isn't going to win you the generation. The PS2 dominates in every region.

"Or would I be more correct in saying that the Western market has grown MORE important? "

That's a better way of putting it. They've simply got a greater important now.

 

[TeTr1C]

Hm..that's weird.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Today I went to Akihabara to get my copy of Halo 2. But I did not even need to plunk down any cash because this man was giving them out from a stack:

Who is he? Does he work for Microsoft? I want that t-shirt.

It looks like I was the only person to accept a copy of Halo 2. I followed him around and saw him attempting to unload his extra copies on other people, but as you can see below, he was nothing short of unsuccessful.

Discuss.

That man... I do not why, but I would almost say he is a Bi-sexual CMOS engineer... .

 

[jiggle]

Just because sales are down in Japan does not make it "irrelevant" fiscally.

Profit is profit, no matter how small.

PS2 and GBA continue to put out good numbers week after week.

While the games are not selling like hotcakes, there are still many games week after week selling 100k - 500k. That's all profit for Sony and Nintendo.

You pointed out that many japanese company are starting to make games catering specifically to illustrate your point, yet your neglected the fact that the majority of these companies' library are still made in Japan, and appeal to the Japanese audience, if not a worldwide one. It's better to have a game that sells well in all regions instead of just one or two.


Xbox may be number two, but the gap between it and PS2 is HUGE. And this is because PS2 is strong in ALL REGIONS. And Japan will probably end up contributign to at least 20million units of PS2 by the end of its lifecycle. That's not a number to scoff at.
You cannot be the #1 control when you completely miss out on an entire region.

The only company Japan is irrelevant to, is Microsoft.

But unlike you, Microsoft know Japan cannot be ignored. That's why there's a continue effort to court the Japanese.

 

[GamerXL]

But Japanese game developers have started to come up lame. While EA, and Ubi have started to really heat things up. But to say Japan doesn't matter is just like saying any other major gaming area doesn't matter. Japan still has a huge impact on the gaming world, and that must not be overlooked....

This is where I get frustrated. I never said "Japan doesn't matter". In fact, I implictly said that as a creative force, Japan is still relevant. What I DID say is that that relevance isn't as important as the Western market as far as sales of a system. And what I DID say is that even Japanese games aren't as vital as they used to be. I believe BlimBlim made that point again.

I said Japan was thisclose. Japan (as far as a console's health) isn't NEARLY as important as the North American market, period.

It has also slipped behind the European market. Not by much but it has happened.

What they're really in danger of is becoming irrelevant as far as gaming sales. The biggest reason for this is the apparent creative rut the Japanese community is in as a whole. Sequel after sequel after cash run sequel is getting tired and original games like Viewtiful Joe and Jet Set Radio get ignored.

Granted, western developers have sequelitis as well, but when a new series is embraced by the mainstream, the basically come from the west.

Also, Japan's bread and butter, the RPG has faced a serious threat from the west. The western-style RPG is stepping up to challenge the death-grip of the JRPG.

All I'm saying is that Japan needs to pimp its game up. Again, it's just my personal observation. We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Blackace]

This is where I get frustrated. I never said "Japan doesn't matter". In fact, I implictly said that as a creative force, Japan is still relevant. What I DID say is that that relevance isn't as important as the Western market as far as sales of a system. And what I DID say is that even Japanese games aren't as vital as they used to be.

I said Japan was thisclose. Japan (as far as a console's health) isn't NEARLY as important as the North American market, period.

'"XBOX-is-doomed-in-Japan" talk gets brought up. But I'll repeat for those in the back:

It doesn't matter."

Not to be too much of an ass. But in some ways you are saying that Japan doesn't matter. You said it doesn't matter if Xbox sells well in Japan or not. And it does matter if they want to compete with Sony. If their business plan is to corner 2nd place then maybe Japan isn't important

 

[SolidSnakex]

"I said Japan was thisclose. Japan (as far as a console's health) isn't NEARLY as important as the North American market, period."

Ofcourse it isn't as important as the the US. But if you're talking about winning the entire generation, you're going to need Japan. That's the point.

"Also, Japan's bread and butter, the RPG has faced a serious threat from the west. The western-style RPG is stepping up to challenge the death-grip of the JRPG."

Not really. FF still dominates the US market. Even with extreme bashing it took in the US FFX-2 became the 2nd best selling console RPG this gen (behind FFX) in just 2 months of sales.

 

[jiggle]

Not really. FF still dominates the US market. Even with extreme bashing it took in the US FFX-2 became the 2nd best selling console RPG this gen (behind FFX) in just 2 months of sales.

You forgot Kingdom Hearts. Isn't it nearing or have already passed FFX?

Pokemon is RPG too, that's #1

 

[GamerXL]

'"XBOX-is-doomed-in-Japan" talk gets brought up. But I'll repeat for those in the back:

It doesn't matter."

Not to be too much of an ass. But in some ways you are saying that Japan doesn't matter. You said it doesn't matter if Xbox sells well in Japan or not. And it does matter if they want to compete with Sony. If their business plan is to corner 2nd place then maybe Japan isn't important

You guys get so stuck on "2nd place, 2nd place!" it's funny.

The PS2, the follow up to the uber successful PSX comes out over a year BEFORE the XBOX. Who was talking about the XBOX passing the PS2?

It DOESN'T matter that the XBOX didn't sell well in Japan. That's a fact. The goal of the XBOX has been achieved, the gain a foothold in the console market and pass Nintendo to do it.

Now the battle is for the next gen. Will Japan be as important in the next generation? My opinion is no, it won't. Will M$ try to do better in Japan? Of course! It would be nice to get some decent sales there. But are they going to concentrate full bore on sparkling North American and European sales? Yes.

Again, we'll agree to disagree.

 

[mumu]

Do you happen to work for AEG?

 

[Brofist]

You guys get so stuck on "2nd place, 2nd place!" it's funny.

The PS2, the follow up to the uber successful PSX comes out over a year BEFORE the XBOX. Who was talking about the XBOX passing the PS2?

It DOESN'T matter that the XBOX didn't sell well in Japan. That's a fact. The goal of the XBOX has been achieved, the gain a foothold in the console market and pass Nintendo to do it.

Now the battle is for the next gen. Will Japan be as important in the next generation? My opinion is no, it won't. Will M$ try to do better in Japan? Of course! It would be nice to get some decent sales there. But are they going to concentrate full bore on sparkling North American and European sales? Yes.

Again, we'll agree to disagree.

Even Bill Gates isn't as optimistic as you.

 

[Gantz]

How is Halo's popularity in Korea?

 

[Kon Tiki]

Again, we'll agree to disagree.

Can we all agree that your opinion does not matter?

 

[SolidSnakex]

"It DOESN'T matter that the XBOX didn't sell well in Japan. "

No it doesn't matter if you aren't trying to win the console war. It does if you are. Sony's Japanese fanbase for the PS2 is bigger than MS' US fanbase for hte Xbox. That's pretty telling don't you think? For a market you consider almost irrelevant, MS can't even get the Xbox to outsell that market in the industries biggest market.

 

[SantaC]

Even Bill Gates isn't as optimistic as you.

:lol

 

[SaitoH]

Hilarious thread!

Hey GamerXL, did you ever post as Johnnyawesome on another board?

;;

 

[Prine]

:lol

it'll be the same for prime2

 

[Zer0]

this gamerxl is a hilarious xbot

ninja gaiden? gt4? resident evil 4? metal gear 3? ico? winning eleven? virtua fighter?

JAPANESE GAMES . gamerxl.repeat with me..japanese games..

 

[snapty00]

I'd say that Japan is a very significant videogame market, although its importance is definitely behind North America and Western Europe nowadays.

 

[Lord Error]

That guy's Fishie, right? Man, he gained some weight since the last picture I saw him making fun of Kutaragi.

 

[bitwise]

I'd say that Japan is a very significant videogame market, although its importance is definitely behind North America and Western Europe nowadays.

agreed.

 

[kaching]

You guys say poor Microsoft... I say poor Japanese gamer's wouldn't know a good game if hit'em in the head. Halo 2 should be atleast tried.... Sad indeed.

A lot of games should at least be tried, by people who claim to be gamers the world over. Yet they don't, including many good games on the Xbox that go largely overlooked in the wake of the Halo games.

 

[Hellraizah]

I'm with GamerXL on this one.

I don't really care about Japan though, let them play their shitty RPGs and think they are magical fairies or something. I think that Japan doesn't want anything to do with Halo 2 because they fear THE FLOOD.

 

[Pug]

There are truths in the arguments regarding the JPN market in terms of both sales and development. Its still of course an important market but it is shrinking at an alraming rate. Development wise JPN has been left behind by both America and Europe and this indicated in that the western markets are going to be the places where consoles made or broken in terms of long term sales. Look at the GC, JPN support is still pretty strong but in the west its now virtually non excistant. Its not JPN controlling the sales of GC its western developers. If someone said the JPN videogames industry would lag behind western developers 5 years ago they would have vilified. Fact is it has happened.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That guy's Fishie, right? Man, he gained some weight since the last picture I saw him making fun of Kutaragi.

Fishie ? no... hahahahahaha


And that is not fat, it is pure MUSCLE .

No, that guy is not me .

 

[Chi-Town]

Can we even consider this to be news? Japan has ignored the Xbox and as a market they've never been that interested in FPSs. I didn't think Halo 2 would do anything to change that. Personally, I wrote off Japan when they didn't buy Ninja Gaiden.

 

[AirBrian]

I bring my EOS 300D with 24mm 1.8F lens everywhere I go just in case I run into weird shit like this. Geeze, it's like something Masamania would report on or something :lol

I don't want to derail the thread, so check your PMs please.

 

[Culex]

All Bungie had to do was make Halo 2 cell-shaded and throw in some popular anime characters, then they'd easily sell 1 million on day one.

 

[sonycowboy]

Can we all agree that your opinion does not matter?

I think we all agree with that.

And, I love how people say that the Xbox has proven that the west is more important than the east.

Why isn't it the PS2 that has proven that?

There is only 1 Xbox title that is in the top 30 of games sold worldwide and that's Halo (soon to be Halo 2). The PS2 has outsold the Xbox 3-1 in the US and over 5-1 in Europe. I'd say it's the PS2 has shown that the western market has risen to prominence more than the Xbox.

 

[signet]

I wouldn't take anything from a nut on the street while someone is snapping photos of me.

Be it Halo 2, MGS3 or Resident Evil 4.

 

[Ghost of Bill Gates]

Today I went to Akihabara to get my copy of Halo 2. But I did not even need to plunk down any cash because this man was giving them out from a stack:

Who is he? Does he work for Microsoft? I want that t-shirt.

It looks like I was the only person to accept a copy of Halo 2. I followed him around and saw him attempting to unload his extra copies on other people, but as you can see below, he was nothing short of unsuccessful.

Discuss.

This was obviously rehearse, But everyone here already knew Halo 2 wouldn't do well in that one market.

What's the point of this? It is funny to see people get so creative :lol

 

[Blackace]

This was obviously rehearse, But everyone here already knew Halo 2 wouldn't do well in that one market.

What's the point of this? It is funny to see people get so creative :lol

No I am pretty sure the guy giving away Halo 2 likes it from behind...

 

[Wintermute]

Sometimes I wished I lived in Tokyo instead of shitty old Osaka.

 

[Draff]

Osaka rocks. What're you talking about

 

[Brofist]

Sometimes I wished I lived in Tokyo instead of shitty old Osaka.

Where do you live, I'm gonna take the first train tomorrow and come whoop your ass.

 

[Blackace]

Sometimes I wished I lived in Tokyo instead of shitty old Osaka.

My better half is from Osaka. Osaka rocks the house, her family is so awesome!!!

 

[olimario]

I would have taken my copy
Changed clothes and put on a mustache
Gone back and taken another copy

Rinse, Repeat

 

[Screenboy]

I would have taken my copy
Changed clothes and put on a mustache
Gone back and taken another copy

Rinse, Repeat

I don't think he'd give a cop to someone dressed up as Mario

-SB