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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

Masterz1337

Neo Member
The arguments over ADS are so bullshit.

Fair enough if you dislike the aesthetics of smart scope. However, if you're arguing for the removal of smart scope on gameplay grounds it's bullshit. It has negligible effect on gameplay.

Not sure what game you've been playing, but smart scope makes more changes to player magnetism and bullet deviation than all past halo games that had zoom on precision weapons. Never mind the visual changes which do limit visibility (although I personally am not bothered by that) but also do have a longer time to zoom, also mostly negligible but still a factor on certain guns and attachments.

But even outside of that, you have some weapons who's usefulness has been reduced to encourage ADSing like the needler and plasma pistol.

Then you have others which provide alternate fire modes (caster, rocket, hydra).

Then you have weapons like the boltshot and suppressor who when fired appear to be the same, but with more homing.

And finally you have the automatics who get what feels like a 2x accuracy bonus and makes them into viable longer range weapons.

So it does change gameplay for literally every gun in the game. Alternate fire may not be a bad thing, and isn't even necessarily new. But the automatics and the homing properties on certain guns has a huge impact on the game, even if it's largely invisible to you since in a firefight it's unlikely you will ever notice someone ADSing you since they will always be doing it from range. Plus by the time you react to them they will often be on the move and out of ADS.

Let's say that they remove sprint/spartan charge in h6 and increase bms would h2/3 arena maps work again in h6 with few/minor tweaks?

Asking cause i can't stand h5 maps anymore especially the post launch maps

Think about it, we might not get h3 anniversary which i really don't care about but having all the good h2/3 maps "remastered" for h6 would be fucking awesome and it would be easy to implement too i guess

Edit: Also it would be a good selling point for people that left halo to come back

The whole idea of increasing the BMS as a way to increase the speed of the game will only present new problems. We have the bungie games, and H4 (pre patch) which all used the same movement speeds but had widely different pacing. While FOV changes are a large part of that as well as the inclusion of sprint in the later 2, there are still many ways they can increase the speed of the game, and in fact already have. TTK, animation speeds, size of maps, weapon learning curves (the h1 pistol may have the highest ttk, but also the hardest utility weapon to get a perfect kill with) all play a factor in the perceived speed of the game.

Changing the base player speed just spells tons of issues. In campaign, all AI targeting has to be adjusted. In multiplayer vehicle speeds need to all be adjusted. Splash damage on every explosive needs to be changed to compensate for the fact players can move away from them faster. Then you have to account for the way FOV interacts with it. If the game has a high BMS but low fov, things will be flying across your screen, if the fov is high with high movement speed, the ability to hit things like the head increases.

Halo up until H4's patch has always had the player moving at the same base rate (I can double check the numbers tomorrow when I am home, as while base speeds may be the same there could be small changes elsewhere that effect it) and changing the core speed of movement in the game will undoubtedly send ripples through it. It's one of those things that is probably better left untouched and worked around, as everything in previous games used it as a foundation as to how everything else should work.

You see it already in H5's campaign with crazy AI weapon tracking to compensate for the new base player speed, sprint, thrusters etc. In fact they already had to backpedal on their changes to it with that first H5 SP patch so that players could spend more time dodging fire and navigating environments instead of playing pop and shoot. .
 

Gwyn

Member
The whole idea of increasing the BMS as a way to increase the speed of the game will only present new problems. We have the bungie games, and H4 (pre patch) which all used the same movement speeds but had widely different pacing. While FOV changes are a large part of that as well as the inclusion of sprint in the later 2, there are still many ways they can increase the speed of the game, and in fact already have. TTK, animation speeds, size of maps, weapon learning curves (the h1 pistol may have the highest ttk, but also the hardest utility weapon to get a perfect kill with) all play a factor in the perceived speed of the game.

Changing the base player speed just spells tons of issues. In campaign, all AI targeting has to be adjusted. In multiplayer vehicle speeds need to all be adjusted. Splash damage on every explosive needs to be changed to compensate for the fact players can move away from them faster. Then you have to account for the way FOV interacts with it. If the game has a high BMS but low fov, things will be flying across your screen, if the fov is high with high movement speed, the ability to hit things like the head increases.

Halo up until H4's patch has always had the player moving at the same base rate (I can double check the numbers tomorrow when I am home, as while base speeds may be the same there could be small changes elsewhere that effect it) and changing the core speed of movement in the game will undoubtedly send ripples through it. It's one of those things that is probably better left untouched and worked around, as everything in previous games used it as a foundation as to how everything else should work.

You see it already in H5's campaign with crazy AI weapon tracking to compensate for the new base player speed, sprint, thrusters etc. In fact they already had to backpedal on their changes to it with that first H5 SP patch so that players could spend more time dodging fire and navigating environments instead of playing pop and shoot. .

Nice post

Tbh i didn't really think about it that much

My main point was that since MCC was a disaster and all the people that want MCC fixed which won't happen at this point so why not bring back some good maps+game modes from old halo games as long as they go back to a more simplified/classic gameplay in h6
 

Trup1aya

Member
The whole idea of increasing the BMS as a way to increase the speed of the game will only present new problems. We have the bungie games, and H4 (pre patch) which all used the same movement speeds but had widely different pacing. While FOV changes are a large part of that as well as the inclusion of sprint in the later 2, there are still many ways they can increase the speed of the game, and in fact already have. TTK, animation speeds, size of maps, weapon learning curves (the h1 pistol may have the highest ttk, but also the hardest utility weapon to get a perfect kill with) all play a factor in the perceived speed of the game.

Changing the base player speed just spells tons of issues. In campaign, all AI targeting has to be adjusted. In multiplayer vehicle speeds need to all be adjusted. Splash damage on every explosive needs to be changed to compensate for the fact players can move away from them faster. Then you have to account for the way FOV interacts with it. If the game has a high BMS but low fov, things will be flying across your screen, if the fov is high with high movement speed, the ability to hit things like the head increases.

Halo up until H4's patch has always had the player moving at the same base rate (I can double check the numbers tomorrow when I am home, as while base speeds may be the same there could be small changes elsewhere that effect it) and changing the core speed of movement in the game will undoubtedly send ripples through it. It's one of those things that is probably better left untouched and worked around, as everything in previous games used it as a foundation as to how everything else should work.

You see it already in H5's campaign with crazy AI weapon tracking to compensate for the new base player speed, sprint, thrusters etc. In fact they already had to backpedal on their changes to it with that first H5 SP patch so that players could spend more time dodging fire and navigating environments instead of playing pop and shoot. .

There's no need to do all of that.

People just want a playlist that nixes sprint, and ups the base movement speed to 110%. Custom games already provide this functionality, and with some tweaks to the jump height, the existing maps work perfectly. Bungie's halo's also had playlist that bumped up the BMS.

All of the potential FOV issues, damage effects and tracking issues are nullified by the fact that the games systems are already designed for players to be running at sprint speed. The proposed new BMS doesnt exceed sprint speed, So things work fine
 

Trup1aya

Member
Imagine how bad the servers would be if halo 5 was popular.

Just played a game where reqs didn't become available until the last 2min of the game...I think I had more games without req that with them this weekend.

Edit: just had another where only select memebers of my team had reqs (I wasn't one of them) but the entire enemy team had them.
 
Wasnt the purpose of dedicated servers were to enable the best online expeirence?

.... really annoyed that the flagship title for xbox isnt reliable...
 

Detective

Member
Wasnt the purpose of dedicated servers were to enable the best online expeirence?

.... really annoyed that the flagship title for xbox isnt reliable...

I took FUNKNOWN advice and moved to other games.

Never felt better a long time. am enjoying my playing time and relaxing, Which I never felt since Halo 5 came out. Which is my own fault for sticking with it only.

Thank you FUNKNOWN :)
 
I took FUNKNOWN advice and moved to other games.

Never felt better a long time. am enjoying my playing time and relaxing, Which I never felt since Halo 5 came out. Which is my own fault for sticking with it only.

Thank you FUNKNOWN :)

Destiny2/RDR2 need to hurry the fk up.
 

mo60

Member
Haven't experienced the req loading issue in the last day or two. I did have to deal with a ton of profile sync errors yesterday while at some tournament.
 
I took FUNKNOWN advice and moved to other games.

Never felt better a long time. am enjoying my playing time and relaxing, Which I never felt since Halo 5 came out. Which is my own fault for sticking with it only.

Thank you FUNKNOWN :)
The great thing about playing other games is that it makes Halo 5 less frustrating in the long run lol. I play a few games of H5, then when I've had enough of playing against stacked teams etc., I go play something else instead of forcing myself to overcome the frustrations. TMCC is great for that too as a palette cleanser. Play some Team Slayer (basically just another Halo 3 playlist), bounce around to some BTB (Halo 3 again), and maybe dabble in some other playlists to clear my mind.

Overwatch has essentially taken the throne as my go-to FPS these days with Halo (H5 and TMCC) and Gears as my secondaries.
I've been playing MCC, pretty fun besides brain dead teammates.
If you go in with the right mindset, it's still great to play all Halo games. Smash Wii U doesn't make Smash 64 or Melee any worse, for example. So if you appreciate the games for what they are while we continue getting good Halo multiplayer experiences going forward, all* is LUV.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Playing bad kids in CTF BTB =

8bafdcd4-2351-499d-9b0a-26e2b4d49ee9_Thumbnail.PNG
 
If you go in with the right mindset, it's still great to play all Halo games. Smash Wii U doesn't make Smash 64 or Melee any worse, for example. So if you appreciate the games for what they are while we continue getting good Halo multiplayer experiences going forward, all* is LUV.
I've been going back and forth between MCC and Halo 5, I have fun in all of the games say for Halo 4 or Halo3 Valhalla. Halo 3 Valhalla sucks.
 
Lol holding on to that minuscule ounce of hope.... Halo five has never played better it's best to prepare yourself mentally and move on. Sprint isn't going anywhere, get over it

Yeah Halo 5 has never played better than Halo 5. You're correct.

343/Microsoft gives me no hope for this franchise anyways. Was just pointing out that Tom was meaning it in jest, not outright dismissing it.

I've been going back and forth between MCC and Halo 5, I have fun in all of the games say for Halo 4 or Halo3 Valhalla. Halo 3 Valhalla sucks.

I remember Valhalla shotty snipers was pretty fun at least lol
 

Velikost

Member
Why's the REQ system in this game always having issues? Hopped into a Warzone firefight match and I can't do shit. I'm running around the 5th wave with an AR and pistol.

The REQ section always breaks on the HaloWaypoint site for me as well.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Had some good games with Zoso and Ex, just need 10 more buckle ups now.

We're sitting at 99 people in the SC too so if you know anyone who plays might as well invite them to fill it up again.
 
Wow... Buckle up went from last on her list to done in 2 days!
No need to camp at the Noctus base with snipes anymore.

Nice job fellas!
 

Trup1aya

Member
Why's the REQ system in this game always having issues? Hopped into a Warzone firefight match and I can't do shit. I'm running around the 5th wave with an AR and pistol.

The REQ section always breaks on the HaloWaypoint site for me as well.

It's been fucked all weekend,
 

jem0208

Member
Not sure what game you've been playing, but smart scope makes more changes to player magnetism and bullet deviation than all past halo games that had zoom on precision weapons. Never mind the visual changes which do limit visibility (although I personally am not bothered by that) but also do have a longer time to zoom, also mostly negligible but still a factor on certain guns and attachments.

But even outside of that, you have some weapons who's usefulness has been reduced to encourage ADSing like the needler and plasma pistol.

Then you have others which provide alternate fire modes (caster, rocket, hydra).

Then you have weapons like the boltshot and suppressor who when fired appear to be the same, but with more homing.

And finally you have the automatics who get what feels like a 2x accuracy bonus and makes them into viable longer range weapons.

So it does change gameplay for literally every gun in the game. Alternate fire may not be a bad thing, and isn't even necessarily new. But the automatics and the homing properties on certain guns has a huge impact on the game, even if it's largely invisible to you since in a firefight it's unlikely you will ever notice someone ADSing you since they will always be doing it from range. Plus by the time you react to them they will often be on the move and out of ADS.

As I've said before, smartscope essentially means autos have a slightly increased effective range.

However, even that has a minimal real effect on how H5 plays (by that I mean influencing how an encounter or match would turn out). The benefits of that slight range increase are usually present only if you catch the enemy unawares due to descope. In a situation where you were able to get a kill at mid to long range with an auto you'd just as easily be able to with a precision weapon assuming at least a reasonable competence at aiming. The outcome is exactly the same. The match will play effectively in the same way. If you attempt to engage someone head on with an auto at mid to long range smartscope becomes irrelevant because you'll be knocked out of it immediately.

At lower skill levels it could be argued that smartscope has more of an effect due to the decreased aiming skill, however, is that actually a problem?


So basically all of what you said effectively amounts to fuck all in terms of real effects on how the game plays for the majority of players. Smartscope is a non-issue in gameplay terms. Frankly, the only reason people complain about it is because of the aesthetics change. Had they kept classic scope and just added zoom to autos hardly anyone would care.


All of that said, I want classic scope back for H6.




Also, the needler and plasma pistol are perfectly usable outside of scope.
 
As I've said before, smartscope essentially means autos have a slightly increased effective range.

However, even that has a minimal real effect on how H5 plays (by that I mean influencing how an encounter or match would turn out). The benefits of that slight range increase are usually present only if you catch the enemy unawares due to descope. In a situation where you were able to get a kill at mid to long range with an auto you'd just as easily be able to with a precision weapon assuming at least a reasonable competence at aiming. The outcome is exactly the same. The match will play effectively in the same way. If you attempt to engage someone head on with an auto at mid to long range smartscope becomes irrelevant because you'll be knocked out of it immediately.

At lower skill levels it could be argued that smartscope has more of an effect due to the decreased aiming skill, however, is that actually a problem?


So basically all of what you said effectively amounts to fuck all in terms of real effects on how the game plays for the majority of players. Smartscope is a non-issue in gameplay terms. Frankly, the only reason people complain about it is because of the aesthetics change. Had they kept classic scope and just added zoom to autos hardly anyone would care.


All of that said, I want classic scope back for H6.




Also, the needler and plasma pistol are perfectly usable outside of scope.

The tracking and range for both the needler and plasma pistol are vastly better when scoped.
 

Trup1aya

Member
As I've said before, smartscope essentially means autos have a slightly increased effective range.

However, even that has a minimal real effect on how H5 plays (by that I mean influencing how an encounter or match would turn out). The benefits of that slight range increase are usually present only if you catch the enemy unawares due to descope. In a situation where you were able to get a kill at mid to long range with an auto you'd just as easily be able to with a precision weapon assuming at least a reasonable competence at aiming. The outcome is exactly the same. The match will play effectively in the same way. If you attempt to engage someone head on with an auto at mid to long range smartscope becomes irrelevant because you'll be knocked out of it immediately.

At lower skill levels it could be argued that smartscope has more of an effect due to the decreased aiming skill, however, is that actually a problem?


So basically all of what you said effectively amounts to fuck all in terms of real effects on how the game plays for the majority of players. Smartscope is a non-issue in gameplay terms. Frankly, the only reason people complain about it is because of the aesthetics change. Had they kept classic scope and just added zoom to autos hardly anyone would care.


All of that said, I want classic scope back for H6.




Also, the needler and plasma pistol are perfectly usable outside of scope.

This is objectively and demonstrably false.

At the ranges where scoping an AR is beneficial, an opponent with a precision weapon will have a harder time descoping the AR user. The precision user will be firing at a lower rate of fire, with each miss allowing more time for the AR user to remain scoped. Its also much easier to strafe dodge precision shots in comparison to auto shots (which is damn near impossible due to magnetism).

In short, the AR user will have an easier time landing more shots. And will have an easier time dodging shots and staying scoped. They are also using a gun that has a shorter min TTK.
 

jem0208

Member
This is objectively and demonstrably false.

At the ranges where scoping an AR is beneficial, an opponent with a precision weapon will have a harder time descoping the AR user. The precision user will be firing at a lower rate of fire, with each miss allowing more time for the AR user to remain scoped. Its also much easier to strafe dodge precision shots in comparison to auto shots (which is damn near impossible due to magnetism).

In short, the AR user will have an easier time landing more shots. And will have an easier time dodging shots and staying scoped. They are also using a gun that has a shorter min TTK.

Anyone with a competent aim will beat an AR with a precision weapon at mid to long range. How often do you actually rescope mid firefight?

ARs are definitely OP, but not because of smartscope.
 
yeah i ended up playing that a lot on my last log in.

Love the new maps. Really enjoyed it too.

Anyone with a competent aim will beat an AR with a precision weapon at mid to long range. How often do you actually rescope mid firefight?

ARs are definitely OP, but not because of smartscope.

Yeah with a pistol, br or dmr youll get wrecked with an AR. AR is only good short range which i have no problems with. I like that its a good gun.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Anyone with a competent aim will beat an AR with a precision weapon at mid to long range. How often do you actually rescope mid firefight?

ARs are definitely OP, but not because of smartscope.

Anyone who can aim competently with a precision weapon, can aim competently with a AR.

There is a point at which the precision weapon will win out, but thanks to the scope on the AR that distance is extended beyond where it should be.

Obviously we arent talking about long range gun battles here.

I rescope midgunfight all the time, depending on whether or not I'm successfully making the opponent miss. If I'm happen to be using an AR v a precison, it would be silly not to take advantage of the additional accuracy and increase my chances at a headshot multiplier.

The implementation of smart scope is one of several reasons the AR is OP.
 
Anyone who can aim competently with a precision weapon, can aim competently with a AR.

There is a point at which the precision weapon will win out, but thanks to the scope on the AR that distance is extended beyond where it should be.

Obviously we arent talking about long range gun battles here.

I rescope midgunfight all the time, depending on whether or not I'm successfully making the opponent miss. If I'm happen to be using an AR v a precison, it would be silly not to take advantage of the additional accuracy and increase my chances at a headshot multiplier.

The implementation of smart scope is one of several reasons the AR is OP.

The scope shouldnt change the actual range of it. Doesnt really matter if theres a scope if the range isnt improved by using it.
 

Trup1aya

Member
The scope shouldnt change the actual range of it. Doesnt really matter if theres a scope if the range isnt improved by using it.

What do you mean the range isnt improved?

The spread decreases when you scoped in. Also the red reticle range (RRR) moves further out. Both of these things make the gun more effective at range.

The unscoped AR RRR is 33m v the magnums 36m.
The scopes AR RRR is 42m v the magnums 57m

Theres way too much overlap. If an AR user has a decent strafe, its far to easy to over come a pistol user.
 
What do you mean the range isnt improved?

The spread decreases when you scoped in. Also the red reticle range (RRR) moves further out. Both of these things make the gun more effective at range.

The unscoped AR RRR is 33m v the magnums 36m.
The scopes AR RRR is 42m v the magnums 57m

Theres way too much overlap. If an AR user has a decent strafe, its far to easy to over come a pistol user.

I get what you are saying Tru, but I think they are talking about the new ADS purely from its visual affects on gameplay, not the ADS balance implementation. The range buff and RRR has nothing to do with the visual impact of ADS itself, but 343 designed it to function differently.

Also, I'll leave this here:
https://youtu.be/dNU_MEYI4D8
 

Trup1aya

Member
I get what you are saying Tru, but I think they are talking about the new ADS purely from its visual affects on gameplay, not the ADS balance implementation. The range buff and RRR has nothing to do with the visual ADS itself, but 343 designed it to function differently.

Also, I'll leave this here:
https://youtu.be/dNU_MEYI4D8

Yeah, but you can't really talk about ads without talking about how the IMPLEMENTATION has effected gameplay.

If it was purely a visual thing, if just say its ugly, but functionally sound. But these guys are arguing that the implementation had a negligible impact on gameplay, but that is simply untrue.

If there's no scope on the AR, we aren't having to discuss decreases in spread and increases in rrr. If it were just a scope, it wouldnt be a huge deal.
 
Yeah, but you can't really talk about ads without talking about how the IMPLEMENTATION has effected gameplay.

If it was purely a visual thing, if just say its ugly, but functionally sound. But these guys are arguing that the implementation had a negligible impact on gameplay, but that is simply untrue.

If there's no scope on the AR, we aren't having to discuss decreases in spread and increases in rrr. If it were just a scope, it wouldnt be a huge deal.

I havent been keeping up on how it works, but my understanding was that it was supposed to be just a visual thing for most guns. If it isnt, thats stupid.
 
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