Whoever said Reach was faster?
loldmrbloom
I guess it you count the nuclear grenades...
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Halo |OT 21| Battle is the Great Redeemer | LIVE. DIE. RESPAWN.
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Whoever said Reach was faster?
loldmrbloom
I guess it you count the nuclear grenades...
Reminded me of this
i was bored, so I made some UI tweaks
*sigh*... those were the days...
As long as you can still sword fight, the sword will ALWAYS have a place.
Even before the Halo Reach Beta people were sure about Sprint making the game faster.
You could find several communities having discussions about why Sprint shouldn't be included or why it's still an Armor Ability and not a standard Ability.
TriStateTryHard
Member
A lot of people confuse the idea of moving faster by Sprinting with a faster "Game Pace". Sprint makes you move faster but usually slows down the pace of the game due to enlarged maps, the inability to fire while sprinting, and the imbalance created between aggressor and target AKA sprint rewards running away more than it does aggressing.
Those people are obviously using it the wrong way. Babbies run away. Pros jump in with high speed tenacity.
Seriously though running away has been the lesser of my encounters with sprint.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Unless a weapon is specifically designed with the idea of slowing enemies down, like the Concussion Rifle, I don't want my enemies to have any control over my movement.
As you can cleary tell in other Halo threads currently active on NeoGAF. It boggles my mind.
What even more boggles my mind, that I don't know any game that tries to be an arena shooter and has sprint and maps designed arround sprint...
What would be wrong with that?
It completely negates the problem of people running away during battles. You shouldn't be sprinting around when getting shot anyway.
Maybe make it so if you take a certain amount of damage in a space of time you get knocked out, so someone can't ping you with a single bullet from across the map and knock you out of sprint.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Here is one scenario that shows why desprint is not good.
If sprint is in the game, map designers will create jumps that can only be accomplished by sprint jumping. Nothing is more annoying than soaring over a gap only to be shot mid air and fall to your death because a single bullet nullified most of your forward momentum.
Make it so it doesn't nullify momentum then, only stops you from sprinting. If you are desprinted in mid air you maintain your momentum.
TriStateTryHard
Member
You are still missing the bigger picture. Sprint is a band aid. Desprint is band aids on top of band aids. Why doesn't Call of Duty need desprint?
If you're gonna be able to sprint you should be able to do it. Having it attached to your shields at least sort of makes sense because when you move at full speed your thrusters activate. I know this is a tired argument, but you're a Spartan. What kind of Spartan would be unable to sprint when he gets shot. Let alone when their shields are up?
From a gameplay perspective, it would also be frustrating. You might think you're in the clear and suddenly get jolted out of sprint because some dick is cross mapping you (no offense to all you long range crazies). Or you are in the middle of traversing the map and you're about to make a jump but get thrown off because you get shot. How you use an ability should be up to you not your enemy.
TriStateTryHard
Member
How does it make any realism sense that a Spartan's shields wouldn't recharge because he is sprinting? Makes about as much sense as Spartans with HUD-linked weapons aiming down sights. Not that realism matters in gameplay, just curious.
It's very flimsy, but if you look for it you'll see that when you hit full speed while sprinting your thrusters activate in Halo 5. I'd imagine that within the lore this is you getting a "boost" using your armor. So essentially its the suit routing power to your thrusters at the cost of delaying your shield regen.
The ADS thing has no real explanation. Especially not when we've had an actual explanation for why we never shoved our rifle butt up our nose in the first place. I'm just gonna hope ADS has a toggle so that I can say the reason some Spartans do it is because they like looking down their gun.
Call of Duty doesn't have desprint because you die instantly. Running away from fights is basically impossible.
Also, I have the rather unpopular opinion that Sprint is quite good. I don't think it's negative effects are anywhere near as large as everyone makes them out to be. And i really like running around doing sprint jumps.
The lore perspective makes no sense on either side, let's be honest. We know Spartans can sprint without using extra power from their shields. You could also apply that logic to descope. Why would a Spartan suddenly drop his weapon if he gets shot?
I can see how in some situations it could be frustrating. However that's why I suggested maybe you have to take a certain amount of damage before being desprinted. That would prevent people cross mapping you out of sprint.
Or maybe if you really want to tie it to shields, make it so you can't sprint when unshielded. So if you're sprinting and your shields pop you stop sprinting.
TriStateTryHard
Member
So sprint INHERENTLY works in a game with near instant kill times? Wouldn't that suggest that sprint wouldn't work in a game with kill times as long as Halo?
I guess you can see why the AR kills so quick in Halo 5. They are modifying everything Halo was about just to ignorantly keep a mechanic that clearly does not fit into Halo.
There are other advanced movement abilities, like a first person thruster you can still attack while using, that will allow you to make long jumps without destroying Halo gameplay.
Figured I'd cover all the bases.
Though I've never understood why it's such a bad thing to want to play like the badass the story makes you out to be. Reasons I guess.
Well you can still sprint without the thrusters (and you do). The only reason the thrusters activate is apparently so you get the extra boost for the slide and shoulder check. Again flimsy, but it's something. ADS just doesn't make any sense aside from the one I just made up.
I suppose your proposal could work. It'd be tolerable at least. I'd still rather not have other players affect my movement though.
Par achievements can be gotten on at least Normal. But the aggregate under 3 hours achievement is specifically Legendary.
It's really not as hard as it sounds. If you're good at grenade jumps you're halfway there already. Maybe you need to do one or two tricks on a level or two to bring down your overall score, but I don't think any of the higher level tricks like Flood bumping are really necessary.
There definitely is some luck involved, given how the games offer slight variations in enemy placement, but if you watch the latest WR for CE though, the guy gets bad spawns constantly and still makes it through in many cases.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Slide and Shoulder Bash could both be accomplished with just Thruster. Crouch then Thrust to Slide. Thrust then Melee to Shoulder Bash. Halo 5 is unnecessarily overcomplicating things.
Even Ground Pound could work with just Thruster. Hold Melee and Crouch while airborne.
Even Ground Pound could work with just Thruster. Hold Melee and Crouch while airborne.
No, that only suggests that sprint works in a game with very fast kill times. And do you really think they've decreased the TTK just to fit sprint into the game? I think they wanted to up the pace of the game a bit and so reduced the kill times.
Also, think about how you could combine thrusters with sprint jumping and crouch jumping and clamber. You have a crazy amount of options for movement and I'm really excited to see how it all meshes together.
Trying to explain mechanics from a lore perspective almost never works
Think about scoping in the previous games, that was linked to your HUD and didn't have much to do with your gun. Why would getting shot change your HUDs display?
To be honest, flinch makes the most sense from a lore perspective.
Personally, I'm fine with the current implementation in 5. I was just thinking of ways to satisfy those who were still complaining.
The point of slide is to go from high speed movement to a quick transition into crouch. The method you propose completely misses that. Shoulder bash being paired with thruster would make it more of a problem. Unless you increased the cooldown of thrusters people could just spam it.
TriStateTryHard
Member
How is a player running full speed forward then transitioning into a crouched thrust not exactly the same as what you are describing?
Because you'd have to crouch first, then slide into crouch. It would be horribly clunky.
A better solution would be thrust then crouch.
TriStateTryHard
Member
If 343 really wanted to increase game pace, they wouldnt be forcing me to lower my weapon to move at full speed or quadrupling the size of Midship. Yes, I absolutely think that the kill times were lowered to accomdate sprint.
TriStateTryHard
Member
You would crouch then thrust near simultaneously. Are you incapable of quickly pressing two buttons in succession?
Eh... depends on the game. Some games are very good at replicating the lore within the game.Trying to explain mechanics from a lore perspective almost never works
Think about scoping in the previous games, that was linked to your HUD and didn't have much to do with your gun. Why would getting shot change your HUDs display?
To be honest, flinch makes the most sense from a lore perspective.
As for the descope, lore wise you could say that it takes you out of it so you aren't just standing there zoomed in and getting shot at. I mean if you're stuck in zoom you can't as effectively escape because you can't see what's around you. No big deal for us but in the world of the game, you die for realsies.
Again these are very flimsy but it makes more sense than ADS or flinch
In my head I imagined you having to crouch and then press the thruster as opposed to just pressing both at the same time. My bad. I need some coffee...
However H5's method isn't anymore complicated. You sprint and then just press the crouch button when you've reached full speed and that takes like 2 seconds.
Banshee AI in Halo 4 are ridiculous
I can go through the first couple of levels on legendary without dying but as soon as I run into those pieces of shit, I die like 20 times. Like since when can banshees fly straight down at a player at almost a 90 degree angle? I know I sure as hell can't when I'm piloting one. So why can they? Or if they're flying straight at you with their 100% accuracy weapons shooting the shit out of you, and you manage to fire a locked on rocket at them, they literally pull some stupid manoeuvre that isn't possible at the last second and dodge it. As if even locking on to the damn things wasn't random enough
I get trying to make the game harder. But it's just cheap when they're doing stuff that you as a player couldn't ever do with the same tools
/grumble
Plus what is flood bumping? Is it this thing? I copied that from a video in which he skipped Keyes. Took like 5 attempts. Can you do it on other levels to skip parts? (Actually is there a list or something with speedrun videos for each level/campaign? Youtube seems to give variable results)
I can go through the first couple of levels on legendary without dying but as soon as I run into those pieces of shit, I die like 20 times. Like since when can banshees fly straight down at a player at almost a 90 degree angle? I know I sure as hell can't when I'm piloting one. So why can they? Or if they're flying straight at you with their 100% accuracy weapons shooting the shit out of you, and you manage to fire a locked on rocket at them, they literally pull some stupid manoeuvre that isn't possible at the last second and dodge it. As if even locking on to the damn things wasn't random enough
I get trying to make the game harder. But it's just cheap when they're doing stuff that you as a player couldn't ever do with the same tools
/grumble
I can't grenade jump in Halo CE. Just terrible at it. The timer is longer than every other game and I just can't compensate for it haha.
Plus what is flood bumping? Is it this thing? I copied that from a video in which he skipped Keyes. Took like 5 attempts. Can you do it on other levels to skip parts? (Actually is there a list or something with speedrun videos for each level/campaign? Youtube seems to give variable results)
I think Halo CE was my favorite iteration of the Banshee. You were able to go completely up, down, hover in place, and spin like a boss. Halo 2's is the next best one. Every Banshee after just gets more lame.
The AI for the Banshee in Halo 4 though? Yeah they are major bullshit.
Aye, that's flood bumping. But on Keyes you can use the shield near the beginning of the level to pop yourself up and get into the Control room, skipping everything outside. Makes the mission a matter of 5 minutes once you master the bump.
http://youtu.be/xcTyCIUP-ws
This guy has the current (sub 1:30) WR for Halo; you'll probably want to mute him but you can see stuff he does to speed things up.
I am definitely worse at grenade jumps in CE as well but they're still manageable. I'd just focus on playing CE to make sure you've got the hang of it.
I would strongly recommend taking the time to learn how to drop down from the AOTCR bridge because the amount of time it takes to learn to do that and make the rest of the mission a literal zero-enemy walk is well worth it.
You say that but we can already see the pace of the game is much faster.
As for sprint, it allows you to get into the action much faster. When you're in the action thrusters and a higher TTK up the pace the the duels massively yet they still appear to retain that Halo property of the best man comes out on top.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Forcing players to choose between moving at full speed or retaining the ability to fire slows the game down immensely. Do you ever see players watching dangerous areas as they methodically move? No, they sprint straight forward with tunnel vision the majority of the time. What you are not seeing is all those opportunities for engagement that players miss because they are only looking forward because sprint only lets them look forward.
Players sprinting for 90% of the match does not mean the game pace is faster.
Computer
Member
My thought on the newest H5 gameplay video. Empire is a shitty Halo 4 style map. No map control due to sprint and all the random ledges, pathways, and rooms. Low kills times to accommodate the speed of sprint and boost. Spartans say cringe worthy shit that have no impact on what is going on in the game. Still hate spartan 5 dude bros with a passion and do not want to see them in any part of the Halo 5 story. Clamber looks like it takes no skill at all despite what 343 says. Br dose not look like a burst fire weapon anymore. Crouch jump is fucked due to a cheap kill mechanic. Sprint is not effected by the nerf at all. Run run shoot die. Run run shoot die. Looks like it play's just like Halo 4. Art style is dark and gritty looks just like H4. They just cant let their cod version of Halo go. There has been no original innovation just jump on what other games are doing and hope it sticks. When the beta drops there will be a bloody war between devs and the people that buy their game over all the BS added to Halo.
NobleGundam
Banned
I dislike seeing these posts that makes halo mp so abstract..No, that only suggests that sprint works in a game with very fast kill times. And do you really think they've decreased the TTK just to fit sprint into the game? I think they wanted to up the pace of the game a bit and so reduced the kill times.
Also, think about how you could combine thrusters with sprint jumping and crouch jumping and clamber. You have a crazy amount of options for movement and I'm really excited to see how it all meshes together.
Trying to explain mechanics from a lore perspective almost never works
Think about scoping in the previous games, that was linked to your HUD and didn't have much to do with your gun. Why would getting shot change your HUDs display?
To be honest, flinch makes the most sense from a lore perspective.
Personally, I'm fine with the current implementation in 5. I was just thinking of ways to satisfy those who were still complaining.
Here's what you need to know.
MP shouldn't have canonical reasons to fully change it to "fit" the lore.
As long as the game is fun and balanced than that's all that really matters. BUT, ppl have different perspectives of what defines balance. In this case, it's Halo's Arena type MP. Equal Starts, Fair, and Balanced.
There's just now a different spectrum of Arena play style than there was before with the original formula.
My concern with these new abilities had been and will remain the ability to players to cheaply avoid being killed just like Armour Lock and the Hardlight Shield before it. It seems like if you're one shot then you can thruster out of the way, avoid the fire and then kill someone, which sounds frustrating.
Of course this is all based off video footage and not playing the game, so I'm still open minded.
Of course this is all based off video footage and not playing the game, so I'm still open minded.
Oh I agree, I was pointing out how silly it is to use lore as a reason for mechanical features. Descope is far better than flinch, however flinch makes more sense in the lore.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Gotta get that Member status.
NobleGundam
Banned
It's true that it can get frustrating possibly for some to a very small fraction of players but it most definitely improves on promoting better movement and flow. Unlike Sprint.
Rewatch the Halo 5 Beta on Empire for example. It's just a run and gun shooting fest. There's no sign of real "Map Control". They just Sprint, Thrust, Sprint, Sprint, Clamber, Sprint, Thrust, Sprint... and etc. What is this? That's not fun. There's just too much movement for it's own good and the maps like Empire cater to it.
Midship remake doesn't necessarily compliment Sprint and Clamber in comparison to the other two maps we've seen so far. And it should be more this way of smaller arena maps with LESS of promoting those two abilities and you have a much more better game and it'll easily be more competitive. Think Haven for example.
Remember those abilities took absolutely no skill to use.
Thrusting effectively will require skill and won't just be a temporary get out of jail free card.
I disagree completely, all that movement looks great.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Continual brainless movement, always in the forward direction, with no thought put into it, with no care as to who or what is off to your sides, shoulder charge, ground pound, Halo 5.
You do realise you can like, turn? So forwards isn't always necessarily in the same direction. Right? I mean it's a pretty difficult concept to grasp, but it's still very important.
More seriously, what's wrong with forward movement? Would you rather everyone walked around backwards or sidestepping?
NobleGundam
Banned
Of course you would. To those that want to keep sprint in the game and want larger maps...
you give too much options and the game becomes inconsistent and redundant map control.
Limit the amount of movement for those options and you have a better balanced experience. "Oh but you're making the game slower" yes but at the cost of what? A consistent flow for everyone. Not everyone enjoys all these abilities. Why cater to promote the abuse of them by giving so much freedom in the maps? You'll just throw map control off.
Midship remake is a great example of how More maps for those abilities should be like.
TriStateTryHard
Member
You can only sprint forward, not sideways or backwards. Don't even know what you are trying to argue here.
I would rather players be able to move in whatever direction they please without being handicapped by forward-only sprint. You do realize your analog stick can move in other directions besides forward right?
In firefights they're moving all over the place though. Strafing, jumping, backpedalling, all very classic Halo. Combine that with Thrusters and suddenly the movement becomes far more interesting than it ever did in previous Halos. He actually hardly sprints around at all in the most recent Empire gameplay. He spends a lot of time around the edge of the central area and occassionally moves away to chase someone down.
You claim it's continuous "brainless" motion which is "always in the forward direction", but it really isn't. Most of the time the sprinting only occurs off the spawn so he can get back into the central area where the enemy is. If you actually watch the gameplay you can see that. You also have to remember that this is the first time these people have played, they don't know the maps that well, they aren't all communicating. How would you expect them to be moving?
Eh, there's not a whole lot to discuss really. The MCC is still broken and new gameplay just came out. The old arguments come straight back.
On another note: Titanfall is so, so, so good. Like this is the most fun I've ever had on a multiplayer FPS.
Haven't seen Clique post here in awhile so...
Is the Throwdown party still a go at 10pm EST tonight?
EDIT: ALSO THIS...
Is the Throwdown party still a go at 10pm EST tonight?
EDIT: ALSO THIS...
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