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[ncsuDuncan]

I think you had a good point Duncan, in the scheme of things, with shorter game lifespans and shorter dev cycles, subscription type services could work.

A big problem would be the initial deployment of it. Look how vehemently you were rebutted by a lot of Halo fans. People are resistant to change. We're no longer playing a single game everyday for years. Plus it would seem a bit convoluted and not straightforward. Plus leave it to Microsoft to try and get as much profit as possible. So I wouldn't trust them.

But I can see where you're coming from, I mean look how many stopped playing Halo 4, I'm pretty sure that for those who get the urge sometimes, subscribing for a month to have all DLC again for only $5, and if they don't like it, they leave again, and if they like it, they can resubscribe.

Thanks! People are resistant to change, but I think they'll be willing to listen when Bonnie Ross walks on stage at E3 and says:
"Halo multiplayer on Xbox One is free with XBL Gold."
[crowd gasps]
[Larry Hryb cackles]
"And for just $5/month Halo Premium gets you all kinds of extra shit, like new maps and early access to the Steven Spielberg Halo series."
"Hi I'm Steven Spielberg. Please enjoy this Medal of Honor erm, Halo thing I apparently signed off on."
[roll deleted scenes from Terra Nova]

-------
Besides, I don't think it's too convoluted.

> Free
> Premium

That's easier to understand than the DLC variables Fyrewulff pointed out:

I think the time period for paid DLC into eternity has passed us, at this point. I'd go so far as to say the days of maps being actual DLC instead of just bundled into the title update are about over. Splitting the userbase just hurt 4 with DLC.

Paid armor can be ignored, and doesn't split the userbase. Paid maps currently create the following permutations of Halo 4's playerbase:

Vanilla
Vanilla + All DLC
Vanilla + Crimson
Vanilla + Crimson + Majestic
Vanilla + Crimson + Majestic + Castle
Vanilla + Crimson + Majestic + Castle + Champion
Vanilla + Crimson + Majestic + Champion
Vanilla + Crimson + Champion
Vanilla + Crimson + Castle
Vanilla + Majestic + Castle
Vanilla + Majestic + Champion
Vanilla + Majestic + Castle + Champion
Vanilla + Castle + Champion
Vanilla + Champion

And people wonder why DLC starts getting rarer in the later days

 

[Orochinagis]

Thanks! People are resistant to change, but I think

Chill out, man.

Whatever happens, "people" will buy the game.

I liked how Double helix adopted a similar design of league of legends becoming entirely free and rotate the current free fighter each week.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

-14 maps at launch. With 8 Maps a year in additional maps.

[...]

Now, $40 a year is a steep price, and I won't agree with Duncan on that. $28-30 is a good range I feel like, for what you are getting. I also disagree with the Double XP stuff. Instead, the free users XP gain should be 75% the rate that Premium is at.

I think you missed where I changed my estimate for the DLC release rate to 3 maps every 3 months, giving you 12 maps a year for $40 - which is exactly what the Halo 4 DLC maps ended up costing.

Chill out, man.

Whatever happens, "people" will buy the game.

I liked how Double helix adopted a similar design of league of legends becoming entirely free and rotate the current free fighter each week.

So chill. "People are resistant to change" was me quoting Madness.

 

[Madness]

Chill out, man.

Whatever happens, "people" will buy the game.

I liked how Double helix adopted a similar design of league of legends becoming entirely free and rotate the current free fighter each week.

Yeah I wrote that, which is true. Switching to a subscription based, more F2P style of multiplayer will be opposed by many for the sheer fact it's different than what they've been used to. Of course people will still buy the game, I said they'd be 'reluctant' to. Don't know what you mean by chill out, he didn't really say anything lol.

 

[Devolution]

Down 3 people. Defending flag well but every time they get it, the lag gets worse. Just lovely. Halo 4 is great.

Also this game really loves throwing two people into games that have already started and are just lagfests.

Edit: Also CTF on Complex is some dumbass shit.

 

[Mistel]

It's 4 are you actually surprised in anyway at this point? Complex is just dire.

 

[Omni]

I paid full price for that dlc a year ago, after regularly playing since launch...

I'm why ms don't reduce prices.

Sorry guys

Spoiler

Me too...

I waited for so long... but eventually caved in. The modes aren't even that good!

 

[Devolution]

It's 4 are you actually surprised in anyway at this point? Complex is just dire.

I've never played complex ctf. It's a bad map this is like even more dumb.

 

[Orochinagis]

I think you missed where I changed my estimate for the DLC release rate to 3 maps every 3 months, giving you 12 maps a year for $40 - which is exactly what the Halo 4 DLC maps ended up costing.

So chill. "People are resistant to change" was me quoting Madness.

Yeah I wrote that, which is true. Switching to a subscription based, more F2P style of multiplayer will be opposed by many for the sheer fact it's different than what they've been used to. Of course people will still buy the game, I said they'd be 'reluctant' to. Don't know what you mean by chill out, he didn't really say anything lol.

Oh man, misinterpreted it then, sorry Ducan.

 

[Devolution]

What are the map packs worth buying? The answer is obviously none but any got big team maps?

 

[Mistel]

What are the map packs worth buying? The answer is obviously none but any got big team maps?

Well at this point your not likely to actually see the dlc once in a blue moon. If you did though get the one that came first thats most common it seems.

I've never played complex ctf. It's a bad map this is like even more dumb.

It has just no flow what so ever, it's just not designed properly for match making. It's the worse map in the game to me.

 

[Omni]

What are the map packs worth buying? The answer is obviously none but any got big team maps?

The first and third map packs were all big, IIRC. I bought all the map packs but haven't played on more than half, so can't remember haha

 

[Orochinagis]

What are the map packs worth buying? The answer is obviously none but any got big team maps?

Last map pack, not the champions, have some big maps on it

 

[Devolution]

Second question: are the maps good?

 

[Mistel]

Second question: are the maps good?

No there all pretty bad, shatter is better than meltdown and vortex but that's a low barrier. I can't say for the others I've not played them ever.

 

[Devolution]

Welp i'm convinced to not bother with the map packs then. Also don't want to pay more money on top of the game.

 

[TheOddOne]

Second question: are the maps good?

They never show up, so it’s hard to recommend any for them.

If I had to recommend, the Majestic map pack is the worthwhile one.

Edit: I fail at reading, the third map pack is the right answer for BTB maps.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Wait, I thought Halo community threads were closed til e3?

Second question: are the maps good?

I like the one that is bigger and sorta looks like it is from ODST. Not to be mistaken for the one which is smaller and sorta looks more like it is from ODST. But that one is also good.

 

[Omni]

Wait, I thought Halo community threads were closed til e3?

This one was kept open and we were warned to keep all discussion on Halo 4 only

Anyone gonna be playing later today? I have the day off. And my internet is uncapped, so I figure I might as well play some

 

[Mistel]

I like the one that is bigger and sorta looks like it is from ODST. Not to be mistaken for the one which is smaller and sorta looks more like it is from ODST. But that one is also good.

Skyline is the smaller one, with the bigger one is something to do with a nuclear reactor failure. That's all I know not that I've played either.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Wait, I thought Halo community threads were closed til e3?



I like the one that is bigger and sorta looks like it is from ODST. Not to be mistaken for the one which is smaller and sorta looks more like it is from ODST. But that one is also good.

Skyline is the smaller one, with the bigger one is something to do with a nuclear reactor failure. That's all I know not that I've played either.

Skyline and Perdition. Both are fun, and yeah both have a more interesting human city aesthetic. Would love for more of those kinds of maps in the future.

Spoiler

Hell you could remake Boarding Action in a city if you wanted.

As for DLC, if people have it I try to play them often in customs, so you can get your money's worth thataway.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Spoiler

Hell you could remake Boarding Action in a city if you wanted.

No.

 

[Woorloog]

Boarding Action would make more sense as near-top floors of skyscrapers (with broken/missing windows) instead of what the original one was...

 

[The Real Napsta]

Finally got an Xbox One, the sad thing is this is the least excited I've been for a new console in a long time. Really wish we could play Halo on this thing...

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Boarding Action would make more sense as near-top floors of skyscrapers (with broken/missing windows) instead of what the original one was...

Nope. Spaaaaaaaaaaaace

Finally got an Xbox One, the sad thing is this is the least excited I've been for a new console in a long time. Really wish we could play Halo on this thing...

Add me breh, UNKNOWN iXi. Titanfall's pretty fun butttt....

-insert PvZ GW plant

Spoiler

(no pun intended)

here-

 

[Nebula]

I wish there was some sort of pop up you could enable that asked if you wanted to save a film after the game had finished. It would be incredibly helpful.

 

[The Real Napsta]

I wish there was some sort of pop up you could enable that asked if you wanted to save a film after the game had finished. It would be incredibly helpful.

I really liked that "press X to save film" the Halo 3 beta had in the post game carnage report.

 

[Mistel]

Skyline and Perdition. Both are fun, and yeah both have a more interesting human city aesthetic. Would love for more of those kinds of maps in the future

As for DLC, if people have it I try to play them often in customs, so you can get your money's worth thataway.

Passive aggressive customs are 1am glare , I like the headlong style for urban areas I like the aesthetic design.

Nope. Spaaaaaaaaaaaace

No one can hear you scream? Make it like flood infested high charity now that would be pretty...

 

[belushy]

I think you missed where I changed my estimate for the DLC release rate to 3 maps every 3 months, giving you 12 maps a year for $40 - which is exactly what the Halo 4 DLC maps ended up costing.



So chill. "People are resistant to change" was me quoting Madness.

Maybe the maps are worth it, but as people said already in the thread, Gold subscription is a large problem.

Maybe an incentive to buy gold is that for multiple months purchased, you get a Halo Premium time in return? Hell, that would probably make people who are not even interested in Halo give it a try. 3 month purchases gets you 14 days Premium, 6 months gets you a month, and a year gets you a 2 months.

 

[Nebula]

I'd like to see some forge maps introduced to BTB. I'm getting really bored of playing Exile and Ragnarok.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Passive aggressive customs are 1am glare , I like the headlong style for urban areas I like the aesthetic design.

Something something 'murica.

The games would chug harder than a linebacker at a frat party.

Team Slayer Forge maps barely work without lots of frames dropping, I don't really know how a BTB map would work unless it was very minimal in size/scope.

I sort of assumed that's why they pushed out more larger maps initially, personally, rather than this "they want Halo to eventually be 32v32" sentiment.

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

I'd like to see some forge maps introduced to BTB. I'm getting really bored of playing Exile and Ragnarok.

The games would chug harder than a linebacker at a frat party.

Team Slayer Forge maps barely work without lots of frames dropping, I don't really know how a BTB map would work unless it was very minimal in size/scope.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

No one can hear you scream? Make it like flood infested high charity now that would be pretty...

That would be awesome: a battle in space in a setting like that. Boarding Action would play well with the H4 DMR to shoot across sides.

 

[Booties]

How is having a gold subscription a large problem?

It sucks that so many people were excited to buy the season pass only to have all DLC playlists removed. Definitely the least responsible playlist management to date. I still can't believe the game was released while 343 didn't really have a solution for managing more than 10 playlists. RIP Shiska. RIP 343.

 

[Mistel]

That would be awesome: a battle in space in a setting like that. Boarding Action would play well with the H4 DMR to shoot across sides.

H4 DMR's? No way anniversary pistol instead... I liked that idea flood version of boarding action. It wouldn't work in 4's sandbox at all, maybe in the future.

 

[SpankmasterC]

So I've just started playing Halo 4, after finally caving in when I saw the game for €20, so far I like the MP! Flood is a nicer/better version of the old proven gamemode, SWAT is still fun as hell and I actually like the new Medal Madness playlist, funfunfun! It's sad to see the playerbase not being what it used to be with the previous Halo's but hey: I can still find a match, even in the sparsely populated playlists within a few short minutes so it's okay.

Nothing like Halo matchmaking with friends, especially after getting used to the atrocious Battlefield matchmaking....

 

[Booties]

So I've just started playing Halo 4, after finally caving in when I saw the game for €20, so far I like the MP! Flood is a nicer/better version of the old proven gamemode, SWAT is still fun as hell and I actually like the new Medal Madness playlist, funfunfun! It's sad to see the playerbase not being what it used to be with the previous Halo's but hey: I can still find a match, even in the sparsely populated playlists within a few short minutes so it's okay.

Nothing like Halo matchmaking with friends, especially after getting used to the atrocious Battlefield matchmaking....

Yeah, halo is either on it's way out the door, or experiencing a down period while it transitions. Only time will tell.

funfunfun! is my favorite. 9.8/10!

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

H4 DMR's? No way anniversary pistol instead... I liked that idea flood version of boarding action. It wouldn't work in 4's sandbox at all, maybe in the future.

Have you played Boarding Action? The Anniversary Pistol would be terrible on that map; it has a small clip/ammo count and it's only 2x. Boarding Action is huge, so shooting across would just waste your ammo, much like the Halo 3 BR from any sort of distance.

Yeah, halo is either on it's way out the door, or experiencing a down period while it transitions. Only time will tell.

funfunfun! is my favorite. 9.8/10!

This'll probably be my last time bringing it up first, but I still don't understand how anyone can seriously think Halo may be "on its way out the door." I just don't see it..

Frankie says 60fps in a post and how they're returning to their roots (this is literally said with every single Halo title and we've already known about 60fps since E3) -> people go CRAZY
Some random mentions Halo 2 Anniversary -> people go CRAZY
Any Phil Spencer tweet about Halo -> people go CRAZY
Just about anything new regarding Halo, especially a next gen Halo -> people go CRAZY

But I guess I'm just crazy.

 

[FyreWulff]

How is having a gold subscription a large problem?

It sucks that so many people were excited to buy the season pass only to have all DLC playlists removed. Definitely the least responsible playlist management to date. I still can't believe the game was released while 343 didn't really have a solution for managing more than 10 playlists. RIP Shiska. RIP 343.

Requiring Gold will always enforce a ceiling on Halo's potential population. It's just the nature of requiring a subscription to even play the game.

DLC playlists disappeared from 4 because requiring DLC on a playlist absolutely tanked it's population. Remember the Team Slayer DLC experiment?

Team Slayer dropped from the top 2 to the bottom 2 in playlist population and they never came back and added DLC reqs to Team Slayer after the GOTY released.

Same thing happened to the special weekly playlists, the first one was DLC required, and it's population was abysmal.

edit: source cite

http://halo.bungie.org/halobulletins/114
343 announces they're requiring Majestic for Infinity Slayer

Starting 9/16, you will need the Majestic Map Pack to play Infinity Slayer. As the goal of this is to gauge if the DLC-required playlist solution is a viable one, we will be monitoring its population closely. The Game of the Year edition of Halo 4 - which includes all Halo 4 map packs - launches in early October, so we scheduled this change for a time when we can gather data without its impact, then also with it. I'd like to stress this is an experiment, and is in no way, shape or form a permanent move at this time. The primary thing to note is we know you want to play your DLC more often, and we're dedicated to doing everything we can to make that happen.

http://halo.bungie.org/halobulletins/118
(after the GOTY was on shelves, with all DLC included)

Also, after reviewing the last month of feedback and data from the Team Slayer playlist, we've decided to remove the Majestic DLC requirement. One of the primary goals of this experiment was to determine the feasibility of required DLC in Matchmaking, and while we knew the population of the playlist would drop, we found that the resulting numbers did not allow for the optimal Matchmaking experience for this playlist. As of this coming Monday, no DLC will be required to play in the playlist.

 

[Chettlar]

I never liked boarding action. Maybe I just didn't know how to play it. I could just never get anywhere without being sniped. It was super easy to get kills by camping behind a barrier and watching the nearest ladder. Didn't really encourage movement, especially since there was hardly anywhere to move.

Then again, I was playing on PC with everybody with snipers, but then how else would you get kills?

 

[Fuchsdh]

I never liked boarding action. Maybe I just didn't know how to play it. I could just never get anywhere without being sniped. It was super easy to get kills by camping behind a barrier and watching the nearest ladder. Didn't really encourage movement, especially since there was hardly anywhere to move.

Then again, I was playing on PC with everybody with snipers, but then how else would you get kills?

I didn't think it was great either, but a reimagining could be interesting. The most attractive thing about CE maps is they were so aesthetically bare you could redesign them into virtually any environment.

Halo 4 does suffer from a lack of variety in certain maps that makes its (quite solid) architectural design seem samey and rote, so it's be great to break that up next game. Monolith, Skyline, Shatter, Harvest and a lot of the DLC maps were generally improvements in that regard.

 

[Booties]

I'm old and don't remember, was there ever a time when you could play Halo MM without gold? Seems like an odd thing to mention if it's been the norm for a decade now.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I didn't think it was great either, but a reimagining could be interesting. The most attractive thing about CE maps is they were so aesthetically bare you could redesign them into virtually any environment.

Halo 4 does suffer from a lack of variety in certain maps that makes its (quite solid) architectural design seem samey and rote, so it's be great to break that up next game. Monolith, Skyline, Shatter, Harvest and a lot of the DLC maps were generally improvements in that regard.

That's what I was hoping for with Halo 4 maps: simplicity in design (geometry and art style). I dislike games like CoD with detailed maps where I can't tell if that's a bush, a piece of paper floating or an enemy.

I'd love to see colorful building blocks in Forge that look like they were ripped out of CE textures. Something similar to those Mirror's Edge trials.

I'm old and don't remember, was there ever a time when you could play Halo MM without gold? Seems like an odd thing to mention if it's been the norm for a decade now.

No, but they did have a few weekends where you could play without it IIRC.

 

[Chettlar]

Might I bring this to your attention.

EDIT: aaaand it's down.

 

[Woorloog]

I'd like to see some forge maps introduced to BTB. I'm getting really bored of playing Exile and Ragnarok.

No, we don't need more framerate issues, especially for splitscreen.
Forged maps suck, in looks and usually gameplay-wise too.

 

[Chettlar]

That's what I was hoping for with Halo 4 maps: simplicity in design (geometry and art style). I dislike games like CoD with detailed maps where I can't tell if that's a bush, a piece of paper floating or an enemy.

I'd love to see colorful building blocks in Forge that look like they were ripped out of CE textures. Something similar to those Mirror's Edge trials.

No, but they did have a few weekends where you could play without it IIRC.

They did have those Gold free weekends.

I remember being about to apply a weeklong trial for Gold once. It just happened to be the day Battlefield 4's Beta was available, and consequently, MS had given everybody access to Gold for that weekend (Fri, Sat, Sun).

It wasn't just mulit though. It was also good for things like IE, apps, and such. So gold in it's entirety (minus Gold exclusive store deals).

 

[Booties]

I was hesitant to pull the trigger on that console. I made it to the final check page, but then started thinking how dumb it is to have an xbone for just one game. I'll wait.

 

[Fuchsdh]

That's what I was hoping for with Halo 4 maps: simplicity in design (geometry and art style). I dislike games like CoD with detailed maps where I can't tell if that's a bush, a piece of paper floating or an enemy.

I'd love to see colorful building blocks in Forge that look like they were ripped out of CE textures. Something similar to those Mirror's Edge trials.

No, but they did have a few weekends where you could play without it IIRC.

That's what I was hoping for with Halo 4 maps: simplicity in design (geometry and art style). I dislike games like CoD with detailed maps where I can't tell if that's a bush, a piece of paper floating or an enemy.

I'd love to see colorful building blocks in Forge that look like they were ripped out of CE textures. Something similar to those Mirror's Edge trials.

No, but they did have a few weekends where you could play without it IIRC.

Well, there's a difference between being highly detailed and being "busy". I would say CoD falls on the latter side of the spectrum, and Halo generally on the former (when I think of the issues with Halo's maps in general or Halo 4's in particular, it's usually not related to there being too much details to make out items and more likely 'there's too many obstructions in the middle of Solace', or 'The rocks all look the same'.

I do hope that Forge offers variations on the same blocks in its next iteration, even if it's just a flatter, colorable piece and then a more detailed variation. Thanks to the shadows and less busy pieces, along with the addition of more natural objects, Halo 4 Forge maps look much better than Halo Reach Forge maps, but there's still a "Minecraft problem" where having similar textures for floors and walls makes you feel a bit like you're trapped in a badly UV-wrapped tube or something similar. Having simpler and alternate textures for the same pieces solves that problem to some degree.

 

[Karl2177]

Kinda sucks that they removed it because most players (foolishly) didn't use it that often given the few times it appeared in the first place and also given the often odd placements on their associated maps. You simply cannot win games in high level doubles if you let the other team have the grenade launcher every time. Also using 343's line of logic of removing unused weapons, why the hell was the cumbersome and unnecessary Concussion Rifle kept in for Halo 4? This is purely anecdotal but I honestly saw way more GL use than CR use. So why did the GL fit the bill and not the CR or even the Plasma Pistol as the Henery pointed awhile back? Can you give us the stats on how these three weapons compare (esp GL vs CR)?

So for the Plasma Pistol, it gets really foggy. The primary function of the Plasma Pistol was to strip shields, not to kill. Also, the way Reach handles EMPs is pretty weird. If the player charges up the Plasma Pistol and hits an opponent, it counts as an EMP assuming the player is killed. If they pulse the Plasma Pistol, it doesn't always count as an EMP. Also, there aren't any publicly available stats on how much damage each weapon has caused. So Plasma Pistol stuff is out sadly.

As for the Grenade Launcher versus the Concussion Rifle it looks like this.

HaloGAF used the Conc less, everyone else used it more.

Another thing with the ConcRifle that should be noted is that if the player knocked their opponent off the map, like on Countdown, it counted as a falling kill. I wish there was a way to see what all caused the player's death, like League and Dota do, but it's probably just a pipe dream.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Where are the stats for how many vehicles were EMP'd with the Grenade Launcher? How about the stats of Grenade Launcher assists? Also, the Concussion Rifle knocking people off the edge happens a lot with the Grenade Launcher as well, especially against the Banshee and Falcon.

What about the stats on fun/enjoyment? How does the Grenade Launcher compare to many other weapons that were kept over the years? Any stats of player satisfaction? Any stats on difficulty of use?