Then why was the beta's skill matching so good?
Any non ranked Halo list has always been a complete toss up, especially alone.
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Halo |OT 23| Thruster is Love, Thruster is Life
- Thread starter VisceralBowl
- Start date
Then why was the beta's skill matching so good?
Any non ranked Halo list has always been a complete toss up, especially alone.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I'd like it for that fully realized Invasion mode
;]
ProvenDeadly
Member
Because they hired someone outside of 343 to make the system????????
Menke joined 343 specifically to work on the ranking, and I doubt it was a solo effort; 343 made the system.
Dude that made the ranking system in H5 had been for since like 2013? Maybe earlier? He did the MCC ranking system as well. In fact, I'm pretty sure he did the one CSR system in H4 as well.
ProvenDeadly
Member
ProvenDeadly
Member
You know what my least favorite type of person in this world is? The purposefully ignorant or uninformed. You go out of your way to make a point and to appease this idea that you have (incorrectly) in your head and make sure that through repetition and anger, everyone in the world (or in this case HaloGAF) recognizes and hears your voice of stupidity and it gives you this feeling of bliss and joy when you've stated your piece time and time again. Then, when proven wrong through investigation and knowledgable evidence such as this: http://teambeyond.net/joshua-menke-leaves-343/
as much as I love to post beyond on here.
Also, the Master Chief Collection, again much to your infuriating choice to ignore its existence (even though I know you're trying to make some ridiculous joke about how it's only in one playlist) is in fact in said playlist, and works just fucking fine.
Regret Upon Approval
Member
I recall a lot of complaints about teammates and rank balance from the Beta time period.
BtB is great. It is pretty fun with 16 people each trying to do their own thing and the match progression bounces all over the place.
ProvenDeadly
Member
Nope, in fact you proved my point. I directly addressed your points, proved you wrong and you came back and essentially said nope. But thanks for playing.
ProvenDeadly
Member
Yup.
ProvenDeadly
Member
I apologize, I believe that Halo 4's was pretty much finished by the time Menke joined in March of 2013, but that he did have a large hand in MCC's.
The ranking system definitely needs work. Almost every other match you get ranked between iron, bronze, silver and gold every match, even getting the odd onyx, semi-pro players. Sure I acknowledge that the beta was definitely low player population, but it's like having 10's playing against 20's, 30's, 40's etc.
Also, I think it's poor to rank Gold 3 and Onyx 1 separately, when they're closer in skill and rank than Gold 1 or Onyx 3 are. It's akin to say thinking a 35 is the same as 40+ etc.
Edit: thanks for the clarification Josh!
Also, I think it's poor to rank Gold 3 and Onyx 1 separately, when they're closer in skill and rank than Gold 1 or Onyx 3 are. It's akin to say thinking a 35 is the same as 40+ etc.
Edit: thanks for the clarification Josh!
SalientOne
Internet Batman
Dr. Menke had nothing to do with Halo 4's ranking system. Or MCC.
He only worked on Halo 5.
He only worked on Halo 5.
Welfare
Member
Ah. Thanks for the clarification.
Yeah it'll work great for that fully realized Invasion that's totally going to happen because the great guys and gals at 343 certainly know a solid Gametype that deserves to come back when they see one
PLEASE BRING IT BACK
I think my favorite map for invasion was that DLC snow level. Had multiple entry and engagement points. Had plenty of verticality. It was just sooooo goooood. Well except for when 3 people with a sniper went up on the ridge... that was a bitch. Luckily they had little to no cover though so yay.
Yeah though on smaller maps with few teammates you shouldn't really need it.
You're arguing with a stick of dynamite. It's bound to blow up in your face.
You're points were valid regardless
Aren't you that one guy that works at that one place making that one thing?
You've probably gotten this question a lot recently, but any ETA on when you can share some info from the beta? Just things you learned, stats, some kind of infographic on what weapons used most, how many kills by ground and pound, etc. Would love to read some things you learned from all the data gathered.
Yea, by people going into a ranked Arena mode solo. Playing with a team always netted me a very even match 90% of the time in the beta.
MaxRealflugel
Neo Member
ROLF!!!
MaxRealflugel
Neo Member
Yeah, read that a while ago. A great write-up and a fantastic read. I'll be injecting a lot of elements and various influences beyond Halo. But it will be, on a fundamental level, Halo.
I'll keep you all updated. Once it's completed feel free to read, examine, review, critique.
YourExWife
Member
First week or so matching seemed fine, but toward the end about 90% of the people I got matched up with was Gold rank or lower. Majority of those weren't even ranked. This was with and without a full team in both Slayer and Strongholds.
Silphonica
Banned
MCC matchmaking fucked, can't find anyone in team hardcore ;(
Population drop?
Gabotron ES
Member
So about that beta patch...
link1201
Member
Loved the ranking system in the Beta. It was a highlight for me.
It's gotta go through alpha first
Good morning! Now I get to reply to your points Jem.
It's the concept, the concept of starting with crap to get better weapons, it doesn't work in Halo. Maybe it's enjoyable at a purely casual level, which I would disagree with, but beyond noob-status, meaning someone who's never played Halo, it creates a unbalanced game. The AR/Pistol starts in Halo 5 just continue that concept, it doesn't work.
This is not a fault of the starting weapons, but more the fault of the map's design and what's available on the map, which was lacking big time in Halo 5. There were only two power weapons to fight for on some of the maps, which is okay, but there needs to be the other middle ground weapons like the shotgun, sword, etc. Furthermore, we need powerups, both camo and overshield. These items allow for movement, they promote movement. Personally, I rarely saw what you described, so I can't really agree or disagree with what you said took place...I think it varies with who's playing...teams of 4 communicating via mics, or complete randoms not talking to one another at all. It's not the fault of the starting weapons though, in my opinion.
You personal preference shouldn't negate what the starting weapons are. That's like saying, I prefer sniping over anything else, so that's why there's a team snipers playlist...or shotty/snipers, or I enjoy rocket race over traditional Halo...
If you like close quarters though, as your playstyle...camo/overshield with a shotgun would basically create that space for you.
First, AR/Pistol starts equal crap weapons...so naturally you're going to drop them for the other weapons on the map...you have to in order to survive. The issue with that is that it re-creates what happened in Halo 2 and Halo 3 with the SMG and AR starts...one team grabs all the precision-based weapons on the map, and dominates the match until the opposition gets lucky spawns near precision-based weapons.
I personally saw more weapon usage when it was AR/BR starts. Granted, there's not much on the maps to begin with...SMG, DMR, Light Rifle and Pistol were all that were available outside of the power weapons.
This is just going to be my word against yours and vice versa. There was definite spawn trapping when you play AR/Pistol starts...statistically with what's available on the map, the AR/Pistol start allows for spawn trapping very easily. Non-communicating players may not do it on lower tier levels, but your average Halo player has enough sense to know that dropping the Pistol for the BR or DMR and killing freshly spawned players who have ZERO defense against precision-based weapons is super fucking easy to do.
And that brings me to my point...Halo can no longer keep being a game where we spawn with weapons that do not allow players to defend themselves from all ranges.
Now before that statement "all ranges" is blown out of proportion, let me state this, by all ranges, I mean ranges of defense.
Scenario One:
If someone has a sniper rifle and I spawn...and they have their sights on my within a second of my spawning...they can fire a shot and land a headshot and I'm dead, or they hit my body, now I'm one shot away from death. With an AR/Pistol I am being punished just for respawning...I can't defend myself from ranged attacks from precision-based weapons...now how is this remotely fair?
Scenario Two:
Same situation, only this time I spawn with AR/BR, and immediately switch to my BR to ping the sniper out of scope...so that I can get to safety or maybe he's at a range where I can be risky and try to actually kill him with the BR off my spawn. This is a much fairer situation in my opinion.
The ultimate disconnect I continue to see within the general Halo community whether it's here at Gaf or Waypoint (not so much on competitive forums like Team Beyond, old-school MLG players, etc) is that one camp thinks spawning with crap weapons somehow makes Halo more diverse in regards to gameplay...and ladies and gents...that's completely FALSE!
Yes it's my opinion, but on paper it is completely bad, bad, bad design.
While it may seem like a broken record referring back to Halo CE, I can't help but do it in this discussion. In Halo CE, we spawned with AR/Pistol...and we all know what the HCE pistol could do, so I don't need to explain that.
Any average game of Halo CE sees a lot of diverse play in the weapons being used. The plasma rifle gets usage, the shotgun gets usage, the rockets, snipes, hell even needler will get used from time to time...it's not just all pistol vs pistol...as people like to conveniently fall back on.
In Halo CE, it was the one game where when you spawned, you had the arsenal to defend yourself from all attacks and all ranges. Lets say you spawn bottom of prisoner in the open (bad spawns in my opinion), the opposition has rockets/camo...he sees you just spawned, he fires at you, he misses, but as hes reloading or trying to adjust aim for his second shot...you immediately switch to the pistol and kill him within seconds. That's called balance. If you didn't spawn with the pistol, the most you could do is spray with the AR and hope for the best, and chances are, you're going to lose that fight.
Bottom line is, the AR/BR start in Halo 5, regardless of what was available on the map during the beta, (which was only a tiny sample of what the final weapon sandbox will be) was the most balanced Halo I personally have ever played since Halo CE.
When players spawned with AR/BR, they were given a fair fighting chance to defend themselves off spawn, as it should be.
That's the key difference. Most people won't admit it either, or they're ignorant to the fact that when you spawn with crap weapons, you're easy pickings for those who picked up precision-based weapons. It goes even further saying that it's not just limited to precision-based weapons, if the AR wasn't a starting weapon in Halo 5, the close-range game would be completely screwed up off spawn. Lets say it's just BR starts in Halo 5...that means you can't legitimately defend yourself at close range off spawn if someone was running around with an SMG pickup or AR pickup...or even a shotgun pick up.
Now what I would disagree with entirely is if somehow a camp decides to protest full-auto weapons all together by removing them from the game...now I would agree we're going to have a boring fucking game. With no full-autos, the game will purely become no different than a team snipers game, that's not default Halo, nor should it be. That's a niche gametype.
In closing, I'll repeat my point.
Halo 5 AR/BR start should be the default starting weapons for the base modes of the game. That means Slayer and objective modes, such as CTF, Bomb, Ball, KOTH, etc.
If people want niche stuff like shotty/snipers, SWAT, pistols only, team rockets, etc...then naturally a separate playlist should be offered for those niche gametypes.
It's the concept, the concept of starting with crap to get better weapons, it doesn't work in Halo. Maybe it's enjoyable at a purely casual level, which I would disagree with, but beyond noob-status, meaning someone who's never played Halo, it creates a unbalanced game. The AR/Pistol starts in Halo 5 just continue that concept, it doesn't work.
This is not a fault of the starting weapons, but more the fault of the map's design and what's available on the map, which was lacking big time in Halo 5. There were only two power weapons to fight for on some of the maps, which is okay, but there needs to be the other middle ground weapons like the shotgun, sword, etc. Furthermore, we need powerups, both camo and overshield. These items allow for movement, they promote movement. Personally, I rarely saw what you described, so I can't really agree or disagree with what you said took place...I think it varies with who's playing...teams of 4 communicating via mics, or complete randoms not talking to one another at all. It's not the fault of the starting weapons though, in my opinion.
You personal preference shouldn't negate what the starting weapons are. That's like saying, I prefer sniping over anything else, so that's why there's a team snipers playlist...or shotty/snipers, or I enjoy rocket race over traditional Halo...
If you like close quarters though, as your playstyle...camo/overshield with a shotgun would basically create that space for you.
First, AR/Pistol starts equal crap weapons...so naturally you're going to drop them for the other weapons on the map...you have to in order to survive. The issue with that is that it re-creates what happened in Halo 2 and Halo 3 with the SMG and AR starts...one team grabs all the precision-based weapons on the map, and dominates the match until the opposition gets lucky spawns near precision-based weapons.
I personally saw more weapon usage when it was AR/BR starts. Granted, there's not much on the maps to begin with...SMG, DMR, Light Rifle and Pistol were all that were available outside of the power weapons.
This is just going to be my word against yours and vice versa. There was definite spawn trapping when you play AR/Pistol starts...statistically with what's available on the map, the AR/Pistol start allows for spawn trapping very easily. Non-communicating players may not do it on lower tier levels, but your average Halo player has enough sense to know that dropping the Pistol for the BR or DMR and killing freshly spawned players who have ZERO defense against precision-based weapons is super fucking easy to do.
And that brings me to my point...Halo can no longer keep being a game where we spawn with weapons that do not allow players to defend themselves from all ranges.
Now before that statement "all ranges" is blown out of proportion, let me state this, by all ranges, I mean ranges of defense.
Scenario One:
If someone has a sniper rifle and I spawn...and they have their sights on my within a second of my spawning...they can fire a shot and land a headshot and I'm dead, or they hit my body, now I'm one shot away from death. With an AR/Pistol I am being punished just for respawning...I can't defend myself from ranged attacks from precision-based weapons...now how is this remotely fair?
Scenario Two:
Same situation, only this time I spawn with AR/BR, and immediately switch to my BR to ping the sniper out of scope...so that I can get to safety or maybe he's at a range where I can be risky and try to actually kill him with the BR off my spawn. This is a much fairer situation in my opinion.
The ultimate disconnect I continue to see within the general Halo community whether it's here at Gaf or Waypoint (not so much on competitive forums like Team Beyond, old-school MLG players, etc) is that one camp thinks spawning with crap weapons somehow makes Halo more diverse in regards to gameplay...and ladies and gents...that's completely FALSE!
Yes it's my opinion, but on paper it is completely bad, bad, bad design.
While it may seem like a broken record referring back to Halo CE, I can't help but do it in this discussion. In Halo CE, we spawned with AR/Pistol...and we all know what the HCE pistol could do, so I don't need to explain that.
Any average game of Halo CE sees a lot of diverse play in the weapons being used. The plasma rifle gets usage, the shotgun gets usage, the rockets, snipes, hell even needler will get used from time to time...it's not just all pistol vs pistol...as people like to conveniently fall back on.
In Halo CE, it was the one game where when you spawned, you had the arsenal to defend yourself from all attacks and all ranges. Lets say you spawn bottom of prisoner in the open (bad spawns in my opinion), the opposition has rockets/camo...he sees you just spawned, he fires at you, he misses, but as hes reloading or trying to adjust aim for his second shot...you immediately switch to the pistol and kill him within seconds. That's called balance. If you didn't spawn with the pistol, the most you could do is spray with the AR and hope for the best, and chances are, you're going to lose that fight.
Bottom line is, the AR/BR start in Halo 5, regardless of what was available on the map during the beta, (which was only a tiny sample of what the final weapon sandbox will be) was the most balanced Halo I personally have ever played since Halo CE.
When players spawned with AR/BR, they were given a fair fighting chance to defend themselves off spawn, as it should be.
That's the key difference. Most people won't admit it either, or they're ignorant to the fact that when you spawn with crap weapons, you're easy pickings for those who picked up precision-based weapons. It goes even further saying that it's not just limited to precision-based weapons, if the AR wasn't a starting weapon in Halo 5, the close-range game would be completely screwed up off spawn. Lets say it's just BR starts in Halo 5...that means you can't legitimately defend yourself at close range off spawn if someone was running around with an SMG pickup or AR pickup...or even a shotgun pick up.
Now what I would disagree with entirely is if somehow a camp decides to protest full-auto weapons all together by removing them from the game...now I would agree we're going to have a boring fucking game. With no full-autos, the game will purely become no different than a team snipers game, that's not default Halo, nor should it be. That's a niche gametype.
In closing, I'll repeat my point.
Halo 5 AR/BR start should be the default starting weapons for the base modes of the game. That means Slayer and objective modes, such as CTF, Bomb, Ball, KOTH, etc.
If people want niche stuff like shotty/snipers, SWAT, pistols only, team rockets, etc...then naturally a separate playlist should be offered for those niche gametypes.
CreateNowSleepLater
Member
Uh, its almost Feb for this game. I think the nail is in the coffin. People just don't have the attention span these days to wait for a fuckin collection of remakes essentially to get fixed.
The Jackdog
Member
MCC is just never on the top played games anymore.
Even if they fix everything....i dont think anyone cares anymore.
Even if they fix everything....i dont think anyone cares anymore.
I would agree. The masses have left MCC in the dust. Us Halo fans are the only ones sticking around...and even some of those people have left for good.
They are going to have to do a relaunch and discount it when it happens ($40) to revive this thing.
They probably could get away with making it free and charging for ODST/Reach where as early adopters get the DLC for free.
But a relaunch at $40 seems more likely but will get less people back
One could argue that "people" have waited over ten years for some of what's in MCC. I'm one of the most unhappy people about the whole situation, but I have to acknowledge that this is not a new IP nor a sequel in an established franchise. The promise of playing a functioning HD/60fps Halo CE or Halo 2 online still holds massive appeal to many, whether that be in Nov 2014 or June 2015. I only hope that, if 343 does manage to fully fix the game, word of mouth carries enough to let those people who gave up on it know it's okay to come back.
This is a very unique situation.
They have left a scar on the Halo brand, no different than EA/DICE's scars they have put on the Battlefield franchise. EA is putting all their money into Battlefield Hardline and I'm willing to bet it goes the route of Medal of Honor Warfighter...which is a shame because the Medal of Honor franchise was unique as well...but ruined by EA.
You can screw with gamers for one or two games, but gamers will never forget. With MCC's issues still persisting, people are going to be very hesitant to trust the Halo brand for Halo 5.
I can't wait for E3 and all the fluffery MSFT is going to try to do to gain back Halo fan's trust for Halo 5.
Yeah I'm personally waiting a week after launch for H5. If I hear about any issues like MCC I'm not buying.
Really hope others vote with their wallet too.
I plan on doing the same. I'm not pre-ordering at all. I hope that others don't pre-order either. Pre-orders are huge stats for the sales guys in publishing...when they're low, they get anxious and stressed.
I'm betting they push a huge pre-order bonus thing to try to push people to pre-order, probably more than any previous Halo. I just hope people don't buy into it.
I think H5 Guardings will work, technically speaking, I mean it has to and they've got plenty of time, resources and talent to make it work (MM, party system, menus/UI, etc.) But the reason I'll be waiting is to see what the gameplay looks like. I continue to LAN H1 to this day and enjoyed 2-3 to a lesser extent. I bought Reach/4 as pre-order and shelved them early. I won't be making the mistake of buying a game I don't think I'll enjoy a 3rd time.
Remaining optimistic on MCC as its my only way to continue playing H1 outside of my occasional LAN with various friends. I do think they'll fix the majority of the lingering issues but small anomalies such as rotation of certain weapons or map geometry from original xbox maps i'm not holding out hope for. These infrequent and vague statements from 343 though are really frustrating as a fan of the series where communication with fans was really great in past titles.
I'm probably going to pre order it... I know, I'm part of the problem.
It's just I've pre ordered every Halo since 2. It would be sad to end that tradition. Also I'm just as interested in campaign as multiplayer, so even if it's broken I'll be playing. I'm reasonably confident that 5 won't be broken though. My experience in the beta was largely positive and 4 was completely playable. I don't think the MCC is a particularly good indication of how 5 will turn out. It's a completely different project and it sounds like this new multiplayer system screwed then over. I imagine the new system will be completely sorted by the time 5 comes out.
It's just I've pre ordered every Halo since 2. It would be sad to end that tradition. Also I'm just as interested in campaign as multiplayer, so even if it's broken I'll be playing. I'm reasonably confident that 5 won't be broken though. My experience in the beta was largely positive and 4 was completely playable. I don't think the MCC is a particularly good indication of how 5 will turn out. It's a completely different project and it sounds like this new multiplayer system screwed then over. I imagine the new system will be completely sorted by the time 5 comes out.
Just curious...why pre-order in today's generation of gaming? It's not as if they're going to sell out of copies on day one. Plus, there's digital purchasing on Xbox One now.
I can understand if you want it pre-loaded, but I don't get pre-ordering anymore.
Pre-ordering just allows the publisher to boast about their numbers.
By pre order I mean pre load.
With the size of games these days and the speed of my internet, it would take me a good 2-3 days to download most games. So I'd much rather pre load.
Can't help but to agree with you.
Fix the game, release ranks, update maps, make it GwG and bring good light back to the Halo franchise. They need a miracle to rid themselves of this #343bola you see everywhere.
It sucks for 343i right now, but there ARE good moves they could make. Start with fixing MCC, make it a GwG game, add reach as a paid DLC (and further money from ODST for those who don't get it free), make one extra map and start providing a ViDoc series for Halo 5.
The amount of outcry they'd get from making it available on GWG would be huge. People everywhere would be crying about how they're screwing over early buyers who had to sit through the broken game.
I think that would be a pretty bad move in many respects.
Give ODST and Reach free to them. TBH, I think they're going to give us something else for free anyways.
Please don't make stuff up. Shinobi never, ever gave a percentage and Stinkles arleady confirmed you play as Chief more.