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[Thug Waffle]

No mas Halo Council? I don't think I can handle registering for yet another forum where Chief I'mamod (you know who you is) thinks he's better than errbody.

Why are they remaking Pit but not Middy?

 

[Fotos]

I would have rather had Zanzibar 3.0 than the Pit 2.0 but the Pit is still good.

Side note: When the hell will Waterworks get a remake!?!?!

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

AR starts.


In 2013.



AR fucking starts.

 

[Ghazi]

I waited months to hear about a gametype I basically could've made myself on day 1.


lol





loooooooool


looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

 

[xxjuicesxx]

AR starts.


In 2013.



AR fucking starts.

Bravo will save Halo they said. Quinn will save Halo they said.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Bravo will save Halo they said. Quinn will save Halo they said.

I mean, maybe we should give them some slack.

SMG starts in Halo 2 were great.

AR starts in Halo 3 were great.

AR starts in Halo: Reach were great.

Spoiler

Great is code for shit

 

[DeadByDawn]

I would have rather had Zanzibar 3.0 than the Pit 2.0 but the Pit is still good.

Side note: When the hell will Waterworks get a remake!?!?!

Is Waterworks popular enough to warrant a remake? I like the map, it was a lot of fun, but I don't think it's got the popularity to justify a remake. Containment is another great map that I think probably has the same problem, not enough recognition to justify bringing it back either, even though it would be great.

 

[kittens]

I mean, maybe we should give them some slack.

SMG starts in Halo 2 were great.

AR starts in Halo 3 were great.

AR starts in Halo: Reach were great.

Spoiler

Great is code for shit

Riiiight? This is a problem almost as old as Halo, and 343 thought it'd be a cool idea to bring it back.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Riiiight? This is a problem almost as old as Halo, and 343 thought it'd be a cool idea to bring it back.

This is what I don't get. The endless AR/SMG Vs BR start debates have been going on for almost a decade in Halo.

I've no faith left in 343 at this stage.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Riiiight? This is a problem almost as old as Halo, and 343 thought it'd be a cool idea to bring it back.

This problem not existing is one the few things H4 did that I think is an unquestionable improvement over its predecessors. It's back now though!

 

[xxjuicesxx]

This problem not existing is one the few things H4 did that I think is an unquestionable improvement over its predecessors. It's back now though!

Well it only ended becasue create a loadout which created way more problems and even bigger arguments to discuss.

They needed to just give us both AR/BR to end the debate and not cause a bigger problem, instead we got, PP, boltshot, perks, powerups.

 

[Thug Waffle]

Carbine seems pretty solid on some maps in throwdown. Is it just me?

 

[Steelyuhas]

Well it only ended becasue create a loadout which created way more problems and even bigger arguments to discuss.

They needed to just give us both AR/BR to end the debate and not cause a bigger problem, instead we got, PP, boltshot, perks, powerups.

Nothing dictating that loadouts had to include all that garbage they included. I see no reason that players should't have been able to pick between AR, BR, Carbine, Magnum, Storm/Plasma Rifle.

Not being able to start with a weapon that fit the exact same role as the weapon you start with (example being Carbine when starting with a BR) never made much sense, and made the other weapon (Carbine) underused and kind of pointless in the sandbox.

 

[Booties]

FUUUUUUCK. Multi team is ridiculous.

Seriously, fix multi team. How did they think 6 teams of 2 would work on haven with instant respawn? Then a game type on ragnarok? uuuuugh.

 

[Steelyuhas]

FUUUUUUCK. Multi team is ridiculous.

6 teams is an absurd setup.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Here is an initial starting weapon by playlist. Let me know what I have wrong and I'll update.

New Playlist - Legendary Slayer: fixed loadouts, AR

BTB Infinity Slayer: custom loadouts, any start weapon
Infinity Slayer: Custom loadouts, any start weapon
SWAT: fixed loadouts, BR/DMR/pistol with Carbine for CovieSWAT
BTB Skirmish: custom & fixed loadouts based on variants, essentially any precision starting weapon
CTF: custom & fixed loadouts, any starting weapon for custom and AR/BR/DMR for fixed
Flood: fixed loadouts, pistol/AR
Action Sack: various
Grifball: fixed loadouts, sword/hammer
Snipers: fixed loadouts, sniper with sniper/pistol for some variants
Doubles: custom & fixed loadouts, any starting weapon for custom with precision starts for fixed
Rumble Pit: custom loadouts, any start weapon
Regicide: custom loadouts, any start weapon
Multi-Team: custom loadouts, any start weapon
Dominion: custom loadouts, any start weapon
Throwdown: fixed loadouts, BR/DMR/LR/Carbine
Majestic DLC: custom loadouts, any start weapon

Given this list I can see why trialling AR starts for legendary is a solid development choice initially. It's not set in stone for all of eternity so why not offer up something a little different from Infinity or Throwdown as custom vs. precision is covered by those playlists already. So Legendary starts off with AR starts initially, relax it's not like they can't change the playlist settings many times in the future.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Here is an initial starting weapon by playlist. Let me know what I have wrong and I'll update.

New Playlist - Legendary Slayer: fixed loadouts, AR

BTB Infinity Slayer:[/b] custom loadouts, any start weapon
Infinity Slayer:[/b] Custom loadouts, any start weapon
SWAT:[/b] fixed loadouts, BR/DMR/pistol with Carbine for CovieSWAT
BTB Skirmish:[/b] custom & fixed loadouts based on variants, essentially any precision starting weapon
CTF:[/b] custom & fixed loadouts, any starting weapon for custom and AR/BR/DMR for fixed
Flood:[/b] fixed loadouts, pistol/AR
Action Sack:[/b] various
Grifball:[/b] fixed loadouts, sword/hammer
Snipers:[/b] fixed loadouts, sniper with sniper/pistol for some variants
Doubles:[/b] custom & fixed loadouts, any starting weapon for custom with precision starts for fixed
Rumble Pit:[/b] custom loadouts, any start weapon
Regicide:[/b] custom loadouts, any start weapon
Multi-Team:[/b] custom loadouts, any start weapon
Dominion:[/b] custom loadouts, any start weapon
Throwdown:[/b] fixed loadouts, BR/DMR/LR/Carbine
Majestic DLC:[/b] custom loadouts, any start weapon

Given this list I can see why trialling AR starts for legendary is a solid development choice initially. It's not set in stone for all of eternity so why not offer up something a little different from Infinity or Throwdown as custom vs. precision is covered by those playlists already. So Legendary starts off with AR starts initially, relax it's not like they can't change the playlist settings many times in the future.

Alright. Ozzy cmon son. This endless 343 D slurping is fucking ridiculous.

I can tolerate your posts generally and you make some good points now and then.

Calling AR starts a "solid development choice" is dumb. We have 10 year of experience with AR/SMG starts and they were always terrible.

But your a waypoint mod now so 343 could announce killstreaks, aiming down sights, prestiging and every other CoD feature under the sun and you'd be on board.

 

[Booshka]

No mas Halo Council? I don't think I can handle registering for yet another forum where Chief I'mamod (you know who you is) thinks he's better than errbody.

Why are they remaking Pit but not Middy?

Not enough open space for you to sprint around like an idiot on Midship.

EDIT, with that in mind Ghazi, imagine being able to jetpack from Pink 1 to Pink 3 on a Midship remake, heh.

 

[Ghazi]

So I just realized that the presence of Jetpack alone completely breaks the importance of the two turret towers and grav lift on Pitfall.


RIP in pieces Pitfall.

 

[DeadNames]

Halo 4 would be better without jetpack.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Alright. Ozzy cmon son. This endless 343 D slurping is fucking ridiculous.

I can tolerate your posts generally and you make some good points now and then.

Calling AR starts a "solid development choice" is dumb. We have 10 year of experience with AR/SMG starts and they were always terrible.

But your a waypoint mod now so 343 could announce killstreaks, aiming down sights, prestiging and every other CoD feature under the sun and you'd be on board.

Actually I personally dislike AR starts. I've played through maps with AR starts such as Relic 1 flag (Halo 2) or Zanzibar 1 bomb (Halo 2) or Avalanche BTB slayer (Halo 3) or Valhalla (Halo 3) and I always shake my head at spawn killing. I don't enjoy that style of play. I also remember The Pit slayer/objective (Halo 3) when you used to have to always swap out your starting weapon for a BR from one of two initial spawns. I also remember how frustrating that is to have to go to a map and pick that up or spawn in the middle of the game and have to wait for a BR to spawn.

I also understand not every Halo player wants to play BR or precision start all the time. Once again if you look at my post without bias it is actually a fairly clear development choice. It's one Bungie and 343i have made repeatedly to cater for differing types of gamers or playlist settings. To think I blindly welcome anything Bungie or 343i put out is ignorant at best. Take those comments somewhere else mate. I loath KOTH being added to objective ranked back in Halo 3. I loath the CTF waypoint in Halo 4. I miss assault. What I don't do is pretend that my way of playing the game should stand for all playlists or all starting weapons.

I'm also a more patient person and open to try different things as well. When I see Throwdown literally taken from the pros and LAN tournaments and Infinity for the COD-style custom loadouts I can see a clear development choice as to why AR starts is a viable choice to make (initially anyhow). There is a reason Bungie repeatedly did this. There is a reason 343i chose to do this again now in Halo 4. The only thing that is certain in playlists and settings is change. Most likely this playlist will see a starting weapon change once again. Funny thing is you ask for Halo 2 and 3 settings to return and literally this AR starts is directly from Halo 2/3 by Bungie over and over.

Don't attack me just because I volunteer some time to moderate Waypoint as my thanks to a game franchise I've loved AND hated for 10+ years. Oh and by the way if any Halo ever has ADS and not the scope in that Halo traditionally has that is a deal breaker for me, I fucking HATE ADS.

 

[Ken]

Halo would be better without jetpack.

.

I also understand not every Halo player wants to play BR or precision start all the time.

Since Legendary Slayer doesn't seem to be designed for competitive play, I guess that's okay.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

Actually I personally dislike AR starts. I've played through maps with AR starts such as Relic 1 flag (Halo 2) or Zanzibar 1 bomb (Halo 2) or Avalanche BTB slayer (Halo 3) or Valhalla (Halo 3) and I always shake my head at spawn killing. I don't enjoy that style of play. I also remember The Pit slayer/objective (Halo 3) when you used to have to always swap out your starting weapon for a BR from one of two initial spawns. I also remember how frustrating that is to have to go to a map and pick that up or spawn in the middle of the game and have to wait for a BR to spawn.

I also understand not every Halo player wants to play BR or precision start all the time. Once again if you look at my post without bias it is actually a fairly clear development choice. It's one Bungie and 343i have made repeatedly to cater for differing types of gamers or playlist settings. To think I blindly welcome anything Bungie or 343i put out is ignorant at best. Take those comments somewhere else mate. I loath KOTH being added to objective ranked back in Halo 3. I loath the CTF waypoint in Halo 4. I miss assault. What I don't do it pretend that my way of playing the game should stand for all playlists or all starting weapons.

I'm also a more patient person and open to try different things as well. When I see Throwdown literally taken from the pros and LAN tournaments and Infinity for the COD-style custom loadouts I can see a clear development choice as to why AR starts is a viable choice to make (initially anyhow). There is a reason Bungie repeatedly did this. There is a reason 343i chose to do this again now in Halo 4. The only thing that is certain in playlists and settings is change. Most likely this playlist will see a starting weapon change once again. Funny thing is you ask for Halo 2 and 3 settings to return and literally this AR starts is directly from Halo 2/3 by Bungie over and over.

Don't attack me just because I volunteer some time to moderate Waypoint as my thanks to a game franchise I've loved AND hated for 10+ years. Oh and by the way if any Halo ever has ADS and not the scope in that Halo traditionally has that is a deal breaking for me, I fucking HATE ADS.

Exactly and what did Bungie end up implementing everytime? BR starts.

I do agree that not every player wants precision starts, and thats true. But Infinity Slayer and the majority of playlists are already geared towards these types of players. They can start with automatics all they want.

Meanwhile the population is a disgrace. And only recently have 343 implemented changes for the core players who have kept Halo alive all these years. 343 tease a playlist thats said to be half way between the Infinity and Throwdown settings, and that halfway mark includes AR starts?

AR fucking starts? You've clearly played all the games online and you've said you remember how horrible it was. Why defend them now? Its crystal clear 343 have no idea how to make a Halo game. They take 1 step forward and 3 steps back.

AR starts were always included yes, bit they were geared towards the casual players. Infinity Slayer is the casual playlist.

Why bring the old casual playlist setup back? Aren't there enough playlists for the casual non hardcore or whatever the fuck you want call the bad kids that play Halo?

343 fucked up once again. But don't despair!! Were getting 2 new maps soon. For a game with no population and no way of even playing the fucking maps in matchmaking.

You know your on some shit defending this. You know it.

 

[heckfu]

Guys I wanna be liked by everyone so I'm not going to have my own opinion.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Exactly and what did Bungie end up implementing everytime? BR starts.

I do agree that not every player wants precision starts, and thats true. But Infinity Slayer and the majority of playlists are already geared towards these types of players. They can start with automatics all they want.

Meanwhile the population is a disgrace. And only recently have 343 implemented changes for the core players who have kept Halo alive all these years. 343 tease a playlist thats said to be half way between the Infinity and Throwdown settings, and that halfway mark includes AR starts?

AR fucking starts? You've clearly played all the games online and you've said you remember how horrible it was. Why defend them now? Its crystal clear 343 have no idea how to make a Halo game. They take 1 step forward and 3 steps back.

AR starts were always included yes, bit they were geared towards the casual players. Infinity Slayer is the casual playlist.

Why bring the old casual playlist setup back? Aren't there enough playlists for the casual non hardcore or whatever the fuck you want call the bad kids that play Halo?

343 fucked up once again. But don't despair!! Were getting 2 new maps soon. For a game with no population and no way of even playing the fucking maps in matchmaking.

You know your on some shit defending this. You know it.

Why am I considered defending this? Does it have to be black and white like that? No it does not.

I'm not raging about this like others are as I can see reasonable developer choices to attract players or provide variety. I also stated it will most likely be altered to precision starts in future iterations of this playlist too.

When I consider this playlist over say 6 months from now:

1. If it was just precision starts then what separates it from Throwdown or BTB Pro for example?

2. If this playlist is always precision then other starting weapons were never given a chance were they?

3. Now if AR starts is the initial setting but is unpopular then it will change. So what's wrong with 1 month of AR starts and 5 months or the rest of life as precision start?

4. If you narrow playlists and settings to one competitive or casual setting you risk alienating newer or differing styles of players.

5. It would be nicer to have some voting variants in the Legendary playlist too. No one here posts with any room for this allowance, now someone with a level head has.

That's my logic anyhow and it has nothing to do with my feelings about Halo 4 or its developer per se.

Guys I wanna be liked by everyone so I'm not going to have my own opinion.

Off base Doc.

 

[Booshka]

4v4 BRs should not be considered Hardcore, it's just Halo done properly.

4v4 ARs being considered the mass appeal Casual option is just laughable, if people are too scared of 4v4 BRs, they should just go back to SWAT, Zombies, or CoD.

 

[orznge]

3. Now if AR starts is the initial setting but is unpopular then it will change. So what's wrong with 1 month of AR starts and 5 months or the rest of life as precision start?

well for one it assumes that none of the developers working on the game have observed the past three Halo titles or any user feedback about them or the eventual direction of gametypes within all three aforementioned titles

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Is Waterworks popular enough to warrant a remake? I like the map, it was a lot of fun, but I don't think it's got the popularity to justify a remake. Containment is another great map that I think probably has the same problem, not enough recognition to justify bringing it back either, even though it would be great.

Halo 2 maps are like Batman's villains in the superhero universe: Everybody can name them.

Nothing dictating that loadouts had to include all that garbage they included. I see no reason that players should't have been able to pick between AR, BR, Carbine, Magnum, Storm/Plasma Rifle.

Not being able to start with a weapon that fit the exact same role as the weapon you start with (example being Carbine when starting with a BR) never made much sense, and made the other weapon (Carbine) underused and kind of pointless in the sandbox.

CaptainFalconYes

Exactly and what did Bungie end up implementing everytime? BR starts.

I do agree that not every player wants precision starts, and thats true. But Infinity Slayer and the majority of playlists are already geared towards these types of players. They can start with automatics all they want.

Meanwhile the population is a disgrace. And only recently have 343 implemented changes for the core players who have kept Halo alive all these years. 343 tease a playlist thats said to be half way between the Infinity and Throwdown settings, and that halfway mark includes AR starts?

AR fucking starts? You've clearly played all the games online and you've said you remember how horrible it was. Why defend them now? Its crystal clear 343 have no idea how to make a Halo game. They take 1 step forward and 3 steps back.

AR starts were always included yes, bit they were geared towards the casual players. Infinity Slayer is the casual playlist.

Why bring the old casual playlist setup back? Aren't there enough playlists for the casual non hardcore or whatever the fuck you want call the bad kids that play Halo?

343 fucked up once again. But don't despair!! Were getting 2 new maps soon. For a game with no population and no way of even playing the fucking maps in matchmaking.

You know your on some shit defending this. You know it.

Wow lol.. You really put it into perspective just how much we got screwed with that Legendary playlist huh. I completely forgot about ALL DAT HYPE surrounding it, which reminds me of the massive hype before Halo 4 launched and having some sliver of hope for that "classic" Halo feel.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Why am I considered defending this? Does it have to be black and white like that? No it does not.

I'm not raging about this like others are as I can see reasonable developer choices to attract players or provide variety. I also stated it will most likely be altered to precision starts in future iterations of this playlist too.

When I consider this playlist over say 6 months from now:

1. If it was just precision starts then what separates it from Throwdown or BTB Pro for example?

Legendary has radar, making it viable for a lot more people than Pro settings (I understand BTB pro has radar). No ordnance, either, meaning no AAs. Rifles and regular weapons on the map, not just power weapons. But the answer to this question should be that Legendary has no sprint enabled, but for some reason (UI?) this will never happen no matter how much people beg for it. The answer should also include Objective variants, but those game types will always be treated secondary and be forgotten, which is partly why the pop is always so damn low, imo.

2. If this playlist is always precision then other starting weapons were never given a chance were they?

True, but this has always lead to making BRs (or DMRs) default or a 50/50 split variant in each game. Simple solution is either a pistol or BR secondary, with AR starts. Not having either may alienate more people than its worth.

3. Now if AR starts is the initial setting but is unpopular then it will change. So what's wrong with 1 month of AR starts and 5 months or the rest of life as precision start?

Without any voting options for BR starts, how can there be any data on this. Not even mentioning the 10 year history of data since Halo 2. Or the CE magnum. The people who are upset about AR starts don't want to have to wait even longer to just play regular old Halo sans bs, and AR starts are bs. It took 110 days from tease to announce the settings.

4. If you narrow playlists and settings to one competitive or casual setting you risk alienating newer or differing styles of players.

So then use the damn loadout system to allow for the playlist to cater to real classic, basic settings like they intended. AR + pistol or BR and no sprint. No sprint. No sprint. I'm personally in the AR + pistol camp. Starting with a precision weapon isn't just about competitive vs casual, its about sane and fair starting spawns. This is such an old debate with such an easy solution discovered time and time again its just so ass backwards to me, and I hate no radar competitive playlists. Why do they have to relearn this every time is beyond me. Where is the 343 that made NBNS (and then half implemented it)...

5. It would be nicer to have some voting variants in the Legendary playlist too. No one here posts with any room for this allowance, now someone with a level head has.

Agreed. If there must be AR starts, add a Legendary BRs/rifles option, and at least give a pistol secondary.

That's my logic anyhow and it has nothing to do with my feelings about Halo 4 or its developer per se.



Off base Doc.

Replies in line.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Replies in line.

Nice replies mate and it really shows good discussion can be had.

Funny thing is after all this time hearing about Legendary and the current vote variants in other playlists why they didn't have 2 or 3 variants is beyond me. No one would be pissed is they had two variants with legendary, perhaps that info is yet to come or they'll do this in the next revision?

I still think the BF3 player toggles are superior to the developer playlists management. Just create playlists for player sizes and type of setting then allow players to toggle filters for maps, DLC, skill matching, local search, ranked or social.

BAM you have hoppers and can split classic, hardcore, objective, Grifball etc and then there is the voting rounds within player toggles that match based on choices/maps.

It seems far less developer sustain work, improved gamer satisfaction through choice and still benefits from the existing trueskill and matchmaking systems overall. It is even portable from P2P to dedicated servers.

Frankie/343i please seriously look at this matchmaking redevelopment.

 

[Gui_PT]

Nothing against the guy but did Bravo play Halo before moving into 343?

I remember him commentating on a match and not even knowing was a Ghost was called.

 

[Madness]

Nothing against the guy but did Bravo play Halo before moving into 343?

I remember him commentating on a match and not even knowing was a Ghost was called.

Of course man... He is well known on the pro circuit, plus he coached Triggers Down and even Final Boss at one point.

If there's one guy who should get Halo it's him.

Here's what he said before Halo 4 released about what he'd like to see:

Symmetrical arena-style maps out of the box (at launch)

No armor abilities, perks, additions, boosters, etc. I am okay with new power-ups, but things like sprint, evade, and jet-packs just ruin the game because they break the rules of the maps that 343 will work VERY hard to create. Even with jet-packs in mind (i.e. sword base) armor abilities really screw with the pace and consistency of a map and / or game-type.

Also, a perk/reward system for killing sprees would be awful – all we need to hear is the friendly “running riot” voice and that is reward enough.

Don’t mess with the “triple kill / overkill / killtac / etc” anymore. Why on earth did Bungie ever change the order of these anyway?

Clans, because they were awesome.

1-50 ranking system. 1-50 was Halo, and I remember checking the progress of my “48″ back in the day and seeing how close I was to my next level – it gives you a reason to play . How MUCH you play should not be rewarding, however, I can see how this is appealing from a sales standpoint. Also, I think it should take a lot of wins (and skill) to become a level 50 – before the first level reset in Halo 2, some of the best players were around level 30 – I remember having a 19 or a 20, which was pretty difficult to get. What I’m saying is that ranks should rule the game and separate the great players from the rest.

Spectator mode. As a commentator, this would truly make a world of a difference for competitive Halo – it could make Halo 4 a mainstay as a top competitive title and overall great viewer experience. Not necessary, but would be awesome.

Continued support from 343 – maybe hire someone as head of competitive balance / eSports at the company? I’m not sure if they already have people working on it, but it would be a great help to our community and could also help maintain a consistent relationship between 343 and the competitive gaming world.

And then there’s sprint. I hate sprint and I hope that there were no armor abilities or perks in the game. I would like to play Halo: shoot, grenade, melee, that’s it.

This is the guy they've hired and what he wanted out of Halo 4 before it launched.

 

[MrGreencastle]

Nice replies mate and it really shows good discussion can be had.

I still think the BF3 player toggles are superior to the developer playlists management. Just create playlists for player sizes and type of setting then allow players to toggle filters for maps, DLC, skill matching, local search, ranked or social.

BAM you have hoppers and can split classic, hardcore, objective, Grifball etc and then there is the voting rounds within player toggles that match based on choices/maps.

It seems far less developer sustain work, improved gamer satisfaction through choice and still benefits from the existing trueskill and matchmaking systems overall. It is even portable from P2P to dedicated servers.

Frankie/343i please seriously look at this matchmaking redevelopment.

Abso-friggen-lutely. This would improve matchmaking drastically. I seriously hope they go this direction in the future, after seeing games like Destiny and the Division, matchmaking hoppers seem so ancient and limited now, and while I don't think open-world matchmaking makes sense for a mainline Halo game, a toggle system like yours, or the one used in PC Battlefield is absolutely an improvement over how it works now.

I just want to say that I don't hate the Assault Rifle. I think it's a good weapon, and the Halo 4 variant is better than all previous since CE (even better since TURBO) and it most definitely has it's place in Halo. I've been using it as my secondary in Halo 4 in one of my main loadouts since launch (BR/DMR/LR depending on my mood + AR + frag + hologram + dexterity + firepower). Burst fire with it is ridiculously satisfying in Halo 4, and I find it to be the most useful close-range weapon for me, even more so than the Boltshot, which I've never really liked all that much. I love hearing people cry when I am able to out-AR them at a distance using careful pulses like I see emphasized so much in the books, as crazy as that sounds.

That said, I really feel like spawning with JUST an AR is a grave mistake on 343's part. I like the BR, but I also understand that it is difficult to effectively use for the masses making it potentially frustrating for a lot of people who do like using an automatic off of spawn, and with Halo 3's and Halo 2's sandbox, I have to say that the BR is the only viable and fair starting weapon (DMR in Reach). However, this is Halo 4, and the pistol is actually quite useful (I've since adjusted my loadout to be BR + pistol + frag + hologram + dexterity + mobility) compared to the piece of garbage that were the Halo 2 AND 3 magnums. Also, the current Halo 4 BR is uber powerful, as well as the other rifles that may be littered around the map, making starting with only an AR problematic. The picture I keep seeing in my head is a BR/anyrifle user pinging me off spawn from Ring 3 to back tree by purple on Abandon. Obviously the spawns may be changed up a bit like they said, but if all I have is an AR to react there, I'm pooched. There's very little I can do as a decent player to change that circumstance if I'm fighting someone who is slightly aware of where I am.

So I say, AR primary, pistol secondary is ideal. If that proves too unbalanced (seeing as the Halo 4 pistol takes more skill than the rifles), then make a BR secondary. I just want to be effective off of spawn, without having to first hunt down something that can give me some semblance of protection at ranges greater than 20 feet.

It's worth saying that I'm against BR-only starts for a "mainstream" playlist, about as equally as I am against an AR-only start for a "classic"/"basic" playlist, mainstream or not. It is what it is. Glad to be at least having this debate again, but the real issue at hand, in my opinion is Sprint. Disabling it would make Legendary the markee playlist of Halo 4 for me.

 

[Gui_PT]

snip

Thanks man. Again, nothing against the guy, just curiosity.

But if he knows so much about Halo, why is this going downhill? Maybe he has ideas but they're not appreciated?

 

[Madness]

Thanks man. Again, nothing against the guy, just curiosity.

But if he knows so much about Halo, why is this going downhill? Maybe he has ideas but they're not appreciated?

Oh I know. Look at all the things he wanted out of Halo 4. How much did he get? The one thing that happened is they hired him to take care of competitive balance, but that's it.

I don't think they will listen. How many people at 343 at honestly diehard Halo fans as opposed to people in the industry who wanted a job when the studio was created?

Bravo is a guy who knew everything about balance, movement, strafe, map control, team play, weapon timing etc. I bet internally he goes crazy when people like Jess at 343 think camo boltshot is a viable form of gameplay etc.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Abso-friggen-lutely. This would improve matchmaking drastically. I seriously hope they go this direction in the future, after seeing games like Destiny and the Division, matchmaking hoppers seem so ancient and limited now, and while I don't think open-world matchmaking makes sense for a mainline Halo game, a toggle system like yours, or the one used in PC Battlefield is absolutely an improvement over how it works now.

I just want to say that I don't hate the Assault Rifle. I think it's a good weapon, and the Halo 4 variant is better than all previous since CE (even better since TURBO) and it most definitely has it's place in Halo. I've been using it as my secondary in Halo 4 in one of my main loadouts since launch (BR/DMR/LR depending on my mood + AR + frag + hologram + dexterity + firepower). Burst fire with it is ridiculously satisfying in Halo 4, and I find it to be the most useful close-range weapon for me, even more so than the Boltshot, which I've never really liked all that much. I love hearing people cry when I am able to out-AR them at a distance using careful pulses like I see emphasized so much in the books, as crazy as that sounds.

That said, I really feel like spawning with JUST an AR is a grave mistake on 343's part. I like the BR, but I also understand that it is difficult to effectively use for the masses making it potentially frustrating for a lot of people who do like using an automatic off of spawn, and with Halo 3's and Halo 2's sandbox, I have to say that the BR is the only viable and fair starting weapon (DMR in Reach). However, this is Halo 4, and the pistol is actually quite useful (I've since adjusted my loadout to be BR + pistol + frag + hologram + dexterity + mobility) compared to the piece of garbage that were the Halo 2 AND 3 magnums. Also, the current Halo 4 BR is uber powerful, as well as the other rifles that may be littered around the map, making starting with only an AR problematic. The picture I keep seeing in my head is a BR/anyrifle user pinging me off spawn from Ring 3 to back tree by purple on Abandon. Obviously the spawns may be changed up a bit like they said, but if all I have is an AR to react there, I'm pooched. There's very little I can do as a decent player to change that circumstance if I'm fighting someone who is slightly aware of where I am.

So I say, AR primary, pistol secondary is ideal. If that proves too unbalanced (seeing as the Halo 4 pistol takes more skill than the rifles), then make a BR secondary. I just want to be effective off of spawn, without having to first hunt down something that can give me some semblance of protection at ranges greater than 20 feet.

It's worth saying that I'm against BR-only starts for a "mainstream" playlist, about as equally as I am against an AR-only start for a "classic"/"basic" playlist, mainstream or not. It is what it is. Glad to be at least having this debate again, but the real issue at hand, in my opinion is Sprint. Disabling it would make Legendary the markee playlist of Halo 4 for me.

Damn reading that felt like having a conversation with myself in the mirror. All good mate and feels like how I play Halo 4 or any Halo for that matter. I think two variants would deliver AR with sprint and another as precision loadouts without sprint as a voting base. Legendary would then be just that, legendary. However the maps would have to really come to the party, free older DLC with legendary would go a long way e.g. Majestic DLC.

 

[IHaveIce]

Thanks man. Again, nothing against the guy, just curiosity.

But if he knows so much about Halo, why is this going downhill? Maybe he has ideas but they're not appreciated?

He is only a sustain manager or some shit not lead developer on multiplayer... sadly

 

[Tawpgun]

4 v 4 slayer, equal starting, static weapons... This is something players who would have rather have precision starts want.


Instead we're stuck with infinity Garbo and then the super hardcore throwdown on the other end

 

[FUBAR McDangles]

So that new Champions map pack thing, don't suppose it's included in the season pass?

And I finally get to post about the 3rd book in the K5 trilogy. What a goofy looking cover. I'm still looking forward to getting it and reading it, but I'm definitely not sure what to think of that one.

 

[Fuchsdh]

So that new Champions map pack thing, don't suppose it's included in the season pass?

And I finally get to post about the 3rd book in the K5 trilogy. What a goofy looking cover. I'm still looking forward to getting it and reading it, but I'm definitely not sure what to think of that one.

Nope. Not included in the season pass.

I really like the cover, anything that's not explodey gun stuff works for me. Do hope they actually improve the backdrop though, it feels like the first draft not a final cover.

 

[HigherLevel]

Thanks man. Again, nothing against the guy, just curiosity.

But if he knows so much about Halo, why is this going downhill? Maybe he has ideas but they're not appreciated?

Bravo is basically just a playlist manager, unfortunately he doesn't have nearly as much decision making power as someone like Quinn or Kevin Franklin.

edit: If Bravo was lead MP designer I'm sure we'd have the best Halo game in years.

 

[Gui_PT]

Bravo is basically just a playlist manager, unfortunately he doesn't have nearly as much decision making power as someone like Quinn or Kevin Franklin.

edit: If Bravo was lead MP designer I'm sure we'd have the best Halo game in years.

Yeah they need someone who actually plays/enjoys playing Halo to make these decisions.

 

[IHaveIce]

Yeah they need someone who actually plays/enjoys playing Halo to make these decisions.

Ghostayame.

No seriously they also need to cut some stuff from the sandbox, there are so many weapons that share similiar roles it is just stupid.

Halo CE still has the best sandbox

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I think they need someone who enjoyed Halo, but does not enjoy Halo 4. So they can make it go back.

WE HAVE TO GO BACK PICTURE HERE.

HALOST

#HireJuices

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

I think they need someone who enjoyed Halo, but does not enjoy Halo 4 or Halo Reach. So they can make it go back.

WE HAVE TO GO BACK PICTURE HERE.

HALOST

#HireJuices

Fixed.

(Not that there aren't parts of Reach/4 that I do like).

 

[Risen]

Fixed.

(Not that there aren't parts of Reach/4 that I do like).

There is definitely a continuum they've been traveling down since their original release in CE, and it's moved more and more towards the pack in terms of style of play. Halo was once the only game I wanted to play. Today, it's just another game in the box I play from time to time.

Halo was at one time a completely fresh breath of air and is today stale because it comes closer and closer to every other FPS released.

The very thing executives chase in sales is the very thing that is killing that which made the game so great in the first place. There is no denying the franchise is an unmitigated financial success, but today, it holds no more of my attention than any other game I happen to be playing.

Game franchises lose the original vision with each subsequent release precisely because of incorporating things they think people want based off sales figures, rather than taking a real look at what made the original game great. Great games are never found in the masses. Great games capture people's hearts and minds and suck them into playing that game to the exclusion of others, and that cannot be found in the mass collective of similar games.

But those huge sales numbers are found more frequently and in larger amounts within that status quo.

The features many of us want will be found in another title again. It will be one that runs counter to the mass market, or introduces some feature in a way that captures people's attention in a big way... and after that initial release, we'll see the same cycle start there as well - it truly has become the nature of the beast in the gaming industry as profits have increased and it entered truly "big business".

 

[Gui_PT]

This is a first

Just finished a match and the post game carnage doesn't show my name. It shows 2 full teams of 8 players but I'm not there

 

[HigherLevel]

Yeah they need someone who actually plays/enjoys playing Halo to make these decisions.

Yeah. Unfortunately Halo 5 will probably have ADS, ODST squads you can call in to get kills for you when you get a running riot, and no jump button.

 

[Obscured]

Abso-friggen-lutely. This would improve matchmaking drastically. I seriously hope they go this direction in the future, after seeing games like Destiny and the Division, matchmaking hoppers seem so ancient and limited now, and while I don't think open-world matchmaking makes sense for a mainline Halo game, a toggle system like yours, or the one used in PC Battlefield is absolutely an improvement over how it works now.

I just want to say that I don't hate the Assault Rifle. I think it's a good weapon, and the Halo 4 variant is better than all previous since CE (even better since TURBO) and it most definitely has it's place in Halo. I've been using it as my secondary in Halo 4 in one of my main loadouts since launch (BR/DMR/LR depending on my mood + AR + frag + hologram + dexterity + firepower). Burst fire with it is ridiculously satisfying in Halo 4, and I find it to be the most useful close-range weapon for me, even more so than the Boltshot, which I've never really liked all that much. I love hearing people cry when I am able to out-AR them at a distance using careful pulses like I see emphasized so much in the books, as crazy as that sounds.

That said, I really feel like spawning with JUST an AR is a grave mistake on 343's part. I like the BR, but I also understand that it is difficult to effectively use for the masses making it potentially frustrating for a lot of people who do like using an automatic off of spawn, and with Halo 3's and Halo 2's sandbox, I have to say that the BR is the only viable and fair starting weapon (DMR in Reach). However, this is Halo 4, and the pistol is actually quite useful (I've since adjusted my loadout to be BR + pistol + frag + hologram + dexterity + mobility) compared to the piece of garbage that were the Halo 2 AND 3 magnums. Also, the current Halo 4 BR is uber powerful, as well as the other rifles that may be littered around the map, making starting with only an AR problematic. The picture I keep seeing in my head is a BR/anyrifle user pinging me off spawn from Ring 3 to back tree by purple on Abandon. Obviously the spawns may be changed up a bit like they said, but if all I have is an AR to react there, I'm pooched. There's very little I can do as a decent player to change that circumstance if I'm fighting someone who is slightly aware of where I am.

So I say, AR primary, pistol secondary is ideal. If that proves too unbalanced (seeing as the Halo 4 pistol takes more skill than the rifles), then make a BR secondary. I just want to be effective off of spawn, without having to first hunt down something that can give me some semblance of protection at ranges greater than 20 feet.

It's worth saying that I'm against BR-only starts for a "mainstream" playlist, about as equally as I am against an AR-only start for a "classic"/"basic" playlist, mainstream or not. It is what it is. Glad to be at least having this debate again, but the real issue at hand, in my opinion is Sprint. Disabling it would make Legendary the markee playlist of Halo 4 for me.

All above makes a lot of sense.

I do wonder why they didn't include the pistol as secondary. I know how much (many)people hate AR-only starts, but I always thought it was an attempt to force (maybe force isn't the right word, let's say encourage) a more mid-range fight off the start with some roles being further defined by who went to grab which weapons of spawn. When I first got a handle on it I thought of it in terms of the pre-match buy options of CS, but happening in-game (not an apt comparison, but hopefully you get my drift)

The idea of say Sandtrap, and seeing the other team but not being able to engage them seems like it could have that cool battle rush type feel (you know those scenes in movies where the two opposing forces rush toward each other and collide in a massive cluster of destruction and death). Though it never really worked out that way and after that first rush (which may or may not happen) it never really occurs again and you spend more time looking for the ammo you want instead of engaging the opponent. Which actually happens a lot in halo 4 if you are picking a less popular weapon and one that seems to run out of ammo quickly (thanks a lot, light rifle).

One reason I liked the idea of it was the calm before the storm, having the time to actually think about what was happening, which is actually why I'm not much a fan of instant respawn and sprint for some of the same reason. I'm fine with them, but think the game is better without. Part of the reason I always thought the 30 seconds of fun idea was so great was that it was broken up so you could enjoy those bits.

Based on past experience seems like it is just a matter of time until AR/pistol or BR-start variants are added. Seems odd though, I'm sure 343 was aware of what reaction AR starts would have.

Unrelated, but I had an odd loading issue on one game last night. My HUD was gone for about the first 30-45 seconds of the match. I've had where my AA wasn't available until the first time I died, but this is the first time I had seen this. It is what I've always wanted the blind skull to be and made me wish it was an option for customs.

 

[User 73706]

Given how big the sandbox is growing, I think I'd really rather them just make 10-15 default weapon "templates." These templates would be standardized across the board for competitive multi, but otherwise you could modify the weapons a bunch to turn a Spiker into a Plasma Rifle, Rockets into a Plasma Launcher, etc. for campaign "loot" or for crazy custom games.