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[HeWhoWalks]

I can't help but feel we are due a crash and the only company that will escape unscathed is Nintendo.

Oh, there’s a crash coming alright, but only the green colored vehicle will be involved.

 

[FrankWza]

Daddy's going out to get some milk!

If the GRs are honest with themselves I think they wish that would be the case

 

[Thief1987]

While not great, surely the people choosing the direction and style of the games are salaried, not temp staff, so the issues run a lot deeper than this.

People who are choosing direction and style can't make the game on their own.

 

[SlimySnake]

Games industry sounds like a shitshow. Who would sign up for working in this industry? If you’re really passionate about games you’re better off making an indie in your free time like Stardew Valley guy or Derek Yu. AAA industry is all blue hairs making cappuccinos and getting laid off.

I have been convinced for a while that everyone in their 30s left the industry which led to newbies taking over and making some of the blandest and boring games ive had the misfortune to play in the half a decade or so.

This includes previously great studios like ND, GG, Rockstar, Bioware and even CD Project. The game design especially has taken a step back when it shouldve only been getting better. Ubisoft studios have forgotten how to make fun open world games. Avatar, Mirage and Outlaws are just bland and boring. The valhalla team made Black Flags in 2013. the same studio. WTF happened? lack of talent.

People who actually designed those great PS360 era games are long gone. The only ones signing up are young college grads who have no idea how to make great games.

 

[A.Romero]

Isn't that approach the most common one in the industry?

I don't think big dev companies can keep 400 developers hired after release.

Also less relevant when they actually outsource to smaller companies parts of development.

 

[Bkdk]

Just excuses, they just sucked. MS bought a lot of studios recently, many of them have teams working together for years, a lot of them are probably get a huge jump in overall compensation since MS bought them, yet their current string of releases are far worse than halo infinite.

 

[NickFire]

But Microsoft is worth $3 Trillion dollars! Like......what's the point in being that rich, if you can't pay full benefits to some of these workers?



But clearly because they are contractors, they are only allowed to work there for 18 months at a time. That's a horrible business strategy.

I think its a horrible way to make games too. It takes the soul right out of the project IMO.

 

[jakinov]

Contractors are not laid off their contracts simply end. Contractors should know their job is temporary because that’s exactly what they signed up for. There's often no path to be an employee because the reason companies hire contractors to begin with is to avoid increasing permanent head count for short term goals.

it sounds a lot more that the business is being mismanaged at the studio level. Why are contractors working in silos and doing such critical work that when they are done it adversely affects the project? From all these contractors complaints over the years sounds like a lack of knowledge sharing and assigning the wrong type of work to these contractors. Employees should be the ones architecting most of the systems. If specialized contractors are used, employees should still be in the loop of what decisions are made. Contractors should always have a net-positive effect and if you are finding that having them on your term hinders your development to the point that it doesn't, then the team should not request contractors for their team.

Microsoft can probably improve their policy so that you can keep contractors that perform well longer and without arbitrary breaks. But with everything that came out it sounds a lot more like 343 trying to find an excuse for the poor management. How can you blame the addition of elected helping hands for your inability to deliver when you already have an above-average number of employees?

 

[StereoVsn]

Contractors are not laid off their contracts simply end. Contractors should know their job is temporary because that’s exactly what they signed up for. There's often no path to be an employee because the reason companies hire contractors to begin with is to avoid increasing permanent head count for short term goals.

it sounds a lot more that the business is being mismanaged at the studio level. Why are contractors working in silos and doing such critical work that when they are done it adversely affects the project? From all these contractors complaints over the years sounds like a lack of knowledge sharing and assigning the wrong type of work to these contractors. Employees should be the ones architecting most of the systems. If specialized contractors are used, employees should still be in the loop of what decisions are made. Contractors should always have a net-positive effect and if you are finding that having them on your term hinders your development to the point that it doesn't, then the team should not request contractors for their team.

Microsoft can probably improve their policy so that you can keep contractors that perform well longer and without arbitrary breaks. But with everything that came out it sounds a lot more like 343 trying to find an excuse for the poor management. How can you blame the addition of elected helping hands for your inability to deliver when you already have an above-average number of employees?

18 months is MS policy from long ago due to Washington State laws I believe. They don’t want to pay benefits, hence 18 months.

So the whole mismanagement went from top down in their existing corpo policies. However it’s one thing when contractor is doing widgets for Office or UI for Azure and such, although there are issues there as well.

But it’s another thing when contractors are people who are working on the engine, tools and so on. And since they know they are gone in 18 months it’s not like they will make an effort at documentation or onboarding other folks.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Halo is about an astronaut with a gun, that’s it.

 

[jakinov]

18 months is MS policy from long ago due to Washington State laws I believe. They don’t want to pay benefits, hence 18 months.

So the whole mismanagement went from top down in their existing corpo policies. However it’s one thing when contractor is doing widgets for Office or UI for Azure and such, although there are issues there as well.

But it’s another thing when contractors are people who are working on the engine, tools and so on. And since they know they are gone in 18 months it’s not like they will make an effort at documentation or onboarding other folks.

I don't see the problem with contractors working on the engine and tools. Best practice for development is that the actual technical details should be planned & documented by staff or at least done by the contractor, and then reviewed before they actually start implementing. Contractors are not going to say no to you scheduling knowledge transfers and there should be people reviewing code before it gets merged. Contractors shouldn't be refusing to write documentation, doing KTs or onboarding especially if it's in their contract.

Companies use contractors for business critical tasks all the time and they don't have problems. Like I said on my other post if having a contractor on your team does not lead to a net positive benefit, then don't have a contractor. It's not like it's a secret that these people are there temporarily and you have no control on what they do.

 

[TransTrender]

Oh boy, I wonder if they'll push this on Activision.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I’ve said this many times the past month. Contract people in general don’t really give a shit. They’ll do enough to get the job done and paid but by the time the project is over they are already probably in their next gig unless their contract job involves still being around at launch.

Seen it myself at work (not gaming related). Contract guys bolt for the door at 5pm and some have no problem even telling you what kind of jobs are lined up next as they spill the beans what their recruiter told them when the contract is up. There’s still a couple months to go and they are already itching for the door. Theyve already lost interest here at the office.

Don’t get me wrong, some put in good work.

But end of the day, it still is on the employee to work hard or not really care. I did my share of dumpy jobs in school where some I made minimum wage which was like $6/hr. I always put in good effort even making more product in the machines than the unionized guys. I knew these were short term stints where some were 3 month summer jobs but I still put in my best effort when I could had coasted knowing the shop got a student subsidy so they wouldn’t give a shit if I wasted time.

Working hard for an employer who clearly doesn't give a shit about you seems counterproductive.

Loyalty is a two way street. Want people to care? Don't treat them like disposable cogs.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Lol at former QA tester saying "ex dev here".

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Lol at former QA tester saying "ex dev here".

Better than been a 'writer' tho.

 

[KINGMOKU]

I remeber going to halo-fest, or whatever it was called years ago with a buddy, and his son. Really well done, tons of shit to see and do, and a really cool full backpack wearing VR experience.

That XBOX studios is dead. DEAD. Streaming services want volume, not quality.

We have millions of games*










*three good ones.

 

[FullMetalx117]

Not just game development but across many industries work is being outsourced to contractors/consultants. They don't have to pay W2 benefits, reduce headcount, and bolt on additional man power as needed. This is a trend and can be beneficial sometimes.

But I imagine the comraderies, synergy developed over time in game development is valuable and leads to efficiency long term. Problem is, it requires a lot of up front investment/nurture/and time to pay off. The employees themselves may not buy in long term if they don't feel they're compensated enough and will jump ship as soon as they get the bag at another company. Long standing teams are valuable.

 

[Barakov]

I can't help but feel we are due a crash and the only company that will escape unscathed is Nintendo.

A definite possibility. Probably one of the reasons why they didn't sue a bunch of people in 2017. They knew the (western) game industry had a very good chance of imploding on itself again.

 

[simpatico]

Guy is really scooting that blame isn't he! Brother, it's not the quality of the textures or skyboxes that make the new Halo's suck. Stop trying to pawn it off on contractors. The design doc sucks. Rotten to the literal core. This is the case for all the failed first party games this gen. What parts of the game do outsourced contractors handle? Not core design choices, and those are what killed all those games.

 

[Brucey]

For Q&A and tester teams, and small IT tasks. Not for well managed studios and completely design or programming teams.

This is normal for MS, not the rest of the industry.

Imagine what Activision is going to be like when Mother Microsoft implements this on all their newly acquired studios.

 

[Brucey]

But Microsoft is worth $3 Trillion dollars! Like......what's the point in being that rich, if you can't pay full benefits to some of these workers?



But clearly because they are contractors, they are only allowed to work there for 18 months at a time. That's a horrible business strategy.

They can work for 18 months. Then they have to takes 6 month "break" before getting another 18 month stint.

 

[Loomy]

Good grief. I'm a software developer, but not in gaming. I cannot fathom having to bring in new staff every 18 months. You are at the point where developers are actually hitting a stride and knocking out tasks at an efficient rate. Only to be shown the door when they start adding real value? I imagine there is some cost savings involved with this as folks want raises and such? Seems incredibly self-defeating for a $3 trillion corporation to be penny-pinching like this if that is what it is.

I'm also in software development outside of gaming and 18 months is a blink. Also, those last 4 months are probably spent applying/interviewing for your next job so one foot is out the door already.

This is the reality in the creative/tech world. Talent is seen as disposable. People wonder why movie CGI looks trash these days. Practice like this is exactly why.

 

[mckmas8808]

They can work for 18 months. Then they have to takes 6 month "break" before getting another 18 month stint.

Interesting......