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Halo |OT7| You may leave, Juices. And take Team Downer with you.

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T

thezerofire

Banned
Shadders said:
I know how it works, but surely a level 50 account in Halo 4 is going to be easier to sell than a Halo 3 rank 50? There's a genuine reason to want to get to 50 now as opposed to just e-penis brag points.
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It's probably going to take a lot longer to get to 50 in 4 than 3
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
DeadNames said:
I think that Treyarch/Infinity Ward are trying to poop out as many titles as possible so that the charts will only be CoD.

It's happening. The two most recent CoDs usually hold the top.
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Yes, these hundreds of people working really hard all year round are pooping out 18 million seller games.

Grow up.
 
Z

Zoso Achilles

Member
Well I finally just caught up with this thread...fuck that was painful. There were a lot of great, well thought out posts on the profound effect a system like this will have on Halo, and I agree; I really wish it wasn't happening. At this point, however, I've given up. I know I'm buying Halo 4, and I know I'm going to play it near exclusively; it's what I do every time. Bungie's halo is gone, 343 is moving in a different direction; I can complain all I want, but nothing will change that.

So now, all I'm going to do is wait for the bulletin to "clarify" this system, take in the information and just nod my head. Come November 6th, I'll plow through campaign on legendary, enjoy it, play the opening week of Spartan Ops, enjoy that, then jump into multiplayer. I hope I like this game, I hope I can have fun playing it. I'm sure there will be bullshit that will make me rage, but I can only hope it's not to the extent of Reach's bullshit; I don't think I can handle another Reach. So bring on Halo 4 because, who am I kidding? I'm going to play it.

With that out of the way, anyone wanna play reach or something?
 
S

senador

Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
...Its NOT A RANK its an EXP BAR.


How dont people get this?
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Yeah this. Think Reach ranks, but probably not as extreme in terms of time between and end ranks.

monsterfracas said:
I'd say something similar to that:

1. Black Ops 2
2. Halo 4
3. FIFA 13
4. Modern Warfare 3
5. Minecraft
6. Battlefield 3
7. Black Ops
No idea for the last ones.


I'm not a fan of soccer, but damn those games look awesome. I've played some of the older versions and loved them. Their animation is some of, if not the best in the industry.

I've been pretty much ignoring Reach entirely for the last few weeks. Halo 3's where it's at.
Click to expand...

I'm going to go with:

1. Black Ops 2
2. Halo 4
3. FIFA 13
4. Minecraft
5. MW3
6. Battlefield 3
7. Black Ops
8. Reach
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
HiredN00bs said:
Was anyone selling 5-Star General accounts in Halo 3? Why not?
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Yes 50s sold for more money if they were General+ EXP wise.

Usually somewhere almost twice as much 100 opposed to 50 bucks at websites. The reasoning behind this was if someone had a new accont with 40 games of Halo (often less) and a 50, it wasnt theres. So people wanted accounts that were older with more games played.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Karl2177 said:
So for those still needing the "Don't Touch That!" achievement(Defiant One-Flag), this Saturday I'm gonna be on around noon-ish CST. I'm gonna uninstall Noble and Anniversary, so the only DLC that shows up is Defiant. We'll need a group of 10 people to go into Team Objective. Who is up for it?

Players
-Karl2177
-TCKaos
-Mister Negative
-Hypertrooper
-Tawpgun
-The Real Napsta
-Dax01
-
Alternates
-DesertFox

I'm probably going to update this once or twice before Friday.
Click to expand...

Before all of the specialization stuff was flopped onto us, I was organizing this. Just bumping it up to see if we can get at least 4 more people.
 
S

senador

Banned
heckfu said:
I also expect Borderlands 2 to be on the charts as well, FWIW.
Click to expand...

Ah fuck, forgot about that.

I'm not taking into account any other fall/winter games either. I'll have to do some research.

Either way, I still expect this:

1. Black Ops 2
2. Halo 4

It just doesn't matter though.
 
D

DesertFox

Member
Karl2177 said:
So for those still needing the "Don't Touch That!" achievement(Defiant One-Flag), this Saturday I'm gonna be on around noon-ish CST. I'm gonna uninstall Noble and Anniversary, so the only DLC that shows up is Defiant. We'll need a group of 10 people to go into Team Objective. Who is up for it?

Players
-Karl2177
-TCKaos
-Mister Negative
-Hypertrooper
-Tawpgun
-The Real Napsta
-
Alternates

I'm probably going to update this once or twice before Friday.

Before all of the specialization stuff was flopped onto us, I was organizing this. Just bumping it up to see if we can get at least 4 more people.
Click to expand...

I'm interested - you can mark me as tentative though since I'm not sure if I'll be home on saturday morning
 
W

willow ve

Member
Enfinit said:
The population of Halo 4 is going to be outstanding the first week it's out, however I'd say a cool 33% will drop once CoD is out. Halo 4 will be the #1 most played Xbox Live title for one week, then fall short against CoD, where it'll sit comfortably at #2 for months and months. That's my prediction anyways. Not that population really matters if you can find games quickly.
Click to expand...

You forgot about FIFA and Minecraft. Also MW3 will probably stay in the top 5 for awhile. For a long time Black Ops and MW3 were running 1 and 2 on the list. Halo 4 will disrupt the order for a month or two and then it will probably settle down to

1. Black Ops 2
2. FIFA 13
3. MW3
4. Halo 4
5. Minecraft

and Borderlands 2 (although I don't forsee as much staying power for that unless the ending of this game is much much improved)
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
HiredN00bs said:
Even if they got a grand for them, that's like what? $1/hour?
Click to expand...

Play Halo in your free time. Get paid for it.

My must buys are Asscreed 3 and Halo 4. Borderlands 2 is a maybe and I do want to get more into FIFA/sports games in general, but can't justify paying 60 for one of them.
 
Vire

Vire

Member
Gray Man said:
Does 3543 ever get mad at IGN? With all the explaining Frankie and Ellis had to do here it seems like IGN dropped the ball...
Click to expand...

It's really publications in general. We had a similar meltdown when the Game Informer Magazine reveal hit.

The problem is, this is the best way to get exposure. They'll get a lot more mainstream views from IGN, than something like Waypoint.

I don't remember there being this much fallout after every news piece for previous Halo's though.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Vire said:
It's really publications in general. We had a similar meltdown when the Game Informer Magazine reveal hit.

The problem is, this is the best way to exposure. They'll get a lot more mainstream views from IGN, than something like Waypoint.
Click to expand...

The best way is videos. With people talking and gameplay. Don't know why there couldn't be a full interview with Ellis alongside the written article from IGN.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
What the fuck guys, I can't get online with my xbox. I just finished a Game with some Gaffers ( Cragmire RAAAGE). and then everything fucked up.

Everything in my networt works here at home, only the xbox doesn't connect? I have the new dashboard, anyone with ideas or similiar problems?
 
H

HiredN00bs

Member
Tawpgun said:
Play Halo in your free time. Get paid for it.
Click to expand...
There's still the inconvenience of losing your account and having to make a new one, and the fact that all of this bullshit is clearly in violation of user agreements and terms of service, so you're risking your account, your Xbox's online access, and possibly a lawsuit if you offer a product that you have no right to sell in the first place and may be unable to deliver.

The point was that selling minimal EXP 50s was far more lucrative.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Gray Man said:
Does 3543 ever get mad at IGN? With all the explaining Frankie and Ellis had to do here it seems like IGN dropped the ball...
Click to expand...

If they did, then they would never, ever talk about it or even let on.

The games industry is pretty much in bed with most of the "games journalists" and outlets because the industry relies on such outlets for marketing, never mind the threat of a bad review popping up on metacritic.

I'm not saying anything specific about how 343 or Microsoft operates, but the industry as a whole works this way and developers and publishers will rarely, ever give reason to say anything negative in public about the press.
 
ElRenoRaven

ElRenoRaven

Member
Slow down people. I can't keep up while working damn it.

Mister Negative said:
The nice part about being Team Downer is that if you're wrong, you get an awesome game to play.

It's Juices's Wager.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That's why I'm a pessimist. When wrong you end up with things better then you expect. That means I'm actually happier more often.

Plywood said:
134332942456160ahu.gif
Click to expand...

Goddamn I'm drawing a blank. What movie is that from?

GhaleonEB said:
Jaime Griesemer's design blog, Tip of the Sphere, is excellent. One of my favorite posts of his was about ensuring elements that are fun in a game retain them, rather than getting tweaked to death.

I'm going to post some of those excerpts, and then contrast them with the Halo 4 perks.

A side note, I can't load the Halo Waypoint Halo 4 page on my work computer - it flashes up for a second, then disappears, leaving the page black. So I'm going off of descriptions posted in the thread.

Jaime in bullets, Halo 4 not.

  • Creating a Counter – Another common way to address an overpowered element is to design a second element whose sole role is to counter the first. Not only is this second element probably not fun on its own merits, but everyone will be saddled with choosing an option that they secretly hope they don’t have to employ, just to prevent everyone else from choosing the fun option they desperately want. I will choose the unenjoyable anti-tank mine so that nobody else can have fun using a tank.

Stealth: Decreased visibilty vs PromVision
Wheelman: Lessend EMP effect, Vehicle Health buff

These perks have features that do nothing but counter other perks or features. In the case of the EMP, players can now spawn with Plasma Pistols. So, drivers had better pick the Wheelman, so as to counter it; likewise with Promethean Vision and the Stealth perk.

  • The Old Switch and Bait - Many games, especially those looking for a sense of progression, will initially introduce the player to a hobbled version of an element, and then unlock the truly fun version as a reward. Of course, this ignores the fact that players usually won’t invest in a game that isn’t fun, and even if they do eventually earn the right to have fun, a vast majority of their experience will have been struggling through a crippled, unenjoyable game. If I kill 300 more rats with this blunted shovel maybe I’ll get to use a real sword!… in this game that is ostensibly about swords.
Having to progress to unlock the contents of the combat sandbox (guns, abilities) in a game that is about a rich combat sandbox. No longer letting us pick up grenades off fallen enemies unless we have that perk picked.

  • Death of a Thousand Tweaks – Perhaps the most outwardly reasonable (and therefore the most nefarious) way of shorting fun is to make an endless series of minor changes, each one leaving the element a little less fun than it was. Slightly less accurate, a touch less damage, a little longer reload, a smidge more recoil, a fraction less range, etc. In this parody of the tuning process, the element gets gradually less fun until it is “unfun enough” to be included. The problem is that tuning is more delicate than balance, so the element will lose the qualities that made it fun long before it becomes fair. It will also leave players frustrated; if only this gun had been tuned better it would be really fun!

This describes the entire perk suite, but in particular, things like:

Shielding: Shield Recharge Rate buff
AA Efficiency: AA Recharge Rate buff
Stability: Lessened knock out of scope
Sensor Upgrade: Increased Motion Tracker Range
Awareness: Use radar while scoped


Looking back, Jaime's article there is describing many of the design principles that made Halo fun for me. Beyond things like the two weapon limit, recharging health, etc. was a design philosphy that dictated decisions that kept the combat deep, fun and clear.

343 is of course wanting to make a fun game, but it's clear to me they are not adhering to the same design principles that Bungie was when they made the game. This is not evolving the game forward, it's removing some of the key, defining design elements from the series.

This is why I am so worried. More than any bullet list like this, fear Halo 4 has turned into a game that is fundamentally different from the series I've loved for over a decade.
Click to expand...


Goddamn it man. You are so damn good at explaining shit. I really wish I could do half the job you do when explaining why I do or don't like things. I totally agree with your point too.
 
Vire

Vire

Member
Someone asked if the video is "the one I've seen over 10 times" and Ryan promised it's not.

Who wants to take bets on it being the Theater trailer?
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
Ramirez said:
I wonder if that guy ever got any offers on my account when he stole it. :(
Click to expand...
Someone stole your account? That sucks :( How long ago was that?
Tawpgun said:
Play Halo in your free time. Get paid for it.

My must buys are Asscreed 3 and Halo 4. Borderlands 2 is a maybe and I do want to get more into FIFA/sports games in general, but can't justify paying 60 for one of them.
Click to expand...
I told myself I wasn't going to get ACIII, but I just cannot resist. Dat steelbook.

Borderlands 2 is also a maybe for me. I'll probably end up getting it though.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
GhaleonEB said:
This is why I hold a bit of optimism for the game. If 343 really nails the core gameplay - movement, map design, etc - then the game could be great even if my worst fears about the perks come true. (And I'm sure at least some are unfounded.)

I think that's why Halo 4 was revealed the way it was, with just the bare bones gameplay - dat strafe gif - showing how well they got the core. But at this point there's so much layered on top of it, I just hope that great core isn't crushed under the weight of a thousand variables to balance.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's why a good part of me remains hopefully that MP in H4 can be fun to play for a long time. The core gameplay looks very sound and fun, so even if some of the stuff piled on top sucks, as long as that core gameplay is a dominant force, it will still be a fun game.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Shake Appeal said:
Great post. I miss Jaime and everything he brought to Halo. And I share your worry, though at least the basic moving and aiming and firing seems improved from Reach, which will smooth over a lot of the potential frustration of perks and other unforeseeable elements colliding everywhere.
Click to expand...

This is why I hold a bit of optimism for the game. If 343 really nails the core gameplay - movement, map design, etc - then the game could be great even if my worst fears about the perks come true. (And I'm sure at least some are unfounded.)

I think that's why Halo 4 was revealed the way it was, with just the bare bones gameplay - dat strafe gif - showing how well they got the core. But at this point there's so much layered on top of it, I just hope that great core isn't crushed under the weight of a thousand variables to balance.
 
Vire

Vire

Member
Steelyuhas said:
I'll bet against it being a Theater trailer. I'd probably bet against there ever being a dedicated Theater trailer unless there is some new huge feature associated with Theater, which I don't expect.
Click to expand...

Not that theater silly...

Talking about the one they showed at SDCC.

I agree with you though, I'd be surprised if we even hear about Theater mode.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
Off topic (I know, right) but I bought those MW3 earbuds awhile back when they were on sale for $15.

Gatdamn, these are some sick earbuds. Seriously.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
GhaleonEB said:
This is why I hold a bit of optimism for the game. If 343 really nails the core gameplay - movement, map design, etc - then the game could be great even if my worst fears about the perks come true. (And I'm sure at least some are unfounded.)

I think that's why Halo 4 was revealed the way it was, with just the bare bones gameplay - dat strafe gif - showing how well they got the core. But at this point there's so much layered on top of it, I just hope that great core isn't crushed under the weight of a thousand variables to balance.
Click to expand...

I think the biggest problem with Reach was that the elements were not balanced. Armour Lock wasn't balanced. Bubbles weren't balanced. Jetpack isn't balanced. Many of the elements in Reach just didn't have the level of polish expected and a consequence... well, you know.

All these things for Halo 4 could be perfectly balanced and fun and add to the experience richly... for all we know at this point.

We don't know though. And after Reach, I think the hardcore fanbase has the right to be weary of so many apparently additional variables - if Bungie with a decade of experience couldn't balance the smaller amount in Reach right, how can an unproven, new developer hope to balance significantly more?
 
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