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Halo |OT16| Oh Bungie, Where Art Thou?

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O

Obscured

Member
BigShow36 said:
Why doesn't the NFL consult with the PeeWee team the Green Machine from Michigan when they're discussing the latest rule changes for football? Is it because they want to make the game less fun for them? No, it's because they're fucking PeeWee and don't understand nor give a shit that you can't cover up the tight end from the wide receiver position. Does it "affect" them? Yeah, in the same way aim assist alterations and proper weapon balancing "affect" casual players. That doesn't mean it makes the game less fun for them. It makes the game better for everyone, and the Green Machine will appreciate the depth of the game as they get older and their skill increases.
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But if the PeeWee team the Green Machine had to play in the NFL then yes they probably should be included.

The competitive vs causal labels are a bit silly and usually to serve to derail any discourse as opposed to effectively communicating a point someone might be trying to make. Similar to the 'I play for fun' argument. They've become a shorthand way to make some point, but that point is different depending on your individual perspective. A causal player still wants to do well, they just don't want to have to spend all of their time learning every intricacy of the game to even have a chance. A competitive player still wants to have fun, those elements of the game they find to be more fun will just have a different priority.

The idea that the causal experience is a subset of a competitive one is a tidy easily digestable idea, but I don't think is completely accurate. There is certainly an overlap, many of the suggestions I've seen here and elsewhere have merit, but being a causal player is not synonymous with not caring about anything. You would still understand something feels off even if you cannot articulate exactly why that is the case.

Being a top tier player is not the only way to understand the game and express both it's flaws and strengths. That is not to say those views aren't valid or to say every view anybody has is valid. They should be judged on the merit and logic of any particular idea itself. That only one group has the 'right' to have thier voice heard is a narrow and self-centered view.

I'd rather see Halo have more areas where you can see more of a skill curve (not a gap, it isn't a division, it is a goal, one that possibly you can't reach but that you could aspire). I'd like to see division of skill that actually works (and seperated by solo vs team play). I'd like to see more customization options to allow groups to play the game they want, but also allow the creation of future game types, let see if the community can evolve.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
So I'm playing Halo 4 in a party. And 3 times so far, I've been lagged out and then back into the party. And I get booted out of the game.

NAT's opening, my connection on laptop seems normal. What the eff.
 
B

Booshka

Member
Wahrer said:
If it's still a 6-shot kill with the damage increase, how exactly does that improve teamshooting? I can't wrap my brain around it.
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Silly Casuals.

Math bro, if it does more damage, then damage will add up quicker leading to faster kill times when team shooting. If someone put some shots into someone, or a nade, then that little damage boost will pay dividends.

Individually, if you lay down shots with DMR/BR and switch to Pistol to finish kill, the damage boost will help get that kill.
 
G

Gordon

Member
I hope it makes the Magnum feel like it's doing something. As it stands it almost feels like the hits aren't registering sometimes lol
I wonder how it would fare if they tuned the Magnum down to a 3sk and disabled it's headshot-aim-assist ala CE.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Gordon said:
I hope it makes the Magnum feel like it's doing something. As it stands it almost feels like the hits aren't registering sometimes lol
I wonder how it would fare if they tuned the Magnum down to a 3sk and disabled it's headshot-aim-assist ala CE.
Click to expand...

A Combat Evolved playlist should happen with restricted AR/Magnum loadouts and static weapons/Powerup spawns now that they have that weapon tuner.

Holy shit, that's actually something that should happen.. or at least make that a gametype in Action Sack!
 
G

Gordon

Member
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
A Combat Evolved playlist should happen with restricted AR/Magnum loadouts and static weapons/Powerup spawns now that they have that weapon tuner.

Holy shit, that's actually something that should happen.. or at least make that a gametype in Action Sack!
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Totally - it would be my go-to playlist. It really sucks that CEA was pay-walled. With a broader audience, I think that could have had a nice influence on the series. I mean, the Boltshot never would have been an issue if Magnums started out 3sk, and that would make the 4sk BR more likely [such that I suspect we would have seen that at launch too], which imo would have struck a much more interesting balance. A 5sk DMR wouldn't be an issue there either. I mean, beyond everything needing a little aim-assist nerfing etc., 'classic' weapon settings would establish a nice clear hierarchical range/power balance with shot-to-kill increasing naturally over distance via spread from a shorter range weapon, or from lower damage output of longer range weapons. I really hope that's what 'Legendary Slayer' is. Anybody know anything about that yet?

xxjuicesxx said:
WHY IS OBJECTIVE 6v6 WTF ARE YOU DOING BRAVO?! YOU ARE SO BAD!

Jesus christ Hire Juices this is fucking embarrassing.
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Probably just offsetting the JIP/quit/JIP shenanigans

Edit:
2UN60xB.jpg
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S

Shadders

Member
I really don't get why there is a casual vs competitive debate.

Is there an example of a competitive game that can't be played casually? Even LoL and SC2 are fairly easy on new/casual players as they have systems in place to make sure new players never meet the pros.

I'm a casual Halo player, (or I'm a shit Halo player, whatever..) but I appreciate the importance that competitive balance and predictability can bring to the game at all levels. No matter how unskilled you are, you could load a Halo 3 or Reach map into Forge and see where the weapons spawned. The predictability of the game could make up for a lack of skill (at least a little bit).

There isn't a single thing the competitive community have asked for that would make the game worse for casuals, almost everything the competitive community have called for have been custom game options!

Like I say, I just don't understand why any casual players would have a bee in their bonnet over the sort of tweaks and feature requests the competitive community would like to see, it doesn't effect the casual-level game at all.
 
G

Gordon

Member
Shadders said:
I really don't get why there is a casual vs competitive debate.

Is there an example of a competitive game that can't be played casually? Even LoL and SC2 are fairly easy on new/casual players as they have systems in place to make sure new players never meet the pros.

I'm a casual Halo player, (or I'm a shit Halo player, whatever..) but I appreciate the importance that competitive balance and predictability can bring to the game at all levels. No matter how unskilled you are, you could load a Halo 3 or Reach map into Forge and see where the weapons spawned. The predictability of the game could make up for a lack of skill (at least a little bit).

There isn't a single thing the competitive community have asked for that would make the game worse for casuals, almost everything the competitive community have called for have been custom game options!

Like I say, I just don't understand why any casual players would have a bee in their bonnet over the sort of tweaks and feature requests the competitive community would like to see, it doesn't effect the casual-level game at all.
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Well that's just it - they don't, beyond the odd ragequit that comes on forums to vent. The issue is that there seems to suddenly [in the last few years] be this huge concern that the promise of a challenge or contest of skill drives away potential buyers. The various developers are pushing towards 'more inclusive' games that are effectively dumbing the gameplay down toward one of those choose-your-own-ending books, in the form of a crappy repetitive movie. It really feels like they're marketing everything to eight-year-olds. Frankly, I'm half-convinced they literally are intentionally developing T-M rated games to attract under-age gamers. It'd be nice if they'd just get over themselves and admit it. I want my Halo: Lego Edition! (basically Murder Miners with graphics)

Edit: Something just occurred to me - why is MegaBlocks affiliated with Halo? I mean seriously, how much demographic overlap is there between console FPS games and recommended age 0-3 brightly coloured plastic blocks?
Oh fuck - I think I need to quit Halo now. I just realized there's a non-zero answer to this question. Maybe I'll just quit the planet. Is that Mars thing still taking people?
 
H

heckfu

Banned
holy shit i finally get it. it wasn't until juices said it, but i couldn't imagine if fifa did something to lower the skill gap and made it unfair if one team equipped like a speed boost or improved shot accuracy before the game started.


why did it take this long to finally empathize with you guys?
 
T

The Henery

Member
There's still elementary things in Halo 4 which are just baffling. My friend kindly gifted me 800 ms points with the caveat that I spend them on the Castle DLC pack.

Playing Flag on Daybreak: Why does a sniper spawn once in the base at the beginning of a match then never again????? It doesn't fit with the BK-centric aims of Global Ordnance but it doesn't cater to people who like their weapons on regular spawn timers. It pleases neither group.

Why do weapons disappear before you've even had time to respawn much less time to recover said weapons? It fosters an overly conservative playstyle, the penalty for death too high. Only get one chance with that one-a-match sniper, better not die! Accelerated weapon despawn kinda-sorta makes sense in Infinity but in Flag? Are they even testing across gametypes?

Why does Red base have a man-cannon allowing snappy cross-map traversal but Blue base doesn't? Myself and aformentioned friend were playing as a team of two so inevitably we were matched with BK's. It was significantly harder to cap a flag as Red team. It always reflected really poorly on the people in charge when asymmetrical maps would be put into slayer playlists and one team would be gifted an inherent advantage at spawn (red team on Guardian - snipe, OS and camo, Red team on Reflection - instant rockets, red team on Lockout - instant BR tower and favourable route to snipe). But Daybreak in Halo 4? As far as I can tell it was purpose built for two flag CTF, which marks the inclusion of a man-cannon in one base only as something approaching the level of a scandal. It would be like creating Narrows in Halo 3 but deleting the man-cannon from one side only (then saying 'lol functionally symmetrical'). It's an insult to people paying money to play this shit and somebody senior at 343 really ought to take this franchise by the scruff of the neck and just flat out fire people who are making decisions like that, gross misconduct, immediate dismissal, enough is enough.

Why are weapon waypoints still not displaying consistently? Sometimes I'll see a weapon waypoint that my teammate can't see and vice-versa. The distance I have to be from a weapon in order to see its waypoint varies wildly from game to game. Often they don't display at all.

Other gripes from recent play: multi team still has one team too many plus SWAT is in there why? On Ragnorok no less! Flinch is still execrable. Infinity anything is still plague-locust-death-pox-ebola-sars-leprosy-bird flu distilled.
 
K

Ken

Member
The Henery said:
There's still elementary things in Halo 4 which are just baffling. My friend kindly gifted me 800 ms points with the caveat that I spend them on the Castle DLC pack.

Playing Flag on Daybreak: Why does a sniper spawn once in the base at the beginning of a match then never again????? It doesn't fit with the BK-centric aims of Global Ordnance but it doesn't cater to people who like their weapons on regular spawn timers. It pleases neither group.

Why do weapons disappear before you've even had time to respawn much less time to recover said weapons? It fosters an overly conservative playstyle, the penalty for death too high. Only get one chance with that one-a-match sniper, better not die! Accelerated weapon despawn kinda-sorta makes sense in Infinity but in Flag? Are they even testing across gametypes?

Why does Red base have a man-cannon allowing snappy cross-map traversal but Blue base doesn't? Myself and aformentioned friend were playing as a team of two so inevitably we were matched with BK's. It was significantly harder to cap a flag as Red team. It always reflected really poorly on the people in charge when asymmetrical maps would be put into slayer playlists and one team would be gifted an inherent advantage at spawn (red team on Guardian - snipe, OS and camo, Red team on Reflection - instant rockets, red team on Lockout - instant BR tower and favourable route to snipe). But Daybreak in Halo 4? As far as I can tell it was purpose built for two flag CTF, which marks the inclusion of a man-cannon in one base only as something approaching the level of a scandal. It would be like creating Narrows in Halo 3 but deleting the man-cannon from one side only (then saying 'lol functionally symmetrical'). It's an insult to people paying money to play this shit and somebody senior at 343 really ought to take this franchise by the scruff of the neck and just flat out fire people who are making decisions like that, gross misconduct, immediate dismissal, enough is enough.

Why are weapon waypoints still not displaying consistently? Sometimes I'll see a weapon waypoint that my teammate can't see and vice-versa. The distance I have to be from a weapon in order to see its waypoint varies wildly from game to game. Often they don't display at all.

Other gripes from recent play: multi team still has one team too many plus SWAT is in there why? On Ragnorok no less! Flinch is still execrable. Infinity anything is still plague-locust-death-pox-ebola-sars-leprosy-bird flu distilled.
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You should have denied the gift.
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
Madness said:
DQBGUv0.gif
Click to expand...

Like it was yesterday

The Henery said:
Why does Red base have a man-cannon allowing snappy cross-map traversal but Blue base doesn't? Myself and aformentioned friend were playing as a team of two so inevitably we were matched with BK's. It was significantly harder to cap a flag as Red team. It always reflected really poorly on the people in charge when asymmetrical maps would be put into slayer playlists and one team would be gifted an inherent advantage at spawn (red team on Guardian - snipe, OS and camo, Red team on Reflection - instant rockets, red team on Lockout - instant BR tower and favourable route to snipe).
Click to expand...

I remember them mentioning on their map walkthrough that it was a visually asymmetrical but functionally symmetrical map.
Yeah no, it was clear just from the video that's not the case. One side has a man cannon and the other has to sprint and jump around to travel the same distance! I also dislike the fact that each side has different weapon spawns.
I'm obviously no expert but they have no idea about what makes a good map, good.
 
T

The Henery

Member
Ken said:
You should have denied the gift.
Click to expand...

Too true. I felt so compromised.

@Juices: agreed on ammo problems. 6 months later and I'm still letting myself die simply so I can shoot my gun again in an FPS game. How is frequently running out of ammo making Halo accessible to new-comers... Thinking about it new players are like to die before they see the bottom of a magazine so I guess players who survive long enough to run out of ammo being effectively castrated is a way of helping masterchiefs with their leg in a cast (maybe greenskull witnessed them playing COD)?
 
S

Shadders

Member
The Henery said:
Too true. I felt so compromised.

@Juices: agreed on ammo problems. 6 months later and I'm still letting myself die simply so I can shoot my gun again in an FPS game. How is frequently running out of ammo making Halo accessible to new-comers... Thinking about it new players are like to die before they see the bottom of a magazine so I guess players who survive long enough to run out of ammo being effectively castrated is a way of helping masterchiefs with their leg in a cast (maybe greenskull witnessed them playing COD)?
Click to expand...

Have you played with the extra ammo perk?

I hadn't used it as I didn't see its value over the ability to be shot and not have my reticle jump all over the screen or being able to reload near instantly, but it's actually really good. So many extra kills from getting power weapons with extra ammo.

I'm not saying this is better than just having ammo on the map or having dropped weapons stick around for more than a few seconds, but it might help your experience if you're running out of ammo a lot.
 
T

The Henery

Member
Shadders said:
Have you played with the extra ammo perk?

I hadn't used it as I didn't see its value over the ability to be shot and not have my reticle jump all over the screen or being able to reload near instantly, but it's actually really good. So many extra kills from getting power weapons with extra ammo.

I'm not saying this is better than just having ammo on the map or having dropped weapons stick around for more than a few seconds, but it might help your experience if you're running out of ammo a lot.
Click to expand...

I do have an ammo loadout. I use it primarily in BTB or maps where a significant power weapon has an initial spawn (snipe on daybreak and complex, beam and rockets on monolith etc). Thing is I prefer using dexterity or explosives. Believe it or not I still run out of DMR ammo on occasion with the mod enabled; the DMR promotes staying back or on the fringes of maps so the dropped ammo of foes is often an inpractical trek and might even despawn by the time I've reached the corpse. To be honest, CTF should just have set loadouts, plenty of precision weapons dotted around the map for ammo top up, plasma pistols on the map and regularly respawning power weapons in the same location at timed intervals.

Playing Halo 3 the other night, everyone spawned with two nades and could pick them up on the battlefield...everyone reloaded at the same speed...I never ran out of ammo for the base weapon and if I died with snipe I could go and pick it up after I'd respawned. It was great!
 
S

StalkerUKCG

Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
Aww I got disconnected its late I'm done. Good games everyone!....besides the Halo 4 games, those were friggen terrible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLZNWapePWI&feature=youtu.be

Halo 4 Valhalla is BAD. Why is ammo so limited in Halo. You are in VR. THERES NOT ACTUALLY AMMO!
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Because Ordnance replaces weapons on map which means nothing to grab from ammo and weapons despawn in seconds and theirs a 1 in 7 chance that its the actual ammo you need.

basically its bad.
 
A

Alchemical

Neo Member
The Henery said:
Too true. I felt so compromised.

@Juices: agreed on ammo problems. 6 months later and I'm still letting myself die simply so I can shoot my gun again in an FPS game. How is frequently running out of ammo making Halo accessible to new-comers... Thinking about it new players are like to die before they see the bottom of a magazine so I guess players who survive long enough to run out of ammo being effectively castrated is a way of helping masterchiefs with their leg in a cast (maybe greenskull witnessed them playing COD)?
Click to expand...

I know it seems like a small thing in a long list but this really is near the top of my list of gripes with this game. I don't play all that regularly, as the game simply doesn't entice me to do so like previous titles, but when I do, I'd say 90% of my post-warm up matches are characterized by this particular highlight.

I remember countless game on Reach where I'd just sit back next to a DMR spawn and get perfections/frenzies etc. thanks to the regularity of a DMR spawning in a set location every few minutes. I suppose the removal of this particular feature in Halo 4 is supposed to stop me from doing this, but even in games where I'm playing super-aggressively without dying, I still almost always get to a point where I run out of ammo in both my weapons and end up making a stupid map movement decision simply to acquire some ammo.

In all my years of playing the various Halo titles I really never thought I'd see the day when I'd be punished for not dying. It's beyond stupidity.
 
V

Vico

Member
NobleGundam said:
Most Great Sci-Fi & Comic Universes Uses Either These Two Methods To Twist & Mind Fuck The Story.

1) Time Travel
2) Multi-Verse
Or Both (Star Trek Movie)

I believe Halo will use this Method in future games possibly.

If im not mistakend in the First Strike novel a time/space crystal that altered slipspace travel within a slipspace bubble. Would use the above methods in Halo's Lore make things slightly more interesting IF done carefully? I'd most certainly think it can work. Whats your say Halogaf? Y/N
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Well, i really hope they won't. They have to be smarter than that.
I mean, I like these elements in games, TV shows or movies, but only when it's there (or hinted at) from the beginning or something.

I know it pretty much happened in First Strike, but I hope they just forget about it, because I certainly don't want it to touch the games.
 
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