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Halo |OT 21| Battle is the Great Redeemer | LIVE. DIE. RESPAWN.
- Thread starter Plywood
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Yeah I pretty much agree with this completely. The AR and grenades in H2A are effective enough that a 4v4 on Warlord shouldn't NEED BR starts and in that particular map scenario, I'd much prefer BRs to play out like pseudo power weapons. Maybe make an AR/Magnum or SMG/Magnum start so we all at least have a headshot capable weapon off spawn that isn't quite as dominant as the BR, but skilled players will still outplay less skilled players via the magnum.
On large maps like Stonetown and ESPECIALLY Bloodline though, BR starts are a MUST.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Why would anyone want to spawn with a weapon that they can't defend the!selves with? Halo has a Utility Weapon for a reason.
FUBAR McDangles
Member
Searched in H2A playlist for ten minutes and gave up. Went to Team Slayer, got a match of CE on Damnation.
One guy backs out right away so it's 3v4. Team with 4 goes up 35-~15 or so at one point, so another guy quits. I'm playing like shit and am probably 5-15 at that point. Then the other team starts killing each other and killing us so the score pretty much stays the same for another three or four minutes.
Backed out. Have no desire to play Halo for a while now. What a bummer.
One guy backs out right away so it's 3v4. Team with 4 goes up 35-~15 or so at one point, so another guy quits. I'm playing like shit and am probably 5-15 at that point. Then the other team starts killing each other and killing us so the score pretty much stays the same for another three or four minutes.
Backed out. Have no desire to play Halo for a while now. What a bummer.
The Henery
Member
Then have MS/343 put their much vaunted trueskill to the test. If it works as well as they think it does, AR/BR starts will serve both the skilled and unskilled groups.
Not that I think it's solely a schism between the good and the bad.
TriStateTryHard
Member
The ability to defeat multiple enemies is reliant upon the ability to make enemies miss, by giving players the ability to effectively strafe, and the ability to land shots, by giving players an accurate weapon that can deal damage at most ranges. This is basis of good Halo gameplay.
User 73706
Banned
The hell is a Gemani
"I will continue my campaign against the juniors-""YOU SUCK!"
"I will continue my campaign against the juniors-""YOU SUCK!"
uhhhhh guys, what did I just watch?
biosnake20
Member
Surprised they're still not revealing any new beta info yet.
Poker Face
Member
I love Halo mods. Always crazy good stuff.
Same here. If I see an AR my SMG gets dumped immediately. H2A's AR has some teeth.
I pretty much agree with anything you said here. I think I'd just rather have a little more variety in the game than everyone running around with one of the best weapons in the game from the start. I still like the idea of the BR alternating between a spawn weapon for large and mid sized maps and being a power weapon for small maps (again, small maps would need to be altered to have only 1 or 2 BR spawns). As much as I do like the BR, spawning with it on every single game feels like it renders half of the weapons kind of pointless.
On lockout I guess BR spawns are kind of necessary since that map is so heavily focused on controlling one or two points. But if I had my way Lockout would be purged from existence because it's an overrated map and 4v4 slayer on lockout is boring as fuck because of how repetitive it is.
BR isn't the best weapon. It's just a utility weapon. Jack of all trades, master of none.
The issue is the rest of the weapons suck.
Sniper, Shotgun, Rockets, Rail gun, sword, all those weapons are power weapons. They are insanely powerful when used right. These are the weapons to fight over, using your BR.
But if 343 wants to add forerunner/covenant versions of existing weapons they need to be made DIFFERENT.
There's no reason I should pick up a plasma rifle if I have a BR. Or AR for that matter.
But if the made it stun...
The issue is the rest of the weapons suck.
Sniper, Shotgun, Rockets, Rail gun, sword, all those weapons are power weapons. They are insanely powerful when used right. These are the weapons to fight over, using your BR.
But if 343 wants to add forerunner/covenant versions of existing weapons they need to be made DIFFERENT.
There's no reason I should pick up a plasma rifle if I have a BR. Or AR for that matter.
But if the made it stun...
Greenskull complains about whining in the community.
Also apparently he likes the Halo Bulletin and that Halo mobile game.
Also apparently he likes the Halo Bulletin and that Halo mobile game.
Holy shit
Scarab babies being made
and yeah Biosnake I wish they would show the 4 other maps.
That was one of the most greenskull videos he's ever made
NobleGundam
Banned
"Welcome to Shill 101"
again. i dont disagree with anything here.
well, except the shotgun. Halo 2 (classics) shotgun is a bad weapon. Halo 3's isn't much better.
And yeah, plasma stun needs to come back so badly.
TriStateTryHard
Member
and people say ethics in gaming journalism is dead.
#greenshillgate
#greenshillgate
Some of his points are somewhat reasonable. Quite a lot of the community is complaining pretty heavily without having even played the game. Which is made worse by the fact that those who have played it aren't anywhere near as negative.
That's not to say that people shouldn't complain at all, however some are outright dismissing it already. Which I think is a bit silly.
User 73706
Banned
Halo 3 Anniversary Remix: Human Scarabpede Edition
buddha0991
Member
Agreed. I also feel this way about the Silenced SMG. Both are blatantly better than the standard SMG.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Again I'm still happy this shit head isn't allowed have a gaf account.
Greenskull gonna Greenskull.
Welfare
Member
We have been through 2 games so far that have been below average in in gameplay. Many people saw what Halo 4 was going to be like and fucking called it. Halo 5 looks to be an evolution of the Halo 4 gameplay, which turned off many Halo players.
Also, his comments about the beta and saying he will send feedback to 343. They won't do a god damn thing with this beta except for weapon and SA balance. That's it. They could release this beta in July next year and any changes that this beta brings would be the exact same changes a later beta would change.
343 are trying to bring good will by saying they're listening to feedback and this beta will do just that. "Hey look! Almost a year from launch and we're holding a beta! We're listening!"
Bullshit.
"I'll take feedback directly to 343"
do ho ho
Hey Greenskull, maybe more people would be willing to give 343 the benefit of the doubt if they didn't put their entire community on the loyalty treadmill constantly. I know how the Xbox MVP program works. Poor form to attack the community in your video.
NobleGundam
Banned
That's like almost every other halo game besides CE lol
"Somewhat" reasonable or not he's a shill.
His and other reviewers comments for H4 suggesting ADS to be in Halo is the reason why a cosmetic ads is in H5 that's not even a necessity for the game... Btw I'm not hating on it, but it's really not needed.
The problem with it being a power weapon (as you aptly point out) is that it totally dominates against AR in anything but the smallest of cramped quarters (and even then a single melee + headshot will beat a melee + spray from AR).
This is made abundantly clear on Halo 3 maps where everyone started with the AR. The opening rush was for rockets/sniper AND the BR locations. If you didn't find a BR at game start you were essentially dead / waiting for the BR to spawn back in. If you did find a BR on spawn you could easily get 3-4 kills before either being countered by the rockets/sniper or the opposing team BR. It essentially makes the opening rush a chaos of random routes while everyone hunts for a different weapon. When everyone is given the utility weapon off spawn they don't hunt for weapons, they move in groups to secure power weapons (or powerups - those are still a map pickup in Halo 5 right?), or to attack the enemy.
Games rapidly spirals out of control if one team loses their BR early in the match - it can be almost impossible for a coordinated team of 4 with ARs to take on a somewhat coordinated pair of 2 with BRs.
The simple (and some could argue elegant) solution would be to just give everyone the BR + AR as their starting combo. This way everyone is (allegedly) appeased. If you're a spray and pray gamer then you have the AR. If you're a tryhard then you have the BR from spawn.
Also - as has been pointed out ad naseum - if you don't have a BR on spawn on really small maps there is a very real chance you will be spawn trapped and die repeatedly against a good team. At least with a BR you have a chance.
====
EDIT - Also that Greenskull video. We all knew he was a shill before... but holy shit at that speech. He's going to take what we say (on Youtube comments I assume) and forward them directly on to the fine folks at 343. Lulz.
AHHHH, I cringe when I read this logic. No offense dude.
At least you admit that when a team gets the BRs in a non-BR start game, that team usually wipes the floor of the other team.
When you lookat Halo CE, and hopefully people will start to see this as MCC becomes more stable and eventually there will be an HCE playlist, HCE's weapon set is practically flawless.
You spawn with a CQC weapon that's relatively easy to use, it's full auto, and then you have the scoped pistol, not as easy to use (aka earning that 3sk), but becomes a utility weapon that protects you as soon as you spawn from any range. That's the ticker. Being able to full defend yourself from all ranges off spawn.
That's what people do not get. The AR/SMG-start crowd will pillage to their last breath that they hate BR-start games because they're awful with the weapon in the first place. It's not so much the BR itself, it's the concept of spawning with a weapon that can deal damage at medium to long range off spawn. To a player who can't aim very well, this won't be "fun" for them. Instead, they prefer the AR/SMG-start games because everyone is running around with a full-auto weapon that's essentially spray n pray/melee combat, and there are very few rifles on the map. Likewise, if said player happens to get a sniper rifle, hell, it's easy pickings on the folks spawning with AR/SMGs.
When you have BR start games, you have some balance to start with.
At the end of the day, AR/SMG players want those as starting weapons because their simply weak Halo players who can't aim very well on a two-analog stick controller. That's something they won't admit though. Meanwhile, us folks who want to play a balanced Halo game have to suffer because the little people can't seem to hack it with the big kids.
If I'm being rude and offensive to the AR/SMG casual crowd, I apologize, but I'm tired of them always getting their way with Halo and screwing up the balance and competitiveness of the game.
I agree with some of the posters on this topic, just remove all AR/SMG start game modes across all Halo titles that have them. Make the BR the default starting weapon and slap the SMG or AR as the secondary. This way, when the casual kiddos wanna go spray n pray happy, they can immediately switch over to that weapon and do so. Then us big kids can still enjoy ourselves by competiting with some damn balance.
VisceralBowl
Member
Beat the final level of Halo 3 on Legendary in one sitting aaaanndd apparently I've never played it.
EDIT: Just used a voice command and the ring is yellow. All the text options are also yellow and just say "Item #"
to use a command I had to say the Item and number.
WTF 343
EDIT: Just used a voice command and the ring is yellow. All the text options are also yellow and just say "Item #"
to use a command I had to say the Item and number.
WTF 343
Because they suck. There's no other excuse. They simply suck at using a two analog stick controller.
The AR/SMG start crowd are the same people begging for SWAT. SWAT is essentially the most dumbed down version of Halo you can play outside of phantom swords. SWAT requires little to no aim at all, and you can rack up kills because no one has shields, it becomes the COD of Halo.
I never could understand why people enjoyed SWAT so much until I started playing it consistently then I got it. The SWAT people suck at consistency aiming. They can only point their crosshair at someone for so long that if it's not an insta-kill, they won't be able to play.
Ahh...I'm already getting myself worked up on this topic. LOL.
buddha0991
Member
^I like SWAT...but for casual play, not serious play.
H2A...BR/Silenced Scoped SMG start or BR/AR starts! both are good enough for people who wanna spray and pray (plus Silenced Scoped SMG is a fantastic low-mid range weapon as well) and you get your BR.
...Personally I have always been a Covie Carbine guy myself
I DO get the arguement for AR/SMG starts that you should utilize the entire weapon suite, but it leads to one guy who grabs the BR/Carbine/Snipers to dominate over the rest. This is due to poor balance, I maintain Halo 1 is by far the best balanced Halo.
H2A...BR/Silenced Scoped SMG start or BR/AR starts! both are good enough for people who wanna spray and pray (plus Silenced Scoped SMG is a fantastic low-mid range weapon as well) and you get your BR.
...Personally I have always been a Covie Carbine guy myself
I DO get the arguement for AR/SMG starts that you should utilize the entire weapon suite, but it leads to one guy who grabs the BR/Carbine/Snipers to dominate over the rest. This is due to poor balance, I maintain Halo 1 is by far the best balanced Halo.
Halo 2 vista carbine is godly. I pick it put over the BR every chance I get. I never played the vista version, but hot damn, in MCC the carbine is amazballs.
TriStateTryHard
Member
In Reach, DMR bloom was actually a pretty cool mechanic in SWAT gametypes. You would have some kid miss his first shot and keep spamming so you turn around and put one perfectly accurate shot into his face. Makes you feel like Sam Jackson when that kid pops out of the bathroom with the gun in Pulp Fiction.
14 Day Try and Buy
User 73706
Banned
haha nice post lol
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
We're talking ~10 years of tried experiments with SMG/AR starts and they simply don't work in Halo 2's and Halo 3's sandbox. AR/Magnum starts in Halo 5 seem like they have potential because they kill fast and have decent range, meaning you can defend yourself when you spawn. Couple that with the advanced movement options and that's how you better execute on spawning in Halo.
It's almost as if 343 knows this and wants to confuse people, forcing us to play what they want us to.. Either that or they're lazy and just don't give a damn about updating these playlists. And I'm sorry, but I won't believe any reasons like "Didn't have time, had to fix MM" because it should have been this way since launch, and especially since you updated Halo 4.. So choose your poison folks.
Team BR's must sound like "Oh, BRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBRBR only?! SCREW THIS!" -vote for TS- (mind of a nonhardcore Halo fan). Team BR's shouldn't exist; it should be Team Slayer with BR/AR starts.
Thanks.
There was a Bungie weekly update where I (formerly known as dan91bauer) was in the whambulance because Lukems decided to screenshot my forum post at MLG forums, anyway, in this update they came out and told the truth about the BR's design and its place in the Halo 3 sandbox.
It made sense design wise and what they were trying to achieve, but it was the most horrid design I had ever witnessed.
The BR basically was a weapon to ping snipers out of scope. That's it.
AHHHH, I cringe when I read this logic. No offense dude.
At least you admit that when a team gets the BRs in a non-BR start game, that team usually wipes the floor of the other team.
When you lookat Halo CE, and hopefully people will start to see this as MCC becomes more stable and eventually there will be an HCE playlist, HCE's weapon set is practically flawless.
You spawn with a CQC weapon that's relatively easy to use, it's full auto, and then you have the scoped pistol, not as easy to use (aka earning that 3sk), but becomes a utility weapon that protects you as soon as you spawn from any range. That's the ticker. Being able to full defend yourself from all ranges off spawn.
That's what people do not get. The AR/SMG-start crowd will pillage to their last breath that they hate BR-start games because they're awful with the weapon in the first place. It's not so much the BR itself, it's the concept of spawning with a weapon that can deal damage at medium to long range off spawn. To a player who can't aim very well, this won't be "fun" for them. Instead, they prefer the AR/SMG-start games because everyone is running around with a full-auto weapon that's essentially spray n pray/melee combat, and there are very few rifles on the map. Likewise, if said player happens to get a sniper rifle, hell, it's easy pickings on the folks spawning with AR/SMGs.
When you have BR start games, you have some balance to start with.
At the end of the day, AR/SMG players want those as starting weapons because their simply weak Halo players who can't aim very well on a two-analog stick controller. That's something they won't admit though. Meanwhile, us folks who want to play a balanced Halo game have to suffer because the little people can't seem to hack it with the big kids.
If I'm being rude and offensive to the AR/SMG casual crowd, I apologize, but I'm tired of them always getting their way with Halo and screwing up the balance and competitiveness of the game.
I agree with some of the posters on this topic, just remove all AR/SMG start game modes across all Halo titles that have them. Make the BR the default starting weapon and slap the SMG or AR as the secondary. This way, when the casual kiddos wanna go spray n pray happy, they can immediately switch over to that weapon and do so. Then us big kids can still enjoy ourselves by competiting with some damn balance.
No offense taken. I'm well aware my view on this is in the minority with Halo GAF.
I should also probably make note that the BR is probably my favorite weapon in Halo, sniper rifle and CE pistol probably taking the #2 and #3 spots, so I just want to make it clear that I have no issue with aiming shots what so ever.
I think everything you've argued for here kind of makes me think that the AR needs a bit of a range boost. I mean, it's still technically an assault rifle after all, not an LMG. Maybe give it enough of a range boost where you can pepper someone at mid range with a few shots - nothing that would end up being fatal, but enough to cause them to descope and have to take you out that way.
The underlying problem isn't necessarily that the BR is just a great all around weapon, its that the other weapons just simply aren't effective enough. The SMG would be awful weapon regardless if the BR/Carbine existed or not, the same could probably be said for the CE or Halo 3 AR. I think the H2A AR is probably the closest we've gotten to a better all around AR but the BR is still clearly in a different league from it. I wouldn't mind seeing the AR become a tad more "on par", if that makes any sense. The BR should more often than not win out at mid range fights with an automatic weapon - but because automatic weapons are generally worthless at anything but shotgun-level-range in Halo games, the BR's mid range effectiveness is overwhelming.
EDIT alternative proposal - Leave BRs as a map weapon, beef up AR range a little, make the Magnum not fucking worthless.
I still think Reach has the best sandbox because of AR+Useful Magnum starts. DMR is better than Magnum or AR, but just spawned players aren't free kills in 4v4 maps. It seems that H5 is trying something similar. And of course, players should always spawn with DMR/BR in BTB.
I think having complaints is fine. It's the constant whining about the same issues from people who have essentially given up on the game already which is annoying.
Also I think it's a bit unfair to assume nothing of value will come from this beta. 343 have listened to many of the complaints the community had with 4. Equal starts, weapons on map, map control, spectator mode.
TriStateTryHard
Member
Why not combine the AR with the BR, turning them into one weapon with two fire modes? Toggle between a short range automatic with random spread within a large reticle or a long range three round burst with no spread within a small reticle.
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