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Halo 4 |OT2| TURBO

I never saw anything wrong with having advantageous positions on a map. So many people here complain about the ridge, but it's not like you can't fight it or find alternate ways around the map.

The ridge is broken, man. It's akin to spawn killing on 1-sided objective on Burial Mounds in Halo 2. Before you have a chance to fight back, if a team of non-idiots holds the hill, you're already half shields upon spawn in the best case scenario. You can "fight it", sure, but you won't win that fight if the other team knows what they're doing, even if your team does too. You can find other ways around the map, but those other ways aren't giving you any kind of vertical advantage, control of power weapons (both railgun and incineration cannon are on or right below the ridge), advantageous angles. really anything. The best you'll get is a hog, and a good team won't let it near their setup.

Not to mention a good team has a couple people at cave-side base and on top of shotgun, thus guaranteeing you spawn at the other base or out in the open. If it's the latter, you're basically already dead, and if the former, you're already trapped. Which team gets the advantage from the start can come down to a single piece of 1v1 combat, which leads to your team spawning with you on the ridge (because that was a smart spawn placement). Or, sometimes, everyone dies in the initial struggle, but one team's standard spawns include a couple partway up the hill!

The map is bad in every way imaginable. It's "functionally symmetrical", the spawns are broken easily, there's an absurdly dominant power position, power weapons have poor placement, but probably worst of all, it's almost always played with Infinity's shitty settings.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
I never saw anything wrong with having advantageous positions on a map. So many people here complain about the ridge, but it's not like you can't fight it or find alternate ways around the map.

CE was all about holding positions on a map, but the thing that makes it stand out is that a single player can overtake a power position if they were skilled/aware enough (the weapon set lent itself to this; each weapon was powerful but required some skill -- each had a unique trait, furthering its usage). Thankfully, Halo 4 isn't Halo 3 so you actually have a chance to overtake such a seemingly OP position because of the consistency boost in weapons. It may not empower an individual player as much as CE, but at least it's an improvement over the past games, especially Halo 2's and Halo 3's requirement to teamshoot.

I don't mind Settler as much as people do here but I think it's an example of where a power position tips the scales into plain too effective. If you have the ridge you've essentially won the game; and while fighting over it can be fun and intense, I never feel like I have any option *but* to fight over it.
 

belushy

Banned
I never saw anything wrong with having advantageous positions on a map. So many people here complain about the ridge, but it's not like you can't fight it or find alternate ways around the map.

CE was all about holding positions on a map, but the thing that makes it stand out is that a single player can overtake a power position if they were skilled/aware enough (the weapon set lent itself to this; each weapon was powerful but required some skill -- each had a unique trait, furthering its usage). Thankfully, Halo 4 isn't Halo 3 so you actually have a chance to overtake such a seemingly OP position because of the consistency boost in weapons. It may not empower an individual player as much as CE, but at least it's an improvement over the past games, especially Halo 2's and Halo 3's requirement to teamshoot.

Agreed, I think Settler was a decent map. Would have been horrid without the ridge. I guess mainly because when I did have Halo 4, pretty much every game I was in with damn idiots who would rush the ridge at the beginning and I'd sit back and peg them with the DMR. I was an assist machine in BTB. I suck at Halo though so I never really ever got that many kills. My best game in Halo 4 was... 37-0 I think... all I did was stay the back of my base on Ragnarok with the sniper and these idiots would just keep chilling on the middle ridge and it was just too easy. Didn't have another game like that after that though.

I'm actually starting to miss Halo 4.... not because I liked the game or anything, but I just miss playing a "Halo" game I guess.
 

Omni

Member
My best game in Halo 4 was... 37-0 I think... all I did was stay the back of my base on Ragnarok with the sniper and these idiots would just keep chilling on the middle ridge and it was just too easy.
KobeStaresBrown.gif

UGH.

I really hate players that do this. Never doing anything to help the team. Just camping at the back of the map out of view of literally everyone and just picking people off with a sniper. It's even worse when they have that shitty stability perk and use active camo
 
The ridge is broken, man. It's akin to spawn killing on 1-sided objective on Burial Mounds in Halo 2. Before you have a chance to fight back, if a team of non-idiots holds the hill, you're already half shields upon spawn in the best case scenario. You can "fight it", sure, but you won't win that fight if the other team knows what they're doing, even if your team does too.
Disagree. You spawn behind the base, distant enough away from the ridge. Let's consider 8v8, how many people are on the ridge? Where is everybody? If you're playing against a party of 8 then you're probably going to lose regardless. If 4v4 or 5v5, it's not an issue.

You can find other ways around the map, but those other ways aren't giving you any kind of vertical advantage
I used to play on my 50 and hold the bottom of Construct. You talking to the wrong guy pal ;]

Teamwork and awareness >

control of power weapons (both railgun and incineration cannon are on or right below the ridge)
Railgun has 3 (maybe 4?) shots as does the Incineration, no? Not to mention, how hard is it to dodge those from a distance and while shooting at them with your DMR/BR. I don't consider this an issue given the size of the map and the types of power weapons.
advantageous angles
Well yeah, that's the point of a power position. Thing is, not everyone can use those angles unless they expose themself by jumping on top of the rocks.
The best you'll get is a hog
"A" Hog? Or my Hog?
heh
and a good team won't let it near their setup.
If you're playing against a good team like that in 8v8, you're going to lose anyway unless you have a team yourself. In that case, you spawn far enough away from the base (and if they get closer then you'll spawn elsewhere) that you can fight back right off spawn thanks to the range and consistency of the DMR/BR, especially compared to previous games.

So yeah, I disagree. I actually find that map fun for this very reason; I enjoy a challenge if I'm down like that. Maps are too boring when they're too "balanced" in terms of symmetry. CE was the PROEST HALO YEAH and it had like what, a few symmetrical maps?

And that's another thing.. Pro gaming leagues only had the option of choosing base maps with CE and Halo 2, and not all of them were symmetrical or perfectly balanced for competitive play, but they worked fine. I could only imagine all the kids complaining these days about campers with Rocket on Chill Out or people holding blue base on Hang 'Em High; man up breh.
<3


EDIT:
I don't mind Settler as much as people do here but I think it's an example of where a power position tips the scales into plain too effective. If you have the ridge you've essentially won the game; and while fighting over it can be fun and intense, I never feel like I have any option *but* to fight over it.
But IMO that's alright because it's only one map that has that kind of power position, and not every game plays out like that anyway. As a result, I agree with it being fun to fight over.
 

Sofa King

Member
UGH.

I really hate players that do this. Never doing anything to help the team. Just camping at the back of the map out of view of literally everyone and just picking people off with a sniper. It's even worse when they have that shitty stability perk and use active camo

Can't tell if this is serious. 37 kills and not helping the team? Using a sniper at long range picking people off is doing it wrong?
 
Can't tell if this is serious. 37 kills and not helping the team? Using a sniper at long range picking people off is doing it wrong?
I'm inclined to agree, but hopefully rosso's trying to say that he could've positioned himself around the team or in a more advantageous position to help the team out with setups instead of camping back for kills that probably didn't help with anything but totaling the score.

We don't know who won the game after all.
Obviously I wasn't referring to him. I'm talking about gameplay style.

Particularly in objective.
I help you and this is what you respond with, before I get to help you?

Stand up for yourself!

betty_slap.gif
 

Omni

Member
I was gonna post what you did! But then I realised that I probably couldn't develop the argument without saying "it annoys me and it's bad"

hah
 

Madness

Member
I'm inclined to agree, but hopefully rosso's trying to say that he could've positioned himself around the team or in a more advantageous position to help the team out with setups instead of camping back for kills that probably didn't help with anything but totaling the score.

We don't know who won the game after all.

I help you and this is what you respond with, before I get to help you?

Stand up for yourself!

betty_slap.gif

But if the guy can go 37-0 without dying, it seems like he knows what he was doing and did everything perfectly. There's no way anyone could be disappointed with a performance like that.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
But if the guy can go 37-0 without dying, it seems like he knows what he was doing and did everything perfectly. There's no way anyone could be disappointed with a performance like that.

Your K/D doesn't really mean anything in a team game. The DotA 2 thread is filled with people posting their loss games where they went positive but picked the wrong hero for the matchup and were upset people weren't playing around their hero choices, etc.

Getting a positive K/D is less likely to hurt your team than going negative, but to point to a positive K/D and say "it's the rest of my team's fault we lost" is a bad attitude to have. Sometimes, maybe even many times, you could be right. But then there are times you're just going to be the jerk who's camping to preserve his score rather than the larger goal of the match.

(something something how lots of people play CTF games.)
 

Madness

Member
Your K/D doesn't really mean anything in a team game. The DotA 2 thread is filled with people posting their loss games where they went positive but picked the wrong hero for the matchup and were upset people weren't playing around their hero choices, etc.

Getting a positive K/D is less likely to hurt your team than going negative, but to point to a positive K/D and say "it's the rest of my team's fault we lost" is a bad attitude to have. Sometimes, maybe even many times, you could be right. But then there are times you're just going to be the jerk who's camping to preserve his score rather than the larger goal of the match.

(something something how lots of people play CTF games.)

Of course. But, and I'm assuming this was a BTB slayer game on Ragnarok, getting 37 kills with zero deaths is a net positive to the team. I mean come on, the guy got 37 kills without a single death. Plus he has sniper and says they just kept standing on the middle ridge. Can't really blame him.

I know the kind of people others mention. They do stupid things like camp and boltshot in a small corner all map, or do all kinds of weird things.

Edit: been a while since I've played Settler, but I think the big issue with the map was how it played with the base Halo 4 gameplay. Camo, jetpack, the DMR, instant respawn, JiP and playing with randoms.
 
Your K/D doesn't really mean anything in a team game. The DotA 2 thread is filled with people posting their loss games where they went positive but picked the wrong hero for the matchup and were upset people weren't playing around their hero choices, etc.

Getting a positive K/D is less likely to hurt your team than going negative, but to point to a positive K/D and say "it's the rest of my team's fault we lost" is a bad attitude to have. Sometimes, maybe even many times, you could be right. But then there are times you're just going to be the jerk who's camping to preserve his score rather than the larger goal of the match.

(something something how lots of people play CTF games.)
Your words can be beautiful sometimes, Fuchead.
Of course. But, and I'm assuming this was a BTB slayer game on Ragnarok, getting 37 kills with zero deaths is a net positive to the team. I mean come on, the guy got 37 kills without a single death. Plus he has sniper and says they just kept standing on the middle ridge. Can't really blame him.

I know the kind of people others mention. They do stupid things like camp and boltshot in a small corner all map, or do all kinds of weird things.

Edit: been a while since I've played Settler, but I think the big issue with the map was how it played with the base Halo 4 gameplay. Camo, jetpack, the DMR, instant respawn, JiP and playing with randoms.
We still don't know what gametype it was, how long the match was, just about any details lol. You know what they say about people who assume..

This is
nonsense!
You thought I was going to say madness, didn't you..
 

belushy

Banned
UGH.

I really hate players that do this. Never doing anything to help the team. Just camping at the back of the map out of view of literally everyone and just picking people off with a sniper. It's even worse when they have that shitty stability perk and use active camo

Haha yeah I get you. I didn't usually play like that when I did have the game. Sniper is pretty easy to use in Halo 4 too, which doesn't help.
 
People are defending Settler? It's better than the Cage, but if you are playing against people who are good and they control the hill/ridge your team is boned.

Add to this that the initial rush to take the hill can be determined by a stray grenade bounce here or there and you've got a borked map.

That map needs a sniper rifle in each base and rockets/incinerator should be where shotgun spawns. Put shotgun where incinerator spawns if you absolutely can't bring yourself to ditch it. Railgun should go too.
 

Mistel

Banned
"A" Hog? Or my Hog?
heh
I thought your hog would be rather tiny :p.

Settler is dire and you know it, hold the ridge with easy and break the spawns it's like a massacre. Nothing wrong with power positions on a map but when a single one has dominance? That's just not fun at all to be picked off by dmr's you can't kill because of crappy spawns.
 

Nebula

Member
Funky implying you can run a Hog on Settler made me giggle. Maybe for 30 seconds in Big Team Slayer if the other team doesn't go for Carbine loadout.

Scrap Settler.

I know the kind of people others mention. They do stupid things like camp and boltshot in a small corner all map, or do all kinds of weird things.

Weird things eh? :)
 

Woorloog

Banned
The Warthog works just fine in Settler, if you have coordinated gunner-driver team and you don't get stuck on the frigging crates on the ridge if you drive through it.
Since the map is smallish, it doesn't even have a lot of anti-vehicle power weapons in Infinity Slayer, making it actually decent map for that too.
Usually the 'Hog's biggest threat is the other 'Hog.
 
The Warthog works just fine in Settler, if you have coordinated gunner-driver team and you don't get stuck on the frigging crates on the ridge if you drive through it.
Since the map is smallish, it doesn't even have a lot of anti-vehicle power weapons in Infinity Slayer, making it actually decent map for that too.
Usually the 'Hog's biggest threat is the other 'Hog.

Isn't there an incineration cannon?

Every time I've seen a ridgeline hog run it just ends up causing a good billion or so grenades to be funneled in that general direction.
 

Woorloog

Banned
The Incinerator Cannon takes time to respawn and is not an ideal weapon for destroying distant Warthogs (up close it is another matter, but then this is the case for all anti-vehicle power weapons sans the Laser). So majority of the time, you're free to use the Warthog. When the Cannon is in the play, you gotta be careful.
In Infinity Slayer, the Plasma Pistols and Plasma Grenades are still far more dangerous...
 
I thought your hog would be rather tiny :p.

Settler is dire and you know it, hold the ridge with easy and break the spawns it's like a massacre. Nothing wrong with power positions on a map but when a single one has dominance? That's just not fun at all to be picked off by dmr's you can't kill because of crappy spawns.
The ridge only has room for like 3-4 people to shoot out into the map, so it's not like all 8 players get the ridge and it's auto win. If anyone else wants to shoot from the ridge they have to jump on top of the rocks, exposing themselves for easy pickings.

Also, you do have cover from the ridge as well, on either base. It's not like it's the ridge and a flat empty map elsewhere. Couple that with sprint, AA's, more range/consistency from the rifles off spawn, etc. and I really don't think it's an issue. I've played competitive games on that map and it actually turns out to be fun; I love fighting over power positions in a Halo game. I don't want every map to be a perfectly symmetrical box, circle or whatever. I want diversity in every corner of the game.
Funky implying you can run a Hog on Settler made me giggle. Maybe for 30 seconds in Big Team Slayer if the other team doesn't go for Carbine loadout.

Scrap Settler.
I ran Hogs on Settler with 2 Turret guys on top, a gunner and a passenger, and HaloGAF were my guests of honor. Get at me.


EDIT:
The Incinerator Cannon takes time to respawn and is not an ideal weapon for destroying distant Warthogs (up close it is another matter, but then this is the case for all anti-vehicle power weapons sans the Laser). So majority of the time, you're free to use the Warthog. When the Cannon is in the play, you gotta be careful.
Exactly, Woorlog gets it. You think I'm getting in close to people? Hell no, I don't want splatters.. I want competent gunners. Combine an aware Wheelman with a legit gunner and you have the potential to be highly effective on any map.
In Infinity Slayer, the Plasma Pistols and Plasma Grenades are still far more dangerous...

Not with the Wheelman mod.
 
The Incinerator Cannon takes time to respawn and is not an ideal weapon for destroying distant Warthogs (up close it is another matter, but then this is the case for all anti-vehicle power weapons sans the Laser). So majority of the time, you're free to use the Warthog. When the Cannon is in the play, you gotta be careful.
In Infinity Slayer, the Plasma Pistols and Plasma Grenades are still far more dangerous...

Ordinarily no, but I thought we were talking specifically about ridge runs. If that's the case, the warthog's speed should be pretty easy to gauge, and - if not - the Incineration Cannon's radius is so ridiculously huge in the first place that I don't see it having much trouble making mincemeat out of any vehicle up there.
 

Woorloog

Banned
Ordinarily no, but I thought we were talking specifically about ridge runs. If that's the case, the warthog's speed should be pretty easy to gauge, and - if not - the Incineration Cannon's radius is so ridiculously huge in the first place that I don't see it having much trouble making mincemeat out of any vehicle up there.

True. But if the Incinerator Cannon is in the play, you won't drive to the ridge unless you're stupid, or desperate, or perhaps both.
And if you suspect it is in the play, you will avoid that area as well.
Play assuming the worst and be paranoid.

Not with the Wheelman mod.

I use it often but even with it, the Plasma Pistols are dangerous, the second you're vulnerable may be all the enemy needs.
And you're not using the perk all the time in BTB, are you? Mobility is so damn good...

Speaking of Halo 4 perks, what does HaloGAF use?
My main perks are Mobility and Ammo, as they're good all-around perks, the latter is especially useful. Wheelman is the primary replacement for Mobility. For Ammo, there is no real replacement though i think i will use Gunner for vehicle loadouts once... if i get it unlocked (running out of Live in a few days and not renewing right away, perhaps not at all this year).
 

CyReN

Member
At least Halo made a list again, AMIRIGHT.

Seriously though I didn't mind him too much, just the battle wasn't good at the end. Came out of Halo 4 disliking Palmer more.
 

Omni

Member
I'm always using the stealth perk in all of my loadouts... Just so that in the rare occasion where I come up against some asshole using Promethean vision, I can assassinate and teabag him when he least suspects it.

I actually teabag everyone who uses PV. And active camo. And jetpack. Hah! Can't help myself.

plus I also use Firepower to compensate for running out of ammo so quickly (BR + DMR)
 
Not going to bother clicking, since I assume they've lumped the Didact in with some of those MGS minibosses and perennial platforming idiots like Bowser and Eggman.

Not to say that the Didact was well-handled in the game, but putting him alongside gaming's "dumbest" villains raises the stock of gaming too much.
Just because there's no consistency in the video with regards to tone, doesn't mean they can't make valid and/or fun points lol -- Just take it as a fun watch, nothing serious or structured that will be noteworthy as a reference by all gamers.
I use it often but even with it, the Plasma Pistols are dangerous, the second you're vulnerable may be all the enemy needs.
And you're not using the perk all the time in BTB, are you? Mobility is so damn good...
Yeah, Wheelman and Survivor because I love driving vehicles.
Speaking of Halo 4 perks, what does HaloGAF use?
My main perks are Mobility and Ammo, as they're good all-around perks, the latter is especially useful. Wheelman is the primary replacement for Mobility. For Ammo, there is no real replacement though i think i will use Gunner for vehicle loadouts once... if i get it unlocked (running out of Live in a few days and not renewing right away, perhaps not at all this year).
Both of the shield ones (recharge delay and recharge rate).
 
I'm always using the stealth perk in all of my loadouts... Just so that in the rare occasion where I come up against some asshole using Promethean vision, I can assassinate and teabag him when he least suspects it.

I actually teabag everyone who uses PV. And active camo. And jetpack. Hah! Can't help myself.

plus I also use Firepower to compensate for running out of ammo so quickly (BR + DMR)

Unlimited Sprint + Ammo is a godsend in Spartan Ops. Being able to cover unlimited ground and having extra clips on a headshot-capable weapon really helps considering most other weapons do next to nothing versus Prometheans. On the levels where you are provided ammo, there's usually so much for 4 players it shouldn't be a problem.
 

Woorloog

Banned
The Didact's problems in Halo 4 are Bond Villain Stupidity and that his motives and background (or at least they're touched very superficially only) are basically left out almost completely. Don't read Halo Expanded Universe and you're fucked. I like how is designed otherwise though, and the voice is good too.
(The final fight, specifically the cutscene before it is also rather... stupid. And non-sensical. They should have gone for more Halo 2-like boss battle, IMO. Or even only a cutscene, anything else than quick-time events though i'd prefer a boss battle, i want to beat villains myself.)

And a note about the Forerunners in Halo franchise in general. The Didact has six fingers, in Halo 4 and as described in Halo Cryptum. Now the funny thing is, Halo 2 has a Forerunner holo-panel with a hand... with six fingers. I think Bungie originally intended humans to be Forerunners, i think some of them have said that directly actually. Halo 3 actually hints at that with Guilty Spark's "You're are a Forerunner!" but the Halo 3 terminals make it clear they're separate species. But Halo 2... it had a six-fingered Forerunner hand*, don't think humans have that. Makes me wonder, was the Didact having six fingers inspired by this panel...

*Presumably. It could have been an oversight, a joke or something else but i don't care, i think it is a Forerunner hand.

EDIT re: perks. I'd argue ammo perk is worthless in Spartan Ops, you can just respawn always. Not that there are any better options, though Explosives is not bad.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
The Didact's problems in Halo 4 are Bond Villain Stupidity and that his motives and background (or at least they're touched very superficially only) are basically left out almost completely. Don't read Halo Expanded Universe and you're fucked. I like how is designed otherwise though, and the voice is good too.
(The final fight, specifically the cutscene before it is also rather... stupid. And non-sensical. They should have gone for more Halo 2-like boss battle, IMO. Or even only a cutscene, anything else than quick-time events though i'd prefer a boss battle, i want to beat villains myself.)

And a note about the Forerunners in Halo franchise in general. The Didact has six fingers, in Halo 4 and as described in Halo Cryptum. Now the funny thing is, Halo 2 has a Forerunner holo-panel with a hand... with six fingers. I think Bungie originally intended humans to be Forerunners, i think some of them have said that directly actually. Halo 3 actually hints at that with Guilty Spark's "You're are a Forerunner!" but the Halo 3 terminals make it clear they're separate species. But Halo 2... it had a six-fingered Forerunner hand*, don't think humans have that. Makes me wonder, was the Didact having six fingers inspired by this panel...

*Presumably. It could have been an oversight, a joke or something else but i don't care, i think it is a Forerunner hand.

EDIT re: perks. I'd argue ammo perk is worthless in Spartan Ops, you can just respawn always. Not that there are any better options, though Explosives is not bad.

While I think the ultimate goal was to make the Forerunners humanity's predecessors, I'm sure Bungie didn't flesh that out in Halo 1 and Halo 2; their approach was always to construct an elaborate universe but leave a lot of gaps and see where they went. And while I can see the evidence for Forerunners actually being humans, with 343GS "you are Forerunner" and the "reclaimer" definition from Mendicant Bias in Contact Harvest, there's a lot that contradicts it as well (such as the ARG they put out at the same time) which makes me think it might have been more Staten's pet idea rather than something codified at Bungie.

Personally, I think 343's explanation is more interesting and feeds less into the "humanity is everything!" trope of scifi (even if it heavily revolves around whether or not people *do* think humanity is everything in the books and games.)
 
Ah the Didact, a boss who could kill master chief with one hit but nah press and button and kill me.

The Didact could like destroy his armor then stranded him into an unknown planet then go for earth while chief gather forerunner stuff to get a new armor and return to earth. there you go a good script for Halo 5 and 6.
 
Next thread title for either 4/general community needs to include: The Psychology of Derps

It is the key to enjoying Halo 4... Fun games last night, always nice to have a full party. ¡Hola Kame!

What I learned this page is that FUNKNOWN has only played complete morons on Settler. Ridge is a fortaleza de muerte (sp?).
 

Chettlar

Banned
It is the key to enjoying Halo 4... Fun games last night, always nice to have a full party. ¡Hola Kame!

What I learned this page is that FUNKNOWN has only played complete morons on Settler. Ridge is a fortaleza de muerte (sp?).

If I may, mightn't that just have something to do with the Halo 4 population at large?
 

Tzeentch

Member
Personally, I think 343's explanation is more interesting and feeds less into the "humanity is everything!" trope of scifi (even if it heavily revolves around whether or not people *do* think humanity is everything in the books and games.)
-- The Librarian has five fingers, right? And it's debatable whether the panel in Halo 2 is actually a hand or not.
-- The Forerunners shown in Halo Legends all have five fingers as well, even the Warrior-Servants. It could be a sign that the mutations of the Didact are far beyond the normal (his height would also be a clue).

-- As Staten wrote Contact Harvest I think we can safely surmise that Ancient Humans were originally the Forerunners (making them literally the forerunners of current humans) who were left behind or survivors of the Halo firing who placed themselves on the original homeworld (penance for screwing things up?). Obviously the memo didn't reach everyone, hence all the bizarre and annoying contradictions before Halo 3 terminals pretty much put the kibosh on that idea :)
 
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