• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT18| We're Back Baby!

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
FyreWulff said:
Well, that would be nice. But if MS is going to create an entire company and it still only focuses on one game at a time, it'd be nice if the community could build stuff without hoping 343 can budget time for it and have a place for it in matchmaking to distribute it.

Look at all the gametypes that have been made with very obtuse modding programs. Imagine if they just gave people the actual original tools and established something where they could select gametypes that bubble to the top in addition to what they do internally.
Click to expand...

Yep, stop developing Forge and go PC editing tools such as Crytek or Garry's mod etc. Look there's windows OS sales, PC sales, console sales, game sales, editing software sales etc. Hell throw in some SmartGlass integration if you like. As Garrett mentions throw in Spark/Kinect type motion/voice capture and you've got a winner. Machinima sales and viral game promotion there too.

How many Forgers or modders would pay for editing and publishing tools? A shit load that's how many. What of AGL or tourney organisers, they'd eat it up too. 343i just has to then review, polish & Q&A for matchmaking consumption. With X1 this could be done as background downloading and dynamic playlists so custom games browsers aren't required and matchmaking doesn't become a shitting ground for junk games/maps as custom browsers tend to. Such additional sales revenue could in theory offset developer made DLC to become free, this way all content created post game launch is required for all playlists. I'd hazard a guess this sales stream would exceed DLC sales anyhow.

More power to gamers, less work for developers and all the benefits of the X1/matchmaking architecture. Seems like a no brainer IMO.
 
A

aHebrewMenagerie

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
More power to gamers, less work for developers and all the benefits of the X1/matchmaking architecture. Seems like a no brainer IMO.
Click to expand...

Actually, that's not quite right. If anything, it would make things much, MUCH harder for devs, because they would have to not only find a way to make their dev tools ready for general consumption, which is hard in it's own right because it's mainly 3rd party tools for map design, but you also have to find some sort of way that you can upload it to your xbox, which is going to be a cheaters heaven, if they find out some way to do that. It's one thing to be able to modify AI paths in forge, all that sounds some what feasible, but what you're asking for is a Halo Engine SDK, which will never, EVER happen.
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
PentinantTangent said:
Actually, that's not quite right. If anything, it would make things much, MUCH harder for devs, because they would have to not only find a way to make their dev tools ready for general consumption, which is hard in it's own right because it's mainly 3rd party tools for map design, but you also have to find some sort of way that you can upload it to your xbox, which is going to be a cheaters heaven, if they find out some way to do that. It's one thing to be able to modify AI paths in forge, all that sounds some what feasible, but what you're asking for is a Halo Engine SDK, which will never, EVER happen.
Click to expand...

You may be correct but I'm not suggesting allowing coding or altering the engine itself. 343i would retain a review process before live publish too so they have the opportunity to inspect content creations. A loyalty system similar to community cartographers would be fairly easy to implement as well. It's all based on the implementation and processes as to how far or how much is allowed or locked away.

A full custom games browser goes against matchmaking and won't happen IMO. A full SDK is too far just as you post about. However a middleware system similar to the tools in use internally by developers that is polished for consumption and closed off somewhat for security etc is the ideal target.

You could even allow keyboard and mouse inputs on the console with a separate sale of editing software away from the game. It's far quicker to create with a K+M than Forging with a controller.

Internally they'll already have such tools running at 50-80% of such capacity e.g. Grognok over at Bungie.
 
gAg CruSh3r

gAg CruSh3r

Member
Toddler said:
Me and my friends talk about our old LAN parties all the time, but no one wants to tear down their entertainment center or yank their 60' HDTV off the wall and tote it over to each other's house to play. Besides, playing on HDTVs isn't really ideal since Halo CE was built to be played in 4:3 anyway. So I want to build a Halo cabinet.

Thing is, CRT/SD TVs aren't as easy to come by (here in the States at least) as they used to be. Goodwill, Salvation Army, local classifieds, nothing worth perusing. That's when I started wondering about Halo PC.

I've got a local PC builder that sells recycled PCs that I could use for cheap, but I've never played it on the PC before. Anyone here give it a try? Pros/cons? And what about the aspect ratio? Still the same 4:3 as the console version?
Click to expand...

I still LAN with my friends. We all bring a small monitor or tv but we play Halo
4
. Monitors are easier to use then TVs and if you can find a big modem hub then that is best for connecting to other consoles.
 
A

aHebrewMenagerie

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
You may be correct but I'm not suggesting allowing coding or altering the engine itself. 343i would retain a review process before live publish too so they have the opportunity to inspect content creations. A loyalty system similar to community cartographers would be fairly easy to implement as well. It's all based on the implementation and processes as to how far or how much is allowed or locked away.

A full custom games browser goes against matchmaking and won't happen IMO. A full SDK is too far just as you post about. However a middleware system similar to the tools in use internally by developers that is polished for consumption and closed off somewhat for security etc is the ideal target.

You could even allow keyboard and mouse inputs on the console with a separate sale of editing software away from the game. It's far quicker to create with a K+M than Forging with a controller.

Internally they'll already have such tools running at 50-80% of such capacity e.g. Grognok over at Bungie.
Click to expand...

You're theoretically right, but I just don't see any instance where 343 creates such an expanded feature like that for something that so few people will use.
 
Ozzy Onya A2Z

Ozzy Onya A2Z

Member
PentinantTangent said:
You're theoretically right, but I just don't see any instance where 343 creates such an expanded feature like that for something that so few people will use.
Click to expand...

Do you think that is less work or more work than creating Forge? Do you think the quality output is worth the less/more work involved? Do you think this system is better than a manual developer driven playlist/DLC creation process we have now and in the past?

I think the costs/time would be comparable but I think the net results benefit the game, community, consumer satisfaction, customisation, content release cadence and population longevity far more.
 
A

aHebrewMenagerie

Member
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
Do you think that is less work or more work than creating Forge? Do you think the quality output is worth the less/more work involved? Do you think this system is better than a manual developer driven playlist/DLC creation process we have now and in the past?

I think the costs/time would be comparable but I think the net results benefit the game, community, consumer satisfaction, customisation, content release cadence and population longevity far more.
Click to expand...

What you're describing, with face capture and everything else, FUCK YES, it would be more work than creating forge. With forge, you are spawning objects and changing some numerical values around, with what you are describing, it would be bug city, animations (especially if they are going to be 60fps) take up A LOT of space. Fuck yeah, it'd be cool, but developing an SDK (which is what you're describing) is almost as difficult as creating a game in itself.
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
Revisiting Halo 3 brought back all the feelings of anger that I once knew and loved.

-Terrible spawning
-Grenades that make nukes blush
-Randoms are fucking abysmal at times, playing against a organized team when you have teammates that shoot you in the back of the head is hate fuel
-Lag can give people Neo like powers

There are a lot of good aspects of Halo 3 as well, but now I remember why I preferred CoD 4 back in 2007/2008. Halo Reach and Halo 4 shoud've been a refined Halo 3 experience with new gameplay ideas and philosophies. Halo 3's DNA is fantastic, but the issues Halo 3 has are still really really bad.
 
S

Syphon Filter

Member
MormaPope said:
Revisiting Halo 3 brought back all the feelings of anger that I once knew and loved.

-Terrible spawning
-Grenades that make nukes blush
-Randoms are fucking abysmal at times, playing against a organized team when you have teammates that shoot you in the back of the head is hate fuel
-Lag can give people Neo like powers

There are a lot of good aspects of Halo 3 as well, but now I remember why I preferred CoD 4 back in 2007/2008. Halo Reach and Halo 4 shoud've been a refined Halo 3 experience with new gameplay ideas and philosophies. Halo 3's DNA is fantastic, but the issues Halo 3 has are still really really bad.
Click to expand...

lol
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
Syphon Filter said:
lol
Click to expand...

The way some people talk about Halo 3 altered my mind on how I actually felt while playing it long ago, the way some people post it would seem Halo 3 is almost a flawless masterpiece with absolutely no questionable technical issues or design.

Defect said:
What? Maps with Dynamic Spawns are fucking terrible.
Click to expand...

Naw dude, spawning someone right next to the entire enemy team when the enemy team has most of the power weapons is clean and fun design.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
MormaPope said:
The way some people talk about Halo 3 altered my mind on how I actually felt while playing it long ago, the way some people post it would seem Halo 3 is almost a flawless masterpiece with absolutely no questionable technical issues or design.



Naw dude, spawning someone right next to the entire enemy team when the enemy team has most of the power weapons is clean and fun design.
Click to expand...

It has flaws and plenty of them, but it's still my favorite Halo game and my favorite FPS of all time.
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
Fracas said:
It has flaws and plenty of them, but it's still my favorite Halo game and my favorite FPS of all time.
Click to expand...

That's perfectly fine, there is nothing wrong with that. The single player is phenomenal, and the features in Halo 3 multiplayer back in 2007 smoked the features CoD 4 had. But man, Halo 3 multiplayer is on the edge of "this is really fun" and "I'm never playing another match again".
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
MormaPope said:
Revisiting Halo 3 brought back all the feelings of anger that I once knew and loved.

-Terrible spawning
-Grenades that make nukes blush
-Randoms are fucking abysmal at times, playing against a organized team when you have teammates that shoot you in the back of the head is hate fuel
-Lag can give people Neo like powers

There are a lot of good aspects of Halo 3 as well, but now I remember why I preferred CoD 4 back in 2007/2008. Halo Reach and Halo 4 shoud've been a refined Halo 3 experience with new gameplay ideas and philosophies. Halo 3's DNA is fantastic, but the issues Halo 3 has are still really really bad.
Click to expand...

What+is+this+I+don+t+even+_c894999d0f257caf232c8bea3bb1c609.jpg
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
I really miss Reach's line of sight considerations for spawns while playing H3 now

Getting shot 2 seconds after spawning is not fun. A lot of H3 maps could have used another spawnpoint pass.
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
FUNKNOWN iXi said:
What+is+this+I+don+t+even+_c894999d0f257caf232c8bea3bb1c609.jpg
Click to expand...

Don't know what you're implying or saying. The grenades in Halo 3 have moderate range, however, there is very little leeway for how much damage you get from grenades. You either get slightly peppered or get blown the fuck up. Reach also had nuke nades, but in Reach it felt easier to predict how much damage you would receive from a blast. In Halo 3 a grenade that looks non threatening can take your entire shield away.

Some of you need to post actual thoughts in these discussions instead of a 'lol' or a pic response. I don't know stances by default.
 
P

Prinz Eugn

Member
Halo 3 nades seem non-threatening and are pretty powerful (compared to 4, it's amazing how man more there are when everyone can pick them up off bodies), but Reach nades both seem more powerful and are more powerful (one can kill, bigger splash damage range IIRC). Interestingly Halo 3 does not use controller vibrate for nade explosions for whatever reason as far as I can tell.
 
D

daedalius

Member
MormaPope said:
Some of you need to post actual thoughts in these discussions instead of a 'lol' or a pic response. I don't know stances by default.
Click to expand...

You're expecting far too much.

Prinz Eugn said:
Halo 3 nades seem non-threatening and are pretty powerful (compared to 4, it's amazing how man more there are when everyone can pick them up off bodies), but Reach nades both seem more powerful and are more powerful (one can kill, bigger splash damage range IIRC). Interestingly Halo 3 does not use controller vibrate for nade explosions for whatever reason as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

Dat feedback
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Syphon Filter said:
Not exactly good. PS3 took years to finally get figured out. Even then it[xbo] just doesn't have the power to do 1080p nearly as much as PS4 would.
Click to expand...

PS3 took years to figure out because it had a processing architecture that was unlike anything else out there. I don't think there is a PS3 level issue on either of these consoles.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
Fracas said:
CBOAT bringing some good news.

He said the Xbox One's ESRAM is a handicap for now, but will be worked out in the future comparable to the PS3's CELL. Good to hear.
Click to expand...

I don't exactly get why the embedded RAM is being treated as such a big deal. The Xbox 360 had EDRAM, something like 10MB as I recall. I find it hard to believe developers suddenly don't know what to do to address it. Whether or not that makes it harder to develop than the PS4 is certainly a valid consideration; but I doubt it was ever going to be a Cell issue here.
 
M

Madness

Member
Tashi said:
Oh thank god!!!!
Click to expand...

Not really that great news, it sounds like an 'it gets better'. But it means ps4 will get better as well.

PS3 was the stronger console in a sense and it took what almost the entire gen for multiplatform games to look/play better on PS3.

And yet Xbox One is the weaker console, the one harder to develop for, and is $100 more.
 
N

Nowise10

Member
I haven't played Halo 4 is awhile now but I was wondering did they ever make the Resistor armor mod that was exclusive to the Champions bundle, unlocked for everyone like they said they would back in July?
 
U

User 73706

Banned
H

HTupolev

Member
Fuchsdh said:
I don't exactly get why the embedded RAM is being treated as such a big deal. The Xbox 360 had EDRAM, something like 10MB as I recall. I find it hard to believe developers suddenly don't know what to do to address it. Whether or not that makes it harder to develop than the PS4 is certainly a valid consideration; but I doubt it was ever going to be a Cell issue here.
Click to expand...
If anything, the 360's eDRAM looks more difficult at a glance. It's more extreme in design; smaller relative to expected use resolutions, but absurdly high bandwidths. The shaders could communicate with the render output units over a 32GB/s bus, but the theoretical bandwidth between the render outputs and the eDRAM was a damned ridiculous 256GB/s. You might notice that this is higher than the next-gen numbers that get thrown about. Those numbers are the result of the eDRAM having been designed to make the 360 a multisampling BEAST, though retrospectively we know that the size of the eDRAM pool was a massive hindrance to that dream. The bandwidth-starved but larger-pool PS3 wound up keeping up just fine with the 360 in terms of resolutions and multisampling.

The XBO's 32MB is larger relative to a 1080p buffer than the 360's 10MB is relative to a 720p buffer, and the XBO is apparantly capable of letting its buffer bleed over into the main DDR3 pool (the pixels in DDR3 would be a little more expensive to interact with, but it means that going a little over 32MB doesn't force you to screw yourself with tiling).
Of course, we live in an era where some developers love to be able to use gigantic G-buffers in deferred engines. Supposedly KZ:SF uses something crazy like 80MB of render targets for each frame, even though classically the buffers for 1080p "ought to" be fittable into 32MB. That sort of design could get a little painful on XBO.
 
C

Caja 117

Member
Nice Custom Halo 3 going on snipedown twitch channel, Roy and Ace in the other team, other Pro Enable and Elimite. If anyone is interested.
 
H

heckfu

Banned
Ozzy Onya A2Z said:
https://waypointprod.blob.core.windows.net/blogfilestore/storage/blogs/headlines/2013/10/24/frank.gif[img]

Someone had to post it here![/QUOTE]

no they didn't.

[quote="Tashi, post: 87264415"][URL="http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2013/10/23/The-Halo-Bulletin-102313.aspx"]http://blogs.halowaypoint.com/Headlines/post/2013/10/23/The-Halo-Bulletin-102313.aspx[/URL]

New Bulletin. Ricochet Contest finalists announced.[/QUOTE]

are you hired yet?
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Sketchy twitter rumor- Halo no longer considered a top flagship at Xbox, next Halo game has half the budget of Infinite, will determine fate of series
2 3 4 5
219
21K
Angry_Megalodon replied
Halo Infinite Firefight Announced - December 5th
News 2
98
9K
twilo99 replied
IGN: Phil Spencer Has Now Been Head of Xbox for 10 Years; We Look Back at His First Decade
Opinion Analysis 2 3
130
11K
ZehDon replied
Phil Spencer Has Now Been Head of Xbox for 10 Years; We Look Back at His First Decade
4
968
Oppoi replied
Amazon is partnering up with Xbox to deliver Xbox Cloud Gaming via Fire TV devices
News 2 3
142
10K
DaGwaphics replied
Top Bottom