Support NeoGAF

[Risen]

I fear this. Sprint is bad and allows people to make terrible decisions in game and get away with it.

I'm hoping if it really is a wide spread feature on every spartan, that there is a way to turn off sprint entirely.

The flip side of that is that it speeds up the game. It forces faster decisions and better teamwork which adds a layer of skill. That very same person that makes a bad decision and tries to get away with it can get crapped on by a team of fast thinkers with good team work as they have the equal ability to push quickly. It's a wash in my mind. And if it is a wash, and it still speeds up the game, I'll take the faster game play.

That's not to say I don't currently like say MLG with no sprint... I'm just very open about sprint being a default option.

Based on Frankie's comments though, I'm pretty confident that there will be something for everyone when it comes to this type of thing. He has repeatedly said that those that prefer a more traditional Halo will still be happy.

 

[Garrett 2U]

The flip side of that is that it speeds up the game. It forces faster decisions and better teamwork which adds a layer of skill. That very same person that makes a bad decision and tries to get away with it can get crapped on by a team of fast thinkers with good team work as they have the equal ability to push quickly. It's a wash in my mind. And if it is a wash, and it still speeds up the game, I'll take the faster game play.

That's not to say I don't currently like say MLG with no sprint... I'm just very open about sprint being a default option.

Based on Frankie's comments though, I'm pretty confident that there will be something for everyone when it comes to this type of thing. He has repeatedly said that those that prefer a more traditional Halo will still be happy.

I think in Halo Reach people use sprint as a tool of escape rather than to get into battle faster.

 

[Overdoziz]

Agreed, but is the problem sprint or is the problem melee?

Edit: ^ but did you not have sprint also? I fail to see the problem.

Even without sprint, if he gets away, do you not have an equal chance of chasing?

A guy who is sprinting away doesn't have to shoot. A person who is chasing has to shoot which is not possible while sprinting. See where this becomes a problem?

 

[ncsuDuncan]

I'd prefer melee be nerfed either way. I've always felt that it should be the weakest side of the golden tripod, since it's the easiest to use. Either reduce the damage of each melee or increase the delay between htem.

If that doesn't happen, just prevent players from being able to melee while sprinting (i.e. add a brief animation delay).

If you press melee, you'll stop sprinting but you have to press it again to actually melee.

 

[Hydranockz]

A guy who is sprinting away doesn't have to shoot. A person who is chasing has to shoot which is not possible while sprinting. See where this becomes a problem?

Touché Thanks for making that clear.

 

[Risen]

I think in Halo Reach people use sprint as a tool of escape rather than to get into battle faster.

Patently false... they do both. Sprinting off of initial spawn, and every spawn thereafter to get into the appropriate position for the team is a constant for good players.

Similarly, sprinting to the objective or to take position for the next round of spawns when the opposing team is dead is a constant as well.

A guy who is sprinting away doesn't have to shoot. A person who is chasing has to shoot which is not possible while sprinting. See where this becomes a problem?

Good players don't chase BK.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Based on Frankie's comments though, I'm pretty confident that there will be something for everyone when it comes to this type of thing. He has repeatedly said that those that prefer a more traditional Halo will still be happy.

I hope he mean happy with their design choices, not with the game type flexibility.
I think it is very important that Halo 4 is a game, rather than a sandbox like Reach.

Patently false... they do both. Sprinting off of initial spawn, and every spawn thereafter to get into the appropriate position for the team is a constant for good players.

Similarly, sprinting to the objective or to take position for the next round of spawns when the opposing team is dead is a constant as well.

Enabling players to mindlessly sprint towards objectives or points of map control isn't necessarily good competitive design...

 

[Overdoziz]

Good players don't chase BK.

Good players pace their shots BK.

 

[Risen]

Good players pace their shots BK.

Not with ZB and good aim.

 

[Trey]

remember that there was a time where we thought Armor Abilities were a good idea.

They still are. Just need a proper implementation.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

What if you had a movement penalty after using sprint?

i.e. for every second you spend sprinting at 120% movement speed, you get half a second of 90% movement speed afterwards

 

[Fracas]

Over, check your PM's. I have pretty much all the clips done with current-ish TU settings (no bleedthrough). There is a problem with your map, though. Lots of problems with Headhunter. When someone is killed at the sniper spawns, all their skulls hit the ceiling and are vaporized. The same may be true for the bases, I can't recall.

After playing that map so much though, I have to say, it's probably my favorite map in Reach.

 

[Risen]

What if you had a movement penalty after using sprint?

i.e. for every second you spend sprinting at 120% movement speed, you get half a second of 90% movement speed afterwards

Over-thinker

 

[Overdoziz]

Not with ZB and good aim.

Why do you think MLG doesn't have sprint anymore?

 

[Hydranockz]

What if you had a movement penalty after using sprint?

i.e. for every second you spend sprinting at 120% movement speed, you get half a second of 90% movement speed afterwards

So a 'catch your breath' penalty? I could dig that.

 

[Risen]

Why do you think MLG doesn't have sprint anymore?

Because it wasn't popular.

There is still a version of MLG in the list with Sprint. The Pit 5 Flag plays great with Sprint. The pacing is much closer to Flag Onslaught in H3 where you can be dangerous very quickly off spawn.

Having 5 flag with no Sprint and the game crawls in comparison.

 

[Overdoziz]

Over, check your PM's. I have pretty much all the clips done with current-ish TU settings (no bleedthrough). There is a problem with your map, though. Lots of problems with Headhunter. When someone is killed at the sniper spawns, all their skulls hit the ceiling and are vaporized. The same may be true for the bases, I can't recall.

After playing that map so much though, I have to say, it's probably my favorite map in Reach.

Thanks for that, I'll PM you in a minute. I'll adjust the killzones a bit so the skulls don't disappear as easily. There's not really much else that I can do about that, though.

 

[Trey]

What if you had a movement penalty after using sprint?

i.e. for every second you spend sprinting at 120% movement speed, you get half a second of 90% movement speed afterwards

No. Make any penalty during the sprinting, not after.

 

[Hydranockz]

No. Make any penalty during the sprinting, not after.

What? How would that even work?

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Xand, you said you would compliment me on my greatness, you have exactly 1 hour or else!

 

[reggie]

.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I don't like the "something for everyone" mentality that has been thrown around in regards to certain issues, seems like a recipe for disaster. If Reach proved anything, its that inconsistent gametypes across different playlists does not work. It's a complete mess, you're never going to please everyone anyway, and it just shows 343 aren't confident in their own design choices. Either go all out, or not at all.

Agreed. The game should be the developers vision, for better or for worse. The massive fragmentation makes for a miserable matchmaking experience, and the likelihood of the game being "jack of all trades, master of none" is very high.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I don't like the "something for everyone" mentality that has been thrown around in regards to certain issues, seems like a recipe for disaster. If Reach proved anything, its that inconsistent gametypes across different playlists does not work. It's a complete mess, you're never going to please everyone anyway, and it just shows 343 aren't confident in their own design choices. Either go all out, or not at all.

Game should play like SSX, remove the guns, replace the vehicles with snowboards and replace the maps with mountains. Game will be 100% more fun that way.

No but really, I personally LOVE the 'please everyone' mentality, I just dont think Reach works so well because with Reach a lot of the changes are more short term patch'es. With Halo 4 im sure they will build the game with that mentality in mind.

Xand, you said you would compliment me on my greatness, you have exactly 1 hour or else!

Pfft that was only if you got 20 million. Your weak SSX scores deserve mockery, not compliments!

 

[CyReN]

All this BK talk makes me hungry for Burger King.

 

[HigherLevel]

Not related to Halo but this is the best place to ask this.

So I remember when Marcus Lehto came back to Bungie he said he was working on a new game iirc. So does this mean Bungie has two projects now, Destiny and this other game. Or did he just mean he was working on Destiny? Also if it is a second game is it likely to be a traditional game, or something like an iOS or F2P game?

Agreed. The game should be the developers vision, for better or for worse. The massive fragmentation makes for a miserable matchmaking experience, and the likelihood of the game being "jack of all trades, master of none" is very high.

Frankie did say in the Bulletin that matchmaking would be consistent, so I assume none of the annoying fragmentation in Reach will be present in 4.

 

[squidhands]

This one does.

You're my hero for hosting these updates.

YOOOOO

anyone coming to austin for SXSW next week?

Squidhands, you going to any events? I'll be working at screenburn.

I'll probably pop around next week for a couple of shows. Jack White is gonna be in town, don't want to miss whatever he does (especially if it's this song).

as for the sprint 'penalty', something like this would be perfect. ;-)

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Pfft that was only if you got 20 million. Your weak SSX scores deserve mockery, not compliments!

I only needed one more run, you were sweatin' Bobs. You. Were. Sweatin'.

 

[zap]

Not related to Halo but this is the best place to ask this.

So I remember when Marcus Lehto came back to Bungie he said he was working on a new game iirc. So does this mean Bungie has two projects now, Destiny and this other game. Or did he just mean he was working on Destiny? Also if it is a second game is it likely to be a traditional game, or something like an iOS or F2P game?

I'm pretty sure it was a second IP, not destiny. No other details have come out about it, though I can't imagine it is a "fully" fleshed out game like Destiny promises to be, with a small team size etc.

 

[CyReN]

Reading the user comments of the IGN article of no beta leaves me with no hope in humanity.

 

[The Henery]

I hope he mean happy with their design choices, not with the game type flexibility.
I think it is very important that Halo 4 is a game, rather than a sandbox like Reach.

I don't like the "something for everyone" mentality that has been thrown around in regards to certain issues, seems like a recipe for disaster. If Reach proved anything, its that inconsistent gametypes across different playlists does not work. It's a complete mess, you're never going to please everyone anyway, and it just shows 343 aren't confident in their own design choices. Either go all out, or not at all.

Agreed with these points. We've had about ten different versions of Reach. I want a consistent vision across all major gametypes for Halo 4. I have a feeling they'll do a 'classic' playlist with BR starts and no 'perks' (for lack of a better word). It will probably have a population of about 800 and be populated exclusively by mic'd up teams of four.

 

[Hey You]

I must say that the Halo 4 info released hasn't really gotten me excited for the multiplayer at all.

I am, and it has made the wait so much harder.

All this BK talk makes me hungry for Burger King.

Mine closed down a few months ago, but now thanks to you I'm craving some too.

 

[Plywood]

I don't need a beta, I just need the coming months to be a blur.

You shouldn't have shown us anything 343, I wouldn't be eager for more!

p.s.

Spoiler

I totally would love a beta.

 

[Hitmonchan107]

Agreed. The game should be the developers vision, for better or for worse. The massive fragmentation makes for a miserable matchmaking experience, and the likelihood of the game being "jack of all trades, master of none" is very high.

The catering to different styles of play didn't happen until 343 introduced new styles of play. (Outside of community-managed playlists.) And that happened when the numbers were already low. I'm sure it'll be fine when those options are available day one on a highly anticipated sequel.

 

[Risen]

it just shows 343 aren't confident in their own design choices. .

Just awful logic and conclusion jumping...

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Times up princess. I'll deal with you tomorrow.

 

[heckfu]

I don't need a beta, I just need the coming months to be a blur.

You shouldn't have shown us anything 343, I wouldn't be eager for more!

p.s.

Spoiler

I totally would love a beta.

Well, for what it's worth...

no beta confirmed perhaps

 

[kittens]

Sprint is all kinds of problematic. Your enemy runs away, gets their shields back, orients themselves to face you (negating your situational upper hand), and/or runs towards their team mates, suddenly outnumbering you. Or their team mates sprint towards you as soon as the bullets start flying. And then the dude you kill respawns, sprints back at you, and kills you while your shields are still low.

This is a worst case scenario, obviously, but I see at least one of these things happen in every match I play.

 

[kylej]

Anyone interested in taking a group lesson from Formal at a discounted rate?

 

[Ramirez]

I was arguing with Thermight last night about how much less I rage over AA's with ZB, it was even better with bleed through, and both of these things will be in 4, so I'm pretty optimistic it won't be Reach 2.

 

[CyReN]

Anyone interested in taking a group lesson from Formal at a discounted rate?

Don't do it.

I cant tell if you are serious.

 

[FyreWulff]

The catering to different styles of play didn't happen until 343 introduced new styles of play. (Outside of community-managed playlists.) And that happened when the numbers were already low. I'm sure it'll be fine when those options are available day one on a highly anticipated sequel.

Bungie introduced Team Classic in March 2011, when there was plenty of people. SWAT, if you really want to count that too. SWAT still operates under Reach's standard rules, though.

Now we have a Classic Playlist, TU, non TU, Anniversary disc only, and Reach disc only. The BTB populations are split due to the Anniversary disc redundancy, and so are the FFA population. The game should have one vision at launch and stick with it, much like I'd wish they'd choose one Reach and go with it.

 

[Plywood]

Just awful logic and conclusion jumping...

Well, for what it's worth...

no beta confirmed perhaps

Don't worry things will get beta.

For where there is no beta there is demo. It is known.

Spoiler

Don't stop BELI343ING! Hold onto that feeling!

 

[Steelyuhas]

Not related to Halo but this is the best place to ask this.

So I remember when Marcus Lehto came back to Bungie he said he was working on a new game iirc. So does this mean Bungie has two projects now, Destiny and this other game. Or did he just mean he was working on Destiny? Also if it is a second game is it likely to be a traditional game, or something like an iOS or F2P game?

Marcus is working with a small team on a new project (not Destiny) IIRC.

The catering to different styles of play didn't happen until 343 introduced new styles of play. (Outside of community-managed playlists.) And that happened when the numbers were already low. I'm sure it'll be fine when those options are available day one on a highly anticipated sequel.

Well see, personally I would like for a largely uniform game. Which is not to say that options shouldn't be in the game, because creating different customs games and maps for different styles of play by the community is awesome, but I mean the base gameplay, and what is almost all of matchmaking playlists, I want that to be a uniform vision.

I was arguing with Thermight last night about how much less I rage over AA's with ZB, it was even better with bleed through, and both of these things will be in 4, so I'm pretty optimistic it won't be Reach 2.

One of the largest issues with AA's in Reach is that they are just far too effective abilities in relation with weapon kill time speeds and base player movement traits, so instead of augmenting the game, they dominate the game.

 

[Risen]

Sprint is all kinds of problematic. Your enemy runs away, gets their shields back, orients themselves to face you (negating your situational upper hand), and/or runs towards their team mates, suddenly outnumbering you. Or their team mates sprint towards you as soon as the bullets start flying. And then the dude you kill respawns, sprints back at you, and kills you while your shields are still low.

This is a worst case scenario, obviously, but I see at least one of these things happen in every match I play.

What I see in every part of that scenario is you doing something wrong... you either chased, didn't know the spawn, or didn't take into account the spawn by adjusting your positioning.

Negating an upper hand is done by all sorts of things... a good strafe for instance. Would you hate on the ability to strafe like you could in H2? Because in that game you could strafe the pants off someone who had the "upper hand".

Did people hate on folks who "Strongsided" away or who "Gandhi hop" online? Both negate an upper hand if done well.

 

[Overdoziz]

What I see in every part of that scenario is you doing something wrong... you either chased, didn't know the spawn, or didn't take into account the spawn by adjusting your positioning.

Sprinting makes it too easy to run away from danger. That's it. Nothing else.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Very interesting HBO, very interesting indeed.

 

[Havok]

I've grown to enjoy Sprint, but I can't tell how much of that is the mechanic itself or just that it lets me play really sloppily with no punishment.

That's probably not a good thing (though given the choice between Halo 3's slow movement speed without sprint and Reach slow speed plus sprint, I'd probably end up going with the latter).

 

[Redford]

No problem admitting that since Reach came out, I rely on sprint more than I would like.

The chasing in this game though...

 

[HigherLevel]

I don't really dislike the idea of AAs but some of them like Drop Shield, Jetpack, and Armor Lock just break the flow of the game. I don't mind sprint though so it's no big deal to me that it's coming back. I just hope whatever 343 brings in to replace AAs/Equipment is balanced and doesn't give advantages like added health or damage. I really wanna know how that system is gonna work. Come on Frankie/David, give HaloGaf the exclusive first look at that haha.

 

[Risen]

Sprinting makes it too easy to run away from danger. That's it. Nothing else.

Kittens was explaining why that was problematic...