Rand0m TAG
Member
you ccant remove double melee, ever (unless melee strength is decrease - and i dont see that happening. at least if the stopping power is their, it will make it less effective than in reach
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Halo |OT4| Trust's a Tough Thing to Come by These Days
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
you ccant remove double melee, ever (unless melee strength is decrease - and i dont see that happening. at least if the stopping power is their, it will make it less effective than in reach
Hydranockz
Member
But the stars go away once you select them. The stars never stay there even when the unlocked stuff has been used. No game keeps it.
Who are you and what have you done with the real Elzar?
The Librarian
Banned
Truth.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I dont see the problem there, thats down to player choice. Even though your gun can ping people at range, theres nothing stopping you from taking the fight closer. I personally am all for more versatile guns that allow for more player choice. I have more fun being meta in setting myself my own goals, rather than have the game dictate stipulations to me. The other direction it could go in is: it only boiling down to close range Plasma Pistol and headshot. I prefer it when the player has the freedom to do more.
I do remember Frankie responding to a question asking if you could spawn with shotgun/sniper and he just said "You won't be able to spawn with a sniper (except if Team Snipers)"*. No mention of the shotgun.
*paraphrasing
I can't imagine 343 actually allowing you to spawn with it though. The consequences would be quite horrific to say the least, especially in objective gametypes.
*paraphrasing
I can't imagine 343 actually allowing you to spawn with it though. The consequences would be quite horrific to say the least, especially in objective gametypes.
ElzarTheBam
Member
He 'comes' out for you only, would you like to see him 'father'?
bobs...onGaf
Member
At that time I took that to mean that you couldn't spawn with power weapons full stop, but what if he simply took the question literally and just decided to answer based on the Sniper? Or perhaps the Shotgun is no longer considered to be a power weapon and so they will let people spawn with it.
I really hope thats not the case, the ability to spawn with a shotgun and sprint would be horrific.
Hydranockz
Member
More player choice? You wanted one gun to rule them all last night. DMR vs BR is the choice for players but you don't like it because you'd be forced to use bloom...
ElzarTheBam
Member
I hope they did decrease the melee strength, I hate that In Reach you could melee and one-shot DMR somebody. Feels cheap and breaks the game for me.
The Librarian
Banned
It's too tempting not to use. You can have a variety in guns so long as their range is 2x scope. The PP+headshot combo works better than a gun with a 3x scope range because the tracking system on the PP forces you to get close and thus exposing you to danger.
I shouldn't have said anything originally. I don't know enough about the DMR in Halo 4 to come to any conclusions. Wait and see.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Edit: blah look lower.
Downside is though, this weapon would be the dominant choice for most players. I feel your argument should apply to all weapons, takes skill to learn and control them.I couldn't really speak loud last night, and Xand had a similar sounding but pretty different argument to me, which he kept hijacking my sentences to talk about.but yeah, in multiplayer I want one very versatile gun to rule them all, I want a gun that has good range, can be used in a variety of situations, and really opens up the battles to player freedom, a gun which good players can use well and creatively to out gun other players less skilled with that weapon. I dont want to be restricted because I chose a BR but the other dude chose a DMR, I want the gameplay to focus on player ability, not some meta rock paper scissors game decided in the main menu.
So yeah, having one versatile weapon doesnt limit player choice, it enhances it, because when it comes to gameplay theres a much larger subset of possible outcomes, than if we get a very rock paper scissors style game with pre-determined outcomes.
Hydranockz
Member
Slightly different streams of argument, whats good for the campaign sandbox is hardly going to be good for the multiplayer sandbox. That said my reason for wanting one gun to rule them all is all about player choice, I simply mean in terms of what they can do within gameplay itself rather than by what weapon they choose.
I couldn't really speak loud last night, and Xand had a similar sounding but pretty different argument to me, which he kept hijacking my sentences to talk about.
So yeah, having one versatile weapon doesnt limit player choice, it enhances it, because when it comes to gameplay theres a much larger subset of possible outcomes, than if we get a very rock paper scissors style game with pre-determined outcomes.
I mean, I understand why people would want a range of different weapons, but as far as im concerned thats all just aesthetic fluff, I dont care what the weapon looks/ sounds like, as long as the gameplay is good.
You don't want player choice then. You have it and you don't like it. You want one gun with different skins.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Just woke up and caught up. I will just say one thing and go back to lurking.
Although I loved Reach's multiplayer minus broken vehicles and armor abilities.
Der Flatulator
Member
Custom games. Spawn with any weapon... Just like all of the other Halo games... Chill
ElzarTheBam
Member
The use of the DMR can be dictated by the amount of ammunition and where it's placed right in campaign right?
What I mean by that is that in reach, it was the main weapon practically. What if the DMR's role was completely reduced, only saw it in a couple of battles or with very little ammo? It could become the needle rifle of the halo 4's campaign.
I could be very wrong here in that analogy, because personally I used the needle rifle very rarely in campaign. Therefore I'm not sure how predominant it actually was.
Of course like you said, lets wait and see.
Something like ODST limited?
bobs...onGaf
Member
I edited my post to make things clearer: (It all depends on how you define player choice, I prefer player choice in terms of allowing them to do more in the gameplay, rather than picking what starting weapon they have but having very limited rock paper scissors gameplay. Lots of different weapons in the same class doesnt lead to great player choice, one versatile weapon in each class would.)
Slightly different streams of argument, whats good for the campaign sandbox is hardly going to be good for the multiplayer sandbox. That said my reason for wanting one gun to rule them all is all about player choice, I simply mean in terms of what they can do within gameplay itself rather than by what weapon they choose.
I couldn't really speak loud last night, and Xand had a similar sounding but pretty different argument to me, which he kept hijacking my sentences to talk about.
but yeah, in multiplayer I want one very versatile gun to rule them all, I want a gun that has good range, can be used in a variety of situations, and really opens up the battles to player freedom, a gun which good players can use well and creatively to out gun other players less skilled with that weapon. I dont want to be restricted because I chose a BR but the other dude chose a DMR, I want the gameplay to focus on player ability, not some meta rock paper scissors game decided in the main menu. So yeah, having one versatile weapon doesnt limit player choice, it enhances it, because when it comes to gameplay theres a much larger subset of possible outcomes, than if we get a very rock paper scissors style game with pre-determined outcomes.
I mean sure, you can argue that player choice is all about letting the player choosing the gun they like more, and I understand why people would want a range of different weapons, but as far as im concerned thats all just aesthetic fluff, I dont care what the weapon looks/ sounds like, as long as the gameplay is good. That if all the weapons play the same, if they dont well then that just wouldn't play like Halo anyway.
DMR vs BR is going to radically change the way the game plays based on whichever one you choose, it wont be like a binary choice between the DMR and Needle Rifle or Halo 3 Carbine and BR, the way battles and players use the gun is going to be very different based on the fact they have pretty different base gameplay mechanics behind them. If the DMR is the gun that rules them all, but that means very spammy bloomtastic gameplay, I would rather not use it lol.
So really theres two arguments going on there:
1. Weapon versatility (I want the starting weapon to have good enough attributes to really open the floor to a skilled player to make interesting use of that gun.)
And
2. Base gameplay mechanics and how combat plays out, (I dont want to use the DMR with bloom because I dont like that style of base gameplay)
ElzarTheBam
Member
ODST's carbine was quite limited, right?
Personally? Yeah, felt that way.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Good way to put, I usually had to scour for more ammo, and then swap it because I couldn't find enough.
Hydranockz
Member
You're argument has zero to do with supporting player choice bobs, absolutely zero. You want a versatile gun. The DMR and the BR are versatile. You want good gameplay mechanics. The BR has mechanics you like, the DMR has mechanics you don't like.
The Halo 3 carbine was single shot, the BR was burst. Not binary choice. Different mechanics right there.
The Halo 3 carbine was single shot, the BR was burst. Not binary choice. Different mechanics right there.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Meh I have explained what player choice means to me. That might not match what your definition of player choice is but thats what I was hoping to open up discussion to, I certainly dont think my argument has zero to do with player choice, please educate me.
Hydranockz
Member
Meh I have explained what player choice means to me. That might not match what your definition of player choice is but thats what I was hoping to open up discussion to, I certainly dont think my argument has zero to do with player choice, please educate me.
How can you want player choice and only want one weapon to stand above the rest? That ceases to a choice.
DMR or BR. There is player choice. Pick the BR bobs. It's what you want. You don't want bloom.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I define player choice as giving the player more control in gameplay itself, if there has to be one main gun for that to happen then I would happily back that. Its how Halo has always been anyway.
Your saying player choice is about letting them pick what weapon they want? Your right, that is player choice, but it leads to a less interesting pre-determined rock paper scissors game where player choice within the match itself is more meaningless.
Am I just really bad at explaining my logic? Or are you pulling a Fyrewulff on me? Br is good in certain situations, DMR is good in certain situations, ultimately I have the choice to pick the BR but that limits what I can do in game.
I like you Hydra bro, but so far you haven't really presented a discussion, you have just been condescending and told me im wrong without telling me why, Im curious to see how you define player choice. <3
Im also kind of suprised, with the amount you berate KyleJ, that your argument basically boiled down to "your wrong, go use the BR if you love it so much".
Is it simply about being able to pick starting weapon? Do you want different attributes for those starting weapons? or do you want them to be skins of eachother? Skins of eachother is something we have had in almost every Halo game, but starting weapons with different attributes is something I don't like the idea of, ultimately I feel its going to be very limiting especially considering a lot of the starting guns lead to a style of combat im not a fan of. You can argue that AR users have had to suffer through that with every Halo game, but screw them.
That also doesn't make the argument for rock paper scissors style starting weapons any better for Halo.Damn, we need E3 to get here really badly. I mean, I don't mind people working with what little we have, I just don't have the patience to do that myself. I just don't see the point in putting so much thought into a theory that's got like a thousand "ifs" in it. I do enjoy reading about reasons why certain things could be good or bad, but I can't stand people being like "This is the final build, game is bad, we are doomed."
Wouldn't it be hilarious if all of the footage at E3 was as blurry and poorly done as the leak? I hope we have enough to go on after E3 to have discussions that are less uncertain about almost every aspect of the game heh.
I know nobody is this bad, but still.
Wouldn't it be hilarious if all of the footage at E3 was as blurry and poorly done as the leak?
I hope we have enough to go on after E3 to have discussions that are less uncertain about almost every aspect of the game heh.First few minutes of the E3 on stage demo is just a part of that video. Hilarious.Wouldn't it be hilarious if all of the footage at E3 was as blurry and poorly done as the leak?
The Librarian
Banned
Something I don't think I've ever done on The Oracle before:
There's a point in the level, not too far in, where you have to hold off in this room with two plasma turrets at the end and one in the middle. There are three swords lying around, so what I did was give my Elite companions one sword each, and we just went to town on the Flood. It was awesome.
There's a point in the level, not too far in, where you have to hold off in this room with two plasma turrets at the end and one in the middle. There are three swords lying around, so what I did was give my Elite companions one sword each, and we just went to town on the Flood. It was awesome.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Oh snap, he has awoken!
Blue Ninja
Member
Day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, it continues.
I agree with Bobs, I think the enjoyment comes to me when I use a superior grasp of the game mechanics to outlive my opponent, not because I chose a starting weapon that just happens to be contextually superior.
I wouldn't get satisfaction from donging a BR user who just happens to be across the map, because I'm at such an unfair advantage. People may argue differently, but I'd still say the BR and DMR cannibalise each other. Not only that but their nature as starting weapons means the frequency in which they'll overlap is most likely very high.
Luckily I suspect that at the highest level people will adopt a single weapon en masse and gravitate towards that. This still doesn't reduce the frustration that such a crutch is open to players, should they choose to use it.
For example, take The Pit and examine a confrontation between someone on the Snipe Tower and someone down at long hall. In Halo 3 such an engagement was a battle between who's got the best long range BR, in Reach it was a battle between two DMRs, now if one player has a DMR and the other holds a BR then one is more than likely going to win the dual. Purely because of weapon selection. That's not rewarding to me. It's not a reward based on a handle of play mechanics.
I wouldn't get satisfaction from donging a BR user who just happens to be across the map, because I'm at such an unfair advantage. People may argue differently, but I'd still say the BR and DMR cannibalise each other. Not only that but their nature as starting weapons means the frequency in which they'll overlap is most likely very high.
Luckily I suspect that at the highest level people will adopt a single weapon en masse and gravitate towards that. This still doesn't reduce the frustration that such a crutch is open to players, should they choose to use it.
For example, take The Pit and examine a confrontation between someone on the Snipe Tower and someone down at long hall. In Halo 3 such an engagement was a battle between who's got the best long range BR, in Reach it was a battle between two DMRs, now if one player has a DMR and the other holds a BR then one is more than likely going to win the dual. Purely because of weapon selection. That's not rewarding to me. It's not a reward based on a handle of play mechanics.
This is the E3 footage.Wouldn't it be hilarious if all of the footage at E3 was as blurry and poorly done as the leak?
I've been reading this stuff all morning, had loads of catching up to do since that leak came out
Glad you edited that, I had no idea what you meant haha.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Holy fuck I've missed a lot, now I gotta read through 5 pages to catch up.
The Real Napsta
Member
I think the leak is hilarious. Wiping the bug off the screen was such a nice touch.
ElzarTheBam
Member
bobs...onGaf
Member
Those Forgehub games where really fun, I remember Bladed totally destroying them lol. That second map we played was really weird.
I considered not accepting your FR because of the message you sent along with it
cant believe i went to bed literally minutes before this leaked. hilarious stuff. from what i could see, it looked great. a logical extension of reach, hopefully with much needed tweaks and balancing. so yeah, i expect some of haloGAF to cry rivers of tears, but from my viewpoint, its looking good. VERY fast paced too.
Hydranockz
Member
I personally love how he had to go so far back in time to find a bad game we had
Those tourneys were fun as hell. Shame I hadn't a clue back then.
bobs...onGaf
Member
I personally love how he had to go so far back in time to find a bad game we had
Those tourneys were fun as hell. Shame I hadn't a clue back then.
I think we still won that series of games with them, we played 3 and won the first 2, second map was bizzare so I have no idea how we won, but somehow we did lol. I honestly think I sucked those games though, would be fun to do a halo 4 rematch with those guys.