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Halo |OT13|
- Thread starter kylej
- Start date
- Status
Reagan's BR
Banned
Or we could just remove AAs entirely.
They didn't make it like Reach, they saw Reach's problems and acted upon them quite successfully. Bloom? Gone. Movement? Improved. Visuals? Cleaner, just. Unfortunately, in their attempt to carve their own vision for Halo 4 they introduced a series of separate, new problems that could well become as prevalent in fan's dislike for the series as those we saw in Reach.
I've been open and honest from before the game released that I didn't agree with their vision, it didn't excite me, and it didn't make sense to me, but they at least tried something unique (to this particular franchise, not to the genre as a whole), for better or for worse.
As for your final point, I think you're underestimating the amount of time it takes to firstly accumulate all the feedback from each and every portion of the community, extrapolate meaningful data from that, design and work on fixes accordingly, and get it certifiable for Xbox Live. It's not a case of banging out a patch over night because Neogaf doesn't like something, that's for sure.
They did discuss and test a double jump during pre-production, but it didn't make the cut for reasons unknown. It mustn't have been as successful in practicality as it appears in theory.
Agreed they can keep them in campaign, but keep them out of my multiplayer.
Hydranockz
Member
And the things that made those games good are subjective. You have wildly differing definitions of Halo. That's my point. You say to take the good things but your good things differ from mine. You're not going to make a successful game with a simplistic outlook that only considers what you like.
I think Halo as a franchise has started spinning too many plates. Feature sets, sandbox items, storytelling methods, community integration and plenty more. Plates will fall. This is more evident now than before. I don't think Halo 4 is a bad game. I think the franchise got bigger than itself, for everyone involved.
I think they maxed out the 360 with their scope for Halo with Reach. The cracks were showing. The writing was on the wall. Adding more to that was an impossible task without drawbacks somewhere.
This is one thing but then you take dev cycles, the market in general, the rise of COD, the expectations of consumers, the length of the series and possible saturation of Halo. Take all of it together and the issues compound upon themselves.
I think making Halo 4 successful to the degree of the series' greats is and was near impossible.
Tha Robbertster
Member
Merry Christmas (Eve) people!
Reagan's BR
Banned
They did change somethings but on the whole Halo 4 is just as big of a mess as Reach was. I don't remember anyone begging for more AAs or Random Weapon drops. They need to go back to what works and see where they can add, improve, and refine things from there.
You too! I'm unlucky enough to have to work this entire wek but at the same time very fortunate to have a job.
I agree, and I voiced this very opinion during the first unveiling of Halo 4 when armour abilities were present. I asked what specific benefit they offer the Halo sandbox from a multiplayer perspective, and got no response.
I think back then I assumed we were going to receive a Vidoc down the line that would explain all this, and 343's thinking on the subject, but that never materialised. This was partly a hangover from experiencing Bungie's level of community engagement over the last decade, something I now realise to be a bit naive.
I'm still keen to hear their thoughts on the matter, though.
One last thing about separating AA's for singleplayer and multi, is that they had the perfect fiction foil to do so. They could've conceivably said that Spartan 2's armour allowed for the armour abilities, but Spartan 4's didn't, for cost purposes, or something.
Reagan's BR
Banned
Hydranockz
Member
Every DS game ever disagrees.
Reagan's BR
Banned
I think GAF has a word for it...bomba.
As much as the series should go back to its roots... It won't.
Best we can hope for is a playlist or more of no bullshit gameplay.
I've pretty much accepted this. Bungie had core tenants for Halo since they are the creators, 343 is mostly fans, most of whom come from different games with different design philosophies. I think the direction they're taking the series is clear.
Aside from the "classic" playlists, I can also hope the vanilla game isn't as big of a clusterfuck
Best we can hope for is a playlist or more of no bullshit gameplay.
I've pretty much accepted this. Bungie had core tenants for Halo since they are the creators, 343 is mostly fans, most of whom come from different games with different design philosophies. I think the direction they're taking the series is clear.
Aside from the "classic" playlists, I can also hope the vanilla game isn't as big of a clusterfuck
Actually it's neither. It's a rolling promotion with select retailers.
Anyway Merry Christmas gafers, happy holdiays, belated Hannukah, kwanza etc. And whatever that creepy germanic/nordic shit is with the more satanic Father Christmas/sneaky pete or whatever.
Reagan's BR
Banned
The Lamonster
Member
Merry Christmas Eve! Looking forward to chipping away at the new set of weeklies and dailies this morning. About to get my purple visor. Hypeeeeee
Reagan's BR
Banned
There aren't any xbox in Japan to play it on.
Orochinagis
Member
Also it sounds pedantic but I do find it irritating that all grenade indicators are the frag symbol in-game. Should have been the symbol of that specific grenade.
It's almost as irritating when I go back to Halo 1 and both the Plasma and Frag make the same sound in the UI
I think the grenade indicator really is just visual clutter that doesn't help me (is the grenade in front of me, behind me, etc.) I've found the hitmarkers at least useful for grenade throwing--I can chuck a grenade and know if I damaged a player, or if I'm going in blind find out if there's someone camping the corner--for actual gunplay I don't really need it either way.
MrGreencastle
Member
Happy Holidays, GAF.
Black out or back out, baby!
Black out or back out, baby!
Bravo updates us on the Infinity Challenge. Good work Bravo, clear and direct!
Orochinagis
Member
Some mexicans are there, even a spain.
The Librarian
Banned
D'aw. Same to you, Mr. O'Connor.
Did that dude play 601 games of spartan ops in a week?
lol - that's because you don't frequent the places where those people hang out. And when someone cherry-picks something ridiculous from one of those forums and posts it here, you're happy to ridicule it along with everyone else.
Bottom line - it doesn't MATTER that you don't remember anyone begging for the features you don't like, because if you did, you'd dismiss their opinion anyway.
Stop defending this terrible game.
You're opinion is just as valid as anyone else's, however I notice you tend to disagree with a lot of people here. Why post of you're just going to argue with people?
Take, for example, the post I quoted. It's pretty negative, and there's a lot of if's and generalizations about that person - meaning assumptions. If someone were to make so many assumptions about myself, I'd be slightly offended.
If everyone had the same opinion this wouldn't be a forum, it'd be a circle jerk. And just because many people believe one thing doesn't make it true, so Wu's perfectly justified in going against the grain.
AHappyPanda
Member
This thread isn't a circlejerk of hate?
Can't tell if serious...
Yes, my post was negative. My last few posts have been negative, and all with the same slant - I'm finding that there is so much pigpiling going on, reasonable discussion isn't happening. I come to GAF because there are some pretty serious franchise fans here... and some pretty articulate people. For years, I enjoyed following decent discussions, and friendly banter, all interspersed with tons of easily-harvestable content to share with other parts of the Halo community.
Lately, that's been less true. This place seems more like conservative talk radio than a real community - everyone's got the same talking points, and very few are willing to consider there might be other, equally valid points of view.
GAF's becoming a waste of my time.
(And yes, before you bother, kyle, I can leave - but that really hurts me more than anyone else.) I guess I just wish we could get back to that easy banter time. Reagan's BR
Banned
I guess I just wish we could get back to that easy banter time.
If the game was good the community would be much more lively.
It's certainly more negative than positive, which is natural given how Halo 4 turned out, but there's still room for discussion and debate. More importantly it shouldn't devolve further into telling people to stop participating because they don't agree with a particular opinion.
The Librarian
Banned
Quickly, everyone, we must crush all dissenting points of view. It's the only way we can make sure we're right!
Also, when are you going to get tired of making these lazy posts about Halo 4? I mean, I assume eventually you'll get tired of making them, right? It's just a game after all. Make your peace with it and move on.
Also, when are you going to get tired of making these lazy posts about Halo 4? I mean, I assume eventually you'll get tired of making them, right? It's just a game after all. Make your peace with it and move on.
The Lamonster
Member
I have to interject here - I think the game is awesome. Way better than Reach and eased my anxieties about a new captain at the helm.
It's buggy and needs some love but that hasn't stopped me and my old Halo 2 clan buddies for playing it several hours almost daily.
AHappyPanda
Member
IMO, it's about 1000% better than Reach, and better than 3 in terms of feel (movement, shooting (sup hit-scan), and melees specifically) if you ask me.
Halo 2 still reigns supreme, but 4 brought back a certain feel to the series for me.
That being said, there's still fucktons wrong with the game, many of which have been echoed several times throughout this thread. Camo is OP (or remove all AAs ), the need for a vanilla (or MLG) playlist again, random ordinance blows, red Xs needed, respawn timers are fucked, maps are bad except for maybe 2 or 3
I still enjoy the game though...partially because before it launched I sorta accepted the fact that this will never be the Halo game I want and that I have to live with it, and so far I have. I've definitely had some rage moments thought with the amount of bullshit I've encountered.
It's not that hard 343i...if you want people to play your game on a serious competitive level...remove luck, insert skill.
Nooo don't gooo.Can't tell if serious...
Yes, my post was negative. My last few posts have been negative, and all with the same slant - I'm finding that there is so much pigpiling going on, reasonable discussion isn't happening. I come to GAF because there are some pretty serious franchise fans here... and some pretty articulate people. For years, I enjoyed following decent discussions, and friendly banter, all interspersed with tons of easily-harvestable content to share with other parts of the Halo community.
Lately, that's been less true. This place seems more like conservative talk radio than a real community - everyone's got the same talking points, and very few are willing to consider there might be other, equally valid points of view.
GAF's becoming a waste of my time.
As for the original point, I totally saw some people wanting cool new AA's. Its become part of the sandbox (unfortunately) so people want new and more AA's like they want new and more vehicles and weapons.
As for the random ordnance you're partially right. No one wanted completely random ordnance drops. Anyone who did, to be blunt, was completely wrong. Im all for being open minded but random ordnance in this form was such a bad idea and i can't find anyway to spin it to be good. It says something that when ordnance was announced to be random, people here were disappointed but everyone assumed this meant we would get a warning before the drop, because that at least makes sense.
NOPE. you actually need to grind a specialization for that...
I did hear some people complaining about power weapon whoring. Hell i complained about that shit in Halo 3 before I started realizing how easy it is to time spawns.
But instead of taking the logical route and helping new players locate and know when weapons are spawning(waypoint, giving a warning) they made it so everyone is equally as lost as the new players. Makes NO sense.
This is my biggest problem with it, actually - the amount of love it needs.
I enjoy playing it. I play plenty of it. But some of the decisions 343 made are... hard for me to understand. I'm not even talking about the huge gamechangers, like no one-sided objective games - I'm still wrapping my head around those, and haven't fully decided one way or the other whether I think this is a long-term mistake. I'm talking about tiny things - lots and lots and lots of tiny things. Things like how many buttons I have to press to save the latest film, or to send someone a message. (It's actually easier to go through the guide button to interact with other players, for the most part, than to use the Halo 4 UI.)
And maybe some of the not-so-tiny stuff, like enemy AI in Campaign and Spartan Ops. I was playing the final chapter of Episode 5 a couple of days ago, and I was actually SURPRISED when an elite, a few hundred yards away, jumped out of the way of a rocket I fired at him. (He won't move if I ding him with DMR fire - in fact, he'll remain in place until he falls down dead - but he will actually walk out of the range of splash damage if I fire a rocket at him.)
My reaction to his reaction hit home - and yesterday, it hit home even harder. I played through The Pillar of Autumn on Reach... and was ASTOUNDED by how much harder it is to fight the Covenant in that game. (This was actually a good thing.) It got me thinking about how Halo 4's way of ramping up the difficulty is to simply add more baddies - this, coupled with a scary-bad spawn system on Spartan Ops, says that as long as you don't die, you're fine - but die once, and you'll die a dozen times. In Reach, it's far easier to die that first time... but when you respawn, you're generally given a chance to breathe, and find a new way to approach the problem - it's more about ME and MY ABILITIES than about the system simply overwhelming me.
I actually enjoy Halo 4's campaign - and I have high hopes that the second half of the Spartan Ops season will make me want to jump in again. And for the most part, I can live with the UI, and the problems that pop up are transient annoyances. But when I make a direct comparison to what came before, I have trouble understanding WHY some of the changes have been made, beyond 'to put our own stamp on this game'.
See? It's not all butterflies and roses here.
I'm happy to point out the things that don't work for me - I just wish we could discuss them without sinking to 'game sucks, developer sucks, moving on'. - Status