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Halo |OT13|
- Thread starter kylej
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Digital Limit
Member
Learning where weapons spawn is an unnecessary, antiquated barrier to entry for new players. Learning specific weapon respawn times is an even sillier barrier. The fact that a game based around killing doesn't announce that a Rocket Launcher is available on the map let alone where it is seems poor to me.
he he. You're on my friends list.
like i said. I play SWAT almost exclusively, so most of the whining here falls on deaf ears.
but on the odd occasion i venture over into slayer, i do FAR better than I've ever done in a halo game before so something has changed.
i was never a great Halo player, but i was never poor either. Lag permitting (AU player) i could hold my own in 2 and 3. But i hot much better in Reach, and MUCH better again in 4. My play style hasn't changed, so something else has.
my assumption, is that the removal of power weapon whoring has played a big part. Maybe I'm wrong and someone more knowledgeable can tell me.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Haven is the only map I truly like. Abandon is okay, and the BTB maps would be okay if it weren't for all those other things I listed.
Senador is lending me a copy! Also, on a related HaloGAF generosity note, Fyrewulff sent me a huge package of Halo goodies to give away at a future LAN party! I'll post pics soon. Awesome stuff.
Pop
Member
Digital Limit
Member
I'm sorry Heckfu, I try to only cut down people who appear to be antagonistic. Par for the course in discussion with a few people here. Kyle acts a lot like juices and oranges: sarcastic and prickish, so I put my dick-hat on (mmm, dick-hat). I'm totally down for respectful discussion, much like what Tawp and I got to after a little hiccup.
That's awesome, you need to keep me up to date on where you are in the game when you get going. And just...power through it even if you hate it. The ending of the game is the most powerful in the series IMO.
I don't respond because I'm fairly certain he's trolling or just really really stupid.
"I personally enjoy the game "breaking" sandbox." - Digital Limit
Now that we've established that no weapon should have a different spawn time than another weapon because it is technically impossible for a videogame made in the year 2012 to communicate two separate facts to a human, let's talk about the next pressing issue: how will we rebalance the characteristics of each weapon so as to accommodate the new homogenized spawn times?
And he wants more of his "friends" to play the game with him!? Maybe he could grow some honor instead of abusing the game's mechanics.
The P of Poland
Member
That would be almost the only thing that would make me put serious time back into Halo again.
I would venture a guess that part of your improvement is simply due to the improved netcode coupled with the improved bandwidth throughout much of the regions that Halo is played regularly. You might have also gotten better (which is most likely true), but some of the new "skill" you've found could be attributed to better, more reliable connections.
Digital Limit
Member
We're all using the time-tested slippery slope argument now, too? Can we be less constructive?
These take-your-argument-and-turn-it-into-sarcasm posts are not constructive.
Digital Limit
Member
That's true, introducing a countdown leads to a lot of players sitting on a weapon spawn, and ultimately fighting over who gets the weapon. I suppose it's really not too different than what we have now, though. More people dying by falling ordnance, though. Great for new players!
go ahead and dignify that guy who I replied to with a "real" response and see what kind of intelligent discourse you two engage in lol
Digital Limit
Member
Why are those the only two options? Is it not possible to enjoy the AAs?
Related: you're being a prick, again. Stop.
NullPointer
Member
More like "I can enjoy the game Halo 4 actually is, not the one some members of HaloGAF wished it was".
It'd be good to be able to have different perspectives in here without being an ass about it.
Yeah, fantastic is maybe a bit hyperbolic. Personally though, I do feel that they are one of the more strongest aspects of the game. Sure, there are little annoyances here and there but they are not flow breaking (expect well Complex, still could be fixed to a certain extent by retooling the spawns). Enjoyable maps for me are those where there is a lot of map movement from players, for example Exile often ignites different ways in how people use the bases and sideways. There are also tons of really noticeable choke points, but enough space to avoid or counter those points too.
With the shooting being more important, Ordnance system being so prevalent and the overabundance of vehicles (well at least in BTB) much of the map design kind of gets forgotten in a way. Which is kind of sad, because everything gameplay wise tries to downplay great to decent map design. I think people would appreciate (and notice) the maps more if there were classic Halo setting.
Zoso Achilles
Member
Loadouts are a step forward, and I agree it is a great way to combat the "starting weapon" problem/debate that has raged on for the past three games. However, I wish loadouts were just for that: the weapons. These perks just don't fit in, and they've clearly influenced design and balance decisions greatly. We're arguing about ways the improve the ordnance system, but it won't happen due to the drop recon perk. Flinch is dumb, but they made a perk to reduce it so that has to stay. They change a mechanic and then add a perk or armor ability to answer that change, thus cementing it into the game. It's rock, paper scissors again, which has been discussed to death. I wish people didn't get to spawn with the plasma pistol or plasma nades, I wish people didn't have to equip a perk to pick up grenades or not run out of ammo. Starting weapon choice is great, the rest is not.
The ordnance system combined with the loadouts takes all weapons off of the map. I could have accepted ordnance pertaining to just the power weapons (it would still be bad) but then all other weapons were removed from the map since you can carry them in your loadout. You should have to go pick up a plasma pistol or stickies, there should be BR's, DMR's, Carbines, LR's etc. around the map for when ammo starts running scarce. This is a problem since guns despawn in 12 seconds (which is due to the personal ordnance system which only appears is like 2 gametypes yet the effect applies to the entire game.) People respond to this that there would have to be too many starting weapons on the map to accommodate all the choices for primary weapons, but that is not true. You spawn with your gun, sure, but when you completely run out of ammo do you just pass by the BR because you had a Carbine? Fuck no, you pick it up and continue to kill fools. This is a map design issue, back when maps had weapon sets. Bring whatever starting weapon you want off of spawn, but pick up a new one when you start getting low on ammo.
The changes 343 made are coupled, they are intertwined, they snowball and bring about more and more changes to answer the initial change. It's changed farther away from what I considered to make Halo gameplay so great while at the same time hindering the chance that it can ever be changed back.
Digital Limit
Member
NullPointer, Tawp and Havok seem to have no trouble having a real discussion about Halo 4's changes to the series.
Edit: My apologies to anyone who read (or reads, since it's quoted 100 times) my remark. I was mocking orznge, but we're classier than that here at GAF, and I misread him. I have nothing but respect for my homosexual brethren.
oh my
I can engage in constructive discourse perfectly well, as evidenced throughout the last however many Halo OTs. At the minimum, my sarcastic jokeposts are a lot more constructive than throwing down homophobic pejoratives in frustration.
You done did it now son!
And to voice my opinion, Reach might have been a better Halo game, but Halo 4 is better IMO. But one thing Reach has over 4 is the completion of the final product.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Welp, looks like its time to break out the noose, and baby oil again.
make fun all you like. But SWAT has been a top 3 playlist for some time now in both Reach and 4.
SWAT is great because it takes the speed if CoD, the gameplay of Halo, but removes all the bullshit and the clutter from both and makes it a completely level field.
NullPointer
Member
That really it. While I like loadouts, 343 has painted themselves into a corner with them, since, like you get at, what are the chances they will remove something that exists only as a justification for an end-game perk?
Pro playlists (no loadouts) seem like the only way to go to provide that level of gameplay. I'd do it if I was them though, and market it as high level play.
Well, damn. Self-immolation ahoy.
It's possible to enjoy them, sure. Binary Slayer is pretty fun and it entirely depends on the AAs. But to deny that they have major flaws in terms of map movement, pacing et cetera is flat out dumb.
Well...
Digital Limit
Member
I agree. It's like every change comes with a little shit on it.
If weapons wouldn't despawn quickly, we wouldn't have that ammo issue. The ammo perk would still be fine, too, because it gives you more Ordnance ammo, which is great. I'm still against having mid-level guns on the map. It's not necessary. You bring the guns you need and you grab guns off of dead dudes. If the mode doesn't have people encountering each other, there's always unlimited ammo (see: sniper playlist).
The issue of Plasma Pistol and Plasma Grenades on spawn is a trickier one. I think players should be able to spawn with the Plasma Pistol. It's another mid-level weapon that is practically only good against vehicles. Being able to spawn with both that and two Plasma Grenades, enough to destroy almost any vehicle, though? That's a bit much. It should be an either or, or maybe limit a player to only one plasma grenade. Also, if everyone had the Operator perk, it'd seem like less of a problem.
One light at the end of that tunnel right now is that Boltshot is so overpowered that people aren't running with PP much anymore, anyway
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, I've played it before. I liked it alright, but found it pretty underwhelming. I'm still looking forward to replaying it though.
The "not a Halo game" shit is hilarious. The core gameplay and gunplay, the foundation for any shooter including Halo, still plays like Halo. The gametypes still very much play like Halo. It still feels like Halo. It still for the most part flows like Halo MP does, at an accelerated and a bit more.. uncertain pace. A lot of the stuff they've added like personal ordnance and loadouts is in many ways evolutionary for Halo, it just hasn't been beta tested here. People would be bitching a lot less if the Boltshot was a little less powerful and the maps didn't skew towards DMR ranges.
Like I said, the hyperbole in this thread is baffling. People here really, deeply offended by Halo 4. The game has it's exorbitant amount of problems, but it still very damn well plays like Halo. This extends to the campaign as well.
Like I said, the hyperbole in this thread is baffling. People here really, deeply offended by Halo 4. The game has it's exorbitant amount of problems, but it still very damn well plays like Halo. This extends to the campaign as well.
The P of Poland
Member
It's one thing to not approve of homosexuality.
But you should know better than to go and say something like that, especially on here. Have a nice ban.
you could very well be right no doubt.
i obviously do way worse in the laggy games. Buy even in 2 and 3, in non laggy games i was just average at best.
maybe i have just become better over the years.
But either way, i personally have no issue with all the changes.
my gripes lie on the backend. No local search option, borked drop in drop out, borked kill cams, crappy netcode and the like.
also the focus on big maps is maddening. adrift and Haven are great slayer maps, but it would be nice to be able to actually want to play on others.
I'm just making fun of the way you communicate your love of SWAT. I like SWAT a lot too, I just like positioning in addition to it
squidhands
Member
I guess 343 felt the same way you do, and now we have the equivalent to hand-holding when it comes to finding out where the nearest power weapon is. Even as a fair to partly-crappy player, I never saw learning map locations and power weapon spawn timers as antiquated or something that even needed to be changed to such a degree as it has been. It added a level of depth to the game that people who played more seriously could use to their benefit at the expense of the uninitiated/unlearned. If there's anything artificial, it's the extra layers of perks, mods, and Armor Abilities that add further randomness to the game. I would much rather take the time to learn where and when a powerup spawned on a map than watching a killcam feed of some asshole with the camo AA and Stealth perk killing me from his favorite hiding spot because I didn't choose the right bullshit foil to best him with.
Having said all that, I don't believe I'm the type of player that 343 is courting with their version of Halo.
"Not approving" is better than saying that word? I know this isn't the place for this conversation but that sounds pretty rude to say in a community with gay and bisexual members.
Digital Limit
Member
Well, I didn't say they weren't flawed—they are. But I also enjoy them. They're another layer in the Halo sandbox. Most competitive players like to get as far away from the sandbox as possible, though (see: no vehicles). I dig the sandbox. It's fun to fuck around with a Warthog or an Elephant much like it's fun to see through walls, fly or be invisible. It's not as competitive and "breaks" things, but it has its place. I'm also everything that's wrong with Halo, though, so keep that in mind
I'd also love a more vanilla, competitive playlist with only Thruster Pack, too. 343 needs to give the other side more love. I just think we're in this really one or the other mindset.
Tashi didn't post in this OT did he?
xxjuicesxx
Member
I don't know how to say this but this is your opinion.
Halo in the past has been more Rock vs Rock and now its more Rock vs Paper vs Scissors.
Therefore the core isn't like Halo. It doesn't PLAY like halo, and its a real issue, because people take Halo very seriously.
Look at the #'s man. They are down. Because this isn't what Halo fans wanted. If you enjoy it thats fine, but I, along with anyone else have every right to complain about it.
Don't gimme this core argument either, I have to play the game with all the crazyness thats added and changed. Unless I want to play Slayer Pro, and even then I think some of the stuff is still in it.
Digital Limit
Member
Hah shit, I'm too many levels of internet deep. That was intended as mockery of something you'd say, but no one actually does that here, do they? You come off as that guy to me, so my apologies.
Frak me. Whelp, sorry guys! Being pretty gay myself, it'd be silly to mean that. I suppose it's too late. Make it painless, gentle overlords.
Yeah, I know and I would play SWAT with you anytime lol !
Nah I think you just got better over the years, and I don't see how power weapons are now less of a problem, everytime I play something Infinity related or Dominion it seems like everyone has a power weapon, of course this is a different thing as global ordnance, but you know what I mean.
I don't even have a problem with waypoints over the weapons, I could let this slide, but the weapon set up shouldn't be random and the time neither. I have seen games where one team just got the win because a binary rifle spawned near their base.
I have to say many of my angry posts about Halo 4 are also probably influenced by jelousy that someone can still enjoy it and I don't, I really would love to like it and some stuff in Halo 4 is amazing.
Holy shit you're right.
I find it hilarious that people think they have to use an enhanced vocabulary to sound smart or be taken seriously. Who actually uses "pejorative" instead of "insult" or "discourse" instead of "discussion" in conversational language? You're not proving anything by using SAT words.
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