ViewtifulJC
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Halo |OT11| Forward Unto Dong
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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whitepeople.gif
Nice, just don't let him read the chat lol. Yeah it did. Two car garage, cathedral ceilings, relatively new construction. It's awesome. I'm closing on it at the end of November, right around the time my new car comes in off the boat. A bit nerve-racking having the two together.
It catered to all consumers, not just a niche (with halo canon). Not saying I thought it was amazing, but it was good marketing
Heard bout this 4rm hydra. Will know if I'm preordering tomorrow I think.
neoism
Member
lol achievements reach has made me stop caring completely about them.. I usually always want to 100% halo games but meh gettin to old for that shit
$.$ but such a cool feeling too... congrats!
Latvian Hitman
Member
Yes. The DMR still has bloom, but those who have played with it are saying it's a non-factor at anything but very long ranges.
Zeouterlimits
Member
... the comp just ended I think. Although they may still take entries, it seems like the comp went under the radar maybe more than they expected.
NBC interview with Jen Taylor (Cortana), may have already been posted.
neoism
Member
mario 64 <3 ... I love watching this......
Aren't you the guy, who is crazy about Japanese cars? Which one is it, if I may ask?
Also congratz, sounds great.
GodlyPerfection
Member
BlueScrote
Member
Godamnnit, I was reading up on Naomi from Glasslands and I think I spoiled myself on parts of Thursday War.
Also, in the fiction is it assumed that all the mjolnir armor is the olive green, unless otherwise stated? I think it states somewhere that Naomi had blue armor (and there's a blue spartan on the Thursday War cover).
Also, in the fiction is it assumed that all the mjolnir armor is the olive green, unless otherwise stated? I think it states somewhere that Naomi had blue armor (and there's a blue spartan on the Thursday War cover).
Here's the post i mentioned i would provide earlier. Getting it out now before Sandy hits. It is not my intention to derail the hype train since most players are looking forward to Multiplayer and could care less about Campaign films and scoring. Although it may seem like one, this is not a complaint post. It merely serves as a permalink we can point to in a future 'missing features' bullet list.
This post assumes the following legacy features (Halo 3, Halo 3:ODST, Halo: Reach) have been cut from Halo 4. Campaign Saved Films and Film Clips. Uploading Campaign films to your Halo Waypoint File Share with the ability to share them with others. Campaign scoring and stats (primarily, the visible timer), both in-game and online. Should any of these features be confirmed to be in the game i will alter the post with the new information.
The intention is to demonstrate how cutting legacy features can have a devastating effect on long time fan-based communities, similar to how removing the game's API can shut down communities like HaloCharts. For those who are not familiar, the High Speed Halo site is graciously hosted by HBO and was started in early 2004 by HBO members shortly after the Going Nowhere Fast competition. The goal of the site may seem competitive in nature, but it is actually a source of highly entertaining and informative gameplay videos, where our stable of talented runners cooperate to bring the Campaign Mission times down, as an outlet to express our love of the game, the series, and the makers of the game.
If i use your quote please don't feel the need to respond. You just happened to type a key word which set the stage for my reply.
Halo CE and Halo 2 were played on the original Xbox. Both games had issues where the PAL and NTSC versions played very differently. For instance, Halo CE on PAL boxes saw slower Ghost speeds, the doors on The Library opened much slower, yet there was almost no "fall timer" so you could drop down from the AotCR bridge with ease. Halo 2 PAL users could Sword-lunge through glass (there are more examples which elude me atm). It was decided early to keep things simple and let the PAL/NTSC players dominate on Missions where they had the advantage. If there were any differences between the various hardware generations and configurations it was not apparent to us.
Halo 3 saw the introduction of the VERY accurate in-game timer which was reflected on the Post Game Carnage Report following the film, and available on b.net. Due to this addition we didn't realize that those those tiny pauses you barely notice during gameplay, sometimes accompanied by a 'Loading...Done' marker, added up to a great deal of time.
Video 1 played on my 360 from the DVD drive. The game pauses for 33 frames. (wait until the video is fully loaded before pressing Play)
Video 2 played on my 360 from the HD . The game pauses for 3 frames or, 1 second less than the disc pause.
This is from an early 2008 post at High Impact Halo
[edit - from RC Master]Even with Saved Films, I remembered that the same film, being played back on the same Xbox, can come out slightly differently. For example, in this video I had a first person screen for the main view and a 3rd person view to help with comprehension (since Blind is on) in PiP style. This is from the same film file, on the same xbox, recorded only minutes apart, following the same player. Yet the actual recording gets out-of-sync with one another! I had to hand edit all the fades in there, including putting in extra frames or cutting out doubled frames, to keep the two videos synced.
Fortunately, the in-game timer also paused with these loads so the timer accurately reflected the actual time that the runner was in control over the duration of the speed run. As you can see we came to rely on this feature as it allowed us to verify runs beyond any doubt. If YouTube commenters cried foul we would quiet them by pointing to b.net.
[edit] The in-game timer also made up for any input lag or network lag while playing co-op.
Along comes Halo: Reach. For some reason they (Bungie, obviously) decided to eliminate the Post Game Carnage Report from the end of game films. They also changed the stat reporting at b.net so the completion time of the mission was rounded up to the next whole minute, eliminating the ability to link to an accurate timer. This was not too much of a problem since the in-game timer was running in the bottom right of the HUD and the time on the final frame of the video was now used as the official run time. A visible in-game timer was one of the requirements for submitting a run and several runs were disqualified for omitting it.
SLASO is a different story. Halo Waypoint rightly dropped the Blind skull requirement on LASO Challenge runs but at High Speed Halo we only recognize SLASO runs with the Blind skull turned on. With no visible timer on the HUD scoring a SLASO run without an accurate Carnage Report is a contentious amalgam of science and witchcraft. RC Master is the only person in the world i trust to accurately time a SLASO run and his methods for doing so required a similar Legendary run with the timer running for comparison.
It is absolutely impossible to accurately time a speed run based on the video alone unless someone is willing to sift through each one and remove the redundant frames. WSplit, Kazami, and w00ty may work for other games and consoles, but for Halo on the Xbox there is no alternative to the in-game timer.
High Speed Halo has processed nearly 200 Reach speed runs. We had assumed CEA would bring back many of the old runners and a new breed of runners eager to bring down the old records. When it was announced there would be no Theater mode we were disappointed but figured we would still receive a large number of runs from players with HD capturing rigs.
Do you know how many Halo CEA speed runs we received?
.
That's right,
Our entire gallery of CEA runs contains
.
The next issue is barriers to entry and this includes video capture.
With Halo CE and Halo 2 runners weren't even required to subscribe to XBL. They would keep the VCR running while they made their speed run attempts. When you ran out of tape you would rewind and try again. Runners actually mailed VHS, Betamax, and DVD+-R Halo CE and Halo 2 runs to Cody Miller and myself. Cody even had the means to read out of region DVDs.
SD capture cards could be had for $20 to $30, and recordable DVDs could be ripped with MPEGStreamclip (free software) and other screen cap programs for Halo PC and Halo2 Vista. Halo 3 saw these devices tossed out and never replaced by the average player since we offered to capture and host their runs in 720p. With Halo 3 and beyond you were required to subscribe to XBL but with theatre available there were workarounds for players who couldn't afford XBL.
Now, anyone wishing to participate must purchase an expensive HD capture card (there is no way we are going back to SD quality) and have the bandwidth available to upload multi-gigabyte video files. Not to mention the fact that i would have to up my bandwidth cap (wtf!! Canadian ISPs) because i have to download the run and upload to the HSH YouTube account. If we switch our focus to SpOps we will be requiring runners to also purchase that DLC.
So, where are we at?
No Theater or File Share.
No scoring, stats or timer, in-game or online.
Hardware differences severely affect video length (keep in mind new speed runs routinely beat old runs by 1 or 2 seconds).
No methods to properly verify a run.
Video quality will suffer due to different capture devices and compression codecs.
Difficult to detect cheating (runs with editing, accelerated video, and modding have been submitted previously).
Switching to SpOps requires DLC and will certainly pale in comparison to the main Campaign as far as entertainment value of speed runs are concerned.
Without the means to capture and upload (unverifiable) runs, most of our stable of runners will be left behind.
Is this the end for High Speed Halo?
Pretty sure it is, but i'm going to wait until the other admins get back to me, then see if SpOps can sustain a level of interest before i make any decisions. [edit] Theatre is not provided for SpOps.
Who knows, there may be some compelling aspect of the game we're not yet seeing.
cheers
nok
This post assumes the following legacy features (Halo 3, Halo 3:ODST, Halo: Reach) have been cut from Halo 4. Campaign Saved Films and Film Clips. Uploading Campaign films to your Halo Waypoint File Share with the ability to share them with others. Campaign scoring and stats (primarily, the visible timer), both in-game and online. Should any of these features be confirmed to be in the game i will alter the post with the new information.
The intention is to demonstrate how cutting legacy features can have a devastating effect on long time fan-based communities, similar to how removing the game's API can shut down communities like HaloCharts. For those who are not familiar, the High Speed Halo site is graciously hosted by HBO and was started in early 2004 by HBO members shortly after the Going Nowhere Fast competition. The goal of the site may seem competitive in nature, but it is actually a source of highly entertaining and informative gameplay videos, where our stable of talented runners cooperate to bring the Campaign Mission times down, as an outlet to express our love of the game, the series, and the makers of the game.
If i use your quote please don't feel the need to respond. You just happened to type a key word which set the stage for my reply.
It is.
Halo CE and Halo 2 were played on the original Xbox. Both games had issues where the PAL and NTSC versions played very differently. For instance, Halo CE on PAL boxes saw slower Ghost speeds, the doors on The Library opened much slower, yet there was almost no "fall timer" so you could drop down from the AotCR bridge with ease. Halo 2 PAL users could Sword-lunge through glass (there are more examples which elude me atm). It was decided early to keep things simple and let the PAL/NTSC players dominate on Missions where they had the advantage. If there were any differences between the various hardware generations and configurations it was not apparent to us.
Halo 3 saw the introduction of the VERY accurate in-game timer which was reflected on the Post Game Carnage Report following the film, and available on b.net. Due to this addition we didn't realize that those those tiny pauses you barely notice during gameplay, sometimes accompanied by a 'Loading...Done' marker, added up to a great deal of time.
With Halo 3 the PAL/NTSC issues were gone but it became clear that different configurations of the XBOX 360's hardware, the HD, and the various DVD drives, and the fact that some gamers had loaded the game onto their Hard Drive, had a huge impact on the mid-level asset and cut scene loading times.
Video 1 played on my 360 from the DVD drive. The game pauses for 33 frames. (wait until the video is fully loaded before pressing Play)
Video 2 played on my 360 from the HD . The game pauses for 3 frames or, 1 second less than the disc pause.
This is from an early 2008 post at High Impact Halo
Over the course of a 4 minute run there can be up to 30 seconds of these micro-pauses caused only by the hardware. Imagine what this could mean for Single Segment runs (whole game in one sitting).
[edit - from RC Master]Even with Saved Films, I remembered that the same film, being played back on the same Xbox, can come out slightly differently. For example, in this video I had a first person screen for the main view and a 3rd person view to help with comprehension (since Blind is on) in PiP style. This is from the same film file, on the same xbox, recorded only minutes apart, following the same player. Yet the actual recording gets out-of-sync with one another! I had to hand edit all the fades in there, including putting in extra frames or cutting out doubled frames, to keep the two videos synced.
Fortunately, the in-game timer also paused with these loads so the timer accurately reflected the actual time that the runner was in control over the duration of the speed run. As you can see we came to rely on this feature as it allowed us to verify runs beyond any doubt. If YouTube commenters cried foul we would quiet them by pointing to b.net.
[edit] The in-game timer also made up for any input lag or network lag while playing co-op.
Along comes Halo: Reach. For some reason they (Bungie, obviously) decided to eliminate the Post Game Carnage Report from the end of game films. They also changed the stat reporting at b.net so the completion time of the mission was rounded up to the next whole minute, eliminating the ability to link to an accurate timer. This was not too much of a problem since the in-game timer was running in the bottom right of the HUD and the time on the final frame of the video was now used as the official run time. A visible in-game timer was one of the requirements for submitting a run and several runs were disqualified for omitting it.
SLASO is a different story. Halo Waypoint rightly dropped the Blind skull requirement on LASO Challenge runs but at High Speed Halo we only recognize SLASO runs with the Blind skull turned on. With no visible timer on the HUD scoring a SLASO run without an accurate Carnage Report is a contentious amalgam of science and witchcraft. RC Master is the only person in the world i trust to accurately time a SLASO run and his methods for doing so required a similar Legendary run with the timer running for comparison.
It is absolutely impossible to accurately time a speed run based on the video alone unless someone is willing to sift through each one and remove the redundant frames. WSplit, Kazami, and w00ty may work for other games and consoles, but for Halo on the Xbox there is no alternative to the in-game timer.
High Speed Halo has processed nearly 200 Reach speed runs. We had assumed CEA would bring back many of the old runners and a new breed of runners eager to bring down the old records. When it was announced there would be no Theater mode we were disappointed but figured we would still receive a large number of runs from players with HD capturing rigs.
Do you know how many Halo CEA speed runs we received?
Two
That's right,
TWO!
two Heroic runs submitted by ferlodergarnil
The next issue is barriers to entry and this includes video capture.
With Halo CE and Halo 2 runners weren't even required to subscribe to XBL. They would keep the VCR running while they made their speed run attempts. When you ran out of tape you would rewind and try again. Runners actually mailed VHS, Betamax, and DVD+-R Halo CE and Halo 2 runs to Cody Miller and myself. Cody even had the means to read out of region DVDs.
SD capture cards could be had for $20 to $30, and recordable DVDs could be ripped with MPEGStreamclip (free software) and other screen cap programs for Halo PC and Halo2 Vista. Halo 3 saw these devices tossed out and never replaced by the average player since we offered to capture and host their runs in 720p. With Halo 3 and beyond you were required to subscribe to XBL but with theatre available there were workarounds for players who couldn't afford XBL.
Now, anyone wishing to participate must purchase an expensive HD capture card (there is no way we are going back to SD quality) and have the bandwidth available to upload multi-gigabyte video files. Not to mention the fact that i would have to up my bandwidth cap (wtf!! Canadian ISPs) because i have to download the run and upload to the HSH YouTube account. If we switch our focus to SpOps we will be requiring runners to also purchase that DLC.
So, where are we at?
No Theater or File Share.
No scoring, stats or timer, in-game or online.
Hardware differences severely affect video length (keep in mind new speed runs routinely beat old runs by 1 or 2 seconds).
No methods to properly verify a run.
Video quality will suffer due to different capture devices and compression codecs.
Difficult to detect cheating (runs with editing, accelerated video, and modding have been submitted previously).
Switching to SpOps requires DLC and will certainly pale in comparison to the main Campaign as far as entertainment value of speed runs are concerned.
Without the means to capture and upload (unverifiable) runs, most of our stable of runners will be left behind.
Is this the end for High Speed Halo?
Pretty sure it is, but i'm going to wait until the other admins get back to me, then see if SpOps can sustain a level of interest before i make any decisions. [edit] Theatre is not provided for SpOps.
Who knows, there may be some compelling aspect of the game we're not yet seeing.
cheers
nok
kyle has ruined my life with this shitSir the dog days are over.
Edit: Holy ass ^^ *reading*
please put this in for all that is holy
from xJumPeR_JumPzZ
say whaaat
Zeouterlimits
Member
Poker Face
Member
RIP Campaign theater.
This blows :/
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Reagan's BR
Banned
Kyle's OT will be up soon.
yeah $$$ pretty much. worth it though!
danke. 2013 Subaru Impreza STI sedan.
the insanity of the chat combined with the potential for drama in every run makes it very addicting.
He better actually do it.
Rickenslacker
Banned
oh how i wish chief actually looked like that now. or at least use those shoulders.RIP campaign theater
but hey Mark VI
Hydra, this is why I was saying to wait for Nok. I couldn't have said any of this half as well as he did. We still don't have confirmation whether the rumored cuts are true or not so it wasn't worth diving in too deep but if Nok and his crew think it will kill their community, I'm inclined to believe them.
Reagan's BR
Banned
I'm serious too. It'd better be the first post in the OT.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
New covenant dropship, I suppose
edit: No Falcon/Chopper/Promethean vehicles make ViewtifulJC a sad boy
agree
GodlyPerfection
Member
Great post Nok... if the cuts are true, we can only hope that Spartan Ops may fill the void... best of luck once again.
So... no Spartan Ops theater either?
Same engine. Same great letdown taste.
YourExWife
Member
I get Midas, but what about Unconquered makes it a terrible design with no flow whatsoever? Where are the holdout spots that you experience where both teams stick to rather than move around? And what kind of problems do you have with Ellul? I've heard a couple mentions on spawns on the map mainly because of its size.
And it is interesting that you like Imago as that has been one of the more poorly received maps of that batch, especially among the competitive forgers crowd. I also experience Ellul getting voted over most maps, Unconquered is kinda off and on so I can see where you are coming from. I've personally had no problems with flow on Unconquered and have experienced movement shifting throughout most of the match, but obviously that can't be the case for everyone.
And curious as to what your favorite and least favorite BTB maps are. Feedback is crucial to refining the process, so the more you can point out the better the process can get.
Sorry took so long, but I still wanted to answer this.
Unconquered - all you have to do is take over the snipe side and you essentially autowin unless your teammates wear diapers. You hold up top and can easily watch every conceivable attack venue, at worst on level ground (up top) and at worst, with a height advantage. Once there, you have easy access to the new snipes and GLs. There is literally no way for an attacking team to get past that point undetected (again, unless you're just screwing off). Other than picking up the new weapons every so often, the bottom of the map is *never* used and it's just the attacking team rushing the side corridor and bridge up top over and over.
Ellul - broken in much the same way. One team (I forget the color) spawns closer to rockets than the other, especially if they have a jetpacker. Even if they get shot at going for those rockets, they have multiple escape routes (like jumping straight down the lifts a la H2 Lockout) and still can team shoot. Since the sniper spawn is in that pointless tunnel, the rockets are a higher priority at the beginning and in 99% of games I've played on that map, lead to securing the sniper. I'll give some credit in that the two bases are different but both defensible, but one is waaaayyyy easier to choke access (again I don't remember the color). The map is insanely dependent on verticality and almost forces your team to jetpack if you'd like a win. There's just too much of the map where the jetpack breaks any decent flow and defensibility it might have had.
Imago - Thanks to well placed rocks and decent tactical jumps, jetpack isn't necessary. Both teams have an equal chance at equal weapons off of spawn. The sightlines are efficient but still allow for inventiveness. The geometry isn't too bland and allows for some interesting battles (do I risk the exposed path on rocket or GL sides or do we take a chance on the bottom and use the rocks and maneuverability to our advantage?). There's enough cover in the battle-prone areas without being excessive enough to lead to corridor battles (a la ellul/unconquered). You can actually have organized setups (to a point), but they aren't so overpowered that they can't be broken. *The only problem I have with Imago* is the spawns. Gaining ground means nothing. You can have 3 men on your side, 1 just past the midpoint and their entire team in their base, and they'll spawn behind you if you kill them. Or they won't. But maybe they will. Or, in an equally bad situation (for the other team), you can be all over the enemy base and they'll keep spawning there for a few lives, defenseless. And God-forbid you hold either rocket or grenade launcher side! They'll spawn with you, around you, on the ground, at the bases (either near or far), anywhere! It has potential to be fun, but when you die because of bullshit, that ruins it.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Man, that was a sad read Nok. For me, it's the pretty pictures will fill my hard drive, but HSH, is worth far more than that.
Guess not. Expected, considering the tech would be similar to Campaign.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
That Spartan Ops co-op netcode better be GODLIKE to make up for so much focus on it
I just want HD screenshots of my personal experience with the campaign without going out and buying a capture card. Is that so much to ask for?Sorry campaign guys
HiredN00bs
Member
I wish I had known about HSH a while ago, I like speedruns. I feel like I'm just getting interested in it as it's ending.
C'mon 343.
Thinking about getting a capture card.
C'mon 343.
Thinking about getting a capture card.
I'm not mocking you, I feel bad.
I do have a capture card so I can help out if you guys want something, feel free to PM me.
xxjuicesxx
Member
RIP Halo.
Reagan's BR
Banned
I still don't understand why they would cut it.
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