Eh, isn't that fairly standard for mech games? You could do the same thing in G-Nome for the PC. Even had the same first person view when you ejected out of your HAWC.
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Halo 4 |OT2| TURBO
- Thread starter Tashi
- Start date
Eh, isn't that fairly standard for mech games? You could do the same thing in G-Nome for the PC. Even had the same first person view when you ejected out of your HAWC.
xxjuicesxx
Member
But they just added it to Halo 4 coincidentally? Which isn't a mech game? Somethings afoot here.
User 73706
Banned
xxjuicesxx
Member
^! I REST MY CASE
Prinz Eugn
Member
Now if they had reactivated the thrusters on the Mantis, that would be something. Or, like a super vehicle explosion perk.
Orochinagis
Member
Mantis had thrusters? I think the mantis have missile reflector too
Prinz Eugn
Member
I thought I remember reading somewhere it was the original intention for the mantis to be able to jump or boost, but I might just be making it up. It does have little rocket nozzles in it's leg and crotch area, I kind of assumed that's what they were originally there for.
Bregmann Roche
Member
Mantis needs a flamethrower instead of a missile launcher. Every UNSC vehicle needs a flamethrower from now on.
Reported.
YourExWife
Member
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Halo 4 Mantis would have been cooler if it controlled like a Titan. It's almost as if Halo devs are afraid of speed, and that's something that's always been reflected in gameplay changes between releases. Thankfully, Halo 4 was an improvement for the most part; faster animations, faster movement, overall faster gameplay.
Halo doesn't need to have CoD kill times and Quake traversal speed, but it also doesn't need to be a sluggish game.
Halo doesn't need to have CoD kill times and Quake traversal speed, but it also doesn't need to be a sluggish game.
This is the single biggest reason i like Halo 4 so much over Reach.
And this speed thing is the reason i never liked the Scorpion or Mantis, too slow and boring (yes yes, the tank in Halo CE was fast but its abysmal accuracy made it boring, if sort-of balanced). The Wraith is okay because its very design and function makes it an interesting vehicle. Also has boost.
The Mantis shouldn't exist in Halo in the first place though, it doesn't feel Halo.
Now, i could accept the Forerunners having vaguely mech-like vehicle but i doubt they'd have it walk due to their mastery of gravity and anti-gravity...
I just don't understand the "mechs aren't Halo" sentiment. You've got guys running around in powered superarmor makes sense there would be upsized versions of the tech. Walkers have a theoretical niche they could fit into (although I doubt they'd give it 'cliffwalking' features in the games.)
I like the Mantis as is, and I think if it were put onto better, vehicle-focused maps from previous Halos (as opposed to Halo 4's very tight, chute-focused movement) a lot of the frustration would disappear because the drivers would feel confident moving more, and they'd also have more opportunities to take it down. If people want a nimbler, glass cannon-styled mech I wouldn't be opposed to that either.
(I think getting rid of the stomp is a decent idea. The animation is so slow that I never really feel like it's a good idea to use against halfway decent players. Maybe it should just be able to run over players and small vehicles--not sure how it would interact if you ran into a tank though.)
I like the Mantis as is, and I think if it were put onto better, vehicle-focused maps from previous Halos (as opposed to Halo 4's very tight, chute-focused movement) a lot of the frustration would disappear because the drivers would feel confident moving more, and they'd also have more opportunities to take it down. If people want a nimbler, glass cannon-styled mech I wouldn't be opposed to that either.
(I think getting rid of the stomp is a decent idea. The animation is so slow that I never really feel like it's a good idea to use against halfway decent players. Maybe it should just be able to run over players and small vehicles--not sure how it would interact if you ran into a tank though.)
User 73706
Banned
Just found an exclusive sneak preview of the next Halo: Eggscalation issue.
It doesn't fit stylistically Halo, or at least the UNSC. Covies have 4-legged walkers and they're okay, but i'd complain about two-legged ones if they had any. But two-legged mechs... nope. Big mechs are way too unrealistic (they only work in mech-scifi like Battletech), at least the Mantis is small.
The Mantis certainly doesn't fit the UNSC due to how it looks... those thin leg connections and generally slim build, in a faction dominated by bulky things and utilitarianism (well sort of, many UNSC things are not that practical).
EDIT Art of Halo 4 has Mantis concept art. Not a single one would fit the UNSC's style, not the bulky ones, not the flimsy ones. If there were a concept art that fit, i'd say that. The Goliath in Starcraft fits Terrans but the Viking and Thor do not, IMO. I'm not opposed mechs automatically, but they need to be well thought out and fit stylistically to the faction that would have it.
A mech is not scaled-up powered armor. Square-cube law, you see (presumably one could make them workable with anti-gravity tech, but if you have that, why bother with walkers, why not make a hover tank? 4-legged walker with AG assist might work in rugged ground, for non-combat role as the Scarab is meant originally, though it having AG assistance is pure speculation).
And of course, gameplay-wise the Mantis doesn't work well, though it'd call it a tad more balanced than the Scorpion, though this depends on the map of course (in Valhalla, the tank would be utterly OP, in Longbow it is just OP).
I would rather had the UNSC have a hover anti-aircraft tank than the Mantis (which is, fictionally, AA-platform). Or the Halo Wars Cyclops, though presumably a Spartan cannot fit in one.
The Mantis certainly doesn't fit the UNSC due to how it looks... those thin leg connections and generally slim build, in a faction dominated by bulky things and utilitarianism (well sort of, many UNSC things are not that practical).
EDIT Art of Halo 4 has Mantis concept art. Not a single one would fit the UNSC's style, not the bulky ones, not the flimsy ones. If there were a concept art that fit, i'd say that. The Goliath in Starcraft fits Terrans but the Viking and Thor do not, IMO. I'm not opposed mechs automatically, but they need to be well thought out and fit stylistically to the faction that would have it.
A mech is not scaled-up powered armor. Square-cube law, you see (presumably one could make them workable with anti-gravity tech, but if you have that, why bother with walkers, why not make a hover tank? 4-legged walker with AG assist might work in rugged ground, for non-combat role as the Scarab is meant originally, though it having AG assistance is pure speculation).
And of course, gameplay-wise the Mantis doesn't work well, though it'd call it a tad more balanced than the Scorpion, though this depends on the map of course (in Valhalla, the tank would be utterly OP, in Longbow it is just OP).
I would rather had the UNSC have a hover anti-aircraft tank than the Mantis (which is, fictionally, AA-platform). Or the Halo Wars Cyclops, though presumably a Spartan cannot fit in one.
User 73706
Banned
While this would make sense, I think you can actually have your Spartan units pilot it just like they would any other vehicle. Once the Spartans gained popularity they started super-sizing a lot of the tech to accommodate them above and beyond, hence things like the Magnum looking big as a sewing machine.
I forgot about that... Well, i'd like the Cyclops much more than Mantis in any case. Though a soldier in a powered armor in a powered armor is kind of redundant but whatever.
How it could work in a Halo shooter:
The Cyclops a melee unit, with repair and throw ability, totally unique, and interesting. Probably shouldn't be able to splatter, not sure about while charging or when landing on top of someone.
Right trigger punches, left trigger uses the welding tool (why not make it able to repair vehicles?), LB picks up and throws (first press picks up, second throws) the closest object that isn't too big and that object deals damage based on its weight (so throwing a Magnum is not nearly as useful as throwing a Rocket Launcher is), RB is charge (since it is mostly a melee unit, it could use a charge to close distances fast, medium-to-long cooldown).
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I think just about anything can exist in the Halo universe as long as they set it up properly. Mechs work fine because they've existed for a while now and the cannon behind them make sense (ie: Halo Wars, Halo Legends, other fiction). And honestly, after playing Titanfall I'd be fine with 2v2/4v4 being classic Halo and BTB doing something different like making changes to map traversal similar to Titanfall. Let them experiment with BTB, just don't allow Plasma Pistols and Plasma Grenades in loadouts..
Crazy how that was a thing
Crazy how that was a thing
, and perks.
hahah
xxjuicesxx
Member
March Madness bracket for HaloGAF + HGS. Owner of the greatest bracket may just entitle themselves to something great!
http://games.espn.go.com/tournament-challenge-bracket/2014/en/group?groupID=50117
iheartheckfu is the password if anyone needs it. Create your brackets before the first round starts.
Sorry for Offtopic convo.
http://games.espn.go.com/tournament-challenge-bracket/2014/en/group?groupID=50117
iheartheckfu is the password if anyone needs it. Create your brackets before the first round starts.
Sorry for Offtopic convo.
Orochinagis
Member
Didnt the mantis is actually the new version of the Cyclops which is a load vehicle but with guns?.
I still think its a bit of silly seeing a spartan driving a mantis, I wont be surprised to see colored mantises in halo 5 as a cosmetic paywall feature.
I still think its a bit of silly seeing a spartan driving a mantis, I wont be surprised to see colored mantises in halo 5 as a cosmetic paywall feature.
Just found an exclusive sneak preview of the next Halo: Eggscalation issue.
I can confirm this is legit.
It's hard to see, but if you look closely you'll see Hamish Beamish in that picture.
It's just forky with legs and guns.
(powerloader with plasma sword arms & jetpack/boost plskthx)
l Zealot l
Member
Apparently so. They hinted this when one of the halo 4 maps were revealed. The one with the giant mech been built in the middle.
I dont really like the mantis and would much rather have the hornet or falcon back. Although I cant imagine a halo 4 map where either would be of use.
Is it safe to say the general consensus is that bungie era mp maps are just vastly superior to 343 era? (I know it's the first game). I'm not sure if sprint, perks and different vehicle movement was taken into account when designing them.
The Real Napsta
Member
So after Halo 4's original maps is everyone ready to concede that Halo Xbox One should launch we remakes of good maps that we know work for sure?
Midship plays every gametype well.
Sidewinder would be amazing to have back for BTB.
Agree/disagree/
Midship plays every gametype well.
Sidewinder would be amazing to have back for BTB.
Agree/disagree/
You going to make me beg for it again aren't you?
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
It's just forky with legs and guns.
(powerloader with plasma sword arms & jetpack/boost plskthx)
Been saying this for years, so I agree 100%. It's crazy, even the Forge remakes of classic maps I generally like more than the on disc maps for the past few games lol - It just makes sense to release several remakes given the position Halo is in; returning to its roots and trying to recapture that classic formula for a new generation of consoles/gamers.
They should focus on 100% symmetrical maps, at any rate. A good symmetrical map is automatically good as an asym map for 1 flag and 1 bomb. An asym map, no matter how good it is, is only good for 1-sided gametypes.
But you can't also do what they did with Halo 4, and bring back Valhalla with zero changes.
User 73706
Banned
After all the aesthetic changes that Halo 4 brought along, I'm actually kind of hoping they pull a Wes Craven's New Nightmare for "Halo 7" that hard reboots the franchise. No dudebro, no darker and edgier. Let the fear reside in the ambience and ambiguity of the isolation. Leave wiggle room for the once-ancient factions. I honestly had a lot of hope for Halo 5's story before the Greg Bear trilogy went overboard with keeping a closed circle and killed off just about every potential thread they could have incorporated. If they manage to go back to some of the original roots as a snarky, surprisingly colorful and mysterious hurdle, I think a lot of people would be on board. It's never been canon, but I also like to think that fully physical, three-dimensionally-comprehensible Precursor tech looks like stuff straight out of Giger's fever dreams. Keeping them off the map as enemies but leaving a relic or two behind like a weapon would be interesting.
As-is, I feel like the Reclaimer Saga is going to get too nominal and get overly human-centric, get a little too sci-fantasy, and delve into the Spartan psychosis that nobody really wants to hear about. "More machine than man" has been a theme since Halo 2's Gravemind cinematic, and I like the idea behind it, but I'm extremely concerned that they're going to try and teach Chief how to love in the following games. Someone in one of the "games with great setpieces" thread mentioned that in Halo, you made the setpieces, and its story is no exception - just remember all the weird fanfic shit that popped up in the interim before Halo 2 and Halo 3.
If it were ever to be rebooted, though, I'm also somewhat concerned they'd shoot for classic Bungie "Arcane Energies" Studios and not classic Halo. Near the end of their run, I feel like all of the restrictions put on the titles over the years like scrapped content, deadlines, etc. made it turn into something they really didn't want it to be, and - despite having a story bible - they pretty much did whatever sounded cool to them at the time and tried to let Nylund make sense out of it. I also feel like this is part of 343's problem, where they've got their own vision for it and as a result Halo's going off the rails without anyone really doing cohesive lore quality control across the entire franchise.
As-is, I feel like the Reclaimer Saga is going to get too nominal and get overly human-centric, get a little too sci-fantasy, and delve into the Spartan psychosis that nobody really wants to hear about. "More machine than man" has been a theme since Halo 2's Gravemind cinematic, and I like the idea behind it, but I'm extremely concerned that they're going to try and teach Chief how to love in the following games. Someone in one of the "games with great setpieces" thread mentioned that in Halo, you made the setpieces, and its story is no exception - just remember all the weird fanfic shit that popped up in the interim before Halo 2 and Halo 3.
If it were ever to be rebooted, though, I'm also somewhat concerned they'd shoot for classic Bungie "Arcane Energies" Studios and not classic Halo. Near the end of their run, I feel like all of the restrictions put on the titles over the years like scrapped content, deadlines, etc. made it turn into something they really didn't want it to be, and - despite having a story bible - they pretty much did whatever sounded cool to them at the time and tried to let Nylund make sense out of it. I also feel like this is part of 343's problem, where they've got their own vision for it and as a result Halo's going off the rails without anyone really doing cohesive lore quality control across the entire franchise.
Why does the Mantis have that big long penis thing? And the
and 343i were making fun of MC's space diaper pre-release
User 73706
Banned
The Mantis was allegedly supposed to have thrusting / juke moves, but chances are they couldn't get the vehicle synced up even without it having too many pieces of interaction physics.
Could have been a fuel tank, and the urethra port up front probably shot sparky space jizz out.
Yeah, that's actually pretty much exactly right.
l Zealot l
Member
New playlist for halo 4: proving ground.
BR starts, motion tracker, no ordinance or armour abilities.
Might give it a try.
BR starts, motion tracker, no ordinance or armour abilities.
Might give it a try.
I've not had chance to capture it yet
Halo has been lacking true symmetry for some time. I'd love some symmetrical BTB maps. Maybe 2 Flag will play much better then.
Devolution
Member
Longbow what.
Symmetrical maps. I used to think i didn't like them*. Now, i do like 'em. All i want is them to have visually different sides though, helps navigation and makes the map more interesting looking.
Why i didn't like them? On the account of them being boring, so to speak. Played a lot of local Halo 2 FFA, asymmetric maps were so much better suited, and more interesting, for small scale FFA than symmetric maps. Odd how i developed my preferences based on that.
Might be good idea to have maps that can be split in two easily for one-sided gametypes to create asymmetric maps, or have asymmetric maps that are can be mirrored to make larger, symmetric map.
For example, if we mirror Last Resort/Zanzibar at beach, we get a rather interesting looking symmetric map, suitable for larger games (or alternatively the walls could be blocked and leave us the middle third, for a small symmetric pseudo-desert...)
Why i didn't like them? On the account of them being boring, so to speak. Played a lot of local Halo 2 FFA, asymmetric maps were so much better suited, and more interesting, for small scale FFA than symmetric maps. Odd how i developed my preferences based on that.
Might be good idea to have maps that can be split in two easily for one-sided gametypes to create asymmetric maps, or have asymmetric maps that are can be mirrored to make larger, symmetric map.
For example, if we mirror Last Resort/Zanzibar at beach, we get a rather interesting looking symmetric map, suitable for larger games (or alternatively the walls could be blocked and leave us the middle third, for a small symmetric pseudo-desert...)
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I really hope the next game gives us red and blue bases with some colors around the map for callouts.
Tell me when you do I want to see it in all it's glory.I've not had chance to capture it yet
Halo has been lacking true symmetry for some time. I'd love some symmetrical BTB maps. Maybe 2 Flag will play much better then.
Symmetry would be great for objective games, I can't even think of a close to perfectly symmetrical map in 4.
They don't have to blue and red, just different, though additional colors or perhaps lights can help.
A map with shadowed side and light side for example works, double so if it has gray rock/material and is set during sunset, this colors one side reddish and the other is more blue (Narrows used this if i recall correctly).
Other than that, maps should have distinctive areas that are easy to name, or that anyone recognizes when spoken about, if the game doesn't come with callouts like Halo 4 (Reach had them though they were too... broad).
Oddly enough, it is easier to make callouts for asymmetric maps, IMO. Though in symmetric maps one can prefix them, eg "Red Forest" though this doesn't work that well in my experience... (tried calling places with "[team]-[place]" for my friends but my names don't seem to be obvious enough).
Huh. Map design is in itself rather interesting to study and think about. Often more interesting than playing the map itself.
2-axis symmetry (such maps have always been rare in Halo, mirror-maps are more common)? Haven is symmetric in one axis. That spaceship-based map, the ugly map with mech in the middle, it is symmetric but, uh... I need to read about the terms...
I seriously opened this thread up to make this comment.
TheOhrenberger.
Banned
I actually think Halo 4 had really good original BTB maps (I really liked Longbow and Meltdown), but remakes are always welcome. I mean a good multiplayer map is endlessly replayable, and it's ultimately good maps which make a multiplayer game fun. I'm sure a few people would cry fowl if like half of halo 5's maps were remakes, but I also think most of use would be pretty happy with that so long as they're remakes of the best halo maps. Having a lot of remakes could also (possibly) give the designers more time to work on the new/original maps in Halo 5 since I can't imagine it takes that much time to remake a map, and that might make the new maps better.
To me a better goal is to focus on maps that can't easily be remade in Forge, either the current iteration or whatever comes in the future. People can make Lockout in their sleep these days, but Relic is essentially impossible in the current version.
Remakes are rarely good. Or more precisely, a game's mechanics and gameplay may not suit a map from another game. Of course, this depends on the degree of difference between two game's gameplay, but even a small change can have enormous consequences. Valhalla/Ragnarok is an excellent example, 3x scopes change the map's flow and gameplay a lot, to worse. And Blood Gulch too, in Reach the map is pretty bad (though i never found the map to be that good in Halo PC either).
A good map's design points and layout can be used, but it should be tweaked for the game it is used for, and while at it, bad points of old maps (don't say there is a flawless map) can be tweaked.
EDIT i don't mean remakes don't work or that they can't be good, The Pit in Reach MLG works rather well even though the ruleset used wasn't vanilla Reach nor Halo 3. Ironically i actually liked the map there a lot more than in Halo 3 (even with BR starts i didn't like The Pit at all and still don't (and this is primary reason i won't bother buying that one Halo 4 DLC)).
Still, i prefer new maps, there is always a possibility of a new map being great, a proper classic, and in general it is more interesting to see new places than to fight in the same old areas again and again. This extends to campaigns, i didn't like Halo 3 final mission, they should've made something new...
A good map's design points and layout can be used, but it should be tweaked for the game it is used for, and while at it, bad points of old maps (don't say there is a flawless map) can be tweaked.
EDIT i don't mean remakes don't work or that they can't be good, The Pit in Reach MLG works rather well even though the ruleset used wasn't vanilla Reach nor Halo 3. Ironically i actually liked the map there a lot more than in Halo 3 (even with BR starts i didn't like The Pit at all and still don't (and this is primary reason i won't bother buying that one Halo 4 DLC)).
Still, i prefer new maps, there is always a possibility of a new map being great, a proper classic, and in general it is more interesting to see new places than to fight in the same old areas again and again. This extends to campaigns, i didn't like Halo 3 final mission, they should've made something new...
User 73706
Banned
I agree with you for once. Give us a Chiron remake already, dammit.
Devolution
Member
A summary of my teammates today: the kind of people who rush to sniper only to waste 4 bullets on the same hologram.
So... CoD players?
YourExWife
Member
FUBAR was on and he didn't invite me?