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[Tawpgun]

Without random ordnance, you'd be playing the same game as before, except your casual friends wouldn't have to ask you where Rockets spawn or why we're camping at this one building over here. They'd already be at that building fighting for Rockets because the game told them shit was going down. As well, you wouldn't have to do "map walk-throughs" or pay such attention to the clock.

I know, it feels good to have knowledge no one else has and kill them with it, but something as crucial as where and when Rockets spawn in a mode about getting the most kills? That a Halo game hasn't introduced that knowledge to the player directly before Halo 4 is surprising. It'd be a lot like playing King of the Hill without waypoints or an announcer saying "HILL MOVED".

While I never heard of anyone complaining where power weapons spawn among my casual halo friends... I agree that a system of HUD waypoints, maybe even a bit of warning would be better.

I was saying ugh that you used antiquated as a word to describe Halo's old design. Made me cry inside.

But even having a 15 second or so warning for random ordnance is kinda meh. I'd much rather know rockets are going to spawn HERE in 3 minutes.

 

[Digital Limit]

Wasn't being condescending to you bro, calm down.

I was ragging on the system because you not understanding how it works shows that its a terrible system. Everyone should be able to understand how the weapons drop.

I'm not sure about the snipers on Ragnarok, they could be similar to how grenade ordnance works, meaning once you pick it up a 3 minute timer starts. Might be to try and emulate Halo 3's static spawns.

But everywhere else it works like this.

Start of the game: Weapon drop in, you know where these are, you know what these are. This is INITIAL ORDNANCE.

Then, from there on in, on every map (except seemingly Ragnarok snipers) a random weapon will drop in every 2 minutes on the gameclock, regardless if anyone picked anything up. So at 10 minutes, 8 minutes, 6 minutes etc a new weapon spawns on the map.

But this is a random location, and a random weapon.

Initial ordnance is just there for the beginning, the entire system is replaced by global "2 minute random" ordnance.

Ragnarok being the exception I guess.

Lol, let's not explain something we both understand to each other. I agree that it's convoluted. The Ragnarok exception is part of the sloppiness in their implementation. I also believe the Incineration Cannons on Meltdown have the same 3 minute respawn. I'd have to check, but I don't think they're reintroduced through random ordnance.

I looked at all of this awhile ago when I was researching weapon spawns for my Avalanche remake.

 

[YourExWife]

Without random ordnance, you'd be playing the same game as before, except your casual friends wouldn't have to ask you where Rockets spawn or why we're camping at this one building over here. They'd already be at that building fighting for Rockets because the game told them shit was going down. As well, you wouldn't have to do "map walk-throughs" or pay such attention to the clock.

I know, it feels good to have knowledge no one else has and kill them with it, but something as crucial as where and when Rockets spawn in a mode about getting the most kills? That a Halo game hasn't introduced that knowledge to the player directly before Halo 4 is surprising. It'd be a lot like playing King of the Hill without waypoints or an announcer saying "HILL MOVED".

Good thing there's a specialization that let's you do this exact thing, huh? It's fucking stupid. You have one person with Drop Recon and you have a sick advantage. It negates the entire idea behind random ordnance to begin with, so why have it?

 

[kittens]

While I never heard of anyone complaining where power weapons spawn among my casual halo friends... I agree that a system of HUD waypoints, maybe even a bit of warning would be better.

I don't think it would be better per se, but it would be acceptable. Global ordnance, on the other hand, is a gross deviation from a core dynamic of Halo multiplayer. It suuuuuuuuucks

 

[orznge]

"For me, Halo: CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo Reach just didn't appeal to me. How was I supposed to find out where the weapons spawned? Furthermore, how was I supposed to remember? Even with skill-based matchmaking in place, the lowest rungs on the Halo ladder has accumulated a wealth of knowledge that I found to be an insurmountable barrier to entry.

Thankfully, when Microsoft handed Halo over to 343 Industries they took a hard look at the game's design and no longer will I be barred from playing the game because of Mountain Dew-swilling, Dorito munching loudmouthed 13 year olds who play the game 12 hours a day every day. Halo is back!"

- testimonial from back of the Halo 4 box about real issue that a real person actually had with the Halo series until the year 2012

 

[Havok]

"reactive" and "predictive", as you cited from HaloGAF Radio, are two different methods by which you can facilitate weapon/map control; so why do you take it upon yourself to argue that one has innately more merit than the other without writing a single sentence that explains anything from a strategic perspective?

It's important to note, I think, that when I used the terms reactive and predictive on the show and in the article, I was not using them to depict the new system favorably. I think that by removing the constants that players previously used to predict behavior of other players and adapt their own gameplay style to that prediction, you turn what was a tightly-paced and controlled experience (one that was fairly unique among today's shooters) into a mad, chaotic scramble for the new drop.

Invasion Slayer and Skirmish used the waypointed warning drop system and it was a clusterfuck. So I would refer anyone who thinks that it would be good to that shitty gametype.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

That doesn't sound right, Trueskill matches you with players your skill level now more than ever according to the developers.

BUT AT WHAT COST

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I don't have specializations yet. I'm SR 29 I think. Gotta go pickup a case of The Dew. Berbz (Be Right Backz).

 

[Digital Limit]

While I never heard of anyone complaining where power weapons spawn among my casual halo friends... I agree that a system of HUD waypoints, maybe even a bit of warning would be better.

I was saying ugh that you used antiquated as a word to describe Halo's old design. Made me cry inside.

But even having a 15 second or so warning for random ordnance is kinda meh. I'd much rather know rockets are going to spawn HERE in 3 minutes.

I'm mostly in defense of Global Ordnance in terms of static ordnance with icons, announcer stuff and a countdown. Random ordnance with all of that is interesting as well—and could be another game type—but I agree with Juices that it kills callouts and also kills some of the identity maps gain by having weapons being predictive.

Just think about Zanzibar without the Sword spawning in the middle of the fan. It's weird, and my heart can ache for that, too But at the same time, I really enjoy King of the Hill and Extraction, and having essentially a Slayer variant of that really excites me, since that's the purest way to get players to move around the map and not really care if kids aren't "playing the objective."

 

[dmg04]

LTTP:

Crimson is free for everyone?
Thank god I didn't waste money on the season pass

 

[Digital Limit]

It's important to note, I think, that when I used the terms reactive and predictive on the show and in the article, I was not using them to depict the new system favorably. I think that by removing the constants that players previously used to predict behavior of other players and adapt their own gameplay style to that prediction, you turn what was a tightly-paced and controlled experience (one that was fairly unique among today's shooters) into a mad, chaotic scramble for the new drop.

I don't think it's mad and chaotic, I think it's *exciting* and *dynamic*. A lot like playing King of the Hill or Extraction.

They're different experiences. I'd like both. 343 will probably only give us the one you don't want, and they'll do it poorly on top of it.

Sucks, but hey.

 

[Karl2177]

If they did that then it would be fine (since it basically would just be the weapon drop system). Although maps generally drop a lot of weapons where Global Ordnance is just a few spots, can you imagine all that grey weapon text?

I'd just want an overlay and weapon drop system. Besides power weapons need different drop times than regular weapons and who knows if the global ordnance system in 4 is even that customizeable (I'd guess no)

This was made for a reason. Why isn't it available for Halo 4?

 

[orznge]

It's important to note, I think, that when I used the terms reactive and predictive on the show and in the article, I was not using them to depict the new system favorably. I think that by removing the constants that players previously used to predict behavior of other players and adapt their own gameplay style to that prediction, you turn what was a tightly-paced and controlled experience into a mad scramble for the new drop.

I appreciate you clarifying because I admittedly haven't heard the segment. What I'm getting at though is that either approach can work well but other elements of the game must be designed around it. Easy enough when you're working with traditional FPS weapon spawns, since they've been implemented well in many games over the last two decades. On the other hand, trying to create a sweeping pseudorandom system and shoehorn it into a game that resembles a traditional deathmatch FPS in all other facets is a recipe for a weird frankenstein game.

 

[willow ve]

Good thing there's a specialization that let's you do this exact thing, huh? It's fucking stupid. You have one person with Drop Recon and you have a sick advantage. It negates the entire idea behind random ordnance to begin with, so why have it?

Yeah - this just solved the dilemma of which specialization to slog through next. Can't wait to get every single weapon drop in a game of Infinity Slayer. But at least now the random spawns will be "fair," right?

I already have a loadout named Camo Troll ... this will fit nicely into that setup.

 

[Poker Face]

This was made for a reason. Why isn't it available for Halo 4?

they couldn't find someone to outsource it to

 

[Kuroyume]

Is there a classic mode in this game without the AAs and with static weapons spawns?

 

[scar tissue]

LTTP:

Crimson is free for everyone?
Thank god I didn't waste money on the season pass

WHAT??? SERIOUSLY?

 

[Overdoziz]

I don't think it's mad and chaotic, I think it's *exciting* and *dynamic*.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

they couldn't find someone to outsource it to

People in charge of Halo 4 Atlas couldn't match up the concept art to the finished maps so they didn't know which map was which. Also, they couldn't figure out how global ordnance worked so they scratched the project and made a restaurant selection app instead.

 

[HigherLevel]

Is there a classic mode in this game without the AAs and with static weapons spawns?

That would mean the game has options, 343 doesn't believe in those.

 

[TheOddOne]

Is Halo 4 a decent game? Yeah. Is it a good Halo game? Fuck, no. Basically my feelings as a whole on the game.

 

[Genesis Knight]

My KDR is 1.96. You sure about that, big boy? :lol

Mine is 2.07. Are you afraid?

Edit: Oh shit, top of the page, uh...uh...

 

[Digital Limit]

"For me, Halo: CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo Reach just didn't appeal to me. How was I supposed to find out where the weapons spawned? Furthermore, how was I supposed to remember? Even with skill-based matchmaking in place, the lowest rungs on the Halo ladder has accumulated a wealth of knowledge that I found to be an insurmountable barrier to entry.

Thankfully, when Microsoft handed Halo over to 343 Industries they took a hard look at the game's design and no longer will I be barred from playing the game because of Mountain Dew-swilling, Dorito munching loudmouthed 13 year olds who play the game 12 hours a day every day. Halo is back!"

- testimonial from back of the Halo 4 box about real issue that a real person actually had with the Halo series until the year 2012

It's fun to have a conversation with someone who has no respect or sincerity.

If you don't believe that anyone has ever decided against Halo because of the jarring skill gap of facing someone who knows the maps versus someone who doesn't, you're living in a lonely bubble. I know plenty of people, but I also leave the house.

"reactive" and "predictive", as you cited from HaloGAF Radio, are two different methods by which you can facilitate weapon/map control; so why do you take it upon yourself to argue that one has innately more merit than the other without writing a single sentence that explains anything from a strategic perspective?

you should consider writing out your thoughts without letting hypothetical focus group pandering and PR platitudes seep into them

Predictive systems benefit veteran players. Reactive systems benefit newer players.

I'd like more of my friends to play Halo with me, so I prefer reactive systems.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

LTTP:

Crimson is free for everyone?
Thank god I didn't waste money on the season pass

No, it's not.

Speaking of K/D. I can't get mine to stay on the upswing. I'll have like 6 games where I go +10, then I'll get dominated for 6. Guess TrueSkill(tm) is working.

 

[Karl2177]

People in charge of Halo 4 Atlas couldn't match up the concept art to the finished maps so they didn't know which map was which. Also, they couldn't figure out how global ordnance worked so they scratched the project and made a restaurant selection app instead.

I don't know whether to laugh at this or feel bad.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

The thing about picking the location first is that it would be harder to weight high-tier power weapons, right? I mean, on something like Solace, you'd have a flat 2/10ish chance to get an Incineration Cannon since each spot only has one weapon tailored to it. I dunno honestly, that we have to guess like this speaks to what I think of the system.

I'm pretty sure it picks location first, with weapon weighting accomplished by the number of times you put it on the list for a specific spawn point. I'm not 100% certain though, I'm trying to remember back to NYCC when we were asking Kevin Franklin about it at the bar. Memory is a bit fuzzy from free drinks.

So from the possible locations: Point A, Point B, Point C

The system randomly picked Point C!

Now look at the weapon list for Point C:
1. SAW
2. SAW
3. SAW
4. Sticky Detonator
5. Sticky Detonator
6. Rocket Launcher
7. Incineration Cannon

(Sort of how Personal Ordnance is weighted, but not exactly.)

 

[Tawpgun]

It's fun to have a conversation with someone who has no respect or sincerity.

If you don't believe that anyone has ever decided against Halo because of the jarring skill gap of facing someone who knows the maps versus someone who doesn't, you're living in a lonely bubble. I know plenty of people, but I also leave the house.

lol

 

[Bregmann Roche]

I don't know whether to laugh at this or feel bad.

That would've been the HaloGAF box quote for Halo 4.

 

[Orochinagis]

It's fun to have a conversation with someone who has no respect or sincerity.

If you don't believe that anyone has ever decided against Halo because of the jarring skill gap of facing someone who knows the maps versus someone who doesn't, you're living in a lonely bubble. I know plenty of people, but I also leave the house.

BURNNN!!

I don't know whether to laugh at this or feel bad.

both.

 

[Tawpgun]

That would've been the HaloGAF box quote for Halo 4.

While you're actively posting, when are we going to play our match? We got matched up in the league.

 

[Digital Limit]

Good thing there's a specialization that let's you do this exact thing, huh? It's fucking stupid. You have one person with Drop Recon and you have a sick advantage. It negates the entire idea behind random ordnance to begin with, so why have it?

I'm on your team. You've gotta read all of my posts to get the full picture. Drop Recon should be an ability everyone has. So should Explosives. So should Stability. And on and on. Halo 4's a better game if everyone has every Tactical and Support package. It's kind of silly.

But as well, that's kind of the idea behind all of the perks. They change how you play. You can sacrifice one cool perk for another. Do you want to get more personal ordnance? Or do you want to know where global ordnance will drop so you can get more of that? One's riskier, but with more reward. Maybe you'd prefer Mobility and have a teammate with Drop Recon make call outs for you. In theory, it's kind of exciting.

 

[Bregmann Roche]

While you're actively posting, when are we going to play our match? We got matched up in the league.

I'm available 8-10 Eastern for the next couple of nights.

 

[Digital Limit]

I'm pretty sure it picks location first, with weapon weighting accomplished by the number of times you put it on the list for a specific spawn point. I'm not 100% certain though, I'm trying to remember back to NYCC when we were asking Kevin Franklin about it at the bar. Memory is a bit fuzzy from free drinks.

So from the possible locations: Point A, Point B, Point C

The system randomly picked Point C!

Now look at the weapon list for Point C:
1. SAW
2. SAW
3. SAW
4. Sticky Detonator
5. Sticky Detonator
6. Rocket Launcher
7. Incineration Cannon

(Sort of how Personal Ordnance is weighted, but not exactly.)

You're correct, from what I've read and experienced. This is why, at least early on, you could camp blue or red ramp in Haven with the hopes of grabbing a Binary Rifle. This is also why on Solace, Snipers—if they spawn—spawn on the right side of either base.

 

[Havok]

I don't think it's mad and chaotic, I think it's *exciting* and *dynamic*. A lot like playing King of the Hill or Extraction.

They're different experiences. I'd like both. 343 will probably only give us the one you don't want, and they'll do it poorly on top of it.

Sucks, but hey.

I can respect that opinion, and I don't think that the experiences have to be detrimental to each other or anything. The issue I have is that the new experience replaces the old rather than coexisting with it.

At the same time, I think there are certainly things they could do to tutorialize new players about static weapon systems without dramatically changing it, using something like the Boot Camp or whatever playlist Halo 3 had for new players. The same can't necessarily be said about the global ordnance system just because of its randomized nature.

I'm pretty sure it picks location first, with weapon weighting accomplished by the number of times you put it on the list for a specific spawn point. I'm not 100% certain though, I'm trying to remember back to NYCC when we were asking Kevin Franklin about it at the bar. Memory is a bit fuzzy from free drinks.

So from the possible locations: Point A, Point B, Point C

The system randomly picked Point C!

Now look at the weapon list for Point C:
1. SAW
2. SAW
3. SAW
4. Sticky Detonator
5. Sticky Detonator
6. Rocket Launcher
7. Incineration Cannon

(Sort of how Personal Ordnance is weighted, but not exactly.)

I see what you're getting at there, but that's not how they're set up in Forge - unless you mean that this is something that's happening on developer maps using developer tools. The default maps list each weapon just once in the listing, which makes me think that there has to be a hidden weighting system.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. The hoops we have to jump through to understand what this system is doing are kinda crazy.

I appreciate you clarifying because I admittedly haven't heard the segment. What I'm getting at though is that either approach can work well but other elements of the game must be designed around it. Easy enough when you're working with traditional FPS weapon spawns, since they've been implemented well in many games over the last two decades. On the other hand, trying to create a sweeping pseudorandom system and shoehorn it into a game that resembles a traditional deathmatch FPS in all other facets is a recipe for a weird frankenstein game.

Oh sure, I understood what you were saying, and I agree with it. I just thought I should give some context for what the intent of that quote was.

 

[Tawpgun]

I'm available 8-10 Eastern for the next couple of nights.

You know if Aggro is free also?

 

[dalVlatko]

I like how all this effort is going into solving a problem that goes away after maybe two games on the same map

and its not like the other level ones that you went up against when you first got the game were timing weapon spawns lol

 

[Digital Limit]

I can respect that opinion, and I don't think that the experiences have to be detrimental to each other or anything. The issue I have is that the new experience replaces the old rather than coexisting with it.

At the same time, I think there are certainly things they could do to tutorialize new players about static weapon systems without dramatically changing it, using something like the Boot Camp or whatever playlist Halo 3 had for new players. The same can't necessarily be said about the global ordnance system just because of its randomized nature.
I see what you're getting at there, but that's not how they're set up in Forge - unless you mean that this is something that's happening on developer maps using developer tools. The default maps list each weapon just once in the listing, which makes me think that there has to be a hidden weighting system.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. The hoops we have to jump through to understand what this system is doing are kinda crazy.

I doubt there's a weighting system hiding in the background for random ordnance, but it's possible. I think it just seems that way because there are so many random ordnance drops. There's no reason to weight heavy weapons lower than others... anyone can pick up random ordnance.

 

[Tawpgun]

I'm on your team. You've gotta read all of my posts to get the full picture. Drop Recon should be an ability everyone has. So should Explosives. So should Stability. And on and on. Halo 4's a better game if everyone has every Tactical and Support package. It's kind of silly.

This is a good point on the shit design philosophy that ruined Halo 4.

With the exception of some, it seems like Halo 4 stripped the player of all of the abilities he previously had (decent grenades, ability to pick them up, good amount of ammo, knowing when and where weapons spawn, etc) and made him choose between them.

Why should I have to pick abilities to tailor to my style of play when how I play should tailor to my style of play?

 

[Bregmann Roche]

You know if Aggro is free also?

negative. I'll PMs him.

 

[willow ve]

No, it's not.

Speaking of K/D. I can't get mine to stay on the upswing. I'll have like 6 games where I go +10, then I'll get dominated for 6. Guess TrueSkill(tm) is working.

Drop a lobby if you notice you're getting stomped. The longer you stay in a lobby the larger the accumulated party seems to get and the more strict the competetion seems to be (note: I really only play BTB). Backing out and finding a new game (especially using the "never join in progress trick") seems to reset the trueskill and allow the dongblain to continue.

 

[NullPointer]

(lots of good stuff)

After the initial global ordnance placement everything is randomized. But isn't it every 2 minutes a global ordnance drops in one of those locations, and it can be one of several baked in items? So I guess you can time it, but won't know the end result regardless, except for the perk that lets you know 5 seconds in advance.

As far as weapons despawning, its best for your sanity to just consider any weapons you drop when you die to be gone, or in the enemy's hands.

And one thing I'll say about this map pack being all BTB - the playlist got me and my buddies to actually try out some objective modes we had avoided until now. Extraction was a lot of fun.

Predictive systems benefit veteran players. Reactive systems benefit newer players.

I'd like more of my friends to play Halo with me, so I prefer reactive systems.

Accurate and succinct. Halo 4 in a nutshell. *applause*

 

[Digital Limit]

I like how all this effort is going into solving a problem that goes away after maybe two games on the same map

and its not like the other level ones that you went up against when you first got the game were timing weapon spawns lol

Ok, so we're mid-match in Zanzibar and Rockets aren't top mid. When do they respawn?

Be careful, you've played two games on Zanzibar, you should have already honed the ability to know when Rockets were picked up, marked the time on the in-game clock you probably don't even realize exists, and are preparing yourself for the respawn in 3 minutes, right? Right?

This is assuming you've ever stumbled on those top-mid Rockets before a veteran of the game grabbed them and killed you with them. But you were already rushing top mid for those Rock—erm, well, someone would have told you they're there.

Many great modern shooters don't benefit map knowledge the way Halo does. Counter-Strike, Call of Duty, Battlefield. Stepping into Halo, it's a huge step up to learn weapon spawn locations and times.

 

[Reagan's BR]

When is the patch for this game coming? You know, the one that makes the game half way decent.

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Without random ordnance, you'd be playing the same game as before, except your casual friends wouldn't have to ask you where Rockets spawn or why we're camping at this one building over here. They'd already be at that building fighting for Rockets because the game told them shit was going down. As well, you wouldn't have to do "map walk-throughs" or pay such attention to the clock.

I know, it feels good to have knowledge no one else has and kill them with it, but something as crucial as where and when Rockets spawn in a mode about getting the most kills? That a Halo game hasn't introduced that knowledge to the player directly before Halo 4 is surprising. It'd be a lot like playing King of the Hill without waypoints or an announcer saying "HILL MOVED".

You're right, now all I can tell people is "go do whatever you want, I have no fucking idea where any of the weapons are." That's a big difference from slayer in the pit, for example, where I can say "rockets spawn in this halway, sniper spawns under this tower, camo is here. Always." They wanted to change the system so good players don't have some kind of knowledge advantage over bad kids playing the game for the first time in their lives? Congratulations, now no one knows where shit is. Just spawn in with your plasma pistol, sticky nades and camo and go troll every vehicle on the map. Don't forget to use your perks accordingly! Classic halo.

 

[orznge]

It's fun to have a conversation with someone who has no respect or sincerity.

If you don't believe that anyone has ever decided against Halo because of the jarring skill gap of facing someone who knows the maps versus someone who doesn't, you're living in a lonely bubble. I know plenty of people, but I also leave the house.



Predictive systems benefit veteran players. Reactive systems benefit newer players.

I'd like more of my friends to play Halo with me, so I prefer reactive systems.

I am sorry that your friends are bad at/have poor taste in video games.

 

[Reagan's BR]

Wait are people in here actually defending horrible design decisions like Global Ordinance?

 

[Duji]

"For me, Halo: CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo Reach just didn't appeal to me. How was I supposed to find out where the weapons spawned? Furthermore, how was I supposed to remember? Even with skill-based matchmaking in place, the lowest rungs on the Halo ladder has accumulated a wealth of knowledge that I found to be an insurmountable barrier to entry.

Thankfully, when Microsoft handed Halo over to 343 Industries they took a hard look at the game's design and no longer will I be barred from playing the game because of Mountain Dew-swilling, Dorito munching loudmouthed 13 year olds who play the game 12 hours a day every day. Halo is back!"

- testimonial from back of the Halo 4 box about real issue that a real person actually had with the Halo series until the year 2012

I love you.

 

[Digital Limit]

After the initial global ordnance placement everything is randomized. But isn't it every 2 minutes a global ordnance drops in one of those locations, and it can be one of several baked in items? So I guess you can time it, but won't know the end result regardless, except for the perk that lets you know 5 seconds in advance.

As far as weapons despawning, its best for your sanity to just consider any weapons you drop when you die to be gone, or in the enemy's hands.

And one thing I'll say about this map pack being all BTB - the playlist got me and my buddies to actually try out some objective modes we had avoided until now. Extraction was a lot of fun.


Accurate and succinct. Halo 4 in a nutshell. *applause*

That was updated to 10 seconds, I believe. Drop Recon is pretty baller, now.

 

[TheOddOne]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. The hoops we have to jump through to understand what this system is doing are kinda crazy.

Speaking of that, why does the sniper at the team bases of Ragnarok keep respawning? Everything after the initial global ordnance drop around the map doesn’t respawn at all. After that it is just a wildcard draw on what global drop is going to happen. On other maps, such as Exile and Longbow, after the initial global ordnance drop the weapons don’t respawn. It’s all random after that.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Global Ordinance can leave forever.

Personal Ordinance is fun in Infinity gametypes.