Smh, did not expect serious reply.
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Halo 4 |OT2| TURBO
- Thread starter Tashi
- Start date
Smh, did not expect serious reply.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
I know, thats why you edited out the Vis ID thing, but that other guy has me on edge.
Right there is you asking that it wouldn't benefit Halo and how I responded it wouldn't. So yeah, you did ask why it wouldn't work in Halo.
Yeah, Prinz, it kinda is.
All I've done is state that I'm quite fond of something that you aren't. A freaking game mechanic. And I get mauled like a pigeon on a chip.
This isn't a research paper. It's a discussion board. Just because I express an opinion, contrary to what you might think, I really don't have to qualify it against your ideals or justify it with evidence in order to validate its merit. Do you understand that? I'm not saying that objectively ADS is best for Halo. I never had. All I've said is that I'm fond of it and I wouldn't have a problem if it was introduced. Clearly, you, on the other hand would. Do you see me demanding a fucking list of all the reasons why it needs to stay away from the series? No.Because I understand that it's something that's taken subjectively and people will have different views on it. Just because people have written a bunch of reasons why it should 'stay away', it's not going to change my stance on the subject. You understand that, right? It's a personal opinion, just like yours.
The amount of hostility I've received for voicing my thoughts is kinda unreal, dude. I don't think it's called for and I don't think it's reasonable. Oh, and insufferable? Seriously? You think me expressing a fondness for Halo 4 and the possibility of the addition of ADS is 'intolerable' and 'arrogant'? Jesus.
As I've said, I completely understand what a lot of you are saying. I know the formula has changed. I just happen to think that it's changed for the better. I don't have to justify that, or qualify it, or present a fucking platter of evidence. It's just my opinion. I can't explain to you why because it's not just a list of things Halo 4, for me, just feels more enjoyable than the others.
As far as ADS go, maybe it'll be good for the series, maybe it won't. But either way, I really don't care. I personally think it would be a better fit for 343i's new take on the franchise which is probably why everyone here thinks they're considering it. Whatever they go with, I'm sure I'll enjoy it. You can all be entitled gamers if you want and demand this and that but I'm more than happy to just enjoy the game the designers (who will have user tested this for a far wider audience than HaloGAF, by the way) intended it to be.
You're getting Halo 2 without ADS, most likely and a multiplayer that'll be true to form. I don't think Halo 2's multiplayer formula is suitable for Halo 5: Guardians or vice versa. Things do evolve and things do change not just for the sake of it. As much as I've loved playing 2 and 3 at the time, Halo 4 has taken the series somewhere that really resonates with me and my personal play style. If they want to evolve it further, I'm all for it. I'd rather try their approach and moan about it later rather than not trying it at all. And just because I think that, it doesn't make me right or wrong, because no formula's going to satisfy everyone.
OK? Cool. Rant over
Get off the soapbox. This is a discussion board. It means whatever you post, it will either be agreed with, or disagreed with, possibly challenged. Don't like it, don't post. This isn't a bulletin board where you drive-by post, say what you want and expect no one to voice an opinion back. And yes, we can call you out for it. Just because it's your opinion means what? You can't just say, I don't think gravity is real and then expect everyone to accept it at face value and say hey, it's that guys opinion. Whether it's objective, subjective is irrelevant. We can't stop you from posting, no more than you can stop us from responding. Oh you loved Halo 4? Cool. The majority of us didn't. Oh you don't mind ADS and would possibly want it, be okay with it in the next Halo? Cool, the majority of us aren't.
Whether or not they user test their game for a wider audience means what? We are a Halo fanbase and community here. Which means we can and do say what we want on where the series should go. We become entitled gamers because we want a series that is fun and works, to stay the way it is? You'd rather they try something and have it fail and then moan about it later? Cool, I'd rather they not try and reinvent the wheel. We've had that for two straight games and it's only alienated the fanbase to the point where decade long fans of the series have given away their games, sold their collections, stopped posting. Go check in any community, talk to any webmaster, community participation has plummeted. That Halo 4 game you love so much, barely maintains more than 15k people and is largely irrelevant. I'm one of those 15k, I see how there are fewer than 400 people playing in playlists at night.
So yeah, you can do whatever you want and post here, but realize that a discussion board is not a bulletin board, and discussion is never one-sided. I asked you numerous times to validate your reasons, I didn't ask for sources and citations. I asked why you believe that, any reasonable poster on a discussion forum does that much at least. If you want to bail, cool. That's your choice. But if you stay, you'll see that were all opinionated and passionate Halo fans. Not everyone agrees with each other, nor should they. Instead of thinking everyone is dog piling on you personally, maybe reevaluate what you said and whether it resonates with the larger fanbase.
Go post on Bungie.net, GameFaqs, HBO, Waypoint and other sites that have posters. Post about ADS and whether it'll work and see what they say. And then evaluate what you expect and think and what others think.
Edit: Just thinking about what you said, if that's the kind of poster you want to be, don't want to hear any rebuttal arguments, might as well put you on ignore now, and avoid reading what you say in the future. No point in having discussion with someone who doesn't want to.
lizardwizarding
Neo Member
It's actually more that various people took the time to write out simple defenses and explanations of the merit of why Halo hasn't needed it since it was released and you have simply ignored any chance for a discussion and never once responded directly to any of it. You simply state the same tired thing over and over again without paying any attention to the topic at hand.
If you're not stirring the pot, forgive me for believing "I just want to say something on the contrary and then dip out," as innocent.
Also no one to my knowledge called you any names or pointed out the fact that you apparently don't have a handle on what you're talking about.
I could look back a couple pages to pick some more out but that wasn't the point of the discussion and no one harped on you for that, either.
Perhaps that's why you've been this disproportionately defensive because your opinion has no basis (that you've been willing to cough up). It's a forum, and people are passionately asking you to explain your opinion on a controversial subject. "I wouldn't mind it, I prefer that style of gameplay and think Halo can benefit from it."- is not explaining your reasons why.
I don't think this is constructive at all at this point anymore and think we should all drop it, but I do believe you're blowing this way out. Sorry if you're truly taking such offense, but all I'm seeing is non-answers and it's kind of annoying/frustrating to see you pop in time after time (after the argument has died down) to nose-dive the topic back into it.
I for one am firmly against ADS in any Halo game be it 5 or 500. That said, can we legitametly come up with new additions we actually want in the next Halo game? I feel like all the community ever does is talk about what we don't want. And please don't say "Halo 3 with new graphics" because as much as I would buy that, the world has moved on from the utterly cruel MP that was Halo 3. Literally no game like it still exists. For better or worse every major shooter has gone the CoD 4 route. So what exactly can be added to Halo to keep it fresh and exciting while staying true to the series but not mimicking other popular shooters? Is there really anything? You have to remember these are the exact types of conversations people like Frank and the team have all the time I'm betting. And I would assume given the end result of 4 that they side with the easiest, safest route of copy and paste. As time goes on there are less and less Halo fans who were of a decent ago to play every title in the franchise when it was released. It's a hard pill to swallow but there are tons of Halo fans today who never played 2 or 3 online (maybe more played 3 recently since it went free) and that is 343's target audience now. I hate to say it but us veteran Halo players are a dying breed and our opinions on what makes Halo Halo are quickly becoming out dated.
So again, if you don't want ADS what do you want?
So again, if you don't want ADS what do you want?
YourExWife
Member
Welcome to NeoGAF
NeoGAF is a nexus of hardcore gamers, enthusiast press, and video game industry developers and publishers. This is a neutral ground where facts and evidence, presented within the confines of civil, inclusive discourse, prevail through careful moderation.
JESUS
Anyway, TheOddOne, how is everything? We never talk anymore.
EDIT:
Seriously, though, an opinion without reason/understanding is pointless. I'm a big fan of Halo and a big fan of metal music. I can explain my reasons for why I enjoy that musical style or even specific sub-genres. And if this were a discussion board for metal fans, how well do you think it would go for someone coming in and saying something like "since autotune/dubstep/rap/whatever has been used in some of the more successful pop music, then surely it belongs in metal"? Or "I'm not really a fan of Metallica's Black Album, but boy, that St. Anger is probably the best shit ever produced." Of course, to understand why these are bad, this requires a knowledge of what makes metal, metal, or in the second case, Metallica, Metallica. Strangely enough, the same is required for a useful opinion on Halo. The reactions to such absurdities are equally similar.
lizardwizarding
Neo Member
Moving away from the ADS discussion, I think you have a good point but I think it may be a bit presumptuous seeing as it's been a trend in these past 2 generations which are constantly changing, that make developers or fans feel that games (established franchises) need to reinvent themselves every iteration. I believe it has more to do with indecision and uncharted territory than a real issue, as many feel/would like to believe.
I still think that games are defined by their first release, and if you want to strike-out and do something different (mechanically speaking) then make a new game. Halo should be getting better maps, gametypes, communal features, etc. as the franchise ages (without rehashing my previous comments too much) and it should be improved upon -- you have a foundation of tried-and-true work to develop off of.
Why haven't we still received sound options?
How many Halo games do we get our best maps in DLC? And further, which of that DLC comes out way after the community needs them to stay afloat?
Why are we not getting a more balanced diet of new maps to old on the retail release?
Why do the playlists take ages to be reordered and balanced to be enjoyable when the last 6 months of the previous Halo had them down perfectly?
These are only a couple that come to mind. Suffice to say, people who think about reinvention consciously are desperate. Instead of 343 or Bungie or whomever realizing they may have reached their potential audience, they're instead greedily thinking they are entitled to an even larger sum of unaccounted for gamers. They pander to fans of those other games and slowly but surely, bastardize the original game we came to love.
I'm all for a completely new inspired take on other modes and campaign, because those are more amorphous experiences. I'd hope they do whatever is in their budget and wildest dreams to inspire Halo fans, honestly. But Multiplayer is like a sport, and you don't see sports changing their rules radically, season to season.
I can't really think of anything that can contribute to the natural evolution of Halo simply because like 343; you need to play their prototypes and see what the engine is capable of. Speaking poetically about what it's going to take to 'bring Halo back' is kind of a futile question to me. I know for a fact that I'd like to see more inclusion and improvement on the basis of things we had before, but whatever else is a pipe-dream and I'm tired. :3
Speaking on things I would welcome to Halo chief among them would be increased player count. I'd liek to see at least one game-type in a future Halo that had Battlefield level of players on map at the same time. Imagine Halo (good Halo too) with 64 players. That would be awesome. I'd like to see vehicle only modes like Tank Deathmatch or something. I would love to see Firefight come back with an enhanced editor that allowed us to create our own maps for it or at least modify existing ones.
I'm against higher player counts for almost the same reason I am against ADS. It wouldn't work well for Halo. 8v8 is even pushing it at times. The very nature of Halo game play goes against large player counts.
Each individual player becomes inconsequential. All that will end up happening is that you'll literally have several small matches of Halo happening within a match. You could have 6v6 happening in one building, 2v2 on a Ridge, 12v12 happening on some other corner of the map.
For example, just imagine spawning in an area where there are 16 members of the other team. If it takes 4 headshots to kill you, and the other team only each fires one bullet, what chance in hell do you even have of killing one person before you're dead? What about vehicles? How would you even pilot a banshee if 24 guys teamshot you out of the sky as soon as you fly up. Maybe begrudgingly I can accept 12v12 as a new playlist. Some of the maps in Halo 4 were large enough that you could have added a few more people, but already BTB is overflowing with a lot of people who have a tough time ever adapting to less number of players. They stay because it's easier to goof off or find people to kill.
32v32 would just be ridiculously bad. Just imagine if a lot of them stick together, it would be near impossible for anyone to get by, or traverse the map.
Edit: I've always felt that gametypes, weapons, and maps were what kept Halo fresh or added enjoyment. Even experimental levels like extreme verticality in Spire, or zero gravity in other levels. Weapons obviously. Some hate newer weapons, while others love them. Look at how something like a Spartan Laser changes vehicular combat, or a weapon like a grenade launcher. For gametypes, look at something like ricochet. They hit a home run with that gametype, it can be fun and challenging especially with a good team. New modes like firefight, maybe an evolution to Dominion to where it resembled the new horde mode of Gears of War 3, ie. Upgradeable defenses, repairs, etc. You don't need to change the core game play of Halo to make it feel fresh or fun.
Each individual player becomes inconsequential. All that will end up happening is that you'll literally have several small matches of Halo happening within a match. You could have 6v6 happening in one building, 2v2 on a Ridge, 12v12 happening on some other corner of the map.
For example, just imagine spawning in an area where there are 16 members of the other team. If it takes 4 headshots to kill you, and the other team only each fires one bullet, what chance in hell do you even have of killing one person before you're dead? What about vehicles? How would you even pilot a banshee if 24 guys teamshot you out of the sky as soon as you fly up. Maybe begrudgingly I can accept 12v12 as a new playlist. Some of the maps in Halo 4 were large enough that you could have added a few more people, but already BTB is overflowing with a lot of people who have a tough time ever adapting to less number of players. They stay because it's easier to goof off or find people to kill.
32v32 would just be ridiculously bad. Just imagine if a lot of them stick together, it would be near impossible for anyone to get by, or traverse the map.
Edit: I've always felt that gametypes, weapons, and maps were what kept Halo fresh or added enjoyment. Even experimental levels like extreme verticality in Spire, or zero gravity in other levels. Weapons obviously. Some hate newer weapons, while others love them. Look at how something like a Spartan Laser changes vehicular combat, or a weapon like a grenade launcher. For gametypes, look at something like ricochet. They hit a home run with that gametype, it can be fun and challenging especially with a good team. New modes like firefight, maybe an evolution to Dominion to where it resembled the new horde mode of Gears of War 3, ie. Upgradeable defenses, repairs, etc. You don't need to change the core game play of Halo to make it feel fresh or fun.
And you don't think that is freaking awesome? I don't know, for the last 2 or 3 years now I have been pretty much a Battlefield player more than anything and when I go play games like Titanfall and it's laughable 6v6 setup I just can't help but feel like big block buster shooters like Halo would benefit from at least ONE mode where you could have that epic war going on. Make the map HUGE. Throw in an obscene amount of vehicles. Yeah you'd be fucked if 32 players teamed up on you but it's the same story in Battlefield and that game makes it work.
Dinner?
lizardwizarding
Neo Member
I dig the hell out of Battlefield but Halo isn't anything like that. Playing something like BTB Meltdown is total shit. The kill times in Halo give you the illusion of a longer battle (like in a 4v4 setting) and then you just get 4 shotted from 4 different people on a larger map and get ded-ed. I don't think it's very fun.
Though who knows, without kids camo-crouching across the map with damage boost, etc things might be quite different, just speaking to H4. I enjoyed BTB in H4 to some degree, if I would completely tune out and just mess around but even still I'd get frustrated at times for the reason above.
Except in this case, it is subjective and entirely relevant. There is no right or wrong answer and it's impossible to prove anyone right or wrong.
So you think the Halo fan base is just this thread, do you? How wrong you are. Ever thought to consider that maybe some people actually like Halo 4?! And who's 'we'? Do you mean 'you'? Why should your voice be heard above mine, exactly?
As I've said, why should I validate my opinion on something? Should I validate my opinion on why I think oranges taste better than apples? Do you want me to write a list of reasons out why for you or are you just happy to accept, that maybe, it's just because I like it?
Those locations make up a tiny fraction of the Halo community. Seriously. What about the wider community? Should 343i just ignore them?
I'm all for a debate, absolutely. It's just this isn't something to be debated. I didn't say 'ADS should be in Halo because of x y and z'. I said I 'quite like ADS' and 'wouldn't mind if it was added'. I wasn't asking for a debate, I didn't want one. I was merely expressing my tastes. I know people hate ADS and I know people who love ADS. You need to understand that different people like different things and are not obliged to justify it to you.
No, I understand the defence entirely and I don't disagree. But for somebody to think that I'm just going to change my tastes because 'HaloGAF says so' is just unbelievable.
The hostility in this thread to my comment was unreal. A couple of people actually pointed it out.
Why do I need reasons? All I've said is I enjoy ADS. Do you enjoy Coca-Cola? WHY NOT?! LIST YOUR REASONS OR GET OUT. Insane.
No, it really isn't – and I hope it does get dropped. I'm kinda struck that people have taken my comment to heart, to be honest. Just because I like something that a lot of other people do not, I'm the epitome of all evil and my tastes and interests must be shat on by everyone because they don't conform with the Halo community, and as Madness only HaloGAF can have a say in "where the series should go". Height of arrogance. Unbelievable.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
What are the kill times for Battlefield compared to Halo? i've never thought to ask
Which one? In BF3, we're speaking nearly COD fast, just a tad slower i think. Ignoring one-shot kill weapons of course.
I don't think anyone can top Halo kill times especially Reach's. BF kill times are above CoD's but then again you can get one shotted to the big toe in CoD and die sooooo
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
BF4 specifically since its what Halo 5 will be competing against.
I would assume there will be a new BF (or SW Battlefront) by the time Halo 5 comes out, so it won't be competing against BF4 really.
Anyway, from what i know, BF4 is like BF3 when it comes to kill times. For some reason i think someone claimed it was actually faster but not sure if true.
In any case, BF series is a really different beast from Halos. As are most games.
To be fair against iMax, Madness can come off as a bit bullish and arrogant. I dont think he intends to be that way, but sometimes his wording can come off that way (Hope you are not too offended about this, Madness). Word of advice though iMax (and anybody who wants to join our merry old band): dont start your introduction to the community by embracing the mentality of me against them. You only alienate yourself.
Anyway, space Jebus.
Anyway, space Jebus.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
I wonder if EA will announce both new info on a Battlefield and new Info about Battlefront at E3 this year.
LastChance2Frag
Neo Member
If Battlefront is likely to be shown this E3 as it was announced last E3 is it possible that it would come out this holiday? As Halo 5, Battlefield 4, Black Ops 3? are 2015. Would be crazy if H2A and Battlefront came around the same time.
Halo 3 account which was then hacked never to be seen again...
Halo reach:
Kills58,493
Deaths39,553
Assists10,232
Kill/Death1.48
Kills/Game14.88
and Halo 4 stats:
K/D: 1.33
K+A/D: 1.81
Win %: 66.0
Spread: 5237
Kills: 21331
Assists: 7778
Deaths: 16094
Games: 1592
I don't know what happened I just became an assist king.
This one quote is all about personnal taste.
ADS is about gameplay mechanic which could or not work in Halo. It's about logic and design.
So yes, when you said you like ADS and it could fit in Halo, you have to explain why, in your opinion, it would fit in Halo and balance the gameplay in a good way to give a good legacy of the last games.
It's like you would say "I love horses and I think driving a horse in Halo with my sword would be good in and for the game". It could be a good idea, which is just an opinion, but you should have to explain why.
Or in that case, you just come here to write some posts about your taste without the need of discussions about that.
And if that's the case, well, you come in the wrong place I guess.
That stats lookup is pretty neat
http://halocharts.com/2013/career.php?gts=FyreWulff
Unfortunately I deleted my original Halo 2's tag history when I reclaimed it
http://halocharts.com/2013/career.php?gts=FyreWulff
Unfortunately I deleted my original Halo 2's tag history when I reclaimed it
Deputy Moonman
Member
One thing I'm definitely okay with carrying over into halo 5 from halo 4 is the plethora of visor colors. I'm so vain. You probably think this song is about me.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I can't agree about player count not getting a cloud or large multiplayer mode. Mix in AI and Halo multiplayer battles with expanded vehicles would be insanely fun to play with a large party or 3. Most loved 3's two scarabs battle.
I'm always for modes with arena but I get frustrated when new modes are shot down to open up to new things. Halo 2 clans are mentioned a lot so imagine a ranked BTB style mix. Yes please.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
This.
Can't everyone just get along. E3 is just around the corner. Everyone needs to realize that they have there own opinion and people will make a remark about it. That's what makes NeoGAF awesome because there is will be always someone that will disagree or agree to something.
I don't believe ADS should be in Halo. It did not start with it and it should end with out it. That's one of the main reason why I love Halo because there is no ADS.
User 73706
Banned
kitten is that u
lizardwizarding
Neo Member
I'd like to give it a try, I think we just don't want it to mean a compromise to the focus of the bread n' butter (or burnt toast and margarine :cough: Halo 4). If they made it it's own game I would want them to do exactly as you said. An instanced multiplayer FPS could be kind of neat if the scale was right.
Replied in bold. Either way, this will be my last reply to you. Cheers.
User 73706
Banned
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
too much homestuck.
Is that the new grunt design
User 73706
Banned
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Exactly. I would rather wait until AFTER the new Halo OT is to nuke this thread.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
if people could take criticism we wouldn't be in any sort of predicament.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
If ADS discussion makes this place unsafe, imagine ADS implementation..
EDIT:
You had a "rough start" here, but you've seriously grown to be one of my favorite posters to interact with or read posts from in these threads.
EDIT:
You had a "rough start" here, but you've seriously grown to be one of my favorite posters to interact with or read posts from in these threads.
You've been on my ignore list since (07-24-2013, 02:17 PM) which was when I sent that PM I know you read. Believe me, the feeling is now mutual, the key difference being I was only always polite to you, whereas you've called me out before, in this very thread even (page 86 I believe), and you even threatened to leave HGS if I joined. So cheers OddOne. Also, if you remember in my PM, I told you that if you hated me, my posts so much, you should put me on ignore. I suggest you might as well do it now, if you haven't already done so.
As for others. I joined GAF for HaloGAF. Almost 90% of my posts tend to be in the Halo threads. It's never easy joining a community of gamers who've played together or known each other for years. Hell I've barely been here a year and a half. Sometimes you do have to walk on eggshells. I've racked up a shitload of posts (pre-ban), most of which are here. I've had numerous wall-o-text posts, posts that are passionate but not always worded the best, or some posts that are just stupid. The one thing I've never done is ever really personally insult someone here. Sure I'll criticize or call out something I don't like, but I don't insult anyone. Since I've joined, I've only ignored two posters, both members of HaloGAF. I'd honestly prefer if anyone who hates me, hates my posts, thinks I post like a shithead, to please put me on ignore. This way I don't annoy, upset or offend you.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
Would anyone be interested in a trade for a $15 Xbox giftcard for a One (or more if you're really nice) month? I miss playing Halo with you guys.
PM me for details
PM me for details
I love how you just picked that specific part and just disregarded the rest of the post. I think that is your biggest problem, you go into defense mode faster than anybody I know―even in the cases in which it is not needed. Look at your interaction with iMax, you completely blew it out of proportion and went on to insult him. No wonder iMax came out swinging with that reply. You pretty much acted like iMax reply the first time you entered HaloHAF, you acted as if it was you alone against HaloGAF. The thing was that it was all in your head and that made you paranoid as hell. You also fail to grasp a joke or two, seeing as you still hold a grudge about that HGS joke. All it was, was a jokeget it? Like, Kittens likes #butts, Elzar is a whore and Wahrer makes fart trumpet music. I dont see them getting overly defensive, heck they are friendly running jokes.
Seriously, stop acting like you are a victim in all of this. The faster you get off that stance, the faster you will finally understand to let go.
Don't have a month but when I get home I'll see if I've got 48hr codes still lying around.
aHebrewMenagerie
Member
post in this thread, basically lol
As long as you don't post a ridiculous amount or have any outrageous opinions (i'm fine with outrageous opinions btw), you will be welcome here!
But you guys are scary.