It's supposed to be the Chief. No, that doesn't make any sense, but neither did the Pillar of Autumn being on the planet and all the other adjustments Bungie made to the canon.
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Halo |OT 23| Thruster is Love, Thruster is Life
- Thread starter VisceralBowl
- Start date
It's supposed to be the Chief. No, that doesn't make any sense, but neither did the Pillar of Autumn being on the planet and all the other adjustments Bungie made to the canon.
Well, you only see a Spartan in the hangar. Chief could have already been in the room, where he wakes up in Halo CE.
Interesting, but Bungie screwed up the lore anyways with Reach.
In First Strike (the book between Halo 1 and Halo 2), Johnson says he had to pick up a package from the hangar of the Pillar of Autumn. They reveal the package later on and it was Linda in a Cryo Tube.
Besides that, there's an easter egg in Halo CEA, where you can see vital stats of Linda.
And that's why I'll refuse to think it's Chief in the hangar.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Bungie's last effort to kill the franchise was attempted on changing the fiction surrounding CE, coming full circle. Know what, thank goodness CE didn't have XBL because Bungie probably would've ruined it.
Never considered that angle, but imagine if it had XBL and Bungie nerfed the game to oblivion? Wish I could say I was kidding, but Bungie made many controversial/questionable changes in Halo 2 after 3 years of the explosion CE caused, then they created Halo 3 after 3 years of fans wanting more explosive, consistent and skillful gameplay lol.. Probably hoping to move on from the franchise at this point, they were obligated to develop 2 more Halo titles, one of which didn't have Matchmaking and the other of which is considered by many fans to be THE Halo game that started burying the franchise.
It's all jokes anyway at this point. The past is the past, hopefully 343 can redeem this franchise to its fans.
Never considered that angle, but imagine if it had XBL and Bungie nerfed the game to oblivion? Wish I could say I was kidding, but Bungie made many controversial/questionable changes in Halo 2 after 3 years of the explosion CE caused, then they created Halo 3 after 3 years of fans wanting more explosive, consistent and skillful gameplay lol.. Probably hoping to move on from the franchise at this point, they were obligated to develop 2 more Halo titles, one of which didn't have Matchmaking and the other of which is considered by many fans to be THE Halo game that started burying the franchise.
It's all jokes anyway at this point. The past is the past, hopefully 343 can redeem this franchise to its fans.
The Real Napsta
Member
Still no update?
Actually - to be clear - the ODST that is going to come with MCC with NOT HAVE ANY FIREFIGHT.
It is campaign only.
Firefight DLC - lol
The only reason it's ODST is because Halo 3 port to Xbox One was done making it the easier port. Reach would be too much work just like ODST Firefight is too much work. I'm still not sure why they axed that from the on demand release of ODST, wasn't on the Halo 3 complete multiplayer disc ?
It didn't have matchmaking but MS could have gone that extra mile for their premier franchise but MCC shows a that'll do attitude at MS.
http://www.halopedia.org/Fall_of_Reach#August_30.2C_2552
The time indices seem to leave room for interpretation, no?
User 73706
Banned
I'm pretty sure in Halo 4 the multikill time window got upped to 4.5 seconds.
AnonomissX
Banned
Well, where the fuck were you when I got here?
#itsallaboutme-me-me
And someone post the newest newbie the questionnaire link, pretty please?
Welfare
Member
The PoA was always in space. It never went down to Reach.
User 73706
Banned
I've been switching out pages in the Halo Story Bible after hours for years
Genesongs? Me. Spartan-IVs and the dissemination of the ODSTs? Me. Freud Cortana? You guessed it!
Genesongs? Me. Spartan-IVs and the dissemination of the ODSTs? Me. Freud Cortana? You guessed it!
ElzarTheBam
Member
Lady, there is only room for one douchebag ego on HALOGAF.
Strike me down, and it's yours.
That whole end of the lore is a mess anyway. Did they ever mention that when they did those lore dump things?
Was it specifically mentioned? It's been a while since I read the book.
edit:
Vaguely recall that after returning to PoA, Keyes made the jump.
AnonomissX
Banned
Can't strike down those chicklet buns of steel. Can't un-see them either.
Poodlestrike
Banned
I knew it!
And that's why I'll refuse to think it's Chief in the hangar.
There's no way to rectify the events of Halo: The Fall of Reach and Reach in a satisfactory manner. I tried my damnedest, even got the Forerunner slipspace crystal and time dilation fields involved, and it still falls apart. Even if you say "okay The Pillar of Autumn left Reach, then turned around to land and pick up the piece of Cortana we've never heard about", the whole "ONI covered up a massive invasion of the planet and a Covenant supercarrier in orbit" defies logic, as does having all the Spartan-IIs sit on their asses for most of the battle for the planet.
EDIT: Whoops forgot that the big Covenant fleet arrives weeks earlier than the day of the battle in TFOR too. So another issue I forgot about.
Most of the issues with Reach would have been solved simply by adjusting timestamps so the campaign took place over a few days instead of months and sticking the Autumn in orbit where it should have been. Still would have been retcons, but not to the egregious extent of what we got. I'd have accepted the retcons much more happily if the plot had demanded it, but there was nothing exceptional about the story that required it.
I guess I'd sum up Reach as "unnecessary", which to me is a problem with so many of the Halo lore issues. 343 has been much more interested in plot consistency, which is good... but then they do things like change the Forward Unto Dawn for no discernible reason besides maybe selling a MegaBloks set. So steps forward and back.
They handwaved things as best they could using the aforementioned "ONI did it!" stuff, but I doubt they're going to ever spend more time on it.
The major problem is they set course for the "random coordinates" Cortana got that lead to Halo, then Chief goes into cryo. So the return to the planet is unnecessary either way.
Reach happens over a few months?? I thought it was only a couple of days...
First mission takes place July 24, 2552, game ends August 30. So technically a bit more than a month to be precise.
AnonomissX
Banned
Freud Cortana wha? Right over my head. Use small words if you must.
NobleGundam
Banned
Plot-twist: Halo lore has multi - verses
Dat Space/Time Forerunner Crystals
Dat Space/Time Forerunner Crystals
Now we can just blame it on the Domain or something. XD
Yeah, just remembered that chapter was pretty straight forward in events. Oops.
Halsey had a thing for John and it seemingly carried over into Cortana's personality, I guess? I read the implication in a book once.
People still complaining about Reach moving the Autumn for a small amount of time when the entire point was to have a cool callback directly to Halo 1, when 343 retconned the entire concept of Humans being Forerunners. 5 games of lore versus 1 book (it's their franchise, they can do that).
I'd rather have games be games than being beholden to promotional books.
If your entire problem with Reach has nothing to do with the game itself, but another piece of content in another medium, I just feel bad for you.
I'd rather have games be games than being beholden to promotional books.
If your entire problem with Reach has nothing to do with the game itself, but another piece of content in another medium, I just feel bad for you.
It didn't really bug me much tbh. I thought it was neat how they at least tried to fit things into 10-yr old lore.
I was more impressed with the Halsey journal production more than anything. Love that bit of paraphernalia.
I quite enjoyed the game. Another iteration of the New Alexandria level would be pretty awesome.
The humans were the forerunners? Where was that alluded to?
Huh, I can't have been paying much attention during that scene.
Honestly, I didn't follow the story that closely for the first few games. Played them mostly in coop, so I didn't pay too much attention. I'm going to have to replay them again.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Everywhere?
Halo 1-3
RSB
Banned
Agreed. The last few levels of Reach really hit me hard emotionally as a long-time Halo player. Hearing Captain Keyes' voice over the radio again made my heart go all a flutter. And then there was Lone Wolf... *tears*
It all worked within the sphere of a video game, and it was captivating stuff really. Should Bungie have tried a bit harder to fit the story within the existing cannon? Probably. But at the end of the day I think they were more concerned with having a game play coherently on its own and with respect to the other existing Halo games rather than the extended media.
I'm glad 343i IS putting in the effort to tie all the universe together through all the various media that's out there though. And for the record, even though since not long after the release of Halo CE it was speculated that humans WERE the Forerunners or at least an offshoot of them, I was never particularly a fan of that story concept anyway--just a wee bit cliché for my tastes.
Except one is the mutterings of mad AIs and hints, the other is flat-out stated chronology. Far easier to overwrite one than the other, especially when there was contradictory information for the former.
I've got plenty of issues with Reach. The retcons are simply the easiest problems to have removed.
Poodlestrike
Banned
My issue isn't the retcon in and of itself, it's that the end result was as compelling as the original work. Fall of Reach is a better story than the game, even in the areas they contradict.
Except they are two different mediums. One is a book you are reading, another is a game you are playing. You can't expect Bungie to spend years trying to make a fun game while being shoehorned into an exact story that was written like 9 years before from someone not even affiliated with the studio. In the end, the games supercede the books, comics, novels as the primary medium for Halo.
Just look at the new Star Wars movie coming out, people are going to say the same thing if the story isn't as good, why can't they use the official Lucasfilm expanded universe stuff.
One of Halo's strengths is that the expanded universe is considered canon, and has a level of quality that's fairly surprising, when you compare it to the massive piles of dreck that accumulated in Star Trek and Star Wars. Quality over quantity is definitely a virtue for franchises, and I'm hopeful that the poor product that resulted from handing things over to produce Nightfall will encourage 343 to be more exacting when they select their fiction partners.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I doubt that's anyone's entire problem with Reach lol
It was definitely cool though, regardless of it being inaccurate to previously established fiction.
DanteThePyro
Neo Member
My problem is they could have worked within the books narrative to much the same effect. Without the need to shoehorn S-III's on Reach and the other half dozen retcons they made. Had they taken it from the point of view of Red team the story would have been more compelling and smooth the edges to a few of their changes, for me at least. Their narrative of "you already know how it ends" works equally well so long as you aren't playing as Fred, Kelly or the few other S-II's that made it through the ground war on Reach.
This.
Contact Harvest was a great book- and established that the Covenant contact with humans happened only because humans were forerunners (Humans showed up as Forerunner artifacts on their detection systems). When the covies came down looking for what they saw on their screens, they found humans, and the whole shitstorm began.
100% more interesting than knight robots, two didacts and god knows what else.
Poodlestrike
Banned
But there's no part of the story that necessitates changing it for the game. It'd be one thing if they were making an adaptation; there's no way for them to do that without changing a lot. But that's not what's going on; you could fit the majority of the story in to the book canon without changing a thing. Bungie's version of the battle for Reach just wasn't as good as Nylund's, and they didn't have to be different at all.
I always chalked that up to the Covenant basically copying Forerunner systems, and those Forerunner systems recognizing Human technology due to the whole reclaimer thing.
That makes sense, I doubt anybody is really going to spend time trying to mishmash a book from over a decade into the story.
Digital Limit
Member
Is the MCC fixed yet?
The Jackdog
Member
Hey buddy its Fender.
And no.
Its not,
Bravo tweeted today that the upcoming CU, the one in development for over a month, is just MM and parties too. Ranks (for example) are future updates
Digital Limit
Member
If I can consistently and quickly play BTB I'll be pretty happy. Ranks can come later.
And hey Chuck, what are you playing these days?
The Jackdog
Member
Sure as hell not halo!
Little destiny with friends cause its terrible alone, some evolve here and there but that game reset my ranks after playing for multiple hours. Twice. So ive lost interest there even though i really like that game.
Honestly and this is probably telling, ive been playing IDARB the most. The local multiplayer is amazing. Its simple, easy to pick up, tell a friend the controls are basically 3 buttons, and youre off. Most of all....it works.
This generation has been kind of ass for multiplayer.Great, but completely broken games. I keep looking at the pinned tile of halo wanting to play it but every time i do its just a less than stellar experience and more frustrating than fun.
I dont even like destiny but as far as online multiplayer its the king right now cause when i want to do something in the game, specifically play with friends, it doesnt fall apart. Its frustrating for gameplay reasons, which is a lot easier to deal with.
What about you?
H==F is alluded to all over the place in the original Halo trilogy, and as much as you might blow it off as "mutterings of mad AIs", it seems absurd that they'd drop 343GS's comment at the climactic event of the trilogy if it was just a restatement of the blatantly obvious symbolism everywhere. Even if it's not stated explicitly by a reliable party, it's narratively obvious and elegant.
We even have a post from long-time Bungie developer David Candland saying that H!=F is a retcon.
I suppose I tend to differ with most people as to what can be most problematic. Sometimes contradicting details isn't that big of a deal if it doesn't significantly harm the narrative flow and meaning, and contradicting ideas can be extremely damaging even if it doesn't explicitly disagree with a flow of events.
The biggest issue I have with Reach's timeline is that the game feels like it takes place over a couple days; it seems unconvincing and nonsensical as a month-long thing, regardless of how it might interact with other media.
Digital Limit
Member
Yes, this generation has been terrible for online gaming. The closest I've come to greatness is GTAV, but that's still a chore to get setup and a play session can easily and often be ruined by server issues. When the conceit is that you're going to be in a world populated by only a handful of players, it's a bummer. But still, I've had some fun with that and can't wait for Heists.
Similarly to you, I've been doing a lot of "local" gaming instead. As I've mentioned many times before, Chariot is actually a fantastic cooperative experience, so I've been working through that with a friend of mine who digs breaking the physics and combo'ing with different abilities. It's a testament to the game that collecting obscure gems is largely unnecessary but we do it anyway because the challenge is its own reward.
We've also had a lot of fun just playing single player games as a group. Telltale games are basically perfect as essentially a social movie experience, so playing through A Wolf Among Us and now Game of Thrones has been great. And punishing games like Volgarr the Viking have been fun to trade off in.
I haven't touched IDARB yet. And although I own Jackbox, it also hasn't seen much love. But they're on the list, and I'm sure Rayman Legends will be on there soon, too.
Really, when it comes to online gaming, I've been mostly playing Steam games. Divinity: Original Sin is the cooperative game I play with my brother who's back in Wisconsin and Don't Starve Together is the cooperative game I play with my friend who's back there, too. We also fucked around with Gauntlet for a hot minute, but that game is kind of bad.
Certainly not Halo though, yeah. :'(