Mind naming a few of these significant changes?
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Halo |OT4| Trust's a Tough Thing to Come by These Days
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
Poker Face
Member
I wouldn't say it's trash. He's forming an opinion based on what we've seen.
Of course everything could completely change when we watch E3, but what else is there to discuss at this point? 343's marketing strategy thus far is to show little to nothing. Everyone is working with what they've been given.
HiredN00bs
Member
Nope. Expect More.
Except he's using the term broadly (or at least how I read it when he uses it). Skill is the application of knowledge. A plasma pistol defeating a rocket hog is fine in his definition. Switch that to a piece of equipment or armor lock as they are about to be splattered because they've wondered out in the open and it changes.
He may want a rigid framework where applying the knowledge of that framework means more than an individual game mechanic, but that's not necessarily predictable as someone else can apply their knowledge in a new or better way.
HigherLevel
Member
I think this would work pretty good if matchmaking/war games were setup like this,
Competitive this is Halo 4 with all the changes
Team Slayer
Team Objective
Rumble Pit
Big Team Battle
Multi-Team
Hardcore BR/pistol starts w/o loadouts, AAs, "perks", and any other variable decided outside of the match
Slayer Hardcore
Objective Hardcore
BTB Hardcore
Lone Wolves
Tag-Team(2 v 2)
basically the same core playlists for each style but with the changes mentioned
Competitive this is Halo 4 with all the changes
Team Slayer
Team Objective
Rumble Pit
Big Team Battle
Multi-Team
Hardcore BR/pistol starts w/o loadouts, AAs, "perks", and any other variable decided outside of the match
Slayer Hardcore
Objective Hardcore
BTB Hardcore
Lone Wolves
Tag-Team(2 v 2)
basically the same core playlists for each style but with the changes mentioned
You're a joke.
Steelyuhas
Member
No leaks today?
What is the world coming to?!
What is the world coming to?!
Dual wielding.
Bloom.
Vehicle boarding.
Assassinations.
Online play.
Weapons introductions.
Weapon removals.
Armor Abilities.
Armor Ability pickups.
Speed of movement.
Rate of fire.
Netcode.
Clip size.
Jump height.
Fall Damage.
Animation glitches.
Removal of animation glitches.
Kill volumes.
Havok.
Truskill.
I mean, I could literally do this all day.
When was it normal?
GrimBrother One
Member
Your definition of "real Halo game" of course, is completely subjective. I'm a huge fan of the Smashing Pumpkins. I lot of their albums were completely different from each other, but every one of them was a "real Pumpkins album", and as an invested fan in the band, I inevitably found it very easy to find things about each one that I adored. Of course I had my favorite song, favorite album, etc, but they were all a natural evolution of the band's growth, maturity, and creative inputs & outputs.
Halo 4 will be a real Halo game whether anyone likes it or not, because we don't get that choice. We can choose to focus on the stuff that we love, or the stuff that annoys us; doesn't make anyone better than another, but it does make some experiences better.
You sound like the guy that doesn't want a "real Pumpkins album", you want Siamese Dream remastered when they are releasing Machina.
Skill based ranking system, Frank. Please show me something at E3. I'm fairly content that the core game (movement speed, jump height, battle rifle) will hold enjoyment, I just need some glue to hold it all together. And I don't want Spartan Points or experience based levelling systems.
Usually rational people don't hate things.
Me, being a reasonable person, am skeptical of their changes, but optimistic they will be balanced properly to make gameplay enjoyable.
Poker Face
Member
I don't think we'll hear much about the ranking until end of summer/early fall
Nope. You're not allowed to criticize this game until after you've shelled out $60 for it. Once they have your money, then you can talk.
LOL at "wait and see." There is a finite range of effects that something called "Regeneration Field" can have while meaningfully having the name, and they are all stupid. And there's no context in the world that can make a 5SK BR anything less than garbage.
higherARC05
Banned
What is going on in here? seriously!
It's like 6 days till the flood gates open with glorious HALO 4 videos and info. I come in here to check out some good HALO talk or anticipations for whats about to come but all I see is crazy talk and Frankie putting a smackdown on some people.
I'm scared.
It's like 6 days till the flood gates open with glorious HALO 4 videos and info. I come in here to check out some good HALO talk or anticipations for whats about to come but all I see is crazy talk and Frankie putting a smackdown on some people.
I'm scared.
I too am interested in seeing the launch playlists.
The perfect launch playlists for me, would be to have loadout style and classic style options of nearly equivelant playlists.
So I want
FFA
Team Slayer
Team Objective
BTB
offered in both classic and new flavors.
Rest of the playlists can do what they want.
However, if I worked at 343, I'd imagine my thought process would go "We can't introduce classic Halo day one, because people would just flock to it and won't get a chance to play through our Halo Evolution changes."
So they'd make every playlist day 1 include everything new. Nothing classic. Halo 3 did this to some extent. AR starts everywhere, MOST equipement included. Then down the line they introduced much more BR starts and removed things like the flare and radar jammer because they had problems.
In Reach they had every AA available in the loadouts. Then slowly they started removing them. Dropshield was removed almost across the board (and it took a fucking long ass time) Armor Lock started to get removed. Evade etc.
Then sometime down the line, when the inevitable cry for classic Halo comes, they will make classic options that are hopefully more than one playlist.
The perfect launch playlists for me, would be to have loadout style and classic style options of nearly equivelant playlists.
So I want
FFA
Team Slayer
Team Objective
BTB
offered in both classic and new flavors.
Rest of the playlists can do what they want.
However, if I worked at 343, I'd imagine my thought process would go "We can't introduce classic Halo day one, because people would just flock to it and won't get a chance to play through our Halo Evolution changes."
So they'd make every playlist day 1 include everything new. Nothing classic. Halo 3 did this to some extent. AR starts everywhere, MOST equipement included. Then down the line they introduced much more BR starts and removed things like the flare and radar jammer because they had problems.
In Reach they had every AA available in the loadouts. Then slowly they started removing them. Dropshield was removed almost across the board (and it took a fucking long ass time) Armor Lock started to get removed. Evade etc.
Then sometime down the line, when the inevitable cry for classic Halo comes, they will make classic options that are hopefully more than one playlist.
Read again, "most" is key.
I seriously cannot see a lot of rational people who understand the game liking the introduction of random gunplay and the flow breaking armor abilities.
This is pretty much how I feel - I question some of what I've seen, but based on Frankie and David's conversations am pretty optimistic that the kind of Halo many of the negative Nancy's want will be available while still being an evolution of the franchise.
Poker Face
Member
You just contradicted yourself.
Seeing as how you're here and in the mood for answering questions Frankie, any chance you could field these two:
Are we likely to be able to spawn with the Shotgun? We've seen the screens, but this could be a specific mode or test, right?
Will we ever be able to get hold of the retailer pre-order skins at a later date, either by earning them in game or as paid DLC?
Are we likely to be able to spawn with the Shotgun? We've seen the screens, but this could be a specific mode or test, right?
Will we ever be able to get hold of the retailer pre-order skins at a later date, either by earning them in game or as paid DLC?
Would dismay me so much if that were true. I feel like competitive Halo is pushed to the wayside so much, and this is an example of that. Look at how early Starcraft announce and tout their system, compared to Halo. So much missed potential.
The thing is too, it's not just the super competitive people who want such a ranking system; anecdotally I know 5-10 people in real life who bemoaned the lack of a true Halo style ranking system in Reach, people who've never stepped a foot into the MLG playlist.
I'm going to write 343 a convincing letter once I graduate next year and cajole them into giving me a desk, $15K a year, and free reign to sculpt them a truly excellent ranking system.
But loadouts change the foundation on which the gameplay is build, not just the gameplay itself. In my opinion none of these changes do that.
The Real Napsta
Member
I'm all for loadouts. i never have to worry about playing garbage AR starts ever again.
I feel Bloom, jump height and movement speed are all as important to the games feel as armour abilities or equipment, although these variables weren't massively tweaked until Reach, in which case the fun factor went tits up.
It frightens me that so many new variables and fundamental changes are being made, probably more so because the actual core game looks fairly positive.
It's like someone giving me a Whopper meal but the drink's urine.
All of the things I listed affect that. And all of the things I listed have been elements of drama, some far more dramatic than even the melodrama happening in here. The Halo2sucks.com era made this look like minor bitching. Again, you're ultimately mashing up objective and subjective issues to form opinions.
I am not saying I don't do that. of course I do, all people do. But we've reached the point in this thread where it's a waste of time arguing because some posters have formed hardwired, immobile opinions and will insist they're right even if history proves them incorrect, or modifies their beliefs. Somebody actually TYPED that less than a page ago.
I will continue to pop in and clarify or discuss certain elements, but I'm not going to waste my time arguing with folks who have clearly and irrefutably made up their minds. In fact, I am baffled as to why they would bother posting the same points or feelings over and over and over again. Just seems like there are more fun things to do.
I'm more concerned about the lack of explanation behind the changes, obviously something prompted them and the silence on that front is what I think is allowing for the "Halo 4's trying to be CoD" thoughts to sink in. I can live with the changes if they make logical sense from an "evolving the franchise" point of view, but you just look at the changes and how little information we have regarding them and it's hard to not draw conclusions to other franchises.
Hypertrooper
Member
What exactly are you expecting?
Do you want the designers to make a Gaf tag and tell us why they are doing what they are doing? so they can then be attacked constantly by the same voices that are constantly spewing vitriol in here already? What makes you think they want to engage with this community?
This is pretty much exactly what I was gonna say. I can't believe there are several people who still feel like we should already have explanations for these changes. I mean, we've only really had the GI reveal. Not much after that has been official. So I think people should at least be waiting until we know more about it before they expect to be given the reasons behind every decision.
I don't think the criticism is vitriolic, I think it's pessimistic, which was always going to be the case given the franchise's trajectory over the last 3 years.
Nobodies asking for exhaustive reasoning behind every single change, but when an explanation can't be given for the inclusion of armour abilities, especially given how much of a train wreck they were in Reach, then questions will be asked.
The reality in this thread is that a subset of MP players are the most concerned. Specifically those that engage in, or dally around the competitive gameplay scene. There are basically zero posts in here about campaign, physics, weapons (as content), vehicles, levels, AI, graphics, audio, etc etc.
Those people will have something fairly substantial to think about, consider, and opine about in less than a couple of weeks.
The largely silent majority will also have lots to think about.
Those people will have something fairly substantial to think about, consider, and opine about in less than a couple of weeks.
The largely silent majority will also have lots to think about.
Excellent.
ElzarTheBam
Member
You should be a burlesque dancer, you're such a tease.
I can't wait to see real content, but until anything is actually shown people are going to form opinions on things they are currently seeing. I feel that the reactions that are going around now are completely justified- and that people care enough to be so vocal about it is a very good thing, as I see it.
See.. when you write things like this, I have to question your ability to think critically. You're not saying "this is how I feel" - you're saying "I believe this is how MOST people feel". That's absurd.
Reach continues to be in the top 6 most played games, more than 18 months after its release. Halo 3's still in the top 20, almost 5 YEARS after its release. (You didn't like either one.)
It's pretty clear that "most people" feel differently than you do.
Exactly, and even with Reach we had details about why certain, major changes were made shortly after they came to light. Maybe that's too much fan service though.
If there's anything that Halo 3 and Reach taught us, it's to not mirror playlists. Hardcore Objective and HC BTB would be dead in a month because low population starting out begets continuous low population. What have people been saying since the TU? Shit or get off the pot, make the game you want to make and people will play it or they won't, nobody can please everybody. I'd rather have a game that I think is pretty good where I can get good match quality than a game that caters directly to me with nobody playing it.
I think it was the sex tape that made me really controversial.
Have you read the Blizzard Design Update they posted yesterday? You mentioned them as an example of not interacting with their community, but I think the opposite is true. They go into more detail about the reasoning behind their patch changes than 99% of BWUs or Bulletins have, and it's incredibly refreshing to see that in this industry that thinks they need to hide Alien Laser Gun 22 for the PR blitz.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Not going to lie, you were the first thing that came to my mind when Frankie mentioned Havok.
Gabotron ES
Member
You forgot the new super awesome invasion gametype, must be a mistake.
Genesis Knight
Member
Kind of blows my mind that you can spawn with the noob combo in Halo 4.
higherARC05
Banned
What you guys will show on June 4th, will I need to cover my fingers in chocolate so that when I see the delicious graphics I can erotically lick my fingers.
This... disturbs me.
Hydranockz
Member
I generally wait until the company officially announces changes before I ever expect explanations on said changes.
Had you said that about Halo 3 coming from Halo 2 my mind would be blown too.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
The combo has being getting less and less effective with each halo game I don't expect h4 to be any different in that regard.
Not only could you do that in Reach and H3 (customs, obviously), but it is and was ALWAYS one of the easiest combos to come by manually. I can't think of a map where I had to run more than a few yards to get it, or even competed with someone to get it.
And you won't be able to do that in every playlist/mode.