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Halo |OT 23| Thruster is Love, Thruster is Life

HTupolev

Member
At least The Library has some mindless shooting fun that is not two pair of hunters back to back.
Am I missing something? Keyes has two pairs of hunters back-to-back?

Hunters are only hard on Truth and Reconciliation in Halo CE, because you don't have a Pistol.
Pistol has nothing to do with it. They're easy enough to dodge that you can usually just melee them down if you feel like it, which is one way of keeping things upbeat.

Halo 1's hunters are mostly dangerous when paired with other enemies for support. Which they usually aren't, but there are a few places where you need to tread carefully depending on how you're playing (like the huge battle at the end of Two Betrayals).
 
Hey Elzar

tumblr_nkj2leri801rmsq1go1_250.png
 
Am I missing something? Keyes has two pairs of hunters back-to-back?


Pistol has nothing to do with it. They're easy enough to dodge that you can usually just melee them down if you feel like it, which is one way of keeping things upbeat.

Halo 1's hunters are mostly dangerous when paired with other enemies for support. Which they usually aren't, but there are a few places where you need to tread carefully depending on how you're playing (like the huge battle at the end of Two Betrayals).
Oh damn I thought you are talking about Truth and Reconciliation. Need more Redbull.

Hunters are only hard on Truth and Reconciliation in Halo CE, because you don't have a Pistol. Definitely an enemy that needed a buff, the 1 shot Pistol/Sniper cheese was quite the oversight.
Yeah running in circles with whatever I have at that time is not fun at all, especially if I want to keep a sniper for the achievement.
 

JDHarbs

Member
New OpenSauce features are fantastic so far. Been waiting for a 1.10 compatible OS.

Hopefully this is better than T&R:E, where they just jammed every new weapon in the sandbox.
Technically, that was part of SPv3 which is a different campaign mod entirely. As far as I know, they're unrelated. This is meant to be a standalone redesign of Silent Cartographer.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
What happened to Dan Ayoub? Why's everyone talking about him?
 

Ramirez

Member
What happened to Dan Ayoub? Why's everyone talking about him?

He's been absent from Twitter, so Team Beyond and other goofs like Proven Deadly have a witch hunt going on for him, as if he is the sole reason for the MCC's problem. If Frankie was receiving death threats, I'm sure Ayoub was too. Him tweeting would accomplish nothing, as he could say nothing to satisfy the mouth breathers of the internet. The MCC was forced out for Black Friday, and trying to pin that on one guy is childish.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
He's been absent from Twitter, so Team Beyond and other goofs like Proven Deadly have a witch hunt going on for him, as if he is the sole reason for the MCC's problem. If Frankie was receiving death threats, I'm sure Ayoub was too. Him tweeting would accomplish nothing, as he could say nothing to satisfy the mouth breathers of the internet. The MCC was forced out for Black Friday, and trying to pin that on one guy is childish.
Wahrer, make a HaloGAF posts montage and include this one in it. Commission Sai-kun to make some dubstep or something.
 

Booshka

Member
He's been absent from Twitter, so Team Beyond and other goofs like Proven Deadly have a witch hunt going on for him, as if he is the sole reason for the MCC's problem. If Frankie was receiving death threats, I'm sure Ayoub was too. Him tweeting would accomplish nothing, as he could say nothing to satisfy the mouth breathers of the internet. The MCC was forced out for Black Friday, and trying to pin that on one guy is childish.

Entire threads and even Sub-Forums on TeamBeyond could be locked and closed with only this post.
 

Mistel

Banned
They develop more of Buck's early history and his relationship with Dare, as well as bits of what he's been doing since the end of the Covenant War. The other ODSTs get small bits, but it's told from Buck's POV throughout so it's somewhat limited.
Least there's some development, outside of Buck the ODST's weren't too interesting so although they got small bits its still fleshing them out.
 
When you are the lead develepor of a product, and it comes out with a flaw, literally disappearing is one of the worst things you can do. So when you say I or others are "pinning it on one guy" is actually not the case and is more of a straw man argument than anything. The entire 343 team is to blame, and it's just concerning that the leader of the entire game just went MIA. It's one thing to be quiet, it's another thing to just disappear for months while the game that you had a serious part in making is broken. Like if the leader of the entire damn development can disappear, what does that say for everyone else???

I guess I expected the "Executive Director at 343" to be more vocal than an everyday dev at 343, but I guess I'm in the wrong!
 

GrizzNKev

Banned
When you are the lead develepor of a product, and it comes out with a flaw, literally disappearing is one of the worst things you can do. So when you say I or others are "pinning it on one guy" is actually not the case and is more of a straw man argument than anything. The entire 343 team is to blame, and it's just concerning that the leader of the entire game just went MIA. It's one thing to be quiet, it's another thing to just disappear for months while the game that you had a serious part in making is broken. Like if the leader of the entire damn development can disappear, what does that say for everyone else???

I guess I expected the "Executive Director at 343" to be more vocal than an everyday dev at 343, but I guess I'm in the wrong!

The culture and communication style of Microsoft makes situations like these extremely difficult to handle. There's pressure coming from every direction, and especially on a project like this, throwing one or more contracted dev teams under the bus is not an option. We'll never know the names of the people who were responsible for forcing this game to be released the way it was, and we'll never see a Microsoft employee accuse or blame anyone involved. That's just the way it is.
 
The culture and communication style of Microsoft makes situations like these extremely difficult to handle. There's pressure coming from every direction, and especially on a project like this, throwing one or more contracted dev teams under the bus is not an option. We'll never know the names of the people who were responsible for forcing this game to be released the way it was, and we'll never see a Microsoft employee accuse or blame anyone involved. That's just the way it is.

But dude.....6.4M without using bombs and 1.8M before the first death.

Who cares about this drama after you got to witness that miracle?
 
The strange part is in dev circles being open about fixes, patch notes, roadmaps and more is quite transparent with Microsoft. I'm unsure why gaming is/would be any different from that perspective.
 
When you are the lead develepor of a product, and it comes out with a flaw, literally disappearing is one of the worst things you can do. So when you say I or others are "pinning it on one guy" is actually not the case and is more of a straw man argument than anything. The entire 343 team is to blame, and it's just concerning that the leader of the entire game just went MIA. It's one thing to be quiet, it's another thing to just disappear for months while the game that you had a serious part in making is broken. Like if the leader of the entire damn development can disappear, what does that say for everyone else???

I guess I expected the "Executive Director at 343" to be more vocal than an everyday dev at 343, but I guess I'm in the wrong!
Who the fuck cares, leave the guy alone. 343 owes you an explanation. Dan Ayoub does not. The game studio should be more vocal about the state of their product, not one guy at said game studio. Its none of your business why a developer at a game studio for a series you like stopped using Twitter.
 

Akai__

Member
Who the fuck cares, leave the guy alone. 343 owes you an explanation. Dan Ayoub does not. The game studio should be more vocal about the state of their product, not one guy at said game studio. Its none of your business why a developer at a game studio for a series you like stopped using Twitter.

Yup.

I just hope he's not the one MS is blaming or something. He's probably fine outside of the bullshit he has to deal with from "fans".
 

Madness

Member
Yup.

I just hope he's not the one MS is blaming or something. He's probably fine outside of the bullshit he has to deal with from "fans".

Why wouldn't he be blamed? He's the executive producer in charge on the MCC project and was it's public face. Dan Ayoub, Dennis Ries are the executive and senior producers on this game. The buck stops with them for the problems with the project. I agree the witch hunt is ridiculous and Dan has no reason to start using Twitter again if he doesn't want to. Plus MS and Bonnie probably said to keep a low profile. Why would he want to engage with fans who are just going to insult him? What can he say? He already issued an official apology when it launched, and is probably going to wait until the game finally works before he engages fans/community again.
 

Havok

Member
When you are the lead develepor of a product, and it comes out with a flaw, literally disappearing is one of the worst things you can do. So when you say I or others are "pinning it on one guy" is actually not the case and is more of a straw man argument than anything. The entire 343 team is to blame, and it's just concerning that the leader of the entire game just went MIA. It's one thing to be quiet, it's another thing to just disappear for months while the game that you had a serious part in making is broken. Like if the leader of the entire damn development can disappear, what does that say for everyone else???

I guess I expected the "Executive Director at 343" to be more vocal than an everyday dev at 343, but I guess I'm in the wrong!
Thought experiment: What is he going to say, as an ambitious member of a much larger division, wholly owned by a massive parent company with wholesale control over your division's PR efforts, who have a microscope on what's going out of your communication channels? More specifically, what is he going to say that a member of 343 has not already?

"We experienced some quality issues with our vendor selection." - Good luck negotiating favorable terms or managing that relationship if those vendors are ever needed again for future products (and this is how corporations work - they'll be used again.).

"The delivery timelines were not realistic." - Turns out that the massive multinational corporation that signs the checks is not on the table to be criticized here.

"I'm sorry!" -- It's been covered. It's been covered and the press reported on it and that part is over for them, they're on to focusing on the fixes in terms of PR. It's not going to happen, and frankly at this point the horse has been beaten into a bloody pulp. Is it right? Hey, that's up to you, I guess.


When you're given an unrealistic project to manage, and you don't get a say in the timelines for delivery, it's not really on you to fall on the sword. It was handled poorly. The entire project is a disaster. It's not really defensible. This one guy, no matter what he needed to say at a launch party, has no obligation to make himself a target for crappy people and the bloodlust that I'm sure he's seen as a public figure related to MCC is a little weird. That's not to say you're an active proponent of these things or that you condone it - I'm sure you don't, just that I am confident he's had some horrible, horrible stuff directed his way and if I were in his position, I'd shut it all down too. In a heartbeat. The guy's got a family and people are awful.

Moreover, the guy said a lot of stuff pre-release (because that is his job), and as a result I don't think his voice is nearly as effective as it once was in the public eye. That's just a result of him needing to promote a product that didn't turn out well. They're not going to use him for PR when there are more effective voices that they have in their stable, because no matter what, you would see "oh but remember what he said about MCC?" Staying off the radar entirely is probably the best move.

The strange part is in dev circles being open about fixes, patch notes, roadmaps and more is quite transparent with Microsoft. I'm unsure why gaming is/would be any different from that perspective.
Because the gaming audience is, pound-for-pound, more likely to be filled with petulant children that hang onto every word like it's a promise and/or don't understand that things change during product cycles. Transparency hasn't typically worked out super well.
 
Witch hunts are unfair, often ignorant and largely unproductive.

Unfortunately when you're the main presenter and speaker around a product, you tend to become the focal point of positive / negative feedback on it
(take a look at how people still treated Notch as the main Minecraft guy when he had stopped working on it and was working on other projects).

It happens all too often, but as someone stepping into that role you unfortunately have to accept the "good" and bad that comes with that. [At least if your company is going to maintain the status quo re: PR]

I can largely only feel sympathy for the developers, especially those who did not make the decision to ship it.

I do tend to be in the camp of "they really had no idea how broken it was" though, which really does induce a big head shake.
 
I think people defending Dan Ayoub need to remember its not his silence thats making people mad, its how talkative and how much he talked up MCC before launch, only to completely vanish when things got hard
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Oh really? Damn. I thought it looked off in the trailer but impressive for some hacky community project. That's disappointing.

I played a beta of it, I think it's quite good. It's not supposed to be "we made the real definitive version of this map!", it's sort of a blend of all the Halo games. There's some iffy design choices if it were a standalone game—all those weapons in the sandbox, etc.—but I think it's an impressive and fun thing to play through.

Legendary is ridiculously hard, though.
 

dwells

Member
Unreal 4 really is amazing. First thing I did when I downloaded it last year was import Master Chief from Halo PC into the character controller, and used some mod tools to get the original animations in too. I tested it out with the 3rd person template, and this is what I got:

TotalExhaustedBirdofparadise.gif


Its not much, but the UE4 part was incredibly easy compared to getting the models and animations out of Halo PC. I haven't touched it much since then because I moved on to the 1st person template to try to and get the FP arms and animations working with weapons, but I couldn't figure out how to get the weapons to animate correctly in 3DS Max. I'm so used to using Maya that I had to spend most of my time learning Max before I could do anything else.
Nice work, that's pretty awesome. I wish I knew how to do things in 3D modeling and animation like that. I tinkered with 3DSMax and importing extracted Halo 2 models back in the day, but never got far and understood what I was doing outside of following some help and instructions from someone who works for Bungie now. Seems like something you really need formal training and/or artistic talent for - technical and programming ability alone weren't enough for me.

Anniversary version is a looker, but the lack of visible Elite shields kills the gameplay for me.
Wait, that's not just a glitch I've been running into? Oh man, that irritated the absolute hell out of me - it's practically game breaking! Do we know if it's a bug, or was it actually a design decision?

Pretty awesome what the old engine (and the community) can do in terms of visuals and features.
 

ElRenoRaven

Member
Yea I think it's nuts that people are trying to blame Dan for all this. Let's be honest. At the end of the day 343 could beg and plead all they wanted but there is one company who had the final say on the release of the game. That is the Microsoft execs who set the date in stone and would not allow it to be changed. I really can't fathom 343 knowing it is broken as shit and them just going meh ok release it.

If anything I would wager that behind the scenes Dan and other folks at 343 were probably begging and pleading for a delay. At the end of the day MS probably refused and simply said get it done or else. Hence we got the broken buggy piece of shit that was released.

I mean hell as much as many here hated Halo 4 you could not deny that on a technical level it was damn good quality. So we know that when given time 343 can create a technically sound product. So that leaves only one reason this was such a mess and that is that they were not given enough time to catch the problems and get them fixed.

Ugh. I can't believe I just defended 343. I mean I respect the folks that work there except maybe 1 person. I don't think any of them mean to harm Halo. I really don't. I just disagree with where they are taking it. I do think they're all good folks though.

With that said FIX YO SHIT 343!!!!
 

willow ve

Member
I think people defending Dan Ayoub need to remember its not his silence thats making people mad, its how talkative and how much he talked up MCC before launch, only to completely vanish when things got hard

The overarching problem in this situation is just how far reaching the complaints for this product truly are. No one could have predicted how bad it was (or would continue to be months after launch). Even if 343 knew full well that some parts of matchmaking were broken it would have been reasonable to think that those problems would take a month or two (at most) to sort out. It's difficult to estimate timelines when the full extent of the issue isn't well understood.

The reason people are zeroing in on Dan Ayoub is as you suggest. He was promoting his new product like crazy with some enticing quotes leading up to launch. Now there's been nothing for months.

It would be nice if someone at 343 would step up to the plate and simply lay out an honest description of the MCC launch and all of things that were (and still are) clearly broken. From forge issues, to maps and gametypes being vanilla day one launch settings, to ranks not being turned on, to ranks not seeming to matter when they are visible, etc. We'll probably never get that unless an employee leaves or someone does a dump to github or an anonymous source emerges.

For better or worse MS / 343 seem to be following the mantra of most of the corporate world: Never admit mistakes - use PR speak to talk about how you're working hard to ensure the best experience for your end user. Talk a lot about how hard everyone is working, and the long hours required therein, to ensure it's a great collection, but never actually detail what is being worked on.

It's the same in almost any industry or any large corporate entity. The frustration with this form of communication is compounded in the video game developer / fan relationship because for a long time we've been used to hearing from the creators. We've grown accustomed to getting direct feedback from Stinkles or lybertyboy. To have an entire studio basically go dark (for a month+ now) about the state of their product is a drastic change. Avoiding the usually caustic HaloGAF thread is understood (maybe even recommended when accounting for the amount of vitriol vomited about here - yes, even from me), but to avoid everyone, everywhere, seems like a mistake. It feels like an ostrich burying their head in the sand.
 
Yea I think it's nuts that people are trying to blame Dan for all this. Let's be honest. At the end of the day 343 could beg and plead all they wanted but there is one company who had the final say on the release of the game. That is the Microsoft execs who set the date in stone and would not allow it to be changed. I really can't fathom 343 knowing it is broken as shit and them just going meh ok release it.

If anything I would wager that behind the scenes Dan and other folks at 343 were probably begging and pleading for a delay. At the end of the day MS probably refused and simply said get it done or else. Hence we got the broken buggy piece of shit that was released.

I mean hell as much as many here hated Halo 4 you could not deny that on a technical level it was damn good quality. So we know that when given time 343 can create a technically sound product. So that leaves only one reason this was such a mess and that is that they were not given enough time to catch the problems and get them fixed.

Ugh. I can't believe I just defended 343. I mean I respect the folks that work there except maybe 1 person. I don't think any of them mean to harm Halo. I really don't. I just disagree with where they are taking it. I do think they're all good folks though.

With that said FIX YO SHIT 343!!!!

Thats all speculation though, all of it.

Whos to say 343 said everything was good to go? theyve said time and time again the matchmaking issues didnt manifest until AFTER launch, and thats far and away the biggest issue. Yeah there are a bunch of little ones all over the place but for all we know 343 considered them acceptable bugs before release.

You used halo 4 as an example, but halo 4 released with a number of missing promised features (file share for instance). For all we know, 343 considered a lot of the problems here as high as a priority as file share pre release, and thought everything was going to be fine.

We dont know what happened. No one from anywhere is talking.
 
The overarching problem in this situation is just how far reaching the complaints for this product truly are. No one could have predicted how bad it was (or would continue to be months after launch). Even if 343 knew full well that some parts of matchmaking were broken it would have been reasonable to think that those problems would take a month or two (at most) to sort out. It's difficult to estimate timelines when the full extent of the issue isn't well understood.

The reason people are zeroing in on Dan Ayoub is as you suggest. He was promoting his new product like crazy with some enticing quotes leading up to launch. Now there's been nothing for months.

It would be nice if someone at 343 would step up to the plate and simply lay out an honest description of the MCC launch and all of things that were (and still are) clearly broken. From forge issues, to maps and gametypes being vanilla day one launch settings, to ranks not being turned on, to ranks not seeming to matter when they are visible, etc. We'll probably never get that unless an employee leaves or someone does a dump to github or an anonymous source emerges.

For better or worse MS / 343 seem to be following the mantra of most of the corporate world: Never admit mistakes - use PR speak to talk about how you're working hard to ensure the best experience for your end user. Talk a lot about how hard everyone is working, and the long hours required therein, to ensure it's a great collection, but never actually detail what is being worked on.

It's the same in almost any industry or any large corporate entity. The frustration with this form of communication is compounded in the video game developer / fan relationship because for a long time we've been used to hearing from the creators. We've grown accustomed to getting direct feedback from Stinkles or lybertyboy. To have an entire studio basically go dark (for a month+ now) about the state of their product is a drastic change. Avoiding the usually caustic HaloGAF thread is understood (maybe even recommended when accounting for the amount of vitriol vomited about here - yes, even from me), but to avoid everyone, everywhere, seems like a mistake. It feels like an ostrich burying their head in the sand.

Yeah i pretty much agree with a ton of this. This is interesting to me:

It's the same in almost any industry or any large corporate entity. The frustration with this form of communication is compounded in the video game developer / fan relationship because for a long time we've been used to hearing from the creators. We've grown accustomed to getting direct feedback from Stinkles or lybertyboy. To have an entire studio basically go dark (for a month+ now) about the state of their product is a drastic change.

I really think the lack of communication is for a very specific reason: keep MCC the hell out of the news cycle. If anyone from 343 speaks, someone is gonna publish something about it. Why allow that to happen? If im a PR manager, and I have two options: my game in the news cycle about it being broken, or not in the news cycle at all, but with a brand as strong as halo to carry sales, im telling everyone shut the hell up till its fixed right?
 

Akai__

Member
Why wouldn't he be blamed? He's the executive producer in charge on the MCC project and was it's public face. Dan Ayoub, Dennis Ries are the executive and senior producers on this game. The buck stops with them for the problems with the project. I agree the witch hunt is ridiculous and Dan has no reason to start using Twitter again if he doesn't want to. Plus MS and Bonnie probably said to keep a low profile. Why would he want to engage with fans who are just going to insult him? What can he say? He already issued an official apology when it launched, and is probably going to wait until the game finally works before he engages fans/community again.

Because, like you said he was the public face. We don't know what happened behind the scenes and I'm not that ignorant to blame 1 single person.

For the rest, I agree with everything you said.
 
The overarching problem in this situation is just how far reaching the complaints for this product truly are. No one could have predicted how bad it was (or would continue to be months after launch). Even if 343 knew full well that some parts of matchmaking were broken it would have been reasonable to think that those problems would take a month or two (at most) to sort out. It's difficult to estimate timelines when the full extent of the issue isn't well understood.

The reason people are zeroing in on Dan Ayoub is as you suggest. He was promoting his new product like crazy with some enticing quotes leading up to launch. Now there's been nothing for months.

It would be nice if someone at 343 would step up to the plate and simply lay out an honest description of the MCC launch and all of things that were (and still are) clearly broken. From forge issues, to maps and gametypes being vanilla day one launch settings, to ranks not being turned on, to ranks not seeming to matter when they are visible, etc. We'll probably never get that unless an employee leaves or someone does a dump to github or an anonymous source emerges.

For better or worse MS / 343 seem to be following the mantra of most of the corporate world: Never admit mistakes - use PR speak to talk about how you're working hard to ensure the best experience for your end user. Talk a lot about how hard everyone is working, and the long hours required therein, to ensure it's a great collection, but never actually detail what is being worked on.

It's the same in almost any industry or any large corporate entity. The frustration with this form of communication is compounded in the video game developer / fan relationship because for a long time we've been used to hearing from the creators. We've grown accustomed to getting direct feedback from Stinkles or lybertyboy. To have an entire studio basically go dark (for a month+ now) about the state of their product is a drastic change. Avoiding the usually caustic HaloGAF thread is understood (maybe even recommended when accounting for the amount of vitriol vomited about here - yes, even from me), but to avoid everyone, everywhere, seems like a mistake. It feels like an ostrich burying their head in the sand.

That's the best analysis of the situation out there. bravo.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
I think people defending Dan Ayoub need to remember its not his silence thats making people mad, its how talkative and how much he talked up MCC before launch, only to completely vanish when things got hard
You mean he did hos job as a presenter? Fuck that guy.

I don't blame him though I still think it is ironic that he is the only one to not say sonething about the game.
 
You mean he did hos job as a presenter? Fuck that guy.

I don't blame him though I still think it is ironic that he is the only one to not say sonething about the game.

Well he was the "face" of the game right?

So when the face of the game goes silent, the community obviously thinks 343 is being silent
 

Karl2177

Member
Can we have a witch hunt on provendeadly for having a witch hunt on Dan Ayoub? We'll call it Chain of Witches, which will be promptly stolen by Bungie for the name of some shitty Pulse Rifle.
 

dwells

Member
Don't reduce people's concerns to being a witch hunt or crucifying a single person for all of the problems. It's not about that. It's about having some accountability and showing care toward the community.

Look, no matter what the situation is, it's bad form to have someone whose role was as a hype man and community promoter to go completely and utterly silent a mere two days after the game launches and is discovered to be broken. There's no way around that - it's just flat out bad form and bad community relations.

Is it his fault alone that the game is broken? No, probably not. Should he be involved with the community and addressing the state of the game anyway? Yes, absolutely. When you hype something up and make statements like these to sell something to people, you've got to be there afterward when things don't go well. Whether or not he has the power to make a big difference, disappearing like he has is disrespectful to the community.

I'm not a huge fan of Frankie, but at least he's been posting a bit here and there on here about the game. Why isn't Dan capable of doing the same, especially after all the hype?
 
Don't reduce people's concerns to being a witch hunt or crucifying a single person for all of the problems. It's not about that. It's about having some accountability and showing care toward the community.

Look, no matter what the situation is, it's bad form to have someone whose role was as a hype man and community promoter to go completely and utterly silent a mere two days after the game launches and is discovered to be broken. There's no way around that - it's just flat out bad form and bad community relations.

Is it his fault alone that the game is broken? No, probably not. Should he be involved with the community and addressing the state of the game anyway? Yes, absolutely. When you hype something up and make statements like these to sell something to people, you've got to be there afterward when things don't go well. Whether or not he has the power to make a big difference, disappearing like he has is disrespectful to the community.

I'm not a huge fan of Frankie, but at least he's been posting a bit here and there on here about the game. Why isn't Dan capable of doing the same, especially after all the hype?

"fastest, fairest matchmaking system we've ever seen."
 
With GDC ongoing as well as Pax East starting up later this week, do we expect any campaign information? I remember that we got a tease for Halo 4 back at GDC 2012. E3 is such a long way off..
 
With GDC ongoing as well as Pax East starting up later this week, do we expect any campaign information? I remember that we got a tease for Halo 4 back at GDC 2012. E3 is such a long way off..

E3 is 3 months away. TMCC hasn't worked for almost 4 months. So no, it's not that long of a wait.
 
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