How about an armor lock that activates on sprint and doesn't immobilize you. And it powers up your thrusters to become space shuttle thrusters.
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<3 Prinz
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Halo |OT 21| Battle is the Great Redeemer | LIVE. DIE. RESPAWN.
- Thread starter Plywood
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How about an armor lock that activates on sprint and doesn't immobilize you. And it powers up your thrusters to become space shuttle thrusters.
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<3 Prinz
Close quarters but not tight spaces.
For example, thruster on lockout for most of the map would be useless. It would boil down to being used to pop in and out of cover.
TriStateTryHard
Member
This is by far the dumbest thing you have ever said.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Why Thruster is Better than Sprint in Every Possible Way
Sprint can only be activated while standing, not while crouching, not while airborne.
Thruster can be activated while standing, while crouching, or while airborne.
Sprint only works in one direction: forward.
Thruster works in any direction.
Sprinting takes away the player's ability to attack.
The player retains his ability to attack while thrusting.
Sprint is unlimited.
Thruster is single use before recharge.
Typically, sprint can only be used to navigate the map.
Thruster can aide in map navigation, aide in an offensive attack, or aide in a defensive maneuver.
Sprint cannot move the player fast enough to avoid being splattered by a vehicle.
Thruster can move the player fast enough to avoid being splattered by a vehicle.
Sprint cannot move the player fast enough to avoid an incoming rocket, mortar, or grenade.
Thruster can move the player fast enough to avoid an incoming rocket, mortar, or grenade.
Can someone explain to me how, in a game where lateral movement, strafing, is a pillar of gameplay, a movement ability that only works in the forward direction, sprint, meshes well with the game's core values?
Can someone explain to me how, in a run-and-gun game where simultaneously moving and attacking is core to gameplay, a movement ability that forces players to choose between running or gunning, meshes well with the game's core values?
A first person view Thruster, where the player retains his ability to attack while using it, is better in every possible way when compared to sprint.
Sprint can only be activated while standing, not while crouching, not while airborne.
Thruster can be activated while standing, while crouching, or while airborne.
Sprint only works in one direction: forward.
Thruster works in any direction.
Sprinting takes away the player's ability to attack.
The player retains his ability to attack while thrusting.
Sprint is unlimited.
Thruster is single use before recharge.
Typically, sprint can only be used to navigate the map.
Thruster can aide in map navigation, aide in an offensive attack, or aide in a defensive maneuver.
Sprint cannot move the player fast enough to avoid being splattered by a vehicle.
Thruster can move the player fast enough to avoid being splattered by a vehicle.
Sprint cannot move the player fast enough to avoid an incoming rocket, mortar, or grenade.
Thruster can move the player fast enough to avoid an incoming rocket, mortar, or grenade.
Can someone explain to me how, in a game where lateral movement, strafing, is a pillar of gameplay, a movement ability that only works in the forward direction, sprint, meshes well with the game's core values?
Can someone explain to me how, in a run-and-gun game where simultaneously moving and attacking is core to gameplay, a movement ability that forces players to choose between running or gunning, meshes well with the game's core values?
A first person view Thruster, where the player retains his ability to attack while using it, is better in every possible way when compared to sprint.
Care to explain why? Or are you just going to resort to bad insults.
On the walkways on Lockout there would be absolutely no room for horizontal movement using thrusters. You could only thrust backwards and forwards.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Go look up a video on tac jumps on Lockout and then try to tell me that Thruster would useless on Lockout.
Son of Sam
Banned
I don't care for skins, and i don't care for perks. Vanilla Halo wouldn't work though. At least like i said i don't think so. It's too bland. Maybe if they increased the base speed a significant amount so you don't need sprint but keep clamber and thrusters while making the gunplay feel very smooth (this is something they should take from COD/Titanfall) then it could work. But a Halo 2 clone would not regain the market share they are looking for. Sorry to bust your bubble.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I think he's saying that thrusters thrive in close quarters because you can maneuver around corners or towards/away from walls to give yourself an advantage (dodging wall bounced grenades, hiding behind an object, causing your opponent to trip up). In a big open spot it doesn't give you any advantage because you're still just out in the open with equal vulnerability.
There are only a few spots on lockout where you couldn't thrust in any direction but backward and forward, even then I'd still say it's useful.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Exactly, it's not enough like other shooters. I hear ya.
RSB
Banned
Yeah, we totally need devs to further homegenize the FPS genre. Too much diversity right now, especially on consoles.
/s
Edit: LOL, Son of Sam is trolling so hard right now.
Nothing wrong with borrowing from good aspects.
Titanfalls movement options are proving to be a popular theme in shooters now, wether they took the ideas from titanfall or not.
Destiny, CoD; AW, now Halo. If I could have some arena shooter that mimics titanfalls movements almost exactly but gives me the ability to fire accuratley from the hip... so good
Son of Sam
Banned
Yah buddy. Come back to earth, check into reality. Halo lost popularity because it did things progressively worse than the new "modern" shooters.
From Halo 2 to Halo 3 everything got slower, controls were no longer smooth they were cumbersome, bullets didn't hit accurately, TTK was getting to an insane level of frustration, graphics weren't up to par with everything else, the maps sucked with awful lines of sight. The franchise began it's decline. People want smooth controls, they want fast gameplay, they want movement, they want 60fps, they want decent map design. They also want (which i don't care for) a lot of metacap (customization and the feeling of leveling up)
Prinz Eugn
Member
I agree, but the particular example of "smooth gunplay" was too absurd not to comment on. ADS ruined Titanfall for me. It had all these dynamic options to move but you have to stand still to hit anything?
RSB
Banned
Yeah, that is the worst. I would have liked Destiny 1000 times more if it didn't have all those stupid accuracy penalties. I'll never understand why Bungie decided it would be a good idea to introduce all those cool movement options and then force us to be sitting ducks to have any kind of accuracy. So dumb...
Nope, it just caused him to lose his Super-Halo-Saiyan powers.
He'll return someday... lol
NobleGundam
Banned
Jem and Tristate are both right and both wrong.
I really don't want to have TP on lockout. And honestly, Sprint isn't the answer either.
Core gameplay must compliment Map design and vice-versa. That's it.
I really don't want to have TP on lockout. And honestly, Sprint isn't the answer either.
Core gameplay must compliment Map design and vice-versa. That's it.
Plenty of reasons: you have the jump on them, you think you can out-BR them, you have high ground/other advantageous position, you have nearby teammates for a team shot, it's an objective game and the right call is to soften or distract targets even if it means sacrificing yourself, if you don't they're likely to see and kill you anyway, etc.
All sarcasm aside, this sounds amazing. I want to fight Space ISIS (Spicis?).
TriStateTryHard
Member
People have been talking about "making gameplay faster paced" lately and how Sprint facilitates this. Thruster does it better. Imagine you are BR3 fighting an enemy S3. All while keeping your reticle on target, you could strafe left and jump off, falling all the way down to the Sword Window before thrusting left through it to land yourself at Sword. Alternatively, all while keeping your reticle on target, you strafe right, jump off and fall towards Open Ramp before thrusting left through the doorway, landing yourself in BR2.
Now, that seems like faster paced gameplay to me. Seems like it could produce smarter players too.
KidA Seven
Member
Well it changes the combat. Spaces are now bigger so unless the grenade's explosion radius is bigger, there's a better chance you can stay alive while hiding in what used to be a smaller space. For example, If there is a guy hiding in pink 2 on midship and you throw a plasma nade, there is a good chance you will kill him as there isn't much room to stay hidden. In Halo 5, pink 2 is wider so a nade thrown there won't necessarily kill as there is more room . When it comes to shooting, everything is now farther away so that is slightly changed. It should be slightly harder to kill. This aspect is also affected by the mechanics of certain guns's auto aim, sticky, etc... so I'm not acting like it automatically makes things harder/easier as there are other factors to take into account.
In the end, it just seems pointless. Yeah you're moving faster, but the maps are bigger. Why not just keep the maps the same size, but increase the base movement speed? Distance and time are relative so are you really reaching positions on the map much faster than before? The key difference is that you can't shoot while moving fast.
Again, this is only for arena maps. BTB maps wouldn't be affected as there is just so much open space.
The Real Napsta
Member
Any word on an update today?
Prinz Eugn
Member
Which would make sense, except Halo 3 sustained its population for years again CoD.
More movement is good. Halo 5 is doing that. Smooth controls? Well, there's ADS in Halo 5 (god help us), maybe that'll please you, but then auto aim is supposedly not holding your hand so much, so who knows? Your understanding of "graphics" has quite frankly seemed immature so far, but 60fps is a plus and it's apparently here to stay. But map design and TTK? It's a different type of shooter with a different type of gameplay. That's your problem, not Halo's.
I don't want a clone of Halo 2 or any of the previous games, the key is move the good ideas from the franchise forward and innovate rather than emulate an already crowded market. Halo 5 appears to be doing both anyway.
Munch Poke
Member
NobleGundam
Banned
You're preaching to the choir. I already know all this. And like many times before on here, posting for a version 2.0 for TP to make it a default feature over sprint. But you can't ignore the fact that Sprint is just a band-aid to patch over the base movement speed issue that isn't really easy to solve. "Just increase BMS" is all I see yet what the ppl who think simply increasing the adjustments on it would solve that problem when it really doesn't with the current system being used in settings. It's like you'll have to manually adjust every fraction of a whole number based on movement. You can't think of increasing or decreasing from default (5) normal speed to a few numbers like up to 7 will solve your problems when you'll be off balance on almost every developed map. And that's just facts what I"ve been trying to get through to ppl about it.
Like.....UT.
Well not exactly with the wall running, but Titanfall is the closest thing to UT on a console that I've experienced so far.
Halo and UT just need to cut the shit and get in bed together already.
TriStateTryHard
Member
The issue isn't so much "movement speed", because player speed is relative to map size and can appear slow or fast depending on the scale of the map, but "movement acceleration". Players need to feel unpredictable, like they can move in any direction at any time while strafing. This is where movement acceleration comes into play. When I have to slowly decelerate to zero then slowly accelerate in the opposite direction, that is not unpredictable at all. I should be able to change directions near instantaneously on a whim. Now you just balance movement speed against map scale and you still retain player unpredictably within the individual areas of a map. Combine this with the ability to fluidly crouch, jump, short hop, and gandhi hop while strafing and we are beginning to seriously empower player movement. Add a single use before recharge, first person thruster that the player can attack during and you are nearing an awesome next gen Halo experience.
I watched about 30 seconds and that was enough.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Dude time splitters, especially the sequel, was my favorite! Before I had an Xbox I was trying to convince people that it was better than Halo and I sincerely believed it. Such an amazingly fun game.
Dang dude how can I revisit it?
NobleGundam
Banned
I'll have to disagree on movement acceleration. You're wanting an unpredictable movement to empore players yet it, to my mind, comes out just way off balance. You do realize that can really effect not only the core game but everything else along with it right?
User 73706
Banned
Ran through H2A last night and took some clips:
top tier regret speedrun shenanigans
purple chief
do you even lift?
WRAITH SHOTS GIVE OFF GOD RAYS ON GREAT JOURNEY HOLY SHIT
top tier regret speedrun shenanigans
purple chief
do you even lift?
WRAITH SHOTS GIVE OFF GOD RAYS ON GREAT JOURNEY HOLY SHIT
For me, it's been mostly in the form of watching Let's Plays and listening to the OST while working. That Chicago jazzy jam has been stuck endlessly repeating in my head. Norgate God-tier track right there! LOL
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Ugh I wanna replay them. They were so good. Maybe I can find an emulator on the pc.
That series needs to make a comeback.
TriStateTryHard
Member
I intend to have increased movement acceleration affect minimum killtimes. When player movement is more unpredictable, landing shots increases in difficulty. Increased aiming difficulty allows us to decrease minimum killtimes. Decreasing minimum killtimes, while simultaneously increasing player unpredictability, allows there to be a greater difference between players' average killtimes and the minimum killtime. A greater difference between "minimum killtime" and "average killtime" creates a wider possible skillgap. A wider skillgap is a good thing, right?
Thus far I think the issue is one of scope. Forward Unto Dawn was a limited-budget series with a very defined scope, and no expectations going into it.
Nightfall is a larger-budget, but its scope seems to have exceeded its grasp of what it could pull off capably, and then that's compounded by the fact that we had higher expectations because FUD was good.
I think it also suffers because aside from basically four characters, the others really just feel like they're there to be picked off. FUD had kid actors who A) looked their age, and B) were actually quite competent. I didn't feel like they were in a horror movie and were all going to die as a result.
NobleGundam
Banned
If it's adjusted right than a skill gap is fine.
But it just doesn't sound fun based on how unpredictable you worded it out to be..
Fahzgoolin
Banned
Mikwen and other pros have reported that when they had their own private meetings/discussions with 343, their outcry against sprint was ignored and dismissed. Pros have given up trying to take out sprint.
If they won't listen or budge to what the pros say in their own private meetings, they most certainly won't listen to us.
Let's give it up HaloGaf. =(
If they won't listen or budge to what the pros say in their own private meetings, they most certainly won't listen to us.
Let's give it up HaloGaf. =(
Got a link for that? If it's true, then the "343 Pro Team" is pretty much all for show, which I sort of suspected.
Bregmann Roche
Member
Just stumbled across an old email I wrote to a friend in 2009. It contains the following:
"Halo: Reach comes out next year and if the single player experience is as
good as ODST's then it is probably going to be the best game ever made
because we all know that Bungie couldn't screw up Halo multi-player even
if they tried."
I don't recognize the person who wrote that even though the person who wrote that is me.
Young Bregmann was more of a fool than Old Bregmann.
We've fallen so far.
"Halo: Reach comes out next year and if the single player experience is as
good as ODST's then it is probably going to be the best game ever made
because we all know that Bungie couldn't screw up Halo multi-player even
if they tried."
I don't recognize the person who wrote that even though the person who wrote that is me.
Young Bregmann was more of a fool than Old Bregmann.
We've fallen so far.
Welfare
Member
I like it. Better than FUD.
They are both two different styles though. FUD was about recruits getting attacked by the Covenant, Nightfall is about actual Military personnel (and ONI) on a survival mission against the clock, and themselves.
Also the side stories help Nightfall out IMO.
I remember talking with my friends the day Halo 4 was revealed that 343 could not fuck up and they would know to remove sprint and change Armor Abilities into some sort of on map powerup. We also believed that all gametypes or most would make a return with so many new ones we would never pick a definite favourite. Also forge and custom games would be so much better than Reach.
We were all fools.
Son of Sam
Banned
Uh, C.A.R with counterweight
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
A new Halo game without Sprint won't be as popular among the people who buy FPS games nowadays. It's become standard, like regenerating health, two main weapon limit etc etc
Son of Sam
Banned
Yeah, pretty much.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Here's the thing about sprint. Whether it's about it being necessary for a "modern" shooter or not shouldn't be the argument. For me, it's about what it should feel like if you're a human being running around in combat. Should your movement speed feel like a constant slow jog or should it have moments of variability with explosive sprints and dodges? Even more so, you're a super human in Halo. I want to feel like I'm a super human. Does a super human not sprint? Should there not be more dynamic maneuverability than stop/go?
Halo didn't have sprint originally and it worked well like that. It wasn't a design decision to omit sprint, it didn't have sprint because shooters just didn't have it back then. But we're now able to emulate real world scenarios better in games, and I believe incorporating those scenarios can enhance immersion and intensity. When I say "emulate real world scenarios", I want to make it clear that I'm not speaking in regard to the "realistic military shooter" trope. I'm more talking about real-world things that we can relate to which may enhance our gameplay experience. First person shooters make us feel like we're inside a character, realistic gun sounds and recoil make it feel like we're shooting a gun with real power. Sprinting behind a wall when getting shot at feels right to me, the natural tendency is to dip out quickly in a pinch like that. Not being able to shoot while sprinting is a question of balance. Maybe you could shoot while sprinting, but it should be less accurate (this would also piss off a lot of Halo fans). My point is having more dynamic maneuverability opens up for more diverse combat scenarios.
Sprint did not work in Reach and Halo 4 primarily because it was shoehorned in. Map design, balance and a number of other factors made it not work properly. This does not mean sprint can't work in Halo. You have to design the maps differently, you have to balance weapons differently. Keep the base movement speed similar to the other games and you can still strafe. Maybe shorten the ttk a tad so evading isn't quite as easy. Make the grenade radius higher so they're as prevalent as they should be in Halo.
I understand why people don't like sprint in Halo games, all the good ones did not include it. But the "bad" ones also had a shitload of other experimental stuff that didn't work well together. I feel like people can't distinguish the difference between the actual concept of sprint with how it's been implemented in past Halo games.
Am I saying that it will work in Halo 5? No, but from what I've seen they've incorporated movement into the overall design of the game and it looks to work much better than it has in the past.
Welfare
Member
Where is Counter Strike pop wise? Oh, 278k and is constantly in the top of twitch streams.
Say that again.
Shhhh we don't talk about that. Games need to be marketed to seem popular!
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