-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?
- Thread starter sir_dany12
- Start date
Poodlestrike
Banned
IMO, H5 pretty clearly has issues unrelated to basic writing ability (although there's a few problems there too). Going over the art book and other behind-the-scenes snippets, it really seems like they were going in a fairly different direction with the game's structure and plot,but ended up being forced to revise into what we got. I still say that the plot is alright, fundamentally, but it's nearly 100% setup for the new status quo and that's kind of a bummer. Still, that new status quo is pretty damn cool, so I'm still on board. Do wish we could get a better idea of the Hall 5 that could've been, though.
I agree.
If plot is shit, then it can't be fundamentally right. The concept might be OK, but as noted, the idea of Cortana becoming evil was rejected by Bungie long ago on the account of it being cliche.
It doesn't help things Halo 4 set up were basically thrown away. The Didact and the return of the Forerunners, Chief's possible disillusionment with the UNCS and soldiering, Halsey's revenge, the artifact thing from Spartan Ops... All gone, all done, for nothing.
It doesn't help things Halo 4 set up were basically thrown away. The Didact and the return of the Forerunners, Chief's possible disillusionment with the UNCS and soldiering, Halsey's revenge, the artifact thing from Spartan Ops... All gone, all done, for nothing.
Halo 4 set some cool things up, but it was all thrown away with 5. What a disappointment.
The ending of 4 made it seem like we were getting a very focused story on chief with 5... We got the exact opposite.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I would argue that the thing they've done with Cortina is more interesting than just "becoming evil". The typical crazy megalomaniac arguments against human antagonists with her motives don't necessarily apply, and after the last few weeks, AI takeover of society is sounding pretty good 😛. So there's some interesting nuance, especially if we start seeing relatable figures start arguing for her position in-game. So the plot is okay. The lack of in-game payoff and issues with execution are definitely holding it back, but the core elements are solid.
I do agree that it's a shame that all the H4 setup stuff got discarded, and it's unquestionably sloppy, but I'm willing to see where they go with it for now. If they make a habit of it, that's another matter.
Other than the emotional (for longtime lore nerds) chief/Blue team reunion, I can't really think of anything super important to the plot of 5 that got ditched. That probably has a lot to do with the plot of 5 as conceived during the planning for 4 seemingly also going out the airlock, but still. Wrapping up the Spartan Ops stuff and tweaking the Didact's fate a little don't really qualify, imo; that stuff could've been important, but clearly isn't anymore.
It is an issue that most of the comics suck, though. That's not great.
The Didact's fate isn't important? Dude, he was the big bad guy of the previous game and it ends with him falling into a space portal rather than outright killing him.
Then again at this point, I'm half expecting there to be a sing and dance in the next game because Brian Reed went through a musical phase during development.
Adventures on a Halo, fighting the Didact properly... that shit should have been in-game stuff, not something that happens in comics.
I expect we'll see the Didact in Halo 6, because he was apparently Composed, and with an AI army running around, i can see the Didact becoming a pseudo-Gravemind of AIs... But that is not satisfactory, not really.
The Spartan Ops stuff is certainly less important but still kinda silly they make it solved so easily and basically absolved Halsey in the process.
One could see that as 343i's response to criticism about handling Halsey (they did portray her as a villain and got called out on that) but i'd argue not being consistent is even worse. Shows no guts, and is not really an answer to criticism anyway (multiple POVs about Halsey would have been better, with better elaborated reasoning).
The Blue Team reunion... Well, that's another problem. Without reading comics or Halopedia, one's reaction to Halo 5 is most like "Who the fuck are these guys?".
And back to Cortana. AI-mediated civilization is an interesting concept, certainly. But AI take-over is nothing more than your usual "robot war" trope, which is all too often played straight with little variety.
And it comes out of nowhere in Halo 5. AIs have been part of Halo always, but this plays them up way too much.
I expect we'll see the Didact in Halo 6, because he was apparently Composed, and with an AI army running around, i can see the Didact becoming a pseudo-Gravemind of AIs... But that is not satisfactory, not really.
The Spartan Ops stuff is certainly less important but still kinda silly they make it solved so easily and basically absolved Halsey in the process.
One could see that as 343i's response to criticism about handling Halsey (they did portray her as a villain and got called out on that) but i'd argue not being consistent is even worse. Shows no guts, and is not really an answer to criticism anyway (multiple POVs about Halsey would have been better, with better elaborated reasoning).
The Blue Team reunion... Well, that's another problem. Without reading comics or Halopedia, one's reaction to Halo 5 is most like "Who the fuck are these guys?".
And back to Cortana. AI-mediated civilization is an interesting concept, certainly. But AI take-over is nothing more than your usual "robot war" trope, which is all too often played straight with little variety.
And it comes out of nowhere in Halo 5. AIs have been part of Halo always, but this plays them up way too much.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Wells, that's sort of my point- they Never Found the Body'd him in the H4 ending, so tweaking that to "was composed" isn't a huge change of fate. They should definitely retell it in a more visible format if/when they bring him back, but again- in terms of absolute difference, his fate hasn't changed much.
Starting from the bottom, there is no robot war. Cortina won the fight basically immediately. Now we're on the Resistance stage against the semi benevolent AI, which is a lot more interesting, imo.
Agreed that Blue Team reunion was always going to be a problem. Like I said, their presence was always mostly going to be for us lore nerds, which is why I'm simultaneously kind of put out that they didn't reunite in game, but I get why they were reluctant to use up screen time and budget putting that front and center.
I maintain that Halsey was never fully villainised directly by 343--she was only really shit on in Kilo 5, her Spartan Ops portrayal was way more nuanced. Her characterization is a lot closer to Nylund's but they don't bury the arguments against what she did like he did.
I kind of doubt that the Didact's is going to play much of a part in 6. Maybe as a stinger. It'll probably be more about Chief and the Infinity gathering the resistance, waging a guerilla war. Probably hunting for Mendicant Bias as a counterbalance to Cortana.
Well, since Cortana is semi-benevolent, she's too good to be a villain, because reasons. And she has set up the stage for the Didact to take over perfectly.
Not saying this make sense... This is just how i expect things to be based on current track record.
Also, it is robot war still. Guerrilla warfare doesn't change that there's a war going on. Humans vs AIs=robot war. And one pretty poorly done. AI figures it is better than humans, and so takes over the world. So very familiar... That the AI is benevolent is not unusual, there are basically two ways things play out usually: according the AI humans are better off under its rule (and this may even be true in some ways), or they exterminate humans.
EDIT Halsey-Spops: You're right, Spops portrayal of her wasn't as bad as Traviss shitting on her. But still, no mention to that in Halo 5 is kinda odd. But pretty minor all things considered.
Not saying this make sense... This is just how i expect things to be based on current track record.
Also, it is robot war still. Guerrilla warfare doesn't change that there's a war going on. Humans vs AIs=robot war. And one pretty poorly done. AI figures it is better than humans, and so takes over the world. So very familiar... That the AI is benevolent is not unusual, there are basically two ways things play out usually: according the AI humans are better off under its rule (and this may even be true in some ways), or they exterminate humans.
EDIT Halsey-Spops: You're right, Spops portrayal of her wasn't as bad as Traviss shitting on her. But still, no mention to that in Halo 5 is kinda odd. But pretty minor all things considered.
orichalcos
Member
Didact biological form was destroyed.
Twilight Gap
Member
god halo's story is so fucking stupid now. praying for a complee retcon
Samurai G0SU
Member
idk guys, i really hope they can get me excited about the story again with halo 6.
I also hope they are listening and dont do what they did with 5 again. putting master chief at number 2 and forcing us to play locke's pov the majority of the game. i mean 3 levels with chief. ... i was actually sad when the game ended and that was it.
Sanghelios was an amazing play place with the new abilities for sure. I loved when we first land on genesis, but then the "hallways" became dull and non exciting to me.
The fight between lock and chief was also cringe-worthy too. how can locke out-battle the chief!? Then Locke cracked his visor, come the f on. lol sigh...
They really tried to make a normal person become 'just as good' as the chief. i cant jive with that.
------------------------------------------
My guess on some things that will be included in Halo 6
4 person Fire-team
4 player co-op
Missions will be divided by the Leader of the mission;
14 missions, 3 will have no action and just exploration like the 'towns' in halo 5
.
We will see the Halo Ring, but im not sure we will even land on it. I mean they didnt give a fuk about the halo 4 ring world and threw it into the sun. Maybe there is one mission where we go and destroy it up because Cortana wants to light it up.
Ending will probably tie in with the ending of Halo Wars 2 - whether it be atriox siding with the created or carter meeting up with the infinity. so then with halo 7 itll be an even bigger war attacking 'guardians' and saving all species of the galaxy.
I also hope they are listening and dont do what they did with 5 again. putting master chief at number 2 and forcing us to play locke's pov the majority of the game. i mean 3 levels with chief. ... i was actually sad when the game ended and that was it.
Sanghelios was an amazing play place with the new abilities for sure. I loved when we first land on genesis, but then the "hallways" became dull and non exciting to me.
The fight between lock and chief was also cringe-worthy too. how can locke out-battle the chief!? Then Locke cracked his visor, come the f on. lol sigh...
They really tried to make a normal person become 'just as good' as the chief. i cant jive with that.
------------------------------------------
My guess on some things that will be included in Halo 6
4 person Fire-team
4 player co-op
Missions will be divided by the Leader of the mission;
- Chief
- Locke
- Arbitor
14 missions, 3 will have no action and just exploration like the 'towns' in halo 5
lol
We will see the Halo Ring, but im not sure we will even land on it. I mean they didnt give a fuk about the halo 4 ring world and threw it into the sun. Maybe there is one mission where we go and destroy it up because Cortana wants to light it up.
Ending will probably tie in with the ending of Halo Wars 2 - whether it be atriox siding with the created or carter meeting up with the infinity. so then with halo 7 itll be an even bigger war attacking 'guardians' and saving all species of the galaxy.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Halo has a story?
VincentMatts
Member
not sure if serious
Twilight Gap
Member
Halo CE had an average self contained story that was elevated by the plot twists, and the Arbiter's narrative in Halo 2 was exceptional. it gets weaker after that and now i don't even know what's going on.
All I know is Cortana used to be a 3-dimensional character capable of deciding her own fate (Halo 2) and then regretting it (Halo 3). and then 343 decided to make her a damsel in distress one minute and a villain the next.
Poodlestrike
Banned
The thing that makes the AI guerilla war they've set up for 6 distinct from, say, Terminator, is that the enemy faction is going to be a lot more diverse (expecting Grunt weirdness to figure prominently) and that, at the end of the day, the example of a benevolent AI rebellion is a LOT rarer than the alternative. I'd expect us to have to fight our way through at least one utopian space Cortana set up, just to drive home the possibility that she's right.
Also hoping the Banished factor in somehow, they're pretty damn cool.
In a typical heavy-handed way. We get scolded for it, yet praised for defeating Cortana. Or something like that. Probably.
So, I was showing someone around on Halo 2 Anni, and went to trigger the invincible Warthog egg.. and then.. suddenly the game spawned a Warthog on top of a box that kept it's horn on, even after you got in, and there's no way to stop it.
I've never seen that happen, and I was streaming at the time.
HOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKK
I've never seen that happen, and I was streaming at the time.
HOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKK
Impossible as the Didact is immune to the composers effects.
Per the comics, apparently not. Multiple Composers Composing him at once... poof. UNSC etc. think he is dead but 343i indicated he is actually alive... well, exists.
Prinz Eugn
Member
are you?
Yep.
Fundamentally I know it's really hard to make individual stories work when they take part in this intertwined fictional universe, which limits what can and cannot take place in each one, but somehow I still feel like 343i hasn't really risen to the challenge. The whole universe is a clunky, haphazard mess, and I just stopped caring after a while.
Josh Menke has come up with a better solution than I and others had on Waypoint in regards of Smurfing Accounts:
Here is the full Feedback Update: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%E2%80%93-feb-6/323f0140-1146-480a-a662-ba169e585568/posts?page=1
Kinda sad that they can't or won't do stuff like Partying up post-game,Party Chat pre-game lobby and Map Vetoes.
Here is the full Feedback Update: https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/58b8518e005f432381ab99fbcaf931e0/topics/matchmaking-feedback-update-%E2%80%93-feb-6/323f0140-1146-480a-a662-ba169e585568/posts?page=1
Kinda sad that they can't or won't do stuff like Partying up post-game,Party Chat pre-game lobby and Map Vetoes.
orichalcos
Member
Twilight Gap
Member
i just think it's so cool how Cortana - of perfectly sound mind - decides to stay behind in Halo 2 to make sure the bomb goes off. She's not dying, nor is she needlessly sacrificing herself. Of course, that plan doesn't work out so well for her and Chief goes to get her, which leads to a touching reunion in Halo 3's otherwise weak story (obviously a result of half of the first act being vestigial from Halo 2)
Samurai G0SU
Member
we need chess plays from the gravemind up in here though.
GRAVEMIND!
GRAVEMIND!
GRAVEMIND!
GRAVEMIND!
GRAVEMIND!
GRAVEMIND!
Twilight Gap
Member
where is the halo movie already
User 73706
Banned
I know it's just the coloring, but, uh, is that Basis?
orichalcos
Member
The Question is: Which ring?
Installation 04C? (New ring)
Gamma Halo? (Because The Next 72 hours story)
Cortana's Ring?
(Maybe Installation 1-2-3?)
Looks like the Ark's atmosphere over the center ring. Or about that anyway.
I bet it is 04C, and that Guilty Spark is back (i mean, they revived him in one of the books or something).
ZeezbruhTV
Member
So the Gfinity London event just announced the location, its in a badass stadium but it was announced a WEEK before it begins, literally mindboggling.
We also JUST got a worlds date after weeks/months of waiting and.....its just a date, no location. Also tickets go on sale in the middle of the day, just LOL.
oh and can't forget, its 20ish days after the Vegas event...just what?
We also JUST got a worlds date after weeks/months of waiting and.....its just a date, no location. Also tickets go on sale in the middle of the day, just LOL.
oh and can't forget, its 20ish days after the Vegas event...just what?
GringoSuave89
Banned
Wasn't the Forerunner Trilogy books framed from his retelling? I think that's what it was anyway.
Yeah. Wasn't he captured by ONI and then he hijacked a ship or escaped to go look for his friends or something?
Also, we've still got the Super Ark and Super Halos to worry about. They're out there somewhere and NOBODY IN THE LORE IS TALKING ABOUT IT.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Yup. Or, the human that eventually became GS anyway. Ends with him hijacking the ONI cutter he was on and heading out for parts unknown. I could see him returning, though he'd probably act differently now.
The Greater Ark and all of the larger Halos were destroyed before the activation of the Halo Array. The only remaining one left is Installation 07 (reconfigured to be smaller.)
User 73706
Banned
oh my god they're just going to make another alpha halo
THE RIDE NEVER ENDS
THE RIDE NEVER ENDS
nope those were destroyed.
Badass stadium is underselling it, it is in the fricking wembley stadium, but announced way to late.
Worlds is again in California in Burbank.. sigh.
HCS has been one of the most poorly run pro league and esports leagues for any AAA game. Gears has a fraction of the viewerbase but they have proper venues, casters, and tell things months in advance and they get hundreds of more attendees than Halo does. The Gfinity event they just NOW tell people it is at Wembley. It will be amazing but people now have barely a week to plan things to go, I would be surprised if they didn't just give away tickets on the street or have randoms come in to fill seats.
For the summer pro league finals, withholding information for so long, someone shared a pic of attendance.
This is Halo, and all that is being done is bare minimum. And seems the HWC 2017 is going to be at the ESL studios Burbank location.
"We renewed our faith in the prophecy that other rings would be found... and see how our faith has been rewarded!"
GringoSuave89
Banned
Shit, I thought I got you back in, I hit the wrong person on the discharge. Check your invites on Waypoint.
The Antitype
Banned
Haven't played since before the latest update. Is the Reach GL as awesome as it was in Reach?
Not me, because it took them until the week before to announce the venue AND the fact its over 16s only.
I attended the EU HCS Finals with my eldest Daughter (13) she had a fantastic time and we had a very enjoyable weekend down in Leicester, attendance was great (you couldn't have fitted any more people in) and we enjoyed sitting with the Pulse guys and she was made up to meet Kimbo too.
We were toying with heading down to London, but the lack of venue made me nervous, hell they've tweeted obscure shit like "The tube will cost £3 to the venue" in the past couple of weeks, but they've been strange about saying where exactly it was, so I've not booked trains/hotels.
Of course now they've announced it so late in the day train and hotel prices are expensive (also because its Valentines weekend!) and they've also revealed its over 16s only, which rules out my daughter.
Your not going to get much support for things when they're organised this badly, no matter how good the venue is and when they put a bar on younger ages attending (no unaccompanied U16s I can get) but the god damn ticketing site even shows a small child!
YourExWife
Member
Tashi doin' his best to ruin Halo...
Yep, gotta echo the disappointment in 343 for having HWC at fucking Burbank again.
They are not even trying at this point. Don't be surprised if we have to watch 30 minutes of HWC 2016 five times, since they can't put an ounce of effort into getting other videos or filling time with an analyst desk. Also expect audio problems, its 343's cup of tea.
edit:
They are not even trying at this point. Don't be surprised if we have to watch 30 minutes of HWC 2016 five times, since they can't put an ounce of effort into getting other videos or filling time with an analyst desk. Also expect audio problems, its 343's cup of tea.
edit:
