• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT16| Oh Bungie, Where Art Thou?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Pop

Member
Oh come the fuck on :(

Tunavi/Rev3rb/other Texan gaffers, you guys aren't close to this, right? Apparently toxic fumes are spreading

I'm about 30 miles away from there.

They evacuated the town. They aren't even allowed to put out the fire. Terrible bros :(
 

IHaveIce

Banned
I don't think the weapon balancing makes sense lile how they say it.

4Sk BR sounds good but a lower ROF is terrible.
Buffing the automatic weapons is not needed they are strong enough and buffing the vehicles with damage is even more questionable.

They have to adjust aim assist and auto aim for more stuff, and god damn have to be bold enough to take stuff out of loudouts
 
I finally managed to get a super high res ver of the Halo Reach ranks

92649255.png
 

Your thoughts pretty much sum up my philosophies and what I'm getting at with Halo 4 1-sided too. We have similar opinions but I enjoyed Valhalla or The Pit with one flag or one bomb very much. I agree tailored maps like zanzibar or burial mounds or relic etc are far better for one sided but the Halo 4 maps can easily accommodate 1 flag too.

Having 1-sided OBJ now in Halo 4 to me would be a better experience than what we play now in CTF, which is mostly 2 flag asymmetrical on larger maps than previous titles. Realistically apart from Forge maps we're not getting any new developer made maps so we need to work with what we have.

Further with full teams/parties vs. randoms 1 sided games help force the teamwork and create a better experience. Rounds also alleviate OBJ holding for 15 minutes straight while providing more structured engagements.

Here are some quick ideas for 1-sided flag and perhaps some neutral flag too:

ABANDON: The one flag could be at either location marked. The top base position would most likely become fast captures once the flag was taken but make for solid defence to take the flag in the first place. The open ended flag position would also make a great defensive setup but most likely result in easy grabs with harder run progress for the middle portion of the run with a relatively easy cap at the end via side routes or lift to capture point. No good for anything neutral.

EXILE: Either base could be the flag location but I choose the blue base for the flag location because for me or my regular team in CTF or previous Halo OBJ that is just too easy to capture. Red base offers a solid defensive setup but once the flag is taken to mid the game is pretty much over. I think the open ground in front of blue base serves as a "force teamwork" location both for offence and defense more than the blue base. No good for neutral.

LONGBOW: Both blue and red bases for Longbow suffice in one sided OBJ. Neutral doesn't look too great at Arch but could be placed at Trails as well. Overall this map would play great as 1-sided and have plenty of room.

MELTDOWN: The top and bottom aspects of this map would create interesting "force teamwork" for flag runs. Neutral could be interesting on the Light Bridge and is about equal in distance and cover usage etc. Overall both red and blue could be used for 1-flag but I feel the Fire Valley open area would create issue in taking the flag successfully for runs.

VORTEX: Easily red base for the flag position for defensive openers and plenty of paths and opportunity for runs/counters. No good for neutral.

COMPLEX: I find this flag location perfect for defense and forcing teamwork to steal a flag and get a good run going. The open areas at Silo & Modem create opportunities for ranged flag kills and there is plenty of vertical play over flag run paths too. Would work well with a variety of AA's in 1-flag. IMO not suited for neutral play.

ADRIFT: Nothing wrong with going at a neutral flag in lower mid. Hard to get up to the capping levels and creates a rush for flag or sword in the opening. Again I personally would play one-sided symmetrical here but I didn't mark it as I'm out of time for today.
 

Omni

Member

Seibmoz

Member
Off Topic but just came from a screening of Oblivion, great Sci-Fi flim. Movie soundtrack reminded a lot of the Mass Effect series. So in other words...

GO SEE THIS MOVIE
 

Obscured

Member
That is pretty cool that they are explaining how they are going about the weapon tweaks. It is amazing how many times it is reiterated that it is not final, but I'm sure that is what has to be done, otherwise you would have people that think it was thrown in 'rushed' and 'without any thought' when that is clearly not the case.

I still think a beta playlist would be a nice extension of that process.
 

Nebula

Member
Not read the bulletin yet and I have a question
maybe 2
.

Is this universal or just a few playlists? Will it be Reach all over again?
 

Gui_PT

Member
Hey guys do you remember when I kept asking about theater mode before Halo 4 came out and then one day I wuz like "Well if no one from 343 comments on this, I can only assume it will have no new features or will have less features like from Halo 3 to Reach", and you guise wuz like "What are you talking about?" or "Certainly you are joking"?

Of course you don't remember.


Well BAM.






BAM!!!
 
Not read the bulletin yet and I have a question
maybe 2
.

Is this universal or just a few playlists? Will it be Reach all over again?

All the changes will be in a playlists called "Team Super Hardcore". It will be at the bottom of the playlists menu and if it doesn't have more players daily than Infinity Slayer, then it will be clear that the changes are not what the community wants.
 

Omni

Member
It still bothers me that theatre was removed. And that even though it was removed, the game still somehow looks worse than Reach... which fully supported theatre. Though Halo 4 seemingly has a more stable framerate than Reach, so I guess it's just a matter of priority. Hopefully they bring it back on the nextbox.
 
The only change that looks good is the Carbine. The LR being adjusted so that it's more "long range" isn't the problem; it's the projectile speed and the weak sound that make it less of a viable option. BR needs to be 4sk, but as Speedy Blue said, its ROF shouldn't be made to compensate too much? Really disappointing that the DMR is not being looked at at all, mainly because it'll still create problems in BTB under this draft.

Automatics don't really need a buff. Isn't the AR already incredibly powerful? I don't understand why vehicle chainguns are getting a buff instead of removing the thing that makes them weak - plasma pistols, plasma grenades, pulse grenades, power weapon ordnance, anti-vehicular rifles, etc.
I hope they at least consider a Magnum buff too.

I'm not really optimistic about these as far as BTB is concerned. It seems like they're still trying to keep things that don't work and bend everything else around them to make up for it. I have a feeling that either the community is being misinterpreted, or 343 just doesn't want to change these things. The Boltshot is still overpowered, the plasma pistol still ruins vehicle combat - nothing is going to change. And making the Mantis more powerful just makes Ragnarok worse.
 

Nebula

Member
The only change that's good is the Carbine. The LR being adjusted so that it's more "long range" isn't the problem; it's the projectile speed and the weak sound that make it less of a viable option. BR needs to be 4sk, but as Speedy Blue said, if its RoF is made to compensate and it ends up being the same kill time, what's the point? Really disappointing that the DMR is not being looked at at all. It caused many problems in Reach and it's still causing problems.

Automatics don't need a buff. The AR is already incredibly powerful. And the worst news of all is that vehicle chainguns are getting a buff instead of removing the thing that makes them weak - plasma pistols, plasma grenades, pulse grenades, power weapon ordnance, anti-vehicular rifles, etc.

I'm not optimistic. It's like, your mom asks you to pick up milk from the store and you instead bring home the milk cartons from your school lunch to save money and time. This isn't going to fix anything.

Easy way out in my opinion. Why fix numerous things when you can fix two! The only good thing that can come of this is that people feel more brave with the Mantis and move about the map a bit more instead of camping with it, but they'll soon learn that the Plasma Pistol users will poop on them and they will go back to camping... Except this time they'll have a more powerful chaingun to do it with.

RIP in peace BTB.
 
The only change that's good is the Carbine. The LR being adjusted so that it's more "long range" isn't the problem; it's the projectile speed and the weak sound that make it less of a viable option. BR needs to be 4sk, but as Speedy Blue said, if its RoF is made to compensate and it ends up being the same kill time, what's the point? Really disappointing that the DMR is not being looked at at all. It caused many problems in Reach and it's still causing problems.

Automatics don't need a buff. The AR is already incredibly powerful. And the worst news of all is that vehicle chainguns are getting a buff instead of removing the thing that makes them weak - plasma pistols, plasma grenades, pulse grenades, power weapon ordnance, anti-vehicular rifles, etc. And where's the Magnum buff?

I'm not optimistic about these at all. It's like, your mom asks you to pick up milk from the store and you instead bring home the milk cartons from your school lunch to save money and time. This isn't going to fix anything.

Their intention was shorter kill times for the other precision rifles.

ROF x STK = Kill Time

You don't reduce KT by increasing one proportionally to how yu decrease the other. Come on like. If 343 are stupid they'll deviate from wanting lower kill times.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
And something that really reads wrong in the Bulletin is the part about the DMR

"It is the most popular weapon" Fuck no shit, the most easiest and best weapon of the bunch is the most popular? The same reason why Jetpack and Camo weren't removed from Reach probably ( they are much used)


Guys.. stuff that nets easy kills and makes it easier to win will of course be the most popular, hence why the boltshot was so heavy used.

If there were a weapon that would kill every enemy with just one shot, everyone would use this one.


It is a good approach to buff the other weapons, but right now after readin this I still fail to see how the DMR gets anyweaker on big open maps, it will still be the same shit.

Of course it isn't finalized, still want to say that I see no light after reading this.
 
Their intention was shorter kill times for the other precision rifles.

ROF x STK = Kill Time

You don't reduce KT by increasing one proportionally to how yu decrease the other. Come on like. If 343 are stupid they'll deviate from wanting lower kill times.

EDIT: I think I see what you're saying now. Yes, it's good that they're going for lower/quicker kill times. That solves one issue though, and the main ones are left unchanged.

And something that really reads wrong in the Bulletin is the part about the DMR

"It is the most popular weapon" Fuck no shit, the most easiest and best weapon of the bunch is the most popular? The same reason why Jetpack and Camo weren't removed from Reach probably ( they are much used)

And the DMR will still be the most used afterwards:

-More vehicle damage
-More aim assist
-Larger scope
-Virtually no bloom
-Large Bullet Magnetism
-Hitscan

Boltshot is still a 1sk; Plasma Pistols are still there to stun vehicles.

Instead of fixing the problem, we're creating more problems on top of our existing ones.
 
I'm sorry, I didn't understand your post. Are you in favor of these changes, or against them?

Are you back, Dyack?

You'll note, I gave no opinion on the changes. I was calling out your bullshit post about IF they increase ROF.

My point being that the can decrease shots to kill and increase ROF without keeping the kill time the same.

(ROF)(STK)=KillTime

ROF we'll just play with as 10. STK we'll say is 5. That means the kill time would be 50 whatevers.

343 come along and reduce the STK to 4 but they don't want the kill time to be as low as 40 so they increase the ROF to 11. Now the kill time is 44. 44 is less than 50 even though ROF was increased and shots to kill was reduced.

So why are you saying "if its RoF is made to compensate and it ends up being the same kill time, what's the point?" when you know basic math? You know basic math, right?
 

Nebula

Member
Wait a minute. They're not touching the DMR because it's the most used weapon? Is this true or have I misread something?
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Wait a minute. They're not touching the DMR because it's the most used weapon? Is this true or have I misread something?

They're not touching the DMR because they are making every gun better around it. Thus decreasing kill times and leveling out the DMR playing field.
 
Wait a minute. They're not touching the DMR because it's the most used weapon? Is this true or have I misread something?

They're probably just happy with the fast kill time it has and would like to increase the 'speed' of the game by having the other guns kill faster too. By making the DMR one less shot to kill, you'd almost only see the DMR held back for longer range encounters. People still have issues with the range of it and all those problems but we'll see how the changes go I guess.

Disclaimer: It could be absolute shit for all I know and I don't really care enough to say I am for or against these changes. I'm more or less happy that any change is being made at all.
 

Nebula

Member
They're not touching the DMR because they are making every gun better around it. Thus decreasing kill times and leveling out the DMR playing field.

Ah ok. Hopefully we'll see the BR do better in short to mid.

They're probably just happy with the fast kill time it has and would like to increase the 'speed' of the game by having the other guns kill faster too. By making the BR one less shot to kill, you'd almost only see the DMR held back for longer range encounters. People still have issues with the range of it and all those problems but we'll see how the changes go I guess.

Disclaimer: It could be absolute shit for all I know and I don't really care enough to say I am for or against these changes. I'm more or less happy that any change is being made at all.

I'm looking forward to the update so far. If we do see the playing field level out a bit more it should be great for 4 v 4 matches. BTB will still be a giant turd though, which is a shame. Also edited your post, cause you typed DMR and it seemed like you meant BR. Bolded it anyway.
 
If we do see the playing field level out a bit more it should be great for 4 v 4 matches. BTB will still be a giant turd though, which is a shame.

This is where my concern is. These changes will be nice for smaller matches, but ultimately do very little to fix BTB's issues.
 
If the BR ends up at 4shot I'm super happy. It feels good right now, but going against someone who's half decent with a DMR is not really much of a contest. That's my main gun, AR secondary. Sometimes I'll use the LR.
 

IHaveIce

Banned
They're not touching the DMR because they are making every gun better around it. Thus decreasing kill times and leveling out the DMR playing field.

But I don't know, maybe it is really just me, but the problem with the DMR wasn't how it shoots or anything it was that it was too damn accurate on big open maps and ruins the fun on stuff like Ragnarok.
I don't get why they won't decrease aim assist over distance or something like this.

It won't matter if your BR is 4shot if you still get pinged all over the damn map and can't descope him.

edit: I agree with above, it is fine for 4v4 games, it is very good then. But BTB is not anything near fixed after this balancing
 

Nebula

Member
There are times I wish I didn't like BTB or vehicles just so I could benefit from a better Halo 4 experience. Looks like that's the case again :(
 

willow ve

Member
Should have nerfed DMR scope to 2x or made it map pickup only. No one was clamoring for a light rifle buff.

Again: it's not the sandbox so much as the LOADOUTS that are causing the imbalance.
 
I really doubt they'll reduce the rate of fire for the BR so much that kill times remain equivalent. I just think it'll be a slight reduction to compensate.

Besides, that puts a higher emphasis on teamshotting with the BR, right?
 

IHaveIce

Banned
Also I hope they still look at tweaking power weapons.

The Beam Rifle needs to have less auto aim, this weapon is just crazy and better unscoped than scoped
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom