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[Bossniak]

Halo PC is superior version. Once you learn to lead your good to go. Leading melee > Lunge.

I'll just throw this in here.
http://vimeo.com/14788962

 

[Sibylus]

I imagine some of the problem is that Halo didn't use hitscan, but actual bullet physics. Is that accurate?

No idea.

I wonder if that was partially due to XBConnect having the luxury of a set platform, whereas Gearbox had to make it work for every PC imaginable.

Gearbox allegedly had to accommodate 56k connections at MS's bidding (staffer or ex-staffer said as much on the GBX forums some years ago). So they don't really hold the blame on that one, they did a good job with what they were given.

 

[The Real Napsta]

I imagine some of the problem is that Halo didn't use hitscan, but actual bullet physics. Is that accurate?

Halo 3 didn't use hitscan either.

I wonder if that was partially due to XBConnect having the luxury of a set platform, whereas Gearbox had to make it work for every PC imaginable.

I think the problem with Halo PC netcode is that they made it so dial up people could play.

 

[GavinGT]

No doubt, and that's a part of why I don't want it. That terrible netcode had a perverse upside

Nah, read the long post from earlier that perfectly describes how the pistol makes the race for the power weapons more balanced. As long as you played Generic mode, where you always spawned with assault rifle and pistol, there was no imbalance. The rocket and sniper were still power weapons, but at least anyone had a chance against them.

The only time I felt the pistol was overpowered was when I was at a tournament watching Darkman decimate players with a pistol as soon as they spawned on Blood Gulch. But that was the best player in the world at the time - against anyone else you would've had a chance to spawn, switch to pistol, fire back, and find cover.

 

[Booshka]

Nah, read the long post from earlier that perfectly describes how the pistol makes the race for the power weapons more balanced. As long as you played Generic mode, where you always spawn with assault rifle and pistol, there was no imbalance. The rocket and sniper were still power weapons, but at least anyone had a chance against them.

The only time I felt the pistol was overpowered was when I was at a tournament watching Darkman decimate players with a pistol as soon as they spawned on Blood Gulch. But that was the best player in the world at the time - against anyone else you would've had a chance to spawn, switch to pistol, fire back, and find cover.

Someone should quote my post for every new page. Darkman dominated because he is one of the best players in Halo CE history, but also, because that gametype was awful, no shields FFA on Blood Gulch with Pistol Starts. He just sat back behind the bases one shotting people right as they spawned, I don't know who thought up that gametype for the Finals, probably one of the dumbest tournaments ever, but also the most famous and epic nonetheless.

 

[Sibylus]

Nah, read the long post from earlier that perfectly describes how the pistol makes the race for the power weapons more balanced. As long as you played Generic mode, where you always spawned with assault rifle and pistol, there was no imbalance. The rocket and sniper were still power weapons, but at least anyone had a chance against them.

The only time I felt the pistol was overpowered was when I was at a tournament watching Darkman decimate players with a pistol as soon as they spawned on Blood Gulch. But that was the best player in the world at the time - against anyone else you would've had a chance to spawn, switch to pistol, fire back, and find cover.

Default was where I spent most of my time in the game. Aside from the spikes in the action provided by power weapons and vehicles, my play experience was overwhelmingly pistol firefights with some grenades thrown in for good measure. I often staved off boredom by using the wider range of the standard weaponry, but it was more than a little wearying because so few even bothered to do the same. And you're ever-conscious of the fact that you're under-equipped, too. But hey, give the other standard weapons a boost and I'd be much less opposed to the pistol as it is, but as shipped, it essentially just marginalized other weaponry and created an atmosphere of monotony.

 

[Scarecrow]

but as shipped, it essentially just marginalized other weaponry and created an atmosphere of monotony.

That's kind of why I don't prefer any of the Halo's multiplayer. Everyone just uses zooming carbine-type weapons. I'd bet 98% of all kills in Halo are due to Pistol, BR, Carbine, or DMR.

 

[CyReN]

I still don't get the Frankie mumbo jumbo crap about how it can't work. How the hell does Perfect Dark on the N64 get ported and added for XBLA with no issues but this game can't? They say there's issues with online but how the crap the XBC work then with people who don't work at MS but the people who make the damn game can't do it? My guess is Reach online stats are getting CoD'd and they are afraid it will be out of the top 3 so the series becomes irreverent. I like Frankie but with some of the stuff he says he sounds like a moron regarding the series. I couldn't believe he said there's going to be three shot kill in the campaign..

 

[Sibylus]

That's kind of why I don't prefer any of the Halo's multiplayer. Everyone just uses zooming carbine-type weapons. I'd bet 98% of all kills in Halo are due to Pistol, BR, Carbine, or DMR.

Mid-range weapons are still overwhelmingly popular, but more weapons tend to be viable in the sequels, and not in a "I'm going to use this to challenge myself against better-armed players" kind of way.

 

[DR3AM]

someone please tell me what the mp deal is.

 

[GloveSlap]

That's kind of why I don't prefer any of the Halo's multiplayer. Everyone just uses zooming carbine-type weapons. I'd bet 98% of all kills in Halo are due to Pistol, BR, Carbine, or DMR.

Luckily for you, Bungie has increased the effectiveness of running at people while using spray and pray automatic weapons in every Halo since the 1st one. That is the reason so many people still prefer the first one.

What the Halo CE pistol does is this: it turns the game into a hybrid of two different types of shooter games. One half is the Call Of Duty type of shooter where you spawn with a great all around precision weapon and you don't have to pick up any guns off the ground if you don't want to. The other half is your Quake style shooter where you really need to pick up the better weapons located throughout the map and it takes more bullets to kill someone than realistic type shooters. Mix those halves together and you have Halo CE, it is a combination that works. It is also a combination that hasn't really been seen since, which is why people still cling to the game and are mad about the lack of multiplayer in the remake.

 

[GodfatherX]

someone please tell me what the mp deal is.

7 maps that are essentially a retro map pack for Reach, you will be playing Reach mp to play these maps

 

[DR3AM]

wtf, kind like a old school map pack for halo reach? ( but for halo ce)

i cant play the old halo with the pistol online?

 

[Booshka]

wtf, kind like a old school map pack for halo reach? ( but for halo ce)

i cant play the old halo with the pistol online?

Welcome to the party.

 

[Apath]

Halo PC is superior version. Once you learn to lead your good to go. Leading melee > Lunge.

I'll just throw this in here.
http://vimeo.com/14788962

Happen to know the first song they're playing in the background?

 

[Brandon F]

Did any of the Library haters ever actually play that level in co-op on legendary? It's fucking fantastic.

One of the most communicative experiences you can have with a friend. Bunkering down with shotguns, calling out MUCH needed ammo drops, planning for positional superiority before every ambush, etc... Similar to a Smash TV gauntlet, the satisfaction of survival and teamwork is unrivaled and unique for that game.

In a lesser scenario(Normal/solo), sure it's a repetitive slog through bland environments, the sort of shit you never even notice on a Legendary co-op run.

No other Halo game has managed to match that experience using the flood since.

 

[Plywood]

Was wondering if any 343i employee could answer my question: Why no Reach MP disc? It seems like a good way to get the other map packs into peoples hands who don't already have them.

-Post right above me about The Library.

This man gets it.

 

[Sibylus]

Did any of the Library haters ever actually play that level in co-op on legendary? It's fucking fantastic.

Everything is better with a friend, especially terrible maps.

Coop doesn't exist on the PC version, so all I had to keep me company was that goddamned lightbulb. And he loves the place.


343 Guilty Spark is still the best Flood level in the series, though H3's Floodgate comes really close. 343GS did have something of a repetition problem (like most of the game), but in terms of atmosphere, setting, foreshadowing, and tension, it's really unmatched. Later Flood levels kinda fall into a routine of throwing the Flood in your face early on and never really building up to the big onslaught effectively. Yeah, you can never recreate the big shock, but it's kinda annoying to see the lack of subtlety that followed.

The Covenant ship that comes sailing in at the end of The Storm might as well have had "FLOOD FLOOD FLOOD" scrawled across its hull.

 

[SpacLock]

Happen to know the first song they're playing in the background?

The Bravery - Honest Mistake.

 

[Kuroyume]

Heh, thanks for the reminder why I like Halo: CE so much more than the sequels.

Those screenshots do nothing but underscore just one part that I like better about CE: less emphasis on vehicles. The warthog was strictly a point A-to-point B thing, and outside of AOTCR, lesser so in TTB, you didn't spend a ton of time in anything else, either.

Thanks, Dax. CE reaffirmed once again.

Yeah, sure, I'm taking the bridge in Halo 2 on foot. Or any other portion that is obviously geared to be a vehicle sequence. Just because I don't think the excessive vehicle gameplay is any fun doesn't mean that playing outside the intended path is any better.

I'd rather play 32 levels of the Library (decidedly underrated) than spend another level on a scorpion or on the back of a warthog in one of the later games.

Exactly. That's one of the biggest problems with the series after the first game. They've focused way too much on the vehicles. I think they felt good that people enjoyed driving the warthog in the first game and ever since then they've gotten carried away with either forcing people to use them or making it so it takes forever to get through a level otherwise. It doesn't help that they've reduced the on foot speed with every sequel. Moving around on Halo Reach is incredibly frustrating because of that.

I would often criticize Halo 3 and Reach for playing like Twisted Metal rather than a shooter because people spend most of the time in multiplayer games just driving around shooting at people instead of confronting them on foot. What's the point of playing an FPS if you're just going to drive around in 3rd person racking up easy kills? It's nowhere near as fun to play Halo in a vehicle.

I still don't get the Frankie mumbo jumbo crap about how it can't work. How the hell does Perfect Dark on the N64 get ported and added for XBLA with no issues but this game can't? They say there's issues with online but how the crap the XBC work then with people who don't work at MS but the people who make the damn game can't do it? My guess is Reach online stats are getting CoD'd and they are afraid it will be out of the top 3 so the series becomes irreverent. I like Frankie but with some of the stuff he says he sounds like a moron regarding the series. I couldn't believe he said there's going to be three shot kill in the campaign..

I didn't like his reasoning for it either. Even if the pistol feels slightly different online compared to LAN at the very least it's still something for people to enjoy. Sure, some folks would complain about it but I'm sure there are many more out there who have never touched Halo: CE multiplayer and have always wanted to at least try it. I wouldn't fucking complain about the pistol feeling slightly different due to lag because I've never gotten the chance to play it. It's so frustrating to see them bother with a remake and then omit the one thing that made Halo such a huge franchise. Most of us can play Halo: CE campaign whenever the hell we want. A nice graphical upgrade is fine but it's kind of pointless. Halo: CE still looks pretty good. Hell, I would have taken a barebones port with online over a graphical upgrade of stuff most of us won't bother to look at like the terminals.

Also, why is this remake connected with Reach at all? Why not just make new maps for Reach instead of making remakes for another game?

 

[clav]

Anyone know if the game will include matchmaking for campaign?

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Exactly. That's one of the biggest problems with the series after the first game. They've focused way too much on the vehicles. I think they felt good that people enjoyed driving the warthog in the first game and ever since then they've gotten carried away with either forcing people to use them or making it so it takes forever to get through a level otherwise. It doesn't help that they've reduced the on foot speed with every sequel. Moving around on Halo Reach is incredibly frustrating because of that.

I would often criticize Halo 3 and Reach for playing like Twisted Metal rather than a shooter because people spend most of the time in multiplayer games just driving around shooting at people instead of confronting them on foot. What's the point of playing an FPS if you're just going to drive around in 3rd person racking up easy kills? It's nowhere near as fun to play Halo in a vehicle.

Only too true. For me, any FPS game that allows players to dominate with a vehicle can no longer be considered an FPS. Vehicles should compliment FPS combat and not be an alternative way to rack up easy and massive amounts of kills.

 

[CrazedArabMan]

I played Halo 3 tonight. It was glorious. I would pay an outrageous amount of money for Halo 3 with Reach's netcode. Your post has inspired me to dig out my campaign disc and start a fresh legendary run tomorrow (which will end at Cortana). My favorite game of the generation by a very wide margin.

Really? I hate Reach's netcode for campaign and firefight. My group of friends have trouble playing campaign or firefight because there is always some sort of lag or button delay in the game and it really makes it un-fun. Halo 3 and ODST firefight on the other hand always works great, we can play a game of FF or campaign with little to no lag or no button delay at all, it's great!!! Not to mention Halo 3's campaign was so much fun with the large scale vehicle battles, something Reach failed to really capture.

 

[soldat7]

Was wondering if any 343i employee could answer my question: Why no Reach MP disc? It seems like a good way to get the other map packs into peoples hands who don't already have them.

Because MS would rather you buy the full game of Reach.

 

[Sibylus]

Vehicles have always been one of Halo's strongest and best elements for me, some of my most cherished memories of CE were from the driver's seat of Warthog, Scorpion, and Banshee. In my view, the Scarab encounters and mass Tank assaults of Halo 3 were the peak for ground vehicles. The Saber dogfighting and Falcon island-hopping of Reach were the peak for "airborne" vehicles. Between those two games, it's a vehicle paradise.

Anyone know if the game will include matchmaking for campaign?

Matchmaking to find one other person seems like it'd be overkill.

 

[clav]

Vehicles have always been one of Halo's strongest and best elements for me, some of my most cherished memories of CE were from the driver's seat of Warthog, Scorpion, and Banshee. In my view, the Scarab encounters and mass Tank assaults of Halo 3 were the peak for ground vehicles. The Saber dogfighting and Falcon island-hopping of Reach were the peak for "airborne" vehicles. Between those two games, it's a vehicle paradise.


Matchmaking to find one other person seems like it'd be overkill.

I don't think anyone I know will be buying the anniversary edition sadly.

Trying to see if there's any incentive now because I'm considering it as a bargain bin purchase.

 

[soldat7]

I don't think anyone I know will be buying the anniversary edition sadly.

Trying to see if there's any incentive now because I'm considering it as a bargain bin purchase.

Play with a GAFer?

 

[Plywood]

Because MS would rather you buy the full game of Reach.

They didn't do that with ODST.

 

[goldenpp72]

They didn't do that with ODST.

ODST also was a small expansion game they charged 60 dollars for.

 

[Kibbles]

Wow they really need to change the AR Sound. I rewatched the trailer and the AR sounds like the Halo 2 SMGs. Halo 1's AR sounded much more powerful.

 

[feel]

Was wondering if any 343i employee could answer my question: Why no Reach MP disc? It seems like a good way to get the other map packs into peoples hands who don't already have them.

This man gets it.

Because there will be new Reach dlc after Anniversary comes out.

 

[AZ Greg]

Will rent for a legendary co-op run online with some buddies.

CE MP over XBL not being there is such a stupid move.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Actually HaloGAF loves Halo 3, most of the people in this thread are old Halo fans that haven't liked Halo since the first one, maybe the second. HaloGAF loves H3 though, I don't know why, but they do.

Just to represent, I am a part of HaloGAF (at least I'd like to think so), and H3 is my least favorite in the Halo series by far.

Because there will be new Reach dlc after Anniversary comes out.

You think there will be DLC after CEA for Reach? With H4 coming out in 2012, I doubt it personally.

 

[Photolysis]

I imagine some of the problem is that Halo didn't use hitscan, but actual bullet physics. Is that accurate?

The main problem with Halo PC's netcode is

1) No client trust (included in H3 onwards). Instead of the host accepting a client saying "Hey host, I shot this guy", the host replies "No you didn't, he wasn't there", so your bullet passes through with no damage.

Halo 2 had this exact same problem off host, as anyone who tried to snipe across Coagulation could tell you.

2) No prediction (included in H2 onwards). A major reason why Halo games appear smooth is because of tricks like these. Without it you get the kinds of problems seen in Halo PC, where a spinning warthog teleports around instead of flying in a smooth trajectory.

To give Gearbox some credit here, they had the difficult job of having to build an entirely new asynchronous networking model from scratch and integrating it into an engine that wasn't really designed for it. And core stuff like that is usually done early on in development, instead of when porting a finished product years later.

If they had to get it working on 56K then that would be another disadvantage, because the game was originally designed for a LAN. Not very helpful when you have bandwidth spikes (such as the aforementioned vehicle situations).

For CEA, the game already has the fundamentals in place; multiplayer uses lockstep, the same model that's used in H3 and Reach's co-op/Firefight netcode. It's much more simple than the MP netcode and hasn't undergone that much revision over the years.

I hate Reach's netcode for campaign and firefight. My group of friends have trouble playing campaign or firefight because there is always some sort of lag or button delay in the game

Hah, it's always funny to read statements like these because the changes were pretty minimal. I've seen people claim ODST was better than H3's netcode and vice versa too (they were the exact same thing)

Input latency is caused by the latency of a player's connection, that's nothing to do with Reach. As for lag, Reach actually sends less data because of the optimisations. Either way, it's a problem with at least one connection not Reach.

 

[Gravijah]

The Bravery - Honest Mistake.

RIP MVP

 

[nephilimdj]

I played some Halo PC as well. Frankly, there was less noticeable lag playing the XBox version over XBConnect and being on the peer end. I couldn't enjoy it at all on PC. I'd only assume 343 could do a much better job than Gearbox did.

Are you sure that wasn't because of console anti-lag coding tricking you?
I found plenty of 30-50ping games on Halo PC back in the day, was a dream.

 

[Photolysis]

Are you sure that wasn't because of console anti-lag coding tricking you?

Halo 1 didn't have any.

 

[szaromir]

Any gameplay videos yet? Any live stage demos on Gamespot/Gametrailers/IGN planned?
Finally, is the remake totally Monkey Island style, ie. remake mode with new graphics and new music and classic mode with old graphics and old music? Or is it going to have the rerecorded music only?

 

[broony]

Where do people think the firefight map will be set, Assault on the control room terraces?

 

[JonCha]

Any gameplay videos yet? Any live stage demos on Gamespot/Gametrailers/IGN planned?
Finally, is the remake totally Monkey Island style, ie. remake mode with new graphics and new music and classic mode with old graphics and old music? Or is it going to have the rerecorded music only?

Voiceovers are the same, and the music might be redone. I think.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Voiceovers are the same, and the music might be redone. I think.

All audio is the same, but re-recorded at Skywalker Sound.

 

[jgminto]

If the original Reach multiplayer isn't included in the game it wont really affect me but I would prefer it to be a complete package. I already own Reach but I would rather not pull it out just for the 7 multiplayer maps because god knows after this comes out I will never return to Reach for the campaign.

 

[Magni]

Wait, what? Anniversary doesn't have all the Reach maps on a second disk? Fuck that

 

[Slightly Live]

If you get Anniversary and own Reach, you'll be able to transfer the new maps to play with your Reach disk. Not the same thing but pretty handy.

 

[jgminto]

If you get Anniversary and own Reach, you'll be able to transfer the new maps to play with your Reach disk. Not the same thing but pretty handy.

Not really the point.

 

[PooBone]

Both. Outside of two levels, the single player was terrible. Much of the "epic" action took place in cutscenes. It was bookended by three terrible levels with Sierra 117 in the front and Cortana and Halo at the end. The storyline was completely ruined with the voice over interrupting quasi-cutscenes with Cortana and Gravemind.

The multiplayer was just bland and boring. Assault rifle starts ruined half the playlists. The BR was completely random with its terrible hit detection due to spread and the poor netcode. The maps were atrocious and playlist management was an embarrassment.

Halo: Combat Evolved didn't have the multiplayer issues simply because it was played at LANs mostly. But its single player was wrapped in this mysterious minimalist story that slowly unfolded over the course of the game. There was a surreal mystery to the entire campaign. It was somewhat present in Halo 2, especially during the Arbiter levels. But it's completely non-existent in Halo 3.

The enemy encounters, while more mundane and "scripted" in Halo exhibited more creativity than anything in Halo 3. Encounters like in Two Betrayals and the dynamic battles between the flood and Covenant are all missing in subsequent sequels. It's more than a nostalgia trip down memory lane. Halo is still one of the tightest designed first person shooters on consoles. It appears Bungie got caught up in their hype too much entering Halo 3's devleopement.

I agree with this. However I didn't hate Halo 3, and in fact I thought it was better than Halo 2. While Halo 2 murders it in terms of atmosphere, the levels were so small, the AI was so dumb, and the gameplay was just plain bad enough to make it a worse game in my eyes. Halo 3 returned to the sandbox and some of those Scarab fights were highlights in the series.

But yeah, those two levels on the Ark really were the only real high point of the campaign.

 

[The Librarian]

Same. Sierra 117 on through to The Covenant is one steadily building crescendo. There are so many utterly brilliant encounters...the dam at the end of Sierra, the Brute pack hallway fight on Crows Nest, the massive Chopper/Wraith brawl in Tsavo, the epic vehicular brawl on the Storm capped by the Scarab stomping in, every goddamn minute of The Ark and The Covenant. The Halo 3 campaign is packed to the gills with pitch perfect encounters. I think it's the best in the series by a very wide margin. It's not even close.

The first game is incredible, but Bungie added and refined so much as the series went on.

Yup. Halo 3's encounters are leagues ahead of those in Halo 1.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Where do people think the firefight map will be set, Assault on the control room terraces?

There's so many places that could make a great Firefight map where great battles took place in the original Halo: CE...My guesses...

- The beach of Silent Cartographer
- The first area of Truth & Reconciliation
- A number of battlefields from Assault on the Control Room/Two Betrayals would qualify

 

[PooBone]

Could someone clarify this for me?

So the multiplayer that comes with this anniversary edition is Halo Reach and the 7 maps? It doesn't come with the Halo Reach DLC map packs?

If that's so, what a terrible decision. I hope 343i decides to add those map packs in. This is looking to be a bargain bin purchase for me.

It's a single disk with the campaign and the multiplayer. The multiplayer is Reach's multiplayer with these 7 maps only, no others. You also get a download code to download the 7 maps like a map pack for Halo Reach's disc.

Unsure why you think it's a terrible decision?

 

[jgminto]

There's so many places that could make a great Firefight map where great battles took place in the original Halo: CE...My guesses...

- The beach of Silent Cartographer
- The first area of Truth & Reconciliation
- A number of battlefields from Assault on the Control Room/Two Betrayals would qualify

The dropship areas on "Halo"