• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT15| Beta-tested, GAF approved

D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
Ohh I forgot to say- 343/MS should upload the maps early but without the license all the time! When I went to download them this morning it started at 97% which was a pretty nice surprise.

Domino Theory said:
What do you guys think of the newest DLC so far? I won't be able to play until tonight, but I'm curious.

These maps kind of snuck up on us, to be honest. We didn't hear anything about them then there's a live stream yesterday and now they're out today so I haven't seen or heard enough from them to gauge my opinion yet.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I agree, they did sneak up out of nowhere..kinda weird actually, haha. And as for the maps? They are really good, CA/343 did a great job with them and it feels like they were listening to fans while making them.*

*They still could use a little more in the art department other than the glorious Skyboxes.
 
G

Gordon

Member
Population is low in non-DLC playlists, new maps look glorious, and I'm 400 MSP shy of joining the party.

foreveralone.jpg
 
C

Computron

Member
HTupolev said:
This confuses me about plenty of areas in Halo 4. They decide to go with a post-process AA technique... and then designed their visuals to use a whole bunch of stuff that post-process AA is absolutely worthless against (and in some cases seems to actually exacerbate). But then with all the nonsensical screen-space godrays dancing about your screen all the time, when you finally come across those bloom-laden aliasing thin lines, it winds up seeming par for the Halo 4 course; yep, more bright hazy splotches dancing chaotically across my television!

It's almost sort of funny that Reach is the game that went with a supersampling-esque technique that could actually deal with this stuff, when it probably needs it less than any other 360 Halo. Not that cheap TAA implimentations would help with the shimmering that occurs in motion, anyway.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the fact that they chose to forgo motion blur (aka, temporal anti-aliasing) in Halo 4, in favor of those other effects. I would rather have that than screenspace godrays or FXAA since motion blur would anti alias everything that's in motion, and not just the jaggies that their edge detection algorithm can detect. Not to mention the perceptive smoothness that motion blur gives you.

Reach's AA was definately interesting, as you mentioned, since it AA'ed practically everything you could throw at it all the same, even alpha-tested foliage. Sure, it had some ghosting even after they suposedly 'fixed' it, but it really wasn't noticable under the motion blur. Halo 3 had some pretty sweet motion blur as well.
 
MrGreencastle

MrGreencastle

Member
Demoncarnotaur said:
Ohh I forgot to say- 343/MS should upload the maps early but without the license all the time! When I went to download them this morning it started at 97% which was a pretty nice surprise.
Click to expand...

Always wondered why Xbox didn't preload like Steam does. Hopefully that becomes a thing next gen. It's super convenient if you're into day 1 digital downloads.

--

Also, even though I was playing horribly and I still have ill feelings toward Infinity Slayer, the maps are really damn good. I love all three of them.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
BlueScrote said:
I don't know what's happened, but I have had some terrible games the last couple of days. I don't know if it's the switching between doubles/throwdown settings and inifinity settings or what but I can barely break even.
Click to expand...

Check your TV settings. Seriously. My game mode switched itself off on the upstairs TV and it took me two weeks to realize I didn't suck extra hard upstairs.
lybertyboy said:
On now. Hop on.
Click to expand...

I am gong in. Gimme five mins and inv pls.
 
L

lybertyboy

Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
Stinkles said:
Check your TV settings. Seriously. My game mode switched itself off on the upstairs TV and it took me two weeks to realize I didn't suck extra hard upstairs.


I am gong in. Gimme five mins and inv pls.
Click to expand...

Invited and waiting...
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
strx said:
I don't think anyone was questioning the DMR's effectiveness at close range against automatics.
Click to expand...

That's not solely what I meant, but more having to do with proper map layouts for various encounters. If our map selection was at least this varied since launch, I doubt as many people would be complaining about the DMR's dominance in MP.

Stinkles said:
Check your TV settings. Seriously. My game mode switched itself off on the upstairs TV and it took me two weeks to realize I didn't suck extra hard upstairs.

I am gong in. Gimme five mins and inv pls.
Click to expand...

lybertyboy said:
Invited and waiting...
Click to expand...

GT is UNKNOWN iXi, inv when ready <4
 
S

Sr Kitsune

Member
strx said:
Since I had attempted to download the map pack when it popped up last week, I already had it 99% downloaded and it finished in seconds.
Click to expand...

That's kinda cool. It would have been awesome if they have let everybody with season pass do that.

(Do it with Castle Map pack)

New maps are awesome. Nothing like the Crimson map pack. Timed ordnance make it feel a little less chaotic, and yet at the same time, it lets people notice how often weapons are dropped in a match in Halo 4.

Hoping the next map pack keeps the quality. :)
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
Anyone have an open party with room?

Also, this reminded me of a Promethean Knight:

tumblr_me30aaJEcr1qcwhkeo2_400.gif


From here.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
Computron said:
Not to mention the fact that they chose to forgo motion blur (aka, temporal anti-aliasing) in Halo 4, in favor of those other effects. I would rather have that than screenspace godrays or FXAA since motion blur would anti alias everything that's in motion, and not just the jaggies that their edge detection algorithm can detect. Not to mention the smoothness that motion blur gives you.
Click to expand...
TAA is not about antialiasing objects in motion, but rather using tiny offsets from one frame to the next to supersample on objects whose position is known from one frame to the next. In simple cases, this means objects that aren't moving, and when the camera isn't moving either; otherwise you have to reproject pixels to get the supersampling effect. And if you can't reproject the pixels properly, it's best to just turn the TAA blending off (which Reach tries to do, but sometimes fails at) for those moving pixels to avoid ghosting.
The way it successfully supersamples is that each frame is offset from the one before by a subpixel (half-pixel, in Reach's case) amount. Blend each frame with the frame before it, and you've basically got 2x supersampling... for free.

According to Chris Tchou, the motion blur and TAA systems in Reach do use the same algorithm for detecting pixel motion. But they're different systems, for entirely different purposes.
In theory, if you rendered a game with like 100 frames in between each displayed frame, and blended those hundred frames into a single output frame, you'd probably get high-quality motion blur (since you're basically faking what cameras do continuously). But if you just combined frames at gaps of their framerate (i.e. 1/30th of a second intervals for 1/30th of a second video), what you get wouldn't remotely resemble motion blur as the temporal jumps are just way too high, but rather awful ghosting.

This whole bunch of stuff is why Reach has extremely good IQ when you're standing still, but when you start rotating slowly it has the jaggies you'd expect from raw 1152x720 video.
 
T

TCKaos

Member
David and Frankie need to stream their shenanigans. For whatever reason I imagine the two of you playing and bumbling about in a lovable manner like wacky college roommates. If you do it you should record both a standard and laugh track version, so we can test it with the focus groups.
 
C

Computron

Member
HTupolev said:
TAA is not about antialiasing objects in motion, but rather using tiny offsets from one frame to the next to supersample on objects whose position is known from one frame to the next. In simple cases, this means objects that aren't moving, and when the camera isn't moving either; otherwise you have to reproject pixels to get the supersampling effect. And if you can't reproject the pixels properly, it's best to just turn the TAA blending off (which Reach tries to do, but sometimes fails at) for those moving pixels to avoid ghosting.
The way it successfully supersamples is that each frame is offset from the one before by a subpixel (half-pixel, in Reach's case) amount. Blend each frame with the frame before it, and you've basically got 2x supersampling... for free.

According to Chris Tchou, the motion blur and TAA systems in Reach do use the same algorithm for detecting pixel motion. But they're different systems, for entirely different purposes.
In theory, if you rendered a game with like 100 frames in between each displayed frame, and blended those hundred frames into a single output frame, you'd probably get high-quality motion blur (since you're basically faking what cameras do continuously). But if you just combined frames at gaps of their framerate (i.e. 1/30th of a second intervals for 1/30th of a second video), what you get wouldn't remotely resemble motion blur as the temporal jumps are just way too high, but rather awful ghosting.

This whole bunch of stuff is why Reach has extremely good IQ when you're standing still, but when you start rotating slowly it has the jaggies you'd expect from raw 1152x720 video.
Click to expand...


Nah man, I am well aware of the TAA method. Practically the same system was used in Crysis 2 IIRC.

My point was that Halo Reach had Motion Blur, in addition to an amazing TAA (when not in motion), which was also augmented by the motion blur. (Motion Blur is antialiasing of the temporal domain, rather than the spacial, which is I think where the confusion arises in the context of this conversation) I believe the reason given/extrapolated for the lack of Motion Blur in Halo 4 was the trade-off toward FXAA. I am saying that I would prefer having TAA -- and like you mentioned, the benefits of the SSAA-like still-shots -- in addition to Motion Blur, as in Reach, instead of just the FXAA that is present in Halo 4. The downsides of TAA in motion where mostly invisible behind the motion blur and the game was a lot smoother because of it.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
Computron said:
Nah man, I am well aware of the TAA method
Click to expand...
>>"motion blur (aka, temporal anti-aliasing)"

You can't blame me for misreading you :)

I believe the reason given/extrapolated for the lack of Motion Blur in Halo 4 was the trade of toward FXAA.
Click to expand...
Maybe. Though I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere decided that it just wasn't helpful to have the motion blur. I think Halo 3/Reach's implimentations look really interesting, but when I play, they don't really make the gunplay itself feel any smoother to me. If anything, they make things feel gummy when I notice them. :/
 
C

Computron

Member
HTupolev said:
>>"motion blur (aka, temporal anti-aliasing)"

You can't blame me for misreading you :)


Maybe. Though I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere decided that it just wasn't helpful to have the motion blur. I think Halo 3/Reach's implimentations look really interesting, but when I play, they don't really make the gunplay itself feel any smoother to me. If anything, they make things feel gummy when I notice them. :/
Click to expand...

AKA - 'Also Known As'. Emphasis on Also.

It was my bad for acronymizing (is that a word?), sorry...

Good motion blur can go a long way toward making 30fps games feel smoother for much cheaper thatn actually targeting 60fps. check out what they did on force unleashed and the research they've been doing on interpolating up to 60fps in racing games. I posted some of this earlier on HaloGAF, I can dig it up if you want.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Apparently Halo 3 and Reach are also 10$.

edit: can confirm Halo 3 is 10$

edit: and yeah, Wars is still at 30$. Hopefully it goes to 10$ too.
 
T

TheOhrenberger

Banned
I said it once a few pages back and I'll say it again: these maps are friggin' awesome!

Seriously, I haven't had this much fun with Halo 4 since launch day/week. I've never played a map pack which brought so much life back into a game. These maps are so, so good and exactly what Halo 4 needed! And by the looks of it, I'm not the only one who likes these maps. It's good to see that just about everyone is enjoying them.
 
D

DeadNames

Banned
TheOhrenberger said:
I said it once a few pages back and I'll say it again: these maps are friggin' awesome!

Seriously, I haven't had this much fun with Halo 4 since launch day/week. I've never played a map pack which brought so much life back into a game. These maps are so, so good and exactly what Halo 4 needed! And by the looks of it, I'm not the only one who likes these maps. It's good to see that just about everyone is enjoying them.
Click to expand...

Agreed. landfall is one of my favorite asymmetrical maps in the series. Monolith is also pretty good. Haven't really played skyline.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
Computron said:
AKA - 'Also Known As'. Emphasis on Also.

It was my bad for acronymizing (is that a word?), sorry...
Click to expand...

Ooooh I see what's happening. In the context of Reach, I was thinking TAA as the temporal supersampling that Reach uses. You were thinking TAA as antialiasing temporal rather than spatial artifacts. And when you throw both at the same discussion...

...Now I feel weird, because I've lectured people before on how calling motion blur "temporal anti-aliasing" is entirely valid.
 
S

Sai-kun

Banned
good games heck/ram/nutter/frankie/david. Even FFA is somehow more fun when you're not going in alone.

shoutout to greenskull for giving me 3 of my airsassinations and now i only need 3 more of the majestic achievements
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Halo Infinite Firefight Announced - December 5th
News 2
98
8K
twilo99 replied
  • Locked
Jason Schreier: The Microsoft Studio Behind Halo Franchise 343 Is All But Starting From Scratch
Opinion Game Dev
6
2K
Thebonehead replied
Bloomberg: The Microsoft Studio Behind Halo Franchise Is All But Starting From Scratch (Unreal Engine Switch Confirmed?)
2 3
148
12K
IbizaPocholo replied
Challenger Games (illang,second wave) closing
1
707
IAmRei replied
Introducing Steam Families
Platform 2 3
144
9K
Robot Carnival replied
Top Bottom