eww...I'm glad that didn't happen.
I don't get why people like sprint though. Same thing with traditional ADS...
In a modern-day military shooter, ADS makes the game feel more realistic, but for arena shooters, I don't see the point.
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Halo |OT 23| Thruster is Love, Thruster is Life
- Thread starter VisceralBowl
- Start date
eww...I'm glad that didn't happen.
I don't get why people like sprint though. Same thing with traditional ADS...
In a modern-day military shooter, ADS makes the game feel more realistic, but for arena shooters, I don't see the point.
Because it feels right and natural now.
I know sprint is bad for Halo gameplay. But going back to play Halo 1/2/3 I'm constantly like Arrrghhh I wish I could just sprint over there.
I know its bad, but it still feels like I should have it. Just the way it is.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Yup, how quickly people forget (not implying anyone specifically) or perhaps they just weren't posting on forums at that time. Sprint has been long requested but then again so has an increase in base movement speed. I feel like those advocating for sprint have done so because they think Halo with faster movement speed would equate to Quake levels of movement, which I would personally be fine with or at the very least would loveeeee to try out without feeling like ice skates, which is what happens when you push movement too high in Custom Games.
That X button though!! It's definitely sprint! Frikkin Bungie and their PR spins.. I really don't mean to offend anyone with this but I strongly feel like with Destiny, Bungie finally has the fanbase they wanted all along, not the complicated Halo multiplayer fanbase breathing down their necks. I do not envy the management team at 343, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't love to be a part of it lol
I honestly don't mind it as much as a lot of hardcore Halo fans do, I think it speeds up the gameplay, especially with clambering ledges and being able to thrust from Truth base windows with sprint/thrust...it adds a feeling of arena gameplay, like Quake's strafe jumping.
I enjoy Halo 5, but the connection issues must be resolved for launch day. If the same crap happens launch week, then it's going to open up another bag of garbage.
On top of this, people who don't like Halo 5, weren't going to feel too bad about it because MCC is here to provide the classic Halo experience, but when that doesn't work...what do you do?
RSB
Banned
Heh, I'm the opposite. Going back to Halo 1-3 feels liberating. Love the flow of the classic Halo games where moving and shooting weren't artificially separated with awful mechanics like sprint and clamber.
Run and gun > run or gun (especially now that every console shooter falls into the run or gun category)
Nah, I can go back to the original trilogy and the gameplay is still as good as ever. Nothing to do with feelings or nostalgia, just game design.
No, it isn't. In Halo 1-3 (and ODST) you can move at max speed and still shoot your gun. Now you have to choose between moving at max speed and shooting your gun, therefore, run or gun.
Halo 2's ranking system was far better, perhaps due to being simpler. You could do the math out on paper, and it made sense. To this date, I'm yet to see a game do a better system that gave such close, competitive matches. Certainly nothing as rewarding.
Only possible improvement would be tightening the rank variance boundary. i.e. if you searched with a low level in your party to match lower people, it worked, because the game had a wide allowance - the level 1 or whatever would be treated as something like seven ranks lower than the highest player in the party. So a 37, 38, 39 and a 15, the game treated it as a 37, 38, 39, and 32, which averages out to 36.5. Meaning once you factored in the additional party variance allowance, you could match against a team of 35, 35, 36, 37 - still unfair, especially considering that 15 in your party is probably actually a 40.
By reducing the team match and party adjustment variances to something a bit tighter, it would be damn close to perfect.
Halo 3's system, however, was a step backwards. The first major flaw was what I call "rank inflation." Like grade inflation, values were puffed up to make people look better and feel all good about themselves and their decision. I sucked at Halo 3 and never really got into the game, but I had a 50 in Team Slayer and MLG and a couple other playlists as well. That shouldn't have been the case - top tier ranks ought to be reserved for top tier players.
Other flaws included over-complication and inconsistency. You'd have players in a party who would go on the same winning spree as you, but wouldn't rank up for whatever reason. Part of the issue stemmed from the fact that Bungie attempted to merge incentivized rank progression with TrueSkill, a system which was developed around minimizing the number of games needed to identify a player's skill (and thus ignores human nature and the competitiveness which can stem from a pride-linked system like Halo 2's).
Sprint was dumb in Reach and 4 but it is balanced here to the point where I don't mind it either.
I think I'd rather have it than not as it will probably help bring people into the game and make them stay.
It's not just the " non-halo fans" but most Halo fans probably want sprint to stay also.
And there is a decent population of gamers that do not like the newer entries in those series because they do not represent any leap forward in design.
Munch Poke
Member
Personally after seeing the Halo 3 trailer where chief sprints into the horde of brutes I assumed sprint was in at that point. And then you play H3 and you're moving slower than a snail in molasses. Ill take fast gameplay over slow any day.
And I've really had to retrain myself in 5 to not immediately sprint off after a firefight, the new mechanic is pretty punishing in that regard.
And I've really had to retrain myself in 5 to not immediately sprint off after a firefight, the new mechanic is pretty punishing in that regard.
I'm amazed by the progression of FPS games on the console and all of the things that have changed over the years basically across the board with all major FPS franchises.
I think back at Halo CE, it had health packs, regnerating shields but not health, fall damage, etc.
I think back about Call of Duty on the PC, no regenerating health, there were health packs on the map, recoil on the weapons, no sprint.
Then around the era of sequels for Halo 2 and Call of Duty 2, we start seeing huge changes in FPS games, the modification of health in-game, it becomes regenerating and we see health packs go away. Fall damage goes away, at least in Halo 2, it was still there in COD2. Recoil gets drastically reduced in COD2. Mini-map blips start to come into play with COD2 and Halo 2 (I know there was already a motion tracker, but it becomes the norm for matchmaking).
Post-2004, we start seeing shifts in FPS design, more and more we see crutch-style gameplay mechanics meant to lower the barrier of entry for players. Call of Duty 4 launches the perks and kill-streak gameplay, then everyone starts to copy it in some way. Battlefield even starts to change up its game, post-Battlefield 2 on PC, once BF starting developing for consoles, the game drastically made changes, things became simple and streamlined, instead of medics, we had self-healing syringes. ADS starts becoming a norm across all-modern-day miltary FPS games.
It's just insane how much of an effect COD4 had on the FPS industry. When people go back to play HCE...this is why they feel so weird in the game, because all of the stuff they've been used to since 2004 is basically non-existant, so playing the game feels like a chore because there are no hand-outs or hand-holding in HCE.
I think the one game that has stayed true to its form is Counter-strike. Since 1998 that game has basically stayed exactly the same. Gotta give credit to Valve for sticking to their guns and not conforming.
Why do those games need a leap forward in design?
Can you give an example of what's missing from CS, SC2, and Quake that makes them inferior today?
I am not necessarily saying anything is missing, but at that point why come out with a new game? Why not just have DLC and graphic updates if the gameplay is going to remain untouched. For better or worse, I'd rather have a company try something different with a new release that just recycle the same old stuff. Look at how halo changed from 1-3 and then look at call of duty. The former had small, though significant, changes throughout the series that made each game feel fresh whereas the latter remained mostly stagnant and became dull.
Great overall post, and this part really resonates for me. I have so, so many great memories that involve Halo 2. Making new friends online, meeting people in person, traveling to tournaments, pulse-pounding matchmaking games at high ranks, having rivals and enemies once you were high enough up to be playing against small player pools, playing floor vs. floor 8v8 LAN games in dorms, just getting friends together to chat and goof around in a custom game, etc. It was a gaming and social experience like no other, and I really miss it.
I made real, lasting friends through Halo 2. I still talk to two of them on a nearly daily basis. I and another friend from Halo who had previously met went out to Vegas and we met up with another friend, who hooked us up with a timeshare to stay in and partied and gambled with us for a weekend. People from across the country and all walks of life - one's a bodybuilder and trainer, one a luxury goods salesman, one a journalist, another a Marine, and so on - who all became friends through an online game they all enjoyed. That's pretty damn incredible.
As time passed and we all got older and busier (I still can't believe it's been over ten years since Halo 2 came out), naturally a lot of us have drifted apart somewhat. It's hard to find time when you're moving, working full-time, married, buying a house, and so on.
This game was supposed to give us a chance to relive the times we had ten years ago. But it's failed miserably at doing so. No one wants to put down $400+ and use what little free time they have for a broken mess. Of everyone, only three of us bought and still have an Xbox One and Master Chief Collection, and none of even bother playing it.
So much for reliving the good old days.
I told the guys last night, I think many of you are just longing for that feeling you had playing those games in their prime. The people you played with, and the point you were at in your life played a major role in that feeling. As I've gotten older, I've longed for games to keep me in that place, but they never live up to my expectations, and never produce the same magical feeling. Even if MCC worked, my group that played Halo 3 still wouldn't be intact because most have moved on in life.
Just my feelings on the subject, but I'm loving 5, and think it's a very honest attempt at capturing that old gameplay, while still moving forward. The AAA console space just doesn't work like most of you want it to.
Just my feelings on the subject, but I'm loving 5, and think it's a very honest attempt at capturing that old gameplay, while still moving forward. The AAA console space just doesn't work like most of you want it to.
Fahzgoolin
Banned
With honest introspection this is certainly part of the issue. When you are a child and a teen, a lot of games were an almost surreal magical feeling of joy and intensity.
We have gotten older and we are maturing while our desires lag behind. Not that enjoying video games is inherently immature, but we just don't have the time for it anymore.
A lot of us as we get older will have a really hard time accepting new music. Newer music to a previous generation is typically repulsive.
I think games are very much this way, although it's definitely more complicated than that.
Growing up is hard and confusing.
PROh1bited
Banned
Yep I'm done playing the beta. Deleted it last night, I had my fill. 343 still has a lot to do, and I'll still give them the benefit when the full game is released at the end of the year. This series had been in a downward spiral since 3. And I don't see 5 bucking that trend.
Very good point. If Halo 5 was a straight port of Halo 3 it would still fail to bring back the "magic" I associate with that game in it's prime. (though it's still fantastic on it's own) The time in my life, the people I played with (many of which I still game with, but not as regularly), the communities I was involved in... for Halo especially the way I remember games is heavily influenced by a variety of factors outside of the game.
The MCC is really a bittersweet thing to me.
Even though I'm glad it exists, seeing how badly it was delivered (intentional or not) is soul crushing. All the positivity and excitement around it felt great. I can only hope it will be able to recover. It won't ever be as good as it could've been but maybe it can at least be revived.
I'd love to be able to relive all those great memories.
Even though I'm glad it exists, seeing how badly it was delivered (intentional or not) is soul crushing. All the positivity and excitement around it felt great. I can only hope it will be able to recover. It won't ever be as good as it could've been but maybe it can at least be revived.
I'd love to be able to relive all those great memories.
But... it still is run and gun. You're still moving just as fast as in previous Halos (or most of them anyway) without sprinting and can shoot effectively without scoping. There isn't a movement penalty on ADS either so aside from sprint I don't see what you mean.
Alright, the fan base is very varied.
I agree and disagree, it's weird. I can play any good game for any amount of time, the recent trend in fps games have gone more generic blockbuster and modern warfare. It's really bland and tiresome for people like me.
I think the thing that sucks most was this game could have shown new Halo fans why the series was so special to a lot of us, now it's about quitting the build, broken mm and trying to get refunds.
I believe there are games out there that simply do not need to change up their entire formula. Halo for the most part, has been a completely different game each time. You can argue there are a lot of similarities between all the games, but each one has change the Halo formula, each time.
Counter-strike through its updates leading up to 1.6 has been the same CS game the whole time. Only now with CSGO have they actually added some useful stuff like the molotovs, etc. They have made the deathmatch game mode an official mode for matchmaking, you no longer have to depend on community-ran servers to host it, etc. CS in general though doesn't need to change, it's an amazing game.
It's like Chess...I know there are different forms of Chess out there, but Chess, the regular classic game of Chess is good, it's like a good movie not needing a sequel, how many movie sequels have been horrible releases?
I wouldn't have minded if Halo took the Counter-strike route, though that kind of updating doesn't seem to fly on consoles since it's close-ended hardware.
Console players are not used to playing a single game for more than 10 years without needing a sequel to it. Instead, we're at the mercy of developers creating good sequels or updating their games with patches. In the case of Halo...if a certain Halo comes out and we don't like it...usually we have to fall back on the previous Halo, and up until MCC came out...in order to play classic Halo CE...you'd have to have Xbox 360s system linked and put up with the backwards compatibility crap.
MCC though is a godsend for Halo...we get to play any Halo's multiplayer (excluding reach) over Xbox Live...but the ticker here is that naturally it doesn't work right? We have connection issues, we have parties not staying together, we have one ranked playlist when we were promised all playlists would be ranked....
/rant
And that's why I have really enjoyed the MCC. Being able to play the previous games back-to-back makes me appreciate things about the games I never had before, while also appraising some of the questionable things as well in a new light.
I will always have fond memories of Halo 2 1-Flag CTF Relic LAN parties, or getting stomped my first time playing Blood Gulch in my friend's basement in between watching Stephen King's It. But I also appreciate those social moments apart from the games that facilitated them.
As for the CS example, I think part of it comes done to pure culture. PC gaming has enshrined playing the same game for decades in a way that is unconscionable on a console, for a variety of reasons.
How well? I mean, they could defibrillate it on Games with Gold, but doing it too late might miss its potential draw, and doing it too soon might sour a lot of people even more.
"Aside from this one mechanic that people use regularly during play, and which has a massive influence on things like map design, and which a lot of other mechanics are designed around, I don't see that what you're talking about has much significance."
Sprint and CoD-style ADS have very similar impacts on gameplay. That's why they're often lumped together in "this shouldn't be in Halo" arguments. Halo 5 doesn't have entirely CoD-style ADS, but it does have sprint. (I would personally argue that Halo 5 tries to mitigate the run-or-gun choppiness from sprint to some degree, but there are other issues that arise in how it does it.)
What is it about Halo 5 that makes you not like it? This small sampling is easily the best out of the box Halo I've ever played, barring CE, because, like I've said, never played the MP much.
They simply have to do something with the radar though. I loved the games on Orion I played by myself, but the minute I started playing with a party, and playing other teams, it became the most boring map. All of the maps are like this to an extent, just long range standoffs, with absolutely no freedom to move around the map and flank because of the stupid radar. I don't know if it's possible, but I really feel once you hit the Onyx tier, the radar should become inactive. This would limit the matchmaking I guess, but damn, something has to change.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Triple posting TTUVAPOR? Editing just a bridge too far?
You're right. I think to those of us that do want it to work, we're forced to go play on PCs. I can fire up old-school Quake 3, not Quake Live, actual Quake 3 and find plenty of people playing the game...crazy. But hey, who wants to play an old out-dated game like Quake 3 when we have Quake Live? There's things QL simply doesn't offer than Q3 still does.
Same goes for CS, the diehards will play 1.6 till they die or computers stop supporting it or whatever...
Halo CE to many of us is what I would call our CS 1.6, except we can't play it due to MCC's connection issues.
I think everyone's arguing and bitterness wouldn't even exist if MCC didn't have its issues. In a perfect world, we'd play H5 beta...like it or dislike it....if we disliked it, we would just go play MCC till the next Halo game comes out where we compare it again to our beloved classic.
Oh wow....I can most certainly agree with the music analogy. I'll listen to 90s grunge bands till I die. Nothing today compares.
I actually had friends take time off work for its release. That's how important MCC was going to be. Instead, by the next day, everyone was at work, and talking about hopefully it being fixed by the end of the day, or by the weekend. Here we are now, almost 2+ months later, and it's still messed up. I agree with a lot of your points on the last page too.
A lot of us bought Xbox Ones for this game. I even sold my Sunset digital code because I didn't care about anything but MCC, and for 14 days, all I did was either play Ryse which I had bought earlier, or wait for MCC. Stood in the cold winter freezing weather for almost 2+ hours to get my copy.
Never before has a Halo game worked like this. Even if they've gotten a majority of the issues fixed, for a month plus, you couldn't even party up and join a single game. All the people who wanted to play MCC, a few have gotten refunds, others went back to Destiny or are playing other games. For me, MCC has definitely caused a ton of apathy toward Halo. I almost don't even want Halo 5, I had fun with the beta, but I've barely played it, and I still prefer CE, 2, 3, Halo 2 Anniversary gameplay to how Halo 5 is. In a few days, when the beta ends, it's back to ten plus months of stuck with MCC. I definitely think the series is worse off now than before MCC launched.
Seems like it
And yeah MCC was pretty big tragedy on all fronts. Wonder if patches will be able to fix it entirely or if it needs a re-release. I don't know of any game that has ever done that.
Like a product recall and then they replace it with the working one.
Ugh. By the time I finish a post, someone else makes a post that I want to reply to....hell, by the time I finish with a single post with all the quoted replies...my post will take up one entire page. lol
Sorry.
Cyren said:
Dude, you sound similar to me back in the MLG forum days post-Halo 3, Gears of War, Shadowrun, COD4, etc.
EDIT: HaloGAF going into full-on Halo depression mode. It's a bad time to be a fan of Halo right now.
By the way Ram, all the smack you talk about us HCE bible thumpers being silly and stuck in the past...you barely played the multiplayer??????
How in the hell can you make those statements?
It's like me saying...
I don't get why people love that movie
Have you seen it?
Just bits and pieces.
GTFO.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
dan91bauer, I'm glad you post on this forum because you're proof "old schoolers" like us are still relevant and won't step down from a cause we believe in. Spam away brother, just don't drop those F BOMBS when Halo 5 only has OS and Camo in the game, and on 7 minute timers.
I've grown to like Halo 3 more because it's not the laggy mess it was while it was out. It's grown to be my palette cleanser ;]
No wonder you like Halo 3 the best, it makes sense now. Dude trust me, let's play some CE (you, me, CliQ, whoever else) and we'll go through stuff with you; you may end of loving the game once you see your skill and knowledge improving. Seriously, it cannot be understated how rewarding CE feels once you understand the mechanics, maps, flow, timing, etc.
I've grown to like Halo 3 more because it's not the laggy mess it was while it was out. It's grown to be my palette cleanser ;]
Dude's, I've played CE, just not at the amount I've played the other games.
I always say that in any of my posts, because I will not claim to know the game inside and out if I don't. Your post just comes off as childish Vapor, but given your track record, it isn't surprising.
I always say that in any of my posts, because I will not claim to know the game inside and out if I don't. Your post just comes off as childish Vapor, but given your track record, it isn't surprising.
biosnake20
Member
I remember a few months back when I was talking to my friends about what their favorite halo was. They all said 3 and I couldn't believe it. They thought it was better than 1/2? Impossible. They went on to explain that even though they knew it was a worse game on paper they had the most fun with 3 because all of our friends playing at the time and how big the community was. The thing that sucks for 343 is that no matter how hard they try they'll never capture that again. People moving on combined with the damage reach/4 did is something they can't come back from. Halo 5 is a great game and would be even better without sprint but no matter how good it is there will always be some of that magic that they won't be able to capture.
That doesn't mean I'll stop playing halo because I still love it and halo 5 is the best we've had in a long long time. You just have to get used to the fact that it won't be the same as back in the day. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
That doesn't mean I'll stop playing halo because I still love it and halo 5 is the best we've had in a long long time. You just have to get used to the fact that it won't be the same as back in the day. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
Ramirez said:
Ummm...how am I suppose to take that? Never played the MP much?
Ok...
Funknown ixi said:
I've already dropped enough F bombs with the connection issues of MCC and H5. At this point, I don't think anything worse can happen. *knock on wood.
EDIT: I'll never blame someone for their like of certain Halo games if their first Halo game was one of the Halos post-HCE. Can't blame them for liking what they like if they never got a glimpse of what Halo was originally like.
95% of the Call of Duty population likes Call of Duty because Call of Duty 4 was their first COD game. They have ZERO clue on what COD2 and COD1 were like.
Blue Ninja
Member
The Dong Knight
Just beat Halo 2 on Legendary, but no Achievement. Xbox pls.
Just beat Halo 2 on Legendary, but no Achievement. Xbox pls.
I was literally just reading the same email and about to ask if that was CyReN from here/team beyond.
Yeah, I can't quite place it, but it feels too easy to hit stuff ever since they did the CE hit detection fix. Especially considering that some weapons still have hit detection issues, it makes me wonder if the fix was a crude bandaid and not a broad improvement to the system. In theory the 1080p60 could be having a big impact (compared with the 240i~20 that could be experienced in classic split-screen play), but it feels like more than that.
All things considered, given how awful the porting process has been to CE, it's astounding how fun it still is in MCC. Easily my favourite MP in the collection, like 2001 it's possible to have fun even when being donged on.
CE was my first Halo game though, and I played a lot of 4 player split screen with trash tier buddies. In no way does that make me capable of arguing the finer mechanics of the game on a competitive level.
However, that doesn't mean I can't comment that I think snipers spawning every 30 seconds, and powerups spawning at really small intervals is a dumb idea, TO ME. You had written off H5, and then played Pegasus, which to me, is plagued by problems, and some how that map made you feel like this was the second coming of Halo. I can't take you serious because you're so extreme from one side to the other, and seemingly flip flop on a dime.
I played CoD 1/2 as well, and think 4 threw them in the fucking dumpster, you can't be mad at people for having different opinions and tell them to get the fuck out like a toddler.
Throwing some kind of special bundle out when the ODST Remaster drops might boost the value for some people. As you said the timing will be key here and the game will need to be firing on all cylinders.
I didn't say that it doesn't affect the game
dammit Sub-Zero
According to most of the opinions I've seen here (unless they've changed) sprinting is not the majority of the game and if it is you are doing it wrong. The base speed needs a boost though.
Blue Ninja
Member
They'll need to release a physical MCC Legendary Edition a year from now, when it actually works. Everything on two discs. All patches. Free upgrade for everyone who brings in a copy of MCC.
I had dreams of having these games in my collection for a long time, but the always online future decided to rear its ugly head once again.
I had dreams of having these games in my collection for a long time, but the always online future decided to rear its ugly head once again.
Holy wow man. I think if you go back and read my recent Halo 5 posts, I distinctively said that I enjoyed Halo 5 because of the latest starting weapon set being AR/BR, couple that with the Pegasus map having a rocket and sniper on opposite ends of the map and the map feeling like Quake, I enjoyed it. So what you just said was outright wrong.
I'm saying GTFO of the discussion when you admit you didn't play the game much...now you either did or you didn't. If you did, then fine, but if you didn't, then how can you even argue anything about HCE...and call us old-school HCE fans people who just wanna live in the past.
Edit: MCC Legendary Edition: We Promise It Works This Time
Missed a dude come up from behind me on radar... he missed me trying to charge (or thrust-melee), and took a little tumble off the cliff.
http://xboxclips.com/Thorn+Harvestar/488d89c1-8ce1-4ad1-9d7b-91dc8f3dc898
Had another incident that I failed to record, where I was low on shields and tried to bait my agressor to fall his death... I leaped off the ledge, got him to leap after me, and thrurstered back/clambered on the lowest platform. My enemy outplayed me though, and very quickly ground-pounded me right as I finished my clamber. I wasn't even mad; it was impressive.
I was pretty sure his thruster pack was on cooldown; does ground pound not share it?
http://xboxclips.com/Thorn+Harvestar/488d89c1-8ce1-4ad1-9d7b-91dc8f3dc898
Had another incident that I failed to record, where I was low on shields and tried to bait my agressor to fall his death... I leaped off the ledge, got him to leap after me, and thrurstered back/clambered on the lowest platform. My enemy outplayed me though, and very quickly ground-pounded me right as I finished my clamber. I wasn't even mad; it was impressive.
I was pretty sure his thruster pack was on cooldown; does ground pound not share it?
Because you are living in the past. There will never be another Halo game that resembles CE/2/3 released as a new entry. I don't have to play any of those games to know that.
PROh1bited
Banned
Yes they're never will be another game that resembles the Bungie trilogy, because they want Halo to now resemble every other FPS on the market.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
We're all children, to be fair. We just have old bodies and more intelligence is all ;]
And I wasn't referring to you just "playing" it. There's a huge difference between that and what I mentioned, so I didn't mean to imply you're totally ignorant towards CE.
You're playing against Burger Kings. Was OGRE2 the one that started the increased hitbox rumor?
Is there any chance you guys can talk about how CE was improved?
That following preview bricked my system lol, had to get a new one sadly. Props to Amazon for coming through and making a Christmas Miracle happen.