I'm pretty sure Frankie mentioned they are not doing a major overhaul of game mechanics in Halo 6. Rather they are just going to refine it.
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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
- Thread starter sir_dany12
- Start date
VincentMatts
Member
Good. Thank god.
Why would anyone want to play without aim assist on a controller? Sounds like a horrible time.
I guess he meant aim assist on spartan charge.
In other words when you spartan charge you should always move in a straight line/path and i agree.
They need to reduce the area of effect from Scharge
Feel the Swift
Member
Best games are spawning with an enhanced rocket launcher and incineration cannon. Killtacs for days lol
VincentMatts
Member
Halo chess with the halo wars pieces confirmed?
Feel the Swift
Member
Remove Spartan charge. 0 reason for it. I was on the no sprint train at the beginning but don't want to go back. Sprint slide thrust is just too good for covering large stretches of ground. Keep ground pound because it's useful to hang in the air and reach platforms before getting your thrust back. Clamber is fine. I'd be interested to see how a half jump would be used in 1v1 battles though.
Plenty of people have quite halo BECAUSE of mechanics like sprint and clamber
Clamber i can live with, but the maps shouldnt be designed around a mechanic that requires you to put your gun down.
The only benefit of sprint as that its faster than base movement. So why not just increase basemovement?
VincentMatts
Member
No one quit halo because of that. They quit halo because Halo4 was garbage online and MCC was utterly broken.
Feel the Swift
Member
That's really unfortunate too. Don't think they gave it enough of a chance. I feel like all of us that have been here since the beginning have adapted and enjoyed ourselves.
In all honesty though I like your ideas and would welcome them in H6, I just don't see 343 mixing it up again.
People definitely still bitch about sprint as their main beef though.
You must not have visited halowaypoint or team beyond since launch.
VincentMatts
Member
I find it hilarious that people still think that removing the sprint will bring halo back to its glory days. Absolutely hilarious.
I never understood why people and developers (Bungie included) always thought Halo had to change its formula over the years by always trying to add a fourth (Halo 3 equipments, Halo Reach/4 armor abilities, Halo 5 Spartan abilities) element to the golden triangle (Grenade, Weapon, Melee).
If people liked Halo CE, Halo 2 and Halo 3, there was a reason.
We don't need to change Halo formula, and I think we really don't need to make Halo first goal to be esport-ready.
"Only the Sith deal in absolutes". If not having Sprint means you will bo longer play this game, then it is what it is. The rest of us have been able to play Halo through bloom and armor lock and jetpacks and loadouts and instant respawn and promethean vision and sprint and now spartan charge. Going forward we can play with Sprint or without Sprint. But many of us note the negative effects it has on gameplay.
I mean it should be evident to 343 now and other fans that chasing CoD mechanica hasn't brought in those players or any additional sales and has only alienated/polarized fans. Sprint has honestly never worked properly in Halo. This is now the third mainline game with Sprint.
I dont think that... but it will make it a better game.
People sure aren't coming to Halo BECAUSE of sprint
What about the massive changes made between halo ce and halo 2?
Devs tweak formulas to keep gameplay fresh and attract new players. The hard part is making changes that actually benefit the game and don't alienate existing fans.
i'm terrible with the incineration cannon. give me a railgun tho
As massive as the changes made by Halo 4/5? I don't think so.
The design principles and the formula was still the same.Bungie understood with the CE Magnum that Halo needed a proper precise weapon which could be used more than the assault rifle. The weapon balance was different for sure, but it didn't move on from the Golden Triangle and the design principle behind Halo.
Super Fiesta is great for getting better with those weaps and working on your commendations for them tho. If I spawned in a Twin Jewels in Warzone I give it a 99% chance I would immediately get sniped or destroyed somehow.
I think my favorite REQ I've discovered through Fiesta is one of the base Beam Rifle REQs that basically makes you a double-snapshot machine.
VincentMatts
Member
People arent staying away because of it either. Youre absolutely dreaming. Those people are an incredibly small, vocal minority. And halo waypoint forums.....really? Halo4 went through an identity crisis, thats what turned a lot of people off and it was mostly due to those stupid kill streaks. Halo4 changed the way it was played, but not in the way you think. Halo4 wasnt about shoot, grenade, melee anymore. It was about killstreaks and vehicles. Gone were the days of map control and power weapons placed on the maps. All of the effort in Halo4 was made to push their new BTB efforts. Thats what turned people off.
Halo5 has proven that sprint and clamber works. Hell, even 343 said themselves that the halo5 population was even higher than halo3s. So people leaving because of sprint holds no water.
Secondly, Halo MCC came out and i personally know a few hardcore halo fans who ever came back after that mess. Didnt even buy 5. And these are Halo guys. MCC being a broken fucking mess did more damage than adding sprint ever did or will do. Between the both of those games, 343 did all the damage themselves by changing the most important Halo elements: shoot, grenade, melee and allowing for games to release completely busted.
Only people who left halo were people who didnt wanna play broken ass games like MCC, and you have 343 to thank for that one. Not the fucking sprint button. Jesus...
Completely disagree.
Imo people moved on for other more important reasons:
Alot of really good FPS games to choose from and each is special in their own way
-Battlefield huge scale maps with air/ground vehicles impressive graphics(casuals love graphics btw) and complete chaos which nails down ww1 combat.
-Overwatch i don't really like this one but i understand why other people do. Simply there alot of people out there that like hero based games(dota,LoL) and OW is the one to first delivere that in FPShooter+waifus
-CoD i have no clue why people buy this game even though it completely changes each year i don't really follow the news about CoD but i really don't get it how the community sticks together.
-Destiny people like to farm shit and do the same dungeon/raid over and over again to get shiny new loot. They get people hooked on new shiny loot just like MMOs
These are the 4 big games where most people went after halo and some quit gaming in general or play casually.
Some of you seem to forget that halo glory days were like 8 years ago you can't really expect the same people to keep playing the game after that long.
I bet that if halo had better graphics+dev BtB maps+warzone maps as detailed/polished as Battlefield we would have a much more active community(casuals but then you have bigger pool of players to attract into comp halo)
There are problems with h5 but i don't thing sprint or any other small change is the reason that people left.
Edit: Forgot to add MCC disaster...
You need to check your informations better Vincent.
343 said that the retention was the best since Halo 3. It means:
- it wasn't better than Halo 3, but better since Halo 3, so it includes Reach & Halo 4
- it isn't about the global population number, but the retention, which means if you have 10 players on day 1, then 2 left, you still have 8 players on day 2, so the retention is about 80%.
If Halo 3 had 100 players on day 1, then 50 leave on day 2, you still have a better online population, but the retention is half lower, it's only 50%.
You need to read under the lines. Please.
Samurai G0SU
Member
Feels like a reference to Halo Wars 2? Chess pieces in relation to strategy in RTS games??
But ai for forge sounds cool.
But ai for forge sounds cool.
VincentMatts
Member
Regardless, its about everything else i said.
To blame the population falling on a "sprint" when the population has been falling since Bungie was around is idiotic. The games have not gotten any better after 3 and that was a much bigger problem. Halo5 is the first good online halo game since 3. Thats the problem. Put quality games and people will play. Put Halo4 and MCC and people will leave. Its really pretty fucking simple.
No aim assist for spartan charge.
It underlines that you should consider getting more information before posting stuff and affirmation, don't you think? As I said before:
People liked Halo for a reason. Did you feel the need for sprint and other stuff while playing Halo CE/2/3? The level designer made their way so you didn't need to sprint. The thing we could all agree is that the player move was too slow and the MLG settings for Halo 3 were good about this.
I don't know if people left Halo because of Sprint, but they surely left because the formula had changed and they did not found the Halo they were looking for. Maybe that is an information to keep in mind?
As for myself, I left Halo 5 because the AIM wasn't as good as in past Halo, I don't like Thruster (I don't think it fits well in Halo) but I do think climber was a very good addition to Halo that feels natural.
GringoSuave89
Banned
The quote that came with the pic makes me think this is possible. Nothing like a WarGames quote, fun movie.
The only way to win is to not play. Soooooo 343i is advocating that people should stop playing Halo 5.
VincentMatts
Member
No i personally didnt, but i didnt feel like i needed an iphone either and then apple released it. People dont always know 100% of what they want until they have a taste of it. And just because i didn't know i wanted an iphone then, doesnt make smart phones a bad decision now. Thats evolution.
Halo not having a sprint before 4 doesn't make it a bad decision now. When halo was out then, practically everything played like that. No shooters put sprint buttons on top of the base movement then. And im old enough to remember cause i was a Live beta tester. It just wasnt done. Then someone did it and things changed. The formula in 5 is better than any Halo game before it. Only thing H2 did better was maps. Otherwise 5 is superior in practically every way gameplay wise.
To stick to how halo played in the passed doesnt guarantee any success now. Halo was literally by itself on console back then and yeah, it was number one. No shit. And what was its competition back then? There practically wasn't any. Splinter cell? rainbow six3? It wasnt until some actually good competition came out that Halo started to dwindle.
Halo fell because good competition actually came out and it wasnt alone anymore. And where most people who owned an xbox played halo then, now have 10-15 really good MP games to choose from today. Thats why halos population fell.
Halo was alone then, now it isnt. To put all of the blame on a sprint feature or its old gameplay that finally evolved is absolutely retarded.
The iphone comparison isn't, in my pow ofc, a good one. If you want to translate that to Halo and shooter mechanics in general, Halo is the iphone.
Smartphone were already there before iphone, but Apple find the appropriate formula to make it work like hell and built solid foundation for the market. It has inspired Google and other to add new thing, but gives a perfect, yet simple, formula.
Halo is the IPhone, where Android could be, idk, Call Of Duty. It used elements from the IPhone and added things on top of it, but still, Apple found is way with the iPhone and iOS and continue on this path, while Google and Android took inspiration and continued on another path.
I'm not saying Halo will be as successful as it was if you take out the sprint. It sure won't, and now Halo added Sprint, I think it will never be removed, mostly because Halo is now associated with Sprint.
But I do think Halo add a formula that was unique, and if it didn't altered its formula, Halo could still have its unique style and be that shooter for that category of players & people, like OverWatch has its formula, CoD do, Titanfall do, etc...
And Halo could still differentiate itself from the competition if it would came back to its proper formula.
Look at DOOM. No Sprint, basic formula with added jumping system, and look how successful it was.
There is still some place in this modern market for old-game based shooters. And Halo could be the top of its own category.
Doing my part!
(Spartan Charges AND assassinations AND marine kills. So many marine kills...)
Never heard about this story part 1/2. What is this about?
VincentMatts
Member
Well id argue that Doom isnt being played online by many people. Doom was acclaimed for its SP, not its MP. In fact most people said its MP was the weakest part of the game. And MS dont want Halo to be the number one old game based shooter. They want halo to be number one, period.
And i dont agree that Halos MP isnt unique. Thats what i think the big problem here is. Halo still plays like nothing else out there, even with those elements included.
Which game has you play for power weapons, map control, and doesn't let you choose your starting weapon? They practically all do this but halo (in arena). Halo still maintained its classic elements with 5 which makes it very unique. Id even argue that this is exactly why 4 failed. Cause it didnt stay true to halos core gameplay elements. Map control, power weapns on the map, shoot melee, and grenades etc..
Anyway we can go on forever.
You're right, I play DOOM MP because it has its own pace and style, which can be really fun sometime, but I agree that is not the best thing about DOOM.
I don't think Halo will be the top dog anymore, but you're right a second time, MS wants it to be so hardly they don't really care about what makes Halo "great".
At least, you're also right. Halo 5 play like nothing else, it's still the game I go sometime because I like the Halo formula, BR/Magnum & shield combat, and that's something I can't find anywhere else.
I didn't tried to convince you, we can't convince someone over the internet, but I appreciated to get your pov.
They are going to be posting about what the update has in it, but because it's so big they have to split the news story into 2 parts with part 1 being tomorrow.
So far what we know of the update
-Server Browser
-Voice Pack
-Grenade Launcher
-Race
-Gun Game
-New Firefight Mode
-New Arena mode that involves REQs
-Boat load of Forge stuff
You can disagree all you want, but I've read thousands of posts on here, Reddit, team beyond, and halowaypoint where people cite the mechanical changes as a top reason for their departure.
That's not to say there aren't OTHER reasons people have left Halo. But I was responding to someone who said he'd quit if Sprint was removed- as if it's inclusion didn't drive people away.
For the record, i am not against tweaking or changing the formula. For reference, halo 2 is my favorite halo, despite having so little in common with CE.
I also really like H5. But sprint and clamber have negatively effected the way maps are designed- Mainly because they are required for effective navigation rather than being mere option.
Excluding Halo 4 (which isn't a halo game imo) the formula changes between CE and Halo 2 is the most drastic in the series. Halo 5 is what Halo Reach would have been if Bungie kept their 'even starts' mentality.
So you think 1) H5 has more players than h3 and 2) that people don't stay away because they don't like the mechanics
BUT
1) h5s population has never even been close to h3s and 2) you yourself said you'd stay away if the change the mechanics to something you don't like
But somehow I'm the one who's dreaming...
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
You literally just said you and your friends would stop playing if they removed sprint, but you don't possibly think that the reverse is true, that people quit Halo because they hate sprint and these other mechanics?
I don't even.
Better hurry. We're removing SC from Grifball soon.
I have no inside information other than one very small tidbit that, if true, will make the next update a real game changer.
[edit]club inv plz - runNOKYARDrun
VincentMatts
Member
You're right, I play DOOM MP because it has its own pace and style, which can be really fun sometime, but I agree that is not the best thing about DOOM.
I don't think Halo will be the top dog anymore, but you're right a second time, MS wants it to be so hardly they don't really care about what makes Halo "great".
At least, you're also right. Halo 5 play like nothing else, it's still the game I go sometime because I like the Halo formula, BR/Magnum & shield combat, and that's something I can't find anywhere else.
I didn't tried to convince you, we can't convince someone over the internet, but I appreciated to get your pov.
Well honestly, i didnt like reach too much, i enjoyed 4s SP but its MP didnt get much play from me even though i did enjoy it at first. I think halo5 is a great MP game. Its one of the best out there for me with BF1. It combines its classic gameplay and still manages to keep up with the times. To me, 343 is absolutely in the right path with 5s MP core.
Theres a difference between going forward, and going backwards. I dont want to go back to flip phones either and if we ever do, i might start writing pen written letters again too.
I think sometimes going backwards can somewhat work (like Dooms SP) but most of the time, it doesnt. A classic playlist in MP im totally fine with that but i dont think id enjoy a full game of that. Not anymore.
Ok let's assume that alot of people left halo because of sprint / new mechanics, so where did they go?
Every other popular FPS game has sprint or flying/wallrunning or some kind of weird ability.
That's why i find it hard to believe someone switching from halo gameplay to cod / ow / bf / Destiny as his main game and be like yep that feels good compared to halo.
The only game i think that kept its classic formula is CSGO but that's on PC, totally different market.
Maybe i am wrong here but that's how i see it.
Also i think reddit/beyond/halogaf is a tiny minority of halo 5 and they focus too much into e-sports, hcs streams have like 5k viewers at best which is really bad.
I really hope hcs improves over time, i enjoy watching the games.