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Halo |OT10| The Calm Before The Storm
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Okay - let me start off by saying I'm NOT a competitive player; I almost don't feel qualified to ask questions, let alone contribute to the discussion. All I've really got going for me is that I've been around for a long, long time - so if I'm asking dumb questions, be nice about telling me so.
If I'm understanding you correctly, your argument is that Halo (the first one) is the last game where individual skill was more important than the ability to work as a team. (I'm not suggesting that the ability to be a team player isn't a skill - I'm trying to summarize your overall point, that Halo allowed individual skill to shine and gave greater depth to team play than later games did.)
The part I don't get, then, is why the early competitive winners were so quickly eclipsed when Halo 2 came out.
If you look at the early days of competitive gaming (first national championship was in 2002, AGP was pretty active in 2003, MLG kicked off that year), you'll see names like HP Darkman, StrangePurple, Zyos. They dominated at the start (especially when they teamed up to form The Dream Team) - but soon after Halo 2 came out, they ALL faded away. It's like they couldn't adapt to the new game (though the Ogres and Walshy, who'd all been around in 2003, had no trouble doing so).
So if a group of guys could dominate the competitive scene, both individually and as a team, when the game was DEEPER, and rewarded individual play more... why wouldn't they dominate even MORE in a game that became less deep? (Zyos kept playing FFAs through 2006, and then dropped out of professional gaming, but he stopped playing team games in 2005, and the rest of the Dream Team was gone in 2004.)
Part of the answer might be as simple as "the competitive scene wasn't big enough to support them and they went back to school" - the first real contracts weren't signed until mid-2006. But I don't think that's all of it. To me, as an outsider (to the competitive scene), it seemed that players that were BETTER individually (in Halo) had more trouble adapting to the team dynamics of Halo 2 - it's not that Halo's team play is deeper, it's that Halo's team dynamics are LESS important than the individual skills of the members of the team. (That is: four great FFA players could easily dominate in Halo team play - but 4 great Halo 2 FFA players wouldn't necessarily dominate in Halo 2 team play.)
I guess, for me, it boils down to "Team playing is a different skill than solo playing, and its importance was greatly diminished in the first Halo, compared to later games."
Tying this back to your original argument, it seems we agree... to a point. Individual skill is MORE important in Halo than in Halo 2. Where we seem to diverge is that you are suggesting that higher individual skill will necessarily lead to higher team skill... and I'm suggesting that there's not really a correlation (at least in the first game). I will ABSOLUTELY agree that in Halo 2 and 3, teams with greater-skilled players dominated, and I will agree that in the early days of Reach, wins were more unpredictable because there WAS a greater 'random' factor - one that MLG removed over time, leading to fewer upsets and more predictable outcomes. But what I don't see is a greater 'depth' in Halo gameplay that comes from individual skill - what I see is that individual skill level was far more important than the ability to work together as a team. To me... that's LESS depth.
Wow, I didn't expect this to be that long. And now I'm late for a meeting.
I dont think that they couldn't adapt, rather they didn't want to adapt, most Halo players (specifically on the pro level) drop the circuit because they just didnt like the new Halo that MLG was hosting at the given moment, it Happened from Halo 1 to Halo 2, to Halo 3 to Halo Reach.
I wont touch the teamwork point because I have mixed feeling on the idea, I never Played LAN HAlo CE, so I cant say, but Bigshows Idea is the voice of the entire Hardcore community, and its the concern of the Kill times, and how they have been getting higher since the first Halo, and its a concern that is not only because how many shots it takes to kill an opponent, but also because of all the elements added (equipments, armor abilities and perks) to the game in the 360 era.
Deputy Moonman
Member
I shouldn't even step into these arguments, but I always do for some reason. And then I usually stick my foot in my mouth. Maybe it's because I'm tired right now or because I don't want to make a fool of myself per usual, but I'm feeling very at peace with the world at this moment and would like to concede this discussion. Carry on.
Zeouterlimits
Member
I like Kyle AND Hydranockz. Crazy I know.
I like turtles AND big butts.
Hydranockz
Member
Amazing Mic
Neo Member
When BigShow's auto over-reaction bot isn't on, he does make me want to pick up the older games again.
But every time I do I'm left just scratching my head and I've decided that LANs must be a completely different world. I've never played one- likely never will, but it's the only conclusion I can make.
I just don't see these quantum leaps in skill. Even if they are there, the performance issues are so behind the times I don't know how you could even tell. I consider myself to be a above-average player, and I just don't see these massively larger skill gaps, nor the absence of it in Reach, for that matter.
But every time I do I'm left just scratching my head and I've decided that LANs must be a completely different world. I've never played one- likely never will, but it's the only conclusion I can make.
I just don't see these quantum leaps in skill. Even if they are there, the performance issues are so behind the times I don't know how you could even tell. I consider myself to be a above-average player, and I just don't see these massively larger skill gaps, nor the absence of it in Reach, for that matter.
higherARC05
Banned
Okay time to dip outta the internet. Peace!!!!!
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
They apparently take things SUPER seriously over there. I can understand some of it, but not stuff like this. Posting the disc, and a PSA about keeping dark? That's not really something you should be banned for. Pretty strict mods.
squidhands
Member
Didn't realize you were a fan of Canadian Club. On the rocks, or with a splash of Coke?
this is my schtick
Damn, that's a quality post.
BOTH AT ONCE!
All this turtle butt excitement was too much for him.
Well again it is pretty good for when actual leaks start coming it, but posting a disc thats out in the wild and trying to warn people that leaks are coming isn't really a leak at all and should NOT be a bannable offense.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
I'm under the opinion that you can post whatever you want. And you may not care, but just realize that some of your posts may have the response of 50 people shaking their head in unison. Hell, I took that risk for this one.
Anyway, Halo 4 is going to be a good game, one of the best if I had to guess. My ideal Halo 4 would have more multiplayer content and less other stuff (including crazy expensive live action trailers, cgi, cutscenes, FuD, etc. but I know it doesn't work that way with such a big game in this day and age), however its still shaping up to be a monster. I almost can't believe the effort they've put into this one.
Anyway, Halo 4 is going to be a good game, one of the best if I had to guess. My ideal Halo 4 would have more multiplayer content and less other stuff (including crazy expensive live action trailers, cgi, cutscenes, FuD, etc. but I know it doesn't work that way with such a big game in this day and age), however its still shaping up to be a monster. I almost can't believe the effort they've put into this one.
Der Flatulator
Member
On his back he holds the Earth.
Der Flatulator
Member
ncsuDuncan
Member
Reagan's BR
Banned
Actually, he and Miller both worked directly on it. It's not just a celebrity endorsement. In fact Fincher said one of the funniest things I have ever heard in my whole life while we hammered out a really, really anal canon detail, but I don't think I will ever be able to publicly repeat it.
That's what spoiler tags are for...
User 73706
Banned
Over was a forger who wanted the best
It was in his nature to wish to be impressed
Much to his dismay,
Forge remained gray
and his rage got him put on house arrest
EDIT: El Fuga Logo released an in-game screen of (ACTUAL SPOILERS)
The Didact.
Reagan's BR
Banned
There are no more rules on NeoGAF.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Neat to see. I liked Miller's effects work on Scott Pilgrim a lot. Still have yet to see "Girl With the Dragon tattoo" by Fincher, but he seems capable.
Nevermind!
YourExWife
Member
***three-hundred-forty-three sucks***
technically 7 syllables, I believe. Also, the syllable thing isn't a requirement for a haiku...
Fincher's GWTDT was quite meh for me. The original was more fleshed out and there were key plot points and such that were just left out for whatever reason.
squidhands
Member
Say no more, good sir. I think I get the gist of it.
Reagan's BR
Banned
I clicked on that fully knowing that you were joking. I expected a funny shop. Still pretty funny. Well played.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Ah, I see. I have been attempting to read the book before seeing the movie (which I am also doing with Game of Thrones). Neither of those plans are working well at all being that I still have 3 Halo books to finish, and just bought Cosmos by Sagan.
I should really read more of the stuff I buy.
It beings!
Not sure if its the big upgrade because they had issues with the site 11 hours ago according to twitter. Could just be fixin some things, But who knows....
YourExWife
Member
I haven't read the books, and I'm sure there's even more details in them (per usual). But the American version of the movie seemed to be just chopped together, didn't flow as well, didn't pull me in to the "whodunnit" aspect at all, and like I said, left out some stuff that frankly leaves me unsure of how they're going to do some things in the sequels.
My recommendation is to watch the original films. They're subtitled of course (some people don't like watching those) but, especially with the first film, they original is better IMO. The second two films I thought were actually more awesome, because you get into the backstory and the true motives behind everything. Normally I find the American versions of films are legitimately better made, even if they make some changes (ex: "Let Me In" I thought was streets ahead of "Let the Right One In"), but not in this case.
I'm sure others might have a different opinion, but that's my take.
Der Flatulator
Member
Just the index page, but I'm excite.
Hydranockz
Member
Is this a typo? Either way it's hilarious!
Maybe we will hear something about the Halo 4 meta game and the upgraded Waypoint in the bulletin today.
Something, like all medals, would be good to know.
Groups!
(Its going to be nothing)
I would like to say that it was intentional lol
Deputy Moonman
Member
NSFW!
BOTH AT ONCE!
Finished the Thursday war since it gets dark so damn early in Costa Rica and panama, really enjoyed it, and it definitely set the table for halo 4s story. Hope we see some more of the characters from the book in game.
Also watched the first episode of forward unto dawn on my phone, good stuff. Looking forward to more episodes.
Off to snorkling in beautiful Caribbean waters
Also watched the first episode of forward unto dawn on my phone, good stuff. Looking forward to more episodes.
Off to snorkling in beautiful Caribbean waters
User 73932
Banned
The real question is, will Tashi be able to adapt to Halo 4? We will find out tomorrow...
So if Tashi gets an overkill, can we finally conclude that this game is broken?
squidhands
Member
Be sure to take your wedding bands off if you're planning on being in the water for a long time. They can fall off as your skin shrinks, and if you're not used to wearing rings you won't notice until it's too late.Finished the Thursday war since it gets dark so damn early in Costa Rica and panama, really enjoyed it, and it definitely set the table for halo 4s story. Hope we see some more of the characters from the book in game.
Also watched the first episode of forward unto dawn on my phone, good stuff. Looking forward to more episodes.
Off to snorkling in beautiful Caribbean waters
I miss the Caribbean.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Overkill.
big is November
Username origin revealed!
Thanks for the heads up.
Heh we actually haven't worn them besides for our wedding day since its just an invitation for some people here supposedly, I think that is overblown, everyone we've met here seems pretty great.
I don't think someone would try to shake us down in broad daylight anywhere we've been. But as for wedding bands while snorkling, probably wouldn't wear them them anyway
That settles that.
Hopefully we can sort our game history by playlist in H4. I never understood why Bnet had it for Reach but Waypoint didn't.
Zyos, at least, was pretty successful (at least on his own) for a couple of years into Halo 2. Darkman played on the Dream Team (membership actually varied, but included Shizznizz, StrangePurple, Zyos, I think even TSquared at one point) and won a couple of championships with 'em. I sort of remember his star fading after Walshy crushed him 1v1 on a national stage.