Indubitably.
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Halo |OT13|
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Indubitably.
The P of Poland
Member
It's not rude at all. It's my right in a free country, which America still is, unless something's changed. It's their right to live that lifestyle. It's my right to disapprove. You cannot demand that I approve of someone else's behavior. I don't stop them, I don't insult them. Aren't you guys supposed to be the ones that insist that everyone be free to live their lives and practice their beliefs as they choose? Why does that only apply to the lifestyles you prefer?
That is a pretty bad mockery of me considering I am not bigoted towards any gender, sexual orientation, etc
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
Had a quick look and didnt' see it.
Kotaku article for Halo 4 concept artist Thomas Scholes. He is now allowed to share his work post game release. Quoted the images due to sizes and keeping things smaller here.
Kotaku article for Halo 4 concept artist Thomas Scholes. He is now allowed to share his work post game release. Quoted the images due to sizes and keeping things smaller here.
Just so you know, your 1st Amendment rights do not apply here.
In fact, you have no rights here. Play nice.
Hydranockz
Member
Who else knew the internet is actually just a country and that country is really America?
ElRenoRaven
Member
You know every time I see concept art for this game it makes me sad. The concept art is so amazing at capturing Halo's feel. It's colorful, mysterious, etc. Then the game comes out and it's so bland.
Well, for starters I'm straight.
as i said, maybe i still love the mp because i play SWAT, which is my favourite multiplayer gaming anywhere.
im very simple. Give me the same gun as everyone else, don't let us be able to see each other on radar, and lets see who comes out on top.
Its just so pure. Its as old school as you can get.
Pop
Member
-Wheres my flag drop
-Auto-pickup whaa
-no skill ranks
-HUGE waypoint over my head
-custom options decreased and no options to remove sprint or created a classic feel
-random ordnance
-personal weapon drops
-perks
Probably missing a ton more. This doesn't feel like Halo.
Digital Limit
Member
Using a word doesn't imply a stance. Words exist in many contexts. Mine was one mocking you, and you remind me of Xbox Live kids, so here we are. It was inappropriate though, and I'm sorry. Gotta keep it clean on GAF.
The P of Poland
Member
That's enlightening.
Eh, it was one American talking to another American. I like how you're implying that discourse is not free in your country.
Anyway, change of subject. Halo. Or whatever game we've moved onto.
xxjuicesxx
Member
None of you get laid so your sexual orientation is irrelevant.
BURNZZZZ.
In respect to the flag indicator, I really dont like it its a total casual aid. I had flag taking it back to base I was going though that ground level tunnel on Harvest on the right side near the sides where warthogs would drive around (I didnt take middle). An enemy unknown to me was up on top where there is a little gapped bridge. Before I was even in viewing distance of him he had landed a nade at my feet at the exit of the tunnel where the wall ends and he proceeded to headshot and finish me off. The fact that I didn't have an indicator to see him means he had a complete advantage. It was one of the most lame moments I experienced, glad someone brought it up as it shook my memory from last night.
Element should totally be removed from Halo it is just a crutch casuals rely on instead of visualization and teammate communication. It saddens me to even think it made it past an idea in the rooms Halo was developed. As a funny sidenote I actually predicted this exact thing in a post months ago when I heard about it and Frankie said dont worry...
BURNZZZZ.
In respect to the flag indicator, I really dont like it its a total casual aid. I had flag taking it back to base I was going though that ground level tunnel on Harvest on the right side near the sides where warthogs would drive around (I didnt take middle). An enemy unknown to me was up on top where there is a little gapped bridge. Before I was even in viewing distance of him he had landed a nade at my feet at the exit of the tunnel where the wall ends and he proceeded to headshot and finish me off. The fact that I didn't have an indicator to see him means he had a complete advantage. It was one of the most lame moments I experienced, glad someone brought it up as it shook my memory from last night.
Element should totally be removed from Halo it is just a crutch casuals rely on instead of visualization and teammate communication. It saddens me to even think it made it past an idea in the rooms Halo was developed. As a funny sidenote I actually predicted this exact thing in a post months ago when I heard about it and Frankie said dont worry...
YourExWife
Member
Hydranockz
Member
I just about break even on here. I'm lucky to have 343.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I feel it is very much Halo at its core, sure a 343i version but still very much Halo...let us have a look at things.
Campaign:
John in cryo (direct Halo 3 story continuation)
Cortana present
Halo books tie in many ways
Covenant still in game
BR & DMR & pistol etc return, as well as Covie weapons too
Halo in game
Forerunners in game, environments, weapons, enemies etc
Halsey in prologue
More spartans and UNSC
Movement, strafe, controls etc
Space opera style in scale and mystery
Campaign verdict = Very much Halo, this is a fact.
Halo was never Rock vs. Rock alone, it has always been Rock, Paper & Scissors. Since Halo 3 & Reach it has become more Rock, Paper, Scissors, Dynamite. Now with Halo 4 it is more the evolution of Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard & Spock.
Now to shorten this mutliplayer and spartan ops have much of the same traits and marry up to the existing Halo games very well. The fact is each aspect of Halo 4 is very much Halo in nature, just because you don't like something doesn't make it not Halo.
You are also having blinders on mate with regards to the golden triangle, look at Halo 3 and its equipment. That's the first iteration of AA's prior to Reach, then Reach went full-AA and Halo 4 iterates to bring more balance and less impact on gameplay. Sure there are more variables but you are not forced to play these modes. You have CTF where things are toned down, Slayer Pro where things are stripped even more heavily and other gametypes like Flood & Griball. Over time the playlists will work out better for your preferred style mate.
May I suggest taking a look at the evolution of Rock, Paper & Scissors as the analogy is very fitting still for the the change throughout all Halo games. Especially the last section "Additional Weapons". I think it's a great reflection of community division, national trends, balancing issues and subjectivity. Overall Halo 4 is very much Halo, with your Rock vs. Rock you don't even have a single game to reference that and even if you put Halo CE & 2 together you're still inaccurate about 3, Reach & Halo 4.
Garrett 2U
Member
Are you implying that heterosexual people are bigots?
Is this how you introduce yourself to all the boys, Hecky? xoxo
P.S. don't be bigots y'all that shit ain't cute, and it ain't funny. Ain't nobody got time for that.
Zoso Achilles
Member
I agree that the grenade selection in loadouts is a bigger offender than secondary weapons. But of course, there is a perk tied to starting grenades so... It's just that the functional differences among the pistol, PP and boltshot are so vast that I don't like the choice of them to be in loadouts. PP is a vehicle killer, that's it purpose. Boltshot could have worked if it wasn't so broken (read:crazy effective.)
I agree with the part about to mid-tier weapons, partly because there aren't any anymore. Everything that is currently in the ordnance system can stay that way as powerful weapons worth picking up. I just like there being weapons on the map again, the primaries and pistols so you can make decisions on the go rather than almost exclusively in the loadout menu.
NullPointer
Member
This might be the best thing I've read in a Halo thread.
Good points, but one BIG difference. You still had to know maps and placements in regards to the equipment.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
NullPointer
Member
Which 343 probably determined was the #1 barrier to entry for multiplayer.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
One change like this is more about playlists and settings rather than being Halo or not. If 343i would cater a little more in Slayer Pro and maybe one other playlist as well for smaller symmetrical maps beyond Forged ones and allow some settings tweaks for no sprint, no instant respawn and the weapons/spawns then they have this niche covered indeed.
On the map spawn alienates casual players, players that don't have timers next to them and also limits such power weapons to more solo power players which in turn leads to lopsided games that no one enjoys. Now the indicators, timers and all that are visible to everyone with the global ordnance drops, weapon indicators and you can clearly see when someone calls in personal ordnance as well. Sure it could use tweaking but it's working with more positives then negatives and avoids spawn trapping, spawn camping, weapon spawn farming, weapon spawn withholding (low ammo holding) etc etc.
I agree for the "classic Slayer Pro" some of these elements should be closer to Halo 2 for that competitive edge. Hopefully the next TU will bring those into those playlists where they belong.
Digital Limit
Member
I wish you wouldn't do this. Sarcastic response and a straw man.
I never asked for homogeneous weapon spawn times. I said spawn times should be communicated to the player, preferably before the weapon spawns.
Let me be clear: the classic Halo system is great. I love it. But it's something I don't mind digging into.
My less try-hard friends aren't fighting over power weapons, they're being killed by them, and then they're putting the game down because it was disappointing enough to lose an even battle, let alone one where you're being demolished by explosives you're now too jaded to care to understand.
A waypoint on a Rocket Launcher is a great solution to this, and 343 brought that to the table. I just wish it also was there warning players of another Rocket Launcher dropping in advance without a perk. It'd direct flow much in the way King of the Hill markers do. If it's not in advance, weapon spawns need to be random to give players a shot at fighting over a weapon, rather than having veterans sit on weapons, eating the waypoint before the new player even gets the chance to benefit from its inclusion.
The irony in this is that the actual Rock, Paper, Scissors "core" element of Halo is actually still very present and possibly as good as it's ever been in 4.
You're criticizing what I've summarized into the uncertainty and accelerated aspects of the game. A lot has changed because it had to have changed, or else numbers would have been even lower than they are now. I'm not denying there are aspects that are not Halo-like, I'm saying it still feels more like Halo than otherwise.
It's nowhere near perfect right now, but I think they can at least make something decent out of it over time, stuff that I expect once the majority of bugs are fixed. And of course, there is stuff hard coded into the design that probably will never be fixed because they're attached to ideologies 343 brought to the table. I can see why people are giving up hope right now, but I still think it's a bit early for the verdict to be out on the future of this game. The most worrying bit is 343s lack of acknowledgement though, and half of them being on vacation, leading shit like the File Browser to remain completely in limbo.
xxjuicesxx
Member
H1 - Pistol vs Pistol
H2 - BR vs BR
H3 - BR vs BR
Reach DMR vs DMR
H4 - Wut?
Theres other stuff but in the past further back Halo games you had no AA, no perk, so when you spawned you were on equal footing besides maybe a weapon, which is why map control was so essential. Fighting over map control so you could get the next weapon drops was Halo. Pushing a team into their base and controlling them. Thats pretty rock vs rock to me.
H4 is none of that. Its not the Halo I watched on the mainstage played for years, its not the Halo I played with my friends at LAN's...
So respectfully I agree to disagree.
Campaign, sure, I don't really care I played half of it and it was boring. I guess thats like Halo. Orange buttons. I concede on this point.
Thats your opinion man, H2 had high #'s H3 had high #'s, Reach is where the population was lost and that was the Halo with the most additional elements (before H4 - which also happens to have low #'s). The idea that evolving Halo is what is keeping the people who are still on Halo is just that, simply an idea, its not factual or true or proveable in anyway. My opinion is more people would continue to play Halo if you evolved Halo in a different direction other than copying CoD's elements.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I see your point and agree there should be a playlist with these settings in it. I'm not against you as they are valid points. I disagree that ALL Halo 4 has to be like the old classic settings, it does NOT.
CE, 2 & 3 to an extent had far less competition and FPS on console was taking dominance for online play. Different era mate, Halo will never return to that level of population dominance. I also still disagree with watching the peak population as some measure of players or games played per day, they are not the same statistics. Halo is still number 2 on Major Nelson charts, enough said.
I have no issue with Halo being #2, that's an achievement to be proud of. I would also like the feel of 2 flag games on The Pit and 1 flag on High Ground to return to matchmaking. I enjoy those more than the Halo 4 formula for sure but the general masses seem to not agree with us niche players. You being classic slayer and me being classic objective.
It does fit so very well as an metaphor for the Halo games evolution.
The P of Poland
Member
Devo lives in Oregon? I just saw something about a mall shooting there on Yahoo.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
I'm bored
A nice diagram but I still struggle to see the iteration or comparison between assault and extraction. I just don't get it and no way does extraction give me any feelings or skill sets like what I used when playing assault. No vehicle bomb rushes, no stealth bomb runs, no bomb returning, no bomb beat downs, no team escorting the bomb.
Extraction is all fixed points and so very similar to dominion it pains me, the assault lover.
I Second the Motion and call for a vote.
Halo 3 (without equipment) was the pinnacle for Halo popularity and mass appeal. I drove to a Columbus MLG event, spent the night, drank far too much free Dr. Pepper and had a blast being one of the oldest people there that wasn't a parent. After Halo 3 the series has progressively moved away from what differentiated it from other shooters on the market. You could make the argument that "this is where the shooter market has been heading" or "they had to compete with COD" - but the numbers are pretty clear.
H3 was the king of Xbox Live and the king of the Halo games in terms of popularity and longevity of brand. Something that happened after H3 changed this formula and many players have moved on...
The evolution of Halo in a nutshell.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Is that art everyone is posting available in big sizes for wallpapers?
Perhaps, but until there is some sort of solid framework of radical changes in a different direction you can suggest to dethrone CoD, the majority of the CoD-like stuff they've added seems to be to try and attract and share that audience, to at the very least survive in the increasingly harsh market today. I really can't think of what they could have done otherwise to sustain the franchise and it's sales numbers.
Just making another Halo game wouldn't be enough, or Halo 4 would have fallen flat as that the playerbase that shifts from new FPS to new FPS would not have bothered with Halo 4 in the first place. A lot of what made those numbers so high was the fact that Halo was the big boy, maybe the only big boy in town at the time, and those numbers accounted for more than just the most dedicated, as not many alternative options existed back then. A completely different market exists today, and perhaps the #s being so low right now are just the most accurate ones we have ever had of those most dedicated.
Nope. The art I posted earlier and the one re-posted just now is in the highest res available.
ASAIK no. did google reverge image searches and found no other sources
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I disagree entirely with the bold, but we arrive at generally the same conclusions. I valued fixed ordnance spawns because 1) it enabled strategies to counter the opposing team and 2) because maps could be designed to have specific points where ordnance contests would take place and they were interesting mini-objectives during the game.
To point 1): when your team or down, and/or the other team is rampaging with vehicles, in past Halo games the winning strategy was to seek out and obtain positions and ordnance to counter. Say, rockets or lasers or snipers or missile pods, etc. With Halo 4 the strategy is to hope for the best.
To point 2): I enjoyed the cadence of contesting weapon locations. Often they were placed in locations where fun skirmishes would happen, the outcome of which could tip the scales of the match or enable a comeback. I've had tons of close games that were decided because we were able to win one of those battles. (When designing maps in Forge, I'd be thinking about weapon placement as I designed them.) To make a rough analogy, those games are like making a clutch shot or defensive play as time runs out. With Halo 4 those games can be won because a hoop spawned next to the right player. It's not fun, and sucks so much strategy from the match.
That said, I would not object to fixed ordnance spawns with waypoints for players to follow. I'd even be fine with a countdown as you suggested (though I'd go for 5 seconds not 15, but that's a quibble). I think that would strike a fair balance between informing new players where the critical ordanance si on the map and helping to let them know when it's incoming, while still preserving the tug of war style battles for ordnance.
I remain flummoxed at the way global ordnance was implemented.
Agree.
NullPointer
Member
My formula for making a modern competitive FPS with legs: Training modes (certification missions for each gametype), map overview including weapon spawns/timing and any out-of-band information displayed while loading the match, mercenaries playlists, all FREE map packs to keep the community whole, renovated matchmaking/game browser that doesn't funnel the community into a handful of lists, a decent pre-release beta with time to incorporate data and feedback and fixes, and all community features available day 1.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
If you narrow you field of view to just MLG your statement is true but the default Halo 3 (with equipment) far exceeded just the MLG or hardcore playlists (without equipment).
If you take the matchmaking playlists and population numbers then "default Halo 3 (with equipment)" was always the number one.
You can't just bend your perspective for your debate point, it's not based in reality. I do agree for MLG specifically that Halo 3 (no equip.) was the most popular. Perhaps now it is time MLG embraced more of the sandbox for the viewing public? Imagine pros doing warthog runs with a flag tied 4 caps to 4 caps with 30 seconds left.
I know that's what I love about Halo and I've never watched MLG due to not wanting to watch spawn trapping or BR vs. BR for 15 mins straight.
You could request it from the artist's blog directly...
Blog 1
Blog 2
Jack Scofield
Member
The worst part about personal ordinance is how it allows a camping team to remain entrenched in one position. Hell, it oftentimes encourages this behavior.
"Trying to take the middle area on Vortex? HA, good luck getting past the rockets, Incineration Cannons, Fuel Rods, and Binary Rifles the other team is holding. Here, take this Needler."
"Trying to take the middle area on Vortex? HA, good luck getting past the rockets, Incineration Cannons, Fuel Rods, and Binary Rifles the other team is holding. Here, take this Needler."
The Lamonster
Member
I endorse this message.
so much of your post is just twisted to suit your agenda it isn't funny.
you talk about the drop in numbers from Reach on.
modern warfare released in 2007 with Halo 3. So technically Halo 3 is to blame for "allowing" CoD to take the players away.
What competition did Halo 2 have? Dumb argument.
also, that first section pistol vs pistol etc. What does that all even mean? Reach had loadouts and 3 had equipment soooooo....?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Ah! Much appreciated.
Primary reason why I stopped playing.
NullPointer
Member
lol. When I do curse the ordnance Gods, it is because of exactly this.
I'm kind of torn on that at the moment. Maybe after I could actually play it.
Maybe I'll end up considering it more Territories than Assault.
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