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Halo |OT18| We're Back Baby!
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I honestly hope the Mantis doesn't return in the Next Halo. Such a weird vehicle that doesn't belong in Halo
YourExWife
Member
But then how else will Prinz Eugn (our resident Mantis specialist) carry us to victory every game?
Prinz Eugn
Member
Awwww yeah
I think it's fine in multiplayer. It's more balanced than the Scorpion or Banshee, at least, and I mean, there's weirder vehicles in Halo already (all the purple floaty and/or flying things).
Wierd isn't the issue. It's a giant camping machine.
YourExWife
Member
ehhh, it's pretty easy to kill, so it's mostly a giant assist/defense machine. Scorpions and banshees are waaaaayyyyy more broken, especially in terms of camping and destructibility.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
What vehicle isn't easy to kill in Halo 4? You spawn with sticky nades and Plasma Pistols if you want. Vehicle gameplay is ruined. The Mantis would have been broken and over-powered as fuck in any other Halo game.
YourExWife
Member
Except, even after the balance update, the Mantis is not very powerful offensively. Whereas, in good hands, the banshee is nigh indestructible and the scorpion can kill like 5 people before a PP even touches it.
User 73706
Banned
I'd give the Mantis another chance in a balanced vehicle metagame before we write it off.
Well, as long as it's given proper physics, too. As-is, ramming a Mantis with a Chopper would probably create a black hole.
Well, as long as it's given proper physics, too. As-is, ramming a Mantis with a Chopper would probably create a black hole.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Yeah, it's big and scary but your target has to either be really close or really, really stupid. It's a paper tiger unless you have someone really competent driving it.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
The problem is with its defensive options; it's just a boring vehicle that leads to boring gameplay.
I'd like to see them make a smaller, faster, more agile Mantis. Give it thrusters like the AA and remove the shields too. Something more fun than a campy Tank that's extremely easy to keep alive. A Titanfall Titan, for example. As a matter of fact, make the Mantis first person controls too with a little HUD indicator when enemies are almost within jacking distance.
I spit out fiyaaa - Making a better Halo.
Sounds SO much better than what we have now.
Turns out, that was the original design too! Then they scrapped it!
It's really not. It goes against a lot of key components of Halo vehicle design. For example, ghosts, warthog, mongoose. They are primarily movement vehicles, to get across distance quickly or transport troops, recover flag carriers etc. They have a little firepower, and aren't really that armored. Their advantage is their speed and splatter ability. Then you look at scorpion, it's has slow movement, it fires slow, and has high armor because it's so slow.
Then you look at the Mantis. It's the ultimate camp vehicle. It has a devastating turret that facilitates spray and pray gameplay, and those ridiculous rockets with high splash damage. You can even charge them up and lay waste to what's in front. It is near impossible to get close to it to board, and has a high radius melee attack as well. And it actually traverses distance quicker than a scorpion or wraith, while having such high health. It doesn't even provide any transport for other troops. So what happens is, any map with a mantis, take Valhalla/Ragnarok for example, it just stays primarily on side of the base, and is near impossible to destroy. Even a less skilled player will easily get a killing spree before he's downed. Because of the melee stomp, even using plasma pistol is dangerous in case it recovers.
Paired up with Survivor and Wheelman and it just breaks the gameplay.
Edit: not to say scorpion or gauss hogs are any better. As for Banshee, I think it needs to be armored less. It was always a pester vehicle to me. Sort of like a flying ghost. Get around quickly, maybe change its Banshee bomb to an EMP bomb so that it just strips shields like the plasma pistol as opposed to an explosion like an FRC.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
That's actually a really good idea. Make it shoot Power Drain blasts that you have to clean up by switching to your guns. Shit son, balance. If it can disable vehicles, maybe give it a little arch so there's a skill curve to shooting it.
YourExWife
Member
There's so much wrong with this post, I don't know how to even start a coherent reply, so enjoy this gif.
Banshee bomb needs to be completely removed from MP, its evasive bullshit as well. Its armor isn't the issue. It could be flimsy as paper, but you still can't shoot it with even a slightly skilled pilot. The rest of your points only apply if you are playing absolute morons.
Also, vehicles were basically unkillable in previous games without Lasers/Rockets. PP on spawn is still stupid. Survivor makes all vehicle gameplay shitty and risk-less, not just the Mantis.
Also, vehicles were basically unkillable in previous games without Lasers/Rockets. PP on spawn is still stupid. Survivor makes all vehicle gameplay shitty and risk-less, not just the Mantis.
SHIFTYkiwi
Member
Decided to try and finish off my last 3, ODST achievements.
Maybe next time
Maybe next time
/Year
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Mantis turrets are like the Halo 3 BR for vehicles.
Mantis Rockets do not have high splash damage. You can shoot them one foot from someone and they'll have full health.. lol
Other than that, any competent Mantis user can stay alive for a long time so I agree with you there.
EDIT:
something something shitty inconsistent weapons except SMG vs Banshee something something
Halo just needs better options in better placements with better executions.
Reach Grenade Launcher.
YourExWife
Member
Also, it's only useable as a space control vehicle on non-infinity gametypes and even then your team needs to be better at Halo anyway so you stay alive longer. This is like bitching about zergs not having anti-air in early game SCII. It's a case of this-is-only-a-problem-for-bronze-league.
But yes, with a good team AND a good driver, Mantis can stay alive for long periods. But its damage output is likely to be minimal compared to someone with a Light Rifle. Conversely, with a good team, the enemy Mantis doesn't live long at all and kills little-to-nothing. The SAW is more threatening than a Mantis, as is a gauss (we agree here, even though aiming it is much harder now), a beam rifle, a binary, a sniper, basically every power weapon.
Prinz Eugn
Member
TL;DR: What FUNKNOWN iXi said.
It's not my ideal vehicle (lower health and more explicit support functions would be interesting), but I don't think it breaks gameplay, insofar as Halo 4 can be considered functional. The Scorpion on Hemorrhage in Reach, now that broke gameplay.
If you think that turret is powerful and the rockets have huge splash damage, I don't think you've used it enough. Likewise, it has such a huge hitbox that it's easily pinged from across the map, or lasered, or plasma pistoled. Plasma pistol freeze time is so long even with wheelman that you can just freeze it again as you walk up, which also makes stomp largely irrelevant. It doesn't have the capability to respond effectively at range since the turret has enormous spread and the rockets have significant travel time... and a long reload (and some spread of their own). Long range kills are either lucky or against people standing still. Essentially, it has mediocre speed, high-ish armor (but dat hitbox and shield recharge), and a short effective range.
Again, I'm not sure if you've used it much, but on Ragnarok, a Mantis is easy pickings by the team that controls the middle, which can just shoot it to death from cover even if they don't have a laser. Crossing the middle without support, the Mantis is just a huge target and gets melted. In the middle, it can be easily flanked or just sniped as it pops it's big stupid torso over. It requires team support and competent use to be very effective against non-BK's, which I believe is how things should be.
Survivor and Wheelman? Well, yep, they're super dumb, but they're super dumb for the other vehicles, too.
Decided to try and finish off my last 3, ODST achievements.
Maybe next time/Year
I did all of those solo on heroic. Only takes about 40 minutes or something by yourself
Maybe I haven't played in months, could be basing most of my thoughts on how it was back then. I didn't mean to edit the second post, I just felt what's the point in discussing anymore. Just feel it was a shitty addition to big team battle and to the vehicle repertoire in the game.
Worse than BF3? Haven't had a chance to play it yet.
...
God damn at those PS4 sales in North America. 1 Million?! Perhaps now is the best time to jump ship from Xbox if you are going to do it. User base is certainly going to be there.
I still have no idea what console I'm going to buy first. PS4 just looks so good. But the games on X1 are pulling me in.
It's a shitty vehicle used in shitty maps with shitty loadouts, abilities and perks mixed in. It's all awful and leads to boring, frustrating gameplay. A decent driver can sit in Ragnarok on either side, or near turrett/bubble side, and just rack up assists or splash rockets at oncoming vehicles.
BTB has gotten a ton of bad ideas for years (and removed asymmetric maps in the process). Mantis is certainly one of them.
MrGreencastle
Member
It's going to be a long week. While you all are going to be playing new consoles, I'll be playing Zelda and Mario =] I'll jump in for Destiny. I'm hopinh to hear a bit on Halo presence for Xbox One soon, though
Perfect!
Edit: 1 week till next gen start in europe... my backlog is still huge as hell
Ahah nice.
What is it?
Someone else said he posted "cartoon spoilers"
I'm guessing Legend of Korra
3D World looks amazing.
Decided to try and finish off my last 3, ODST achievements.
Maybe next time/Year
Oy man, if you want any teammates for the ODST achievements give me a call. I love doing them and with more than two people they're pretty easy.
As for the Mantis, I think part of the issue here is you have to disentangle the vehicle's issues with the map's. It's no secret that most of Halo 4's maps have very restricted vehicle paths--the Mantis "feels" boxed in on maps like Ragnarock and Meltdown because you basically only have two "lanes" to channel it through. That passively deters moving too far out.
If you strip plasmas and pistols from load outs and open up the map, a Mantis player is going to feel more empowered to venture further away from a base and actually be used for offense.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
I still have one more vidmaster challenge to complete
I need the 4 players on the mongoose and rockets one. I'm always down for achievements ...I still have one more vidmaster challenge to complete
Are you a member of TrueAchievements? It's really easy to set up lobbies and playdates for achievements on there. It's definitely the easiest way I've found to grab achievements once they're out of season. Friend me on there and give me a ping and I can join your gaming sessions too.
Always down to help with Halo achievements (I'm 100% on everything except Wars at the moment.)
gAg CruSh3r
Member
No I'm not. I am not super crazy about achievements but I do really like my Halo achievements tho haha. Halo Wars is a pain to get achievements to me, I need two more achievements in Halo 3, and I need some from all the other games too.
I still have one more vidmaster challenge to complete
Me and my friend can help you out with that Vidmaster achievement. I love that one with the mongoose and rockets, I've only done it once back in 2009, and had a blast.
It never really felt like there was a map built around the Mantis. Kind of like how the Scorpion shat up most maps but worked well on maps that were made with the assumption it'd be there by default, like
Waterworks- intentionally designed to limit the Scorpion's firing lines while allowing vehicle flow. The center bridge that goes \___/ allows the scorpion to traverse to the other side of the map, but does not allow to fire to the other side of the map, and it's completely exposed in the middle from hijackers above it
Containment - giant center hill means scorpions can only really fire on their half of the map, the trench under the top of the hill let infantry get to the other side of the map while avoiding the scorpion, and also there was rockets. everywhere.
Sandtrap - the rolling hills force a firing line horizon on most parts of the map. Shell travel time did the rest. Open doors did not lead directly into the bases, but were either L shaped or had a column between them and the inner areas to prevent the scorpion from blindfiring into bases.
Avalanche - Exaggerated rolling hills, the mancannons threw you higher than the scorpion could look up, the rock arch over the middle bend prevented scorpions from shooting air vehicles and mancannoners on the other side of the map, the entrance to the center cave was L shaped to prevent it from blindfiring into the center cave
Boneyard - used Waterworks style traversal paths under the ship to control the scorpion. Actually this map almost balanced every vehicle in the game, besides poorly set up gametypes like default 1-Flag. Boneyard controls the vehicles so much it even balances the Banshee.. if you ever check a banshee killgrinder's stats on Bungie.net, they'll always have a very low amount of banshee kills on Boneyard.
Then they brought Vahalla across to Halo 4 directly from Halo 3 with nothing to account for the Mantis for it, even though it was put forward as a featured map for the Mantis.. well, they didn't change Valhalla to account for -anything-, but especially the Mantis.
Waterworks- intentionally designed to limit the Scorpion's firing lines while allowing vehicle flow. The center bridge that goes \___/ allows the scorpion to traverse to the other side of the map, but does not allow to fire to the other side of the map, and it's completely exposed in the middle from hijackers above it
Containment - giant center hill means scorpions can only really fire on their half of the map, the trench under the top of the hill let infantry get to the other side of the map while avoiding the scorpion, and also there was rockets. everywhere.
Sandtrap - the rolling hills force a firing line horizon on most parts of the map. Shell travel time did the rest. Open doors did not lead directly into the bases, but were either L shaped or had a column between them and the inner areas to prevent the scorpion from blindfiring into bases.
Avalanche - Exaggerated rolling hills, the mancannons threw you higher than the scorpion could look up, the rock arch over the middle bend prevented scorpions from shooting air vehicles and mancannoners on the other side of the map, the entrance to the center cave was L shaped to prevent it from blindfiring into the center cave
Boneyard - used Waterworks style traversal paths under the ship to control the scorpion. Actually this map almost balanced every vehicle in the game, besides poorly set up gametypes like default 1-Flag. Boneyard controls the vehicles so much it even balances the Banshee.. if you ever check a banshee killgrinder's stats on Bungie.net, they'll always have a very low amount of banshee kills on Boneyard.
Then they brought Vahalla across to Halo 4 directly from Halo 3 with nothing to account for the Mantis for it, even though it was put forward as a featured map for the Mantis.. well, they didn't change Valhalla to account for -anything-, but especially the Mantis.
FUBAR McDangles
Member
gAg CruSh3r
Member
Alright I will let you know a good time for me or something
I actually saw I had two vidmaster left but I think the other one is easy because it's the firefight challenge. Now I need to get the motivation to get my ODST game disc out ha.Went down for Korra :\
Alright I will let you know a good time for me or something
Uh, are you referring to the "Endure" achievement? Because that's pretty difficult, if only because of the net code.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
Oh shoot :/ it is. Well we can at least get the Déjà Vu achievement?
I can also help out since I need it on my new account.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Alright I will let you know a good time for me or something
That damn Endure achievement.. My first attempt was hilarious because before we started, one of my friends was the type to run in and die a lot, so I was like "I don't know if we should be doinggggg it with himmm.. I can see him being the last one alive and dying right before we beat it lol."
So what happens?
He's the last guy alive, literally on the last Grunt to get the achievement. As he's running up the central staircase a Fuel Rod comes flying right at him, blowing him up and denying us the achievement after ~3 hours! We tried again the next day and got it, but LOL I can't believe how that happened.
Yeah that one was frustrating, but great memories. We had a similar situation where it was guys I knew plus a random person we found online, he wasted a lot of early lives so it came down to the final wave of Brute Chieftans, we all get wasted by the hammer or ricocheting weapons, and he dies right before the last Brute gets stuck. Second time we got disconnected the last grunt wave, third time was the charm.
CoD Ghosts' ending was quite Meh
Spoilers to follow:
Whatever, I guess we'll see what is gonna happen with this series.
Spoilers to follow:
Why the fuck will Rorke not die? I understand wanting to give it a sequel ala Modern Warfare but still. Does he solely run the Federation? Is there not a boss above him? Could that alone not give us a sequel? Also, I'm surprised Riley didn't die and I don't want Ghosts 2 to have the cliche of do I kill my brother or don't I?
Whatever, I guess we'll see what is gonna happen with this series.
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