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Halo |OT5| Believe, Again

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Gui_PT

Member
your face.....wait.

uQcCO.gif
 

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Checklist for today:

Explore Oregon Caves: check

See California redwoods for the first time: check

Bridget barfing due to motion sickness after lunch: check

Bridget barfing due to motion sickness in the diner bathroom: check

Bridget barfing on herself, the booster seat, the seat belt, her shirt, pants, shoes, car door, floor and seat because we ran out of barf bags: check

Next time we take the scenic route: after Bridget is in college


I was the same way when I was her age, still get motion sick super fast; I recall my mom hauling me around like this as I turned her car into a rolling vomitorium. Kiddo had a rough day.

Hi. Gonna catch up on the thread and then crash.

That sucks, my son does that so we have to plan everything accordingly. Nothing worse than trying to get child vomit out of a car seat/the car.
 

Tawpgun

Member
What? Unfair in what regard? Weren't we discussing popularity? What's unfair about comparing populations in a discussion of popularity?

Hence it was the least popular.

Sometimes GAF makes my brain ache.

The comparison is fair. Halo 3 had 3x the players, and convinced most of the Halo 2 playerbase to switch over to it. Notice Halo 2 just up and dying when Halo 3 comes out.

But then again, if I believed some posters, Halo Reach only did a third of the sales of Halo 3, even though it's had more population and for a longer amount of time.

It'll be interesting to see if 4 does to Reach what 3 did to 2 and what Reach did to 3.

edit: if anything, that should be telling on how low a population Gears actually had.

This.


Yeah well but people are going to purchase and play the new game, just like how the newest COD is more popular by numbers than the previous one.

Install base is only one factor to consider though. It's quite hard to measure "popularity" of a game that is three years apart and launched on different platforms. Number of players, and Halo 3 murders Halo 2, but I bet if you measured by percentage of total people on Live which ones were playing Halo, Halo 2 would have a much higher percentage. In a similar vein, Halo 2 reigned with little competition on Xbox Live, Halo 3 had more, but still dominated the field with COD 4 as the first real competitor to Halo's domination of Xbox Live. By the time Reach came out, the install base was massive and more people were playing a lot more games than when the previous games came out.

Also, I'd imagine Gears having a pretty good portion of the population. It was super hyped up, the first game to really look next gen... I'd associate its drop in population because of its rushed multiplayer. It was still using a server system with player hosts. Made it very obnoxious.


GAF is asleep?
I thought I'd drop this in. Slides and notes from Halo 3 Gameplay Design Lead Jaime Griesemer, at GDC 2010.

Notes:



Notes:

This man knows whats up.

and I know Halo 4, even reach, isn't completley rock papers scissors. No one means that.

But you can't deny its moving toward a more rock paper scissory type of gameplay.
 

Louis Wu

Member
Well I mean the number of people on XBL was way smaller during the OG Xbox days than when Halo 3 launched.
Then just focus on this bit of the graph:

the_important_bit.png


Yes, the Halo 3 starting population is much larger... but the Halo 2 population DROPS TO ALMOST NOTHING.

I don't think most people are going to want to play an older game, no matter how good, on a brand new system with all new games.
How does this sentiment jibe with "Halo 2 was perfect, they should never have changed it"?

(I realize you never said that, exactly - but several other people did. And you're arguing the same points they are.)

If nobody wants to play an old game when new ones come out... should game companies simply stop releasing games when they get it right? (I'm pretty sure the VAST MAJORITY of gamers would disagree with the idea that Halo 2 was perfect... but that's not even really the issue.)

Yeah well but people are going to purchase and play the new game, just like how the newest COD is more popular by numbers than the previous one.

Install base is only one factor to consider though. It's quite hard to measure "popularity" of a game that is three years apart and launched on different platforms. Number of players, and Halo 3 murders Halo 2, but I bet if you measured by percentage of total people on Live which ones were playing Halo, Halo 2 would have a much higher percentage. In a similar vein, Halo 2 reigned with little competition on Xbox Live, Halo 3 had more, but still dominated the field with COD 4 as the first real competitor to Halo's domination of Xbox Live. By the time Reach came out, the install base was massive and more people were playing a lot more games than when the previous games came out.
How does this argument jibe with the fact that MW3 and Black Ops have been the top two games on LIVE since MW3 came out (with BlOps dropping to #3 only when Minecraft pushed it down)?

Shouldn't MW3 have pushed BlOps way down the charts?
 

kylej

Banned
How does this argument jibe with the fact that MW3 and Black Ops have been the top two games on LIVE since MW3 came out (with BlOps dropping to #3 only when Minecraft pushed it down)?

Shouldn't MW3 have pushed BlOps way down the charts?

No, they're not really comparable in any way.
 
Sooo... unlockable emblems, I think they should be quite great. Keep old ones already unlockable and new ones locked.

Give us a proper emblem editor with more options (rotate, revert...) I don't care if kids start drawing cartoony vaginas just give us the option to report their emblem.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Halo 2 was the best game at its core, it was just plagued with exploits and glitches. Halo 3 was a lot more stable but overall a less fun game.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Then just focus on this bit of the graph:

the_important_bit.png


Yes, the Halo 3 starting population is much larger... but the Halo 2 population DROPS TO ALMOST NOTHING.


How does this sentiment jibe with "Halo 2 was perfect, they should never have changed it"?

(I realize you never said that, exactly - but several other people did. And you're arguing the same points they are.)

If nobody wants to play an old game when new ones come out... should game companies simply stop releasing games when they get it right? (I'm pretty sure the VAST MAJORITY of gamers would disagree with the idea that Halo 2 was perfect... but that's not even really the issue.)


How does this argument jibe with the fact that MW3 and Black Ops have been the top two games on LIVE since MW3 came out (with BlOps dropping to #3 only when Minecraft pushed it down)?

Shouldn't MW3 have pushed BlOps way down the charts?

1. I think Halo 3 was a better game than Reach, and yet I continue to play Reach. It's the newest game, its what everyone is going to be playing, its being supported more. Halo 2 certainly wasn't perfect with all the glitches and mod problems it had, and a lot of it is just younger years nostalgia. But going through the halo's, the 4 v 4 precision weapon gameplay of Halo 2 felt a lot better than 3, and definitely a lot better than Reach. I'd also say BTB in Halo 2 was better if only for the maps alone.

2. When a new system comes out, people want to play new games. It's that simple. Yeah Halo 2 was good, but they've been playing it since 2004. Then when Halo 3 comes out, most people are gonna buy that because they assume it has to be better than Halo 2. In some ways it was. Pure gameplay wise, I think Halo 2 was better. But the vast majority of the population doesn't care, but thats irrelevant anyway because if you had a 360, you were going to get the new Halo. It's going to be supported, its a new experience... This has nothing to do with the old game being better. It's the same reason their seems to be an almost universal sentiment in the CoD community that CoD4 was the best CoD, and Blops is at least better than MW3. And yet more people play MW3.

3. CoD is unique in this regard for 2 reasons. One, it has a MASSIVE playerbase. And two, the games come only ONE year apart from seperate develepors. Both developers have their trademark features and style to the game. Some people will only buy the Infinity Ward CoD. Some will only buy the Treyarch CoD. Some people can't justify spending $60 on a new COD every year. This is why the older CoD's still retain good population numbers. If Halo 3 and Reach came out with a years difference, Halo 3 would have still had a nice population, at least initially.
 

Karl2177

Member
How does this argument jibe with the fact that MW3 and Black Ops have been the top two games on LIVE since MW3 came out (with BlOps dropping to #3 only when Minecraft pushed it down)?

Shouldn't MW3 have pushed BlOps way down the charts?
And when BlOps came out, it was MW2 and BlOps taking the top positions, even though Reach was released a couple months before BlOps. I'm not sure if I'm helping your argument or what, but I'm just adding a bit more to the anecdote.

Sooo... unlockable emblems, I think they should be quite great. Keep old ones already unlockable and new ones locked.

Give us a proper emblem editor with more options (rotate, revert...) I don't care if kids start drawing cartoony vaginas just give us the option to report their emblem.
No. To this entire post. If I am locked out of the atom, (that I fucking submitted during the emblem contest) then I will be fairly irate.

Wow thanks for that post, I was about to hit that link on my phone.

The link is to a YouTube video demonstrating the LoD. Fyre just decided to download the presentation linked in the description.
 
No. To this entire post. If I am locked out of the atom, (that I fucking submitted during the emblem contest) then I will be fairly irate.
They could keep the old ones avaliable from the start, I don't want to get rid of my ying yang yo!

About the atom one, it was you who submitted it? did not know that.
 
Keeping Up with the HaloGAFfians™

Tough sometimes. Good to see there's still plenty-a-peen to go around.
Can't check Blueprint because Windows LIVE so I'll just ask it here, are you guys submitting more Invasion (Invasion Slayer?) maps.

Luv Gunn mentioned a second deadline afaik.
 
Can't check Blueprint because Windows LIVE so I'll just ask it here, are you guys submitting more Invasion (Invasion Slayer?) maps.

Luv Gunn mentioned a second deadline afaik.

Headlong could have made an interesting invasion map, and on that subject.

Whilst invasion maps should not, and I think, can not be used as a replacement for BTB maps.

Good BTB maps could be used as invasion maps.
 
GAF is asleep?
I thought I'd drop this in. Slides and notes from Halo 3 Gameplay Design Lead Jaime Griesemer, at GDC 2010.

Notes:



Notes:

I really wish Jamie Griesemer worked at 343 and had a bigger influence on Reach. Everything I read from him makes so much sense, and he really seems to get it? Where is he now? I know he left Bungie but I never heard where he went. I gotta see what kind of impact he has on whatever his next game is.
 

Havok

Member
I really wish Jamie Griesemer worked at 343 and had a bigger influence on Reach. Everything I read from him makes so much sense, and he really seems to get it? Where is he now? I know he left Bungie but I never heard where he went. I gotta see what kind of impact he has on whatever his next game is.
Sucker Punch, the Sly Cooper/Infamous guys, I believe. That guy's design pieces are fascinating, I still check his site every once in a while.
 
Dual Spikers on Legendary against the Flood (played Floodgate yesterday) are extremely effective. In fact, if I had to rate the most effective weapons against the Flood, dual Spikers would be just below the sword and the shotgun.

im pretty sure those were implemented to deal with lag. anyone can call the game noobified but it had a pretty large skill gap, a shit ton bigger than Halo 3, and Reach.
Halo 2's aim was far larger than Halo 3's or Reach's. Also, I'm curious as to how you measure a skill gap in a game.
 
Dual Spikers on Legendary against the Flood (played Floodgate yesterday) are extremely effective. In fact, if I had to rate the most effective weapons against the Flood, dual Spikers would be just below the sword and the shotgun.

Dual Plasma rifles against the flood in H3, I was startled at how effective that combo was. Actually kind of annoyed too, because it was such a drastic change in expectations from the first two games with no explanation.

Halo 2's aim was far larger than Halo 3's or Reach's. Also, I'm curious as to how you measure a skill gap in a game.

By the amount of nostalgia that game generates.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Is it worth me trying to beat Reach on Legendary? I did Reach on co-op, but some of the sections in that games seems that they would be super frustrating on Legendary.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Dual Spikers on Legendary against the Flood (played Floodgate yesterday) are extremely effective. In fact, if I had to rate the most effective weapons against the Flood, dual Spikers would be just below the sword and the shotgun.


Halo 2's aim was far larger than Halo 3's or Reach's. Also, I'm curious as to how you measure a skill gap in a game.

Not sure if there's a "scientific" way.

But it's just how a better player will win against an inferior player. 1 v 1 battle a bunch of times. See what it shows. Measure damage done.

For instance, Halo Reach's strafe sucks. Isn't hard to hit players. In Halo 2 and 3 your strafe could be absurd.

Also, in Halo 2, button combos added a layer of skill above what is "classic halo" This widened the skill gap, all be it in an accidental way. What happened was in competetive Halo 2, there were players known for their ability to pull these things off with great ability. They consistently did well. They were like super stars. But now, it seems that the high level player pool is a big muddied pool because the skill gap CEILING is low. Good players can only get so good. The rest is through teamwork now.
 
Hmm, the very last segment comes to mind with the elites and the gun. I may give it a shot before Halo 4 though.
There are some good youtube clips that show you how to get past the majority of the enemies on Legendary on that level (Tyrant comes to mind), but I didn't have many problems with my regular Legendary run. If I can do it, pretty much anyone can.
 
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