Well I won't type my usual wall o'texts but if you've only played from Halo 3 onwards and found the games to have gotten better, you won't really understand why other people feel this way anyways.
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Halo |OT18| We're Back Baby!
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Well I won't type my usual wall o'texts but if you've only played from Halo 3 onwards and found the games to have gotten better, you won't really understand why other people feel this way anyways.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
Is that not still the case though? I mean sometimes ordinance drops will throw in some really good weapons but it never feels like it truly dominates the game. As for the whole weapon disparity issue, for the most part people are generally packing a BR or DMR which both generally feel like they have the same damage output (correct me if i'm wrong though, I know they did some balancing). I love being able to pack a plasma pistol with one of my loadouts just so I can deal with vehicles, or have a boltshot for some one on one combat.
I can see the frustration with the difference in armor abilities though, that can be quite... unpredictable I guess. But never have I ever felt like any of them gave some sort of great advantage or disadvantage in regards to match ups.
With all of this variety, it feels like Halo has never been better personally, I would hate for them to backtrack and cut out the capability of personal loadouts in future installments.
Then again, I don't even know why I wrote all of this stuff, 70% of the time I'm playing swat
Well Halo 3 was the first Halo i've ever played at launch with an active community. Should have rephrased that. I started at Halo 1 near launch when a friend got it, later played on the PC with that online community (made an amateur montage as well). Didn't play much of Halo 2 besides the story and a few online matches (Never stuck with me, least favorite game of the series).
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
Is that not still the case though? I mean sometimes ordinance drops will throw in some really good weapons but it never feels like it truly dominates the game. As for the whole weapon disparity issue, for the most part people are generally packing a BR or DMR which both generally feel like they have the same damage output (correct me if i'm wrong though, I know they did some balancing). I love being able to pack a plasma pistol with one of my loadouts just so I can deal with vehicles, or have a boltshot for some one on one combat.
I can see the frustration with the difference in armor abilities though, that can be quite... unpredictable I guess. But never have I ever felt like any of them gave some sort of great advantage or disadvantage in regards to match ups.
With all of this variety, it feels like Halo has never been better personally, I would hate for them to backtrack and cut out the capability of personal loadouts in future installments.
Then again, I don't even know why I wrote all of this stuff, 70% of the time I'm playing swat
The thing is, you and some others might not notice the huge difference it makes, but tons of old Halo fans do. When there are people that camp with Active Camo and can call down Beam Rifles and Binary Rifles without moving, you know the game is unbalanced.
YourExWife
Member
It happens for literally everyone, it's not xbox specific. Certain gametypes (Dominion especially) on certain maps (Exile, Meltdown, Vortex) are seriously guaranteed to have it happen no matter what. Meltdown gives the host a shitty framerate without fail (but the client players have no issues). Wreckage you can induce frame drops just by looking at the sun (down to about 5fps usually). Longbow had an issue for a while because there were 2 scorpions and 2 banshees on the map at the same time, so if they were all shooting, the framerate would drop, even if none of the shots were visible to your POV. Or if more than 1 vehicle gets destroyed at the same time.
Forge maps have variable issues (maybe host/client as well, not sure).
But yeah, you have to be pretty unaware of the screen not to notice these things.
Because it's a terrible FFA gametype. It encourages you to not do your best. What's really great is when there's a tie for first and it randomly makes one person the king and the other gets to live. Team Regicide, on the other hand, is pretty awesome and an interesting slayer/obj mix.
Barrow Roll
Member
And now vehicles are all but useless and anyone can have a shotgun in their pocket, all because they made a selection is some menus.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
It would be cool if scopes worked like this in future Halo games (behaving exactly the same, but using the actual 3D model in part.)
Just speed up the animation, even if it was super fast it should be worth it at 60 fps.
Just speed up the animation, even if it was super fast it should be worth it at 60 fps.
Is that not still the case though? I mean sometimes ordinance drops will throw in some really good weapons but it never feels like it truly dominates the game. As for the whole weapon disparity issue, for the most part people are generally packing a BR or DMR which both generally feel like they have the same damage output (correct me if i'm wrong though, I know they did some balancing). I love being able to pack a plasma pistol with one of my loadouts just so I can deal with vehicles, or have a boltshot for some one on one combat.
I can see the frustration with the difference in armor abilities though, that can be quite... unpredictable I guess. But never have I ever felt like any of them gave some sort of great advantage or disadvantage in regards to match ups.
With all of this variety, it feels like Halo has never been better personally, I would hate for them to backtrack and cut out the capability of personal loadouts in future installments.
Then again, I don't even know why I wrote all of this stuff, 70% of the time I'm playing swat
Well Halo 3 was the first Halo i've ever played at launch with an active community. Should have rephrased that. I started at Halo 1 near launch when a friend got it, later played on the PC with that online community (made an amateur montage as well). Didn't play much of Halo 2 besides the story and a few online matches (Never stuck with me, least favorite game of the series).
So if you spend 70% of your time playing SWAT, are you really capable of objectively discussing the small changes to gameplay in team slayer, big team battle etc. On the one hand, you make a montage showing you messing around in the warthog, but then in the other you talk about how you like having a loadout with Plasma pistol to deal with vehicles. How much fun would you have had with a warthog in in past games if everyone had plasma pistols and sticky on them at all times?
Ordnance drops completely change the game. It's not a question of everyone has DMR/BR, it's a question of, somebody who gets assists gets a free incineration cannon, someone who goes on a killing spree gets a needler. Random ordnance also meant a team can get lucky and get a Spartan laser drop near their base while the other team gets a concussion rifle.
I've stopped playing, but entire BTB matches just became people with camo, jet pack, and like 2-3 people on each side having sniper rifles, beam rifles, incineration cannon etc. You have guys start a match with a mini shotgun and pre patch was devastating. Map control gone, team play gone, stealth all but useless.
Perks completely effed up the gameplay. Someone with an ammo perk gets 6 rockets in a rocket launcher or 15 shots with a fuel rod gun. Someone who gets sniper in ordnance can die and then call it down with their camo/stealth loadout where they're pretty much invisible on the map etc. It's completely not fair and has changed what Halo was or how it plays.
NobleGundam
Banned
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
Well the reason I feel like I can talk about it is that i've invested a good amount of time in multiplayer (rank 130 and almost 7 days total on file). I've noticed what they've done in certain maps on BTB (like taking away some customizability which I hate as well as adding/ taking out vehicles in maps).
I feel like having plasma pistols as a choice on a vehicle oriented map evens out the playing field. How else are you going to take down a menacing mantis, or a pesky ghost? Throwing grenades and shooting at them until they explode is not a very good strategy in my opinion. Plus, this makes vehicles users think a bit more, be a little more cautious and realize they might be packing heat but they are vulnerable. Not to mention, there's an armor ability assist (forget what it's called forgive me) that halves the cooldown time (Which I use on my default loadout).
As for ordinances, you can always get the ability to reroll it. Might not be in your favor, I guess, and maybe some dude will get an inceneration cannon on the other team. How is it any different from grabbing the rockets on the map besides the fact that they earned it through playing good?
As for your last part, I guess this never crossed my mind since I never used the ammo perk. And snipers are gonna snipe. It only takes one death for me to figure out their hide out and take care of business.
Ordnance throws way too many power weapons into the mix and rewards players for (usually) camping and not getting involved so much in the game. They create a "must not die" mentality, especially if that person is using a power weapon dropped at the start. People love chaining ordnance and the fact that you can do that is horrible. You just kill people for rewards. You don't really control an area of the map for a weapon spawn and to me that's a horrible decision by 343. You remove the need to at least try and have some team work, and moving about the map becomes pointless.
As a BTB player, with most weapons being anti vehicle now, having more in the mix makes using vehicles a chore. People don't try and tactically move on an enemy hog anymore. They use a power weapon because they usually have one on hand.
A lot of the loadout weapons feel incredibly similar and I don't see why we have 3 slight variants of one type of weapon. The only ones that actually vary to a large degree are the pistols. I also dislike the DMR because it doesn't feel anywhere near as satisfying to get kills with and it creates a horrible cross map pinging gameplay. It doesn't feel like Halo to me. People should be moving up a map and controlling key points, and they were forced to do this because the weapon didn't have near sniper capabilities like the DMR does. Once again the emphasis on map movement and control has been lessened drastically.
I personally dislike the balancing myself. I'll probably take some heat for this but I thought kill times, in a situation where neither player decided to run off, were too fast before the TU. Now it's faster which annoys me to no end. I feel that the DMR should have been nerfed.
This is probably one of my largest issues with Halo 4. Thanks to loadouts including a Plasma Pistol and 2 Plasma grenades, you basically become a one man army against pretty much all vehicles. This issue is the reason Survivor (new perk in the latest TU) was introduced. This combo is massively overpowered and once again lessens a vehicles impact on the game. There's no more tactical thinking when it comes to taking on that enemy hog. It's just a game of spam the Plasma pistol until you hit, and then spam grenades for a basically guaranteed kill/vehicle kill.
Jet Pack destroys map movement and allows players to easily remove the height advantage another player has worked for, all at the push of a button. It makes a lot of maps play horribly if abused and normally results in crap gameplay, in my opinion.
Regen field isn't used much but It's something I don't like as it allows a player to quickly recover from a fight which makes them think a lot less about how they plan on getting to cover to recover from a battle. Not used much though so I don't usually complain about it.
Thruster pack is the only good armour ability in my opinion. It allows for some quick movements and change of direction with breaking map flow, and can be used very effectively if you got a bit of know how. It allows you to make some great decisions in map movement such as speeding up a drop down to a lower level or altering the flight path of a man cannon. It's not as simple as pressing a button and gaining a height advantage.
I'm glad you're enjoying the game and getting your moneys worth. But there are a lot of people who feel differently which is why we voice our dislike of features in the game, and why some of us want a return to past games. I personally want to hit it back to Halo 3 and try again from that point. I don't just want to go back to a past installment and never have it updated. I feel there are other paths we can go down to make Halo a better, more innovative game. I don't think making people one man armies with loadouts is the way to go. There needs to be a huge balancing when it comes to loadouts. One thing I asked myself on the first week is why on earth 343 saw that the Pulse Grenade was somehow powerful enough to warrant only one on spawn, yet you can get 2 Plasma Grenades? For loadouts to work we need balance. I'm not saying that all the things be the same, but that they don't absolutely decimate.
Then again, I don't even know why I wrote all of this stuff, 70% of the time I'm playing swat
You're just curious as to why people can dislike the game when you find it so fun. It's perfectly understandable.
I started on Halo 2. I only ever played Halo 1 on a modded Xbox or in the campaign. Sorry if stuff feels jumbled or whatever. I'm not good at posting walls.
The problem with halo 4 is the cod like elements in the MP.Some of the AA's are really powerful and cheap if you know how to use them(i.e Camo, jetpack).Personal ordnance is also a problem because the weapon choices are random and you don't lose any meter when you die. JIP is an annoyance, but most of the issues with it have been fixed.Their are some issues with loadouts, but most of the weapons and grenades in the loadouts don't unbalance the game.Features from previous halo games are missing, but that does not bother me that much compared to the other three issues.Also, some perks especially some of the recent perks put into the game like the survivor perk are overpowered.I still play halo 4 because the base gameplay is really awesome when you don't have to deal with the cod like stuff.Spartan Ops is okay, but you have to deal with an insane amount of lag at times when you are playing matchmaking or co-op in spartan ops.The campaign is pretty good, but it can be repetitive at times and confusing.
Everyone can choose it so it's balanced. Please think.
Seriously though, Btb is a mess. Vehicles are useless, lots of snipers because of ordnance along with ammo perk and no descope, camo players, etc etc.
I use regen field a lot and you have to find a good area to use it in.If you use it in a bad area you will get destroyed. I got killed multiple times while I was in the regen field bubble.
YourExWife
Member
Don't worry, just combine regen with the now 2! shield perks and your shields will never be low ever again.
Just quote the bit you're commenting on. It saves everyone a lot of scrolling!
THINK OF THE MOBILE USERS!
I'm not using either of those perks unless I need to get the achievements related to those perks. Isn't recharge useless if you use the regen field AA anyway.
YourExWife
Member
Well normally the trick is to step out of and back into the regen to get the recharge going again quickly. Now you don't even need to do that.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
I can agree with you on the DMRs. On long range maps, they can be devastating in numbers and despite being so far away, if i'm versing a good team I will get mauled no questions asked. So I can see the map movement problem.
As I said in a previous post, Vehicles are still as menacing as they've ever been, they just need to be on their toes a little bit. I still see myself jumping in a vehicle for every chance that I get, simply because I feel like I have a good enough handle not to get myself ambushed by multiple plasmas coming my way.
Your armor ability complaints though, I don't really see them. Originally I wrote reasons but I'm just going to leave it at this, that's why variety and the ability to choose your own is great.
Is there any reason to believe otherwise?
Just realized that I forgot Camo. Pretty incredible considering how much I hate it. I'll just pull up a post by myself from near release.
It's just abused by long range folk and any decent Sniper would move after one kill. It's a problem on Reach that carried over to Halo 4. Spotting someone at a distance is hard enough in the heat of battle. Them being invisible takes any chance of spotting them unless they miss. You then have to get close enough and have a decent line of sight to kill them without the rest of the enemy team stopping you.
You don't see my issues with AAs because you don't share them. It's going to be really hard for me to show you why they need changing/removing because you've already formed an opinion on them.
I'd love to hear why you believe they aren't a problem, going into each ability if you want to.
It's just abused by long range folk and any decent Sniper would move after one kill. It's a problem on Reach that carried over to Halo 4. Spotting someone at a distance is hard enough in the heat of battle. Them being invisible takes any chance of spotting them unless they miss. You then have to get close enough and have a decent line of sight to kill them without the rest of the enemy team stopping you.
You don't see my issues with AAs because you don't share them. It's going to be really hard for me to show you why they need changing/removing because you've already formed an opinion on them.
I'd love to hear why you believe they aren't a problem, going into each ability if you want to.
I don't want to respond to this, but I want everyone to know that it exists.
I was incredibly disappointed by that line.
Last time, you asked me, if it were my choice, would we be on repeat? Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer has not changed.
YourExWife
Member
Goddamn.
The difference between picking up rockets on map and having a Incinerator Cannon shipped to your spartan by Amazon via the Infinity is 3 concepts:
- Map Control
- Weapon Balancing
- Weapon Loops
Ex: To get Sniper on a map, you usually to control the middle of the map. The trade off is that you are exposed out in mid, while the other team could easily re-fortify in their base with their base BRs or Carbines.
Second, the Sniper is in the worst place to use it, out in an open field with no cover. This balances the weapon by virtue of it's placement and goes hand in hand with the next concept. You have to control the map, then acquire the gun and then take it, under fire, to the best part of the map to use it.
This is where the Weapon Loop comes in. A weapon loop is the loop between the weapon's spawn and the best place to use it. The only way to resupply the weapon (usually) is via the weapon loop, so there's a risk every time you wish to get more ammo. This controls sniping by forcing the sniper to re-supply. While sniper resupplies, this is the time for the opposing team to push and kill the sniper or lock down that part of the map so much you force the sniper to stay at base with an empty snipe, making them go a man down just to keep you from getting snipe, or force him to swap weapons, which will give you a chance to pick up a respawning sniper.
Halo 4 doesn't have a weapon loop, map control, or any balancing of where a weapon can be acquired. You pick a good spot to kill from, then you are literally handed weapons that are incrementally better and better at killing from this spot. Kill a bunch of people with the incinerator, get rewarded with another incinerator directly dropped to your spot, or slap on a perk that gives you more ammo for it, and you have endless killing with no risk and no incentive to play the map. If someone kills you, you'll spawn right next to your teammates with the changes they made to the spawn system, pick your weapon right back up, and start incinerating again.
You tell them you're too busy in BattlefieldGAF.
Not necessarily true, because your power weapon has probably already disappeared! lolololol
You died it.
One of your teammates probably just died with the same weapon
YourExWife
Member
Ironically, this is to combat the stupidity of the Infinity style of gametype, where there's shit tons of weapons at any one point otherwise. But of course it totally fucks over everything in "Pro" or Obj gametypes where you don't instant respawn or get gifts from the gods (the old and the new).
I'm sure there's some game engine-based excuse for it as well, but idgaf.
Fixed.
NobleGundam
Banned
I want what everyone else wants for Halo. And that is to evolve. But not at the cost of breaking it even more that it becomes unbalanced and doesn't feel fun.
Getting straight to the point, these broken Ordnance weapons, Armor Abilities, Perks (Specializations), and even Loadouts can ruin an already balanced formula that had equal starts. Like others here have stated constructively is that if players know how to easily abuse even one of these can really break the flow of the game. That's primarily why Halo 4 hasn't been feeling like Halo because the core isn't polished enough.
I don't have as much problems regarding sprint like others have had but only that it promoted more large asymmetrical maps with very few decent small symmetrical arena maps. If you're enjoying Halo 4 that's awesome. Maybe you'll be inspired to create and share content / ideas to make Halo even better that other fans may enjoy!
Getting straight to the point, these broken Ordnance weapons, Armor Abilities, Perks (Specializations), and even Loadouts can ruin an already balanced formula that had equal starts. Like others here have stated constructively is that if players know how to easily abuse even one of these can really break the flow of the game. That's primarily why Halo 4 hasn't been feeling like Halo because the core isn't polished enough.
I don't have as much problems regarding sprint like others have had but only that it promoted more large asymmetrical maps with very few decent small symmetrical arena maps. If you're enjoying Halo 4 that's awesome. Maybe you'll be inspired to create and share content / ideas to make Halo even better that other fans may enjoy!
Frey O'Connor gives no shits about your gods, old or new.
YourExWife
Member
Heh.
Felt like they cranked the garbage collector up to 11 just to keep performance up
I mean, it's on in campaign too. And Halo used to all be about dat persistence as you played a campaign level. Now you drop a sniper, go around the corner, come back and a grunt has ninja'd it away.
Gotta maintain an average of 20FPS.
User 73706
Banned
We're approaching mid-Autumn.
I think that's when the megaposts started.
When we activated the Array.
I don't have to time to explain every reason Halo 4 is bad (and most of it's been covered anyway) but I have to comment on this, as it's a great example of a terribile design philosophy that's a big overlying theme of the game's overall crapulence.
Yes, you can choose a perk to partially alleviate one of the problems with personal ordnance. But why should the problem exist in the first place? Ordnance, flinch, plasma pistol spawns in BTB, and a number of other issues have perks that negate them. Sick of random weapons spawns? Pick the perk that shows you where they're going to come in. Don't like your vehicles constantly getting EMP'd? Take the perk that reduces stun time. Flinch makes it hard to counter cross-map DMRs! Good thing you can just take a perk that removes it!
This is not how you make a good game, by filling it with bad mechanics and allowing the player to nullify up to two of them at a time. What if we just didn't let everyone get a plasma pistol on spawn? Placed weapons at consistent locations with consistent respawn times? Replaced flinch with descoping? We'd have a much more consistent, even, fun experience.
But 343 wanted to differentiate themselves from Bungie, so we get this.
PAULINK
I microwave steaks.
I was going to but at this point i'd rather not drag this on. All I can say is while I do not see eye to eye I can respect what you're saying. I think i've got a better perspective on why some people dislike Halo 4, although I think i've heard enough
I see what you're talking about, never thought about it too indepth but I can say is that to expect another major power weapon from your ordinance two times in a row sounds REALLY lucky. I don't normally get ordinances two times a match (or at least, I don't use them immediatley when I get them). Obviously what I'm saying is purely anecdotal but I haven't noticed an issue with Halo 4's power weapon placement either, something i'm generally privy to at least in Halo 3 and reach.
Syphon Filter
Member
Where is juices, i guess he got hired?
xxjuicesxx
Member
Halo is just CoD in space now.
That's why we had on map weapons before. And why plasma pistols were usually placed near starting spawns or around the map so that anyone who needed one could get it to deal with a pesky vehicle user. It was risk/reward. You take out the warthog with the risk someone MIGHT have picked up a plasma pistol, might have plasma grenades on them and it pretty much meant an instant death, but you were rewarded with the possibility of splatters, chaingun kills. But with granting everyone the ability to start with Plasma pistol and stickies, and having the ability to change classes after death, and with things like instant respawn, means that after the initial 5 seconds of getting a vehicle, I'm pretty much guaranteed that someone has a plasma pistol. I can die by your ghost splatter and literally respawn with a plasma pistol and sticky grenades possibly in front of you within seconds.
How is shooting them with your gun, using weapons or grenades not a viable option? That's Halo. Plus you have power weapons as well. Sniper rifle, rockets, Spartan laser on match etc. If anything, it's a vehicle, it's designed to take more bullets and grenades than a regular Spartan.
The Mantis is a 343 creation. It doesn't belong in Halo. It's spray and pray gun, huge splash damage rockets, low movement speed and high health mean it's basically a camping vehicle.
As for the rest. You don't see a difference in a team working together to get a power weapon and then using it, and having a team be given 2-3 every few kills over the course of a match? It's one thing to memorize that rockets spawn every 3 minutes and making the initial push or going to check if they're back. It's quite another just sitting in your base and calling it down.
And yes snipers are gonna snipe. There's a difference between getting sniper and then going to a prime location on the map and getting a few kills and moving around, or calling down a sniper and then using at will invisibility to stay on your corner of the map and getting kills. With camo and stealth, I've all but guaranteed that I'll get the initial drop on you, even with promethean vision and bullet trail, you'll still have to spawn and try and find me, plus, with the camo, any spot on the map becomes prime sniping for me. Plus, with sniper in ordnance, you can have another teammate call down a second sniper or a beam rifle or binary rifle. And you've now got two possible snipers. One may have ammo and have like triple the bullets, one may be invisible etc.
It's random, and often times is unfair. Anyways, sorry for another TL;DR...
Edit: people who've been part of the Halo community far longer than me have said the same thing many, many times and moved on. And i understand those of you who like the changes. Just know there is a large contingent of fans who don't. I wouldn't have cared if Halo was like this from the start, I wouldn't have played it as much or as long just like I don't play many other shooters. The difference is Halo was something so different and better than it is now, and I really loved playing that Halo.
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