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[Der Flatulator]

Every map that was added into MM made by Forge was bad in Reach.

That is all.

And that is your opinion.

 

[Satchel]

Which Halogaffers will be getting it first, by time zone? Only zone I know is the guys in the UK, they're like 6 hours ahead of me.

Going to be soooo jealous of those guys.

NZ GAF first, then followed by AUS GAF a few hours later.

Will be online straight away to get some of that lag free goodness before you yanks and eurotrash ruin it for us.

 

[Tashi]

The Hardcore Cartographers would be just for the Hardcore list and content management and headhunted out of the hardcore communities.

There was no point to doing it during Reach's run as I stated earlier: we could have added all the MLG Pros and Walshys to the CCs that we wanted, they would have been completely unable to submit any content to the MLG playlist, nor use hardcore content elsewere in matchmaking because MLG had a monopoly over hardcore content.

As it is, I'm cooking something up for the process right now that we'll be beta testing soon that will speed up the CC process exponentially and make it as transparent as possible without breaking NDAs and such. I already talked about it a bit over at THC.

edit: we're still ultimately limited to 343's update cycle in terms of speed though.

edit2: also assumes the CC process will be used for halo 4, which isn't a guarantee. The thing I'm building is only for Reach's upcoming updates for now.

Who are the community cartographers? How many are there? What are their handles/gametags/usernames? How were they chosen? What are their responsibilties? How much power do they have in terms of what maps ultimately hit matchmaking in any playlist? Do they create their own maps? How do they decide what can go into matchmaking and what can't?

I feel like it's some mysterious secret society tasked with finding a bag of garbage in a huge dumpster.

 

[Ramirez]

Not really... I was bored and looking at all my posts and realized my first was on OT6 just thought id post. didn't think it was that big of a deal but apparently one post pissed you off. Just how dumb are you? I'll go bump every other OT if it will make you mad. Way to be a douche bag karl

This will infuriate me, please do it.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

And that is your opinion.

It was scientifically proven by making lab mice watch people play reach

The ones who saw more forge gameplay showed more signs of depression

All the mice ended up commiting suicide before the experiment was over - it is believed due to the fact they where all forced to watch reach gameplay.

Which bonus for which?

I also want to know this Elzar!

 

[Deputy Moonman]

It was scientifically proven by making lab mice watch people play reach

The ones who saw more forge gameplay showed more signs of depression

All the mice ended up commiting suicide before the experiment was over - it is believed due to the fact they where all forced to watch reach gameplay.

true story

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Really? REALLY? Obviously a new game doesn't have to adhere to any old principles from a previous game. All i was stating was that small arena style maps are petty popular. Whether or not playing on one in Halo4 would be a complete disaster has yet to be seen. Based on what we have seen from game play and first hand accounts, sure, perhaps they wouldn't work. But everything DOES fall on 343's shoulders whether or not they decide to completely revamp the game or not, because Halo has a massive following and anything 343 decides to do is going to be met with some type of criticism. That's ALL i was saying, lol. I could have chosen a better word than, "problem." Sheesh.

LOL I never read your posts btw - just thought Steel's post itself was well said

One area I disagree with Steel though is what you're saying now (and before too I'm guessing?). I don't necessarily think Guardian would be an awful mess like Steel thinks. Just make it a little more spacious because if you think about it, Halo 4's base speed is like Halo 3's isn't it? If Sprint was put into Halo 3 right now it could work wonders IMO, especially on larger maps with that craptastic BR!

 

[senador]

Every map that was added into MM made by Forge was bad in Reach.

That is all.

Hear hear! Well, I liked Kingdom.

 

[Der Flatulator]

It was scientifically proven by making lab mice watch people play reach

The ones who saw more forge gameplay showed more signs of depression

All the mice ended up commiting suicide before the experiment was over - it is believed due to the fact they where all forced to watch reach gameplay.

Was the experiment double-blind?

 

[FyreWulff]

Who are the community cartographers?

Posts here:
me
NOKYARD
Slightly Live
GhaleonEB
Homeboyd
GodlyPerfection

Other cartographers:
HWM Luv Gunn
pete the duck
Joeski
Insane54
Obi Wan Stevobi

Ex Cartographers:
AgentPapercraft

How were they chosen?

Various methods. Either selected by 343, by Bungie, for stuff they did, or elected by other community reps. I was elected in by Louis Wu along with Pete as the HBO reps, back in the day where it was going to be a cartographer per community (that didn't last long)

What are their responsibilties?

Find content, test content, submit content

How much power do they have in terms of what maps ultimately hit matchmaking in any playlist?

Zero. We can only put content on 343's plate, they are the ones that ultimately decides if it goes in or not.

Do they create their own maps?

yes

How do they decide what can go into matchmaking and what can't?

We don't have control over matchmaking

I feel like it's some mysterious secret society tasked with finding a bag of garbage in a huge dumpster.

They don't do a good job of helping us with this situation on Waypoint. You have to already know we exist to find us (Members -> Search -> Role -> Community Cartographer). Every time I tried to get content from r/halo I just got stuck in "WHO ARE YOU AND WHY SHOULD I SUBMIT MAPS TO YOU" so I got tired of having to go through the proof process each time (and they stopped submitting content anyway)

 

[xxjuicesxx]

And that is your opinion.

...

So what is what you are saying?

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Was the experiment double-blind?

Well duh... They where mice - of course they didn't have prior knowledge (I had to go look up what double-blind meant lol)

 

[Deputy Moonman]

LOL I never read your posts btw - just thought Steel's post itself was well said

One area I disagree with Steel though is what you're saying now (and before too I'm guessing?). I don't necessarily think Guardian would be an awful mess like Steel thinks. Just make it a little more spacious because if you think about it, Halo 4's base speed is like Halo 3's isn't it? If Sprint was put into Halo 3 right now it could work wonders IMO, especially on larger maps with that craptastic BR!

Nah you're fine. I realized that my post was sort of over the top. I have a long and luxurious history of dramatic posts. And Steely is like one of my top 5 favorite posters on halogaf. Sorry about that.

EDIT: I wish i hadn't said anything to begin with.. I see his point and i really wasn't trying to disagree with anything he brought up. But I think it would be possible to make a smaller map that could somehow accommodate having sprint all the time. However, if sprint makes mid-sized maps feel smaller, then there is no point. And that does seem evident based on all the maps we've seen.

 

[Tashi]

If you find, test and then submit content...don't you have a say what goes in matchmaking? Do you submit 100% of the content you find and test? Aside from the clearly broken maps of course.

 

[Barrow Roll]

Quarantine Zone and the preceding Sacred Icon are such shit levels. There are so many things wrong with them, and with Flood combat in Halo 2. Flood with energy shields? I thought the point of the Flood was to overwhelm with large numbers, but be easy to take down? Isn't that why the Shotgun decimated them in CE? Scratch that though, the Shotgun is balls in Halo 2.

And which bonehead thought Flood vehicle combat would be cool? Or having Rocket Launcher wielding Flood spawn on tall perches outside your field of vision while you're in a slow moving tank? Or just Rocket Flood in general? Or that last Gondola ride to the Library with Shotgun wielding Flood appearing out of nowhere that kill you in one hit. Better to just hide in the bottom until you reach the end and run past everything with camo. In fact, that's also the best way to beat Sacred Icon. Just hit camo and run past everything. Ugh. At least they have some nice scenery sometimes.

Click for the super-size.

And HaloGAF Civil War for Tunavi.

 

[FyreWulff]

If you find, test and then submit content...don't you have a say what goes in matchmaking? Do you submit 100% of the content you find and test? Aside from the clearly broken maps of course.

We test it because Bungie and 343 expect it to be tested before we show it, to cut down on the signal to noise ratio and not just end up with unmanageable lists of maps. No, we don't submit 100% of the content we test. Even after testing, and submitting, maps have been pulled by the CCs and never resubmitted.

We can give feedback, and push maps in front of 343, but 343 and Bungie submitted content they found themselves along with other content. A CC maps is about as likely to get into matchmaking as a map a CC found. etc. We have a voice on what goes into matchmaking but no final control or yes/no, they can even use maps we've pulled (because 343 owns everyone's maps anyway). There's a couple of maps in matchmaking that the community they were sourced from through a total shitfit and called Bungie not-nice-words because the maps weren't only in a playlist the community wanted for themselves. Those maps are still in matchmaking to this day :lol

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Nah you're fine. I realized that my post was sort of over the top. I have a long and luxurious history of dramatic posts. And Steely is like one of my top 5 favorite posters on halogaf. Sorry about that.

Oh no worries, didn't take it offensively lol. What I do take offensively is people (2+) saying my gifs never make sense! I expect a better class of GAF around here ;]

Spoiler

And the Mk.V/Grenade Launcher being gone

And to your edit, I mean if you think about it.. MLG was faster movement speed on Guardian and that played fine. But instead add Sprint to the default speed.. I don't know, other games seem to do fine with Sprint on insanely small maps so I don't think Halo would necessarily be any different.


Replaying some of Reach's campaign right now on matchmaking has me seeing a lot of little things I missed before. Not bad some of the care Bungie put into the little details.. Would've been cool to see in first person again on the passenger side in the Revenant - and blowing yourself up by catching your own Banshee bomb in mid air on the Spire mission is fun ;b

Those games usually have faster kill times than Halo.

That's definitely true. I look at a game like Murder Miners though which feels closer to Halo 1 and Sprint works well, so it gives me hope for smaller Forge maps in Halo 4.

 

[Tashi]

We test it because Bungie and 343 expect it to be tested before we show it, to cut down on the signal to noise ratio and not just end up with unmanageable lists of maps. No, we don't submit 100% of the content we test. Even after testing, and submitting, maps have been pulled by the CCs and never resubmitted.

We can give feedback, and push maps in front of 343, but 343 and Bungie submitted content they found themselves along with other content. A CC maps is about as likely to get into matchmaking as a map a CC found. etc. We have a voice on what goes into matchmaking but no final control or yes/no, they can even use maps we've pulled (because 343 owns everyone's maps anyway). There's a couple of maps in matchmaking that the community they were sourced from through a total shitfit and called Bungie not-nice-words because the maps weren't only in a playlist the community wanted for themselves. Those maps are still in matchmaking to this day :lol

Thank you for answering my questions.

Now, being a community cartographer is something that interests me. How do I go about joining the group? I feel like I can add a lot to the team.

 

[FyreWulff]

Thank you for answering my questions.

Now, being a community cartographer is something that interests me. How do I go about joining the group? I feel like I can add a lot to the team.

Check your PMs

 

[Der Flatulator]

Well duh... They where mice - of course they didn't have prior knowledge (I had to go look up what double-blind meant lol)

That would be single blind.
Double blind would mean the people making the mice watch the games also had no prior information on the maps.

...

So what is what you are saying?

I enjoy playing on a substantial subset of the Forge maps in MM.

 

[Spiders]

I don't know, other games seem to do fine with Sprint on insanely small maps so I don't think Halo would necessarily be any different.

Those games usually have faster kill times than Halo.

 

[FyreWulff]

Interesting tidbits from Rare developers on working with Microsoft (re: earlier Rare discussion).

http://www.notenoughshaders.com/2012/10/01/crash-lab-life-after-rareware-and-free-radical/

What motivated you to leave Rare to become one of the co-founders of Crash Lab, and what do you find most exciting about working at Crash Lab? Were you happy with how Microsoft handled Rare during the time you spent there?

Back in the day, Rare was an incredible place to work. I owe it an awful lot for the education it gave me and I learned an immense amount from some truly world-class people. I’d been there for 17 years by the time I left and by the end, the Rare I joined had gone. I don’t really attribute that to anything that Microsoft did, but the simple migration to becoming part of a mammoth organisation inevitably changes the atmosphere of a hitherto insular place like Rare. Some of the people embraced the corporate culture whilst others, like me, felt that there was not enough emphasis being placed on real attention to detail or iteration of ideas/features in order to make them great, rather than just being ‘done’ and able to be ticked from a list.

In all the projects I work on, it’s the obsessive attention to detail that makes the difference between just doing stuff, and doing good stuff. They are a rare breed (no pun intended), but if I can find and work with people that share the viewpoint that if we try hard enough, we can do things better. It’s motivating.

You’re responsible for the great art direction of so many Rare games. You went on to become the head of Art at Rare where you created the visual design of Microsoft’s avatars. Which Rare game did you find the most challenging to work on? Also, out of the Rare games you worked on, which one are you the proudest of?

The most challenging game to work on was undoubtedly Kinect Sports 2. I worked as Rare’s Head of Art and the Art Director on that game simultaneously, just before I left, and it was tough going. There were people that shuffled into senior roles on the KS2 team that were pretty new to Rare, and they did not well understand the delicacy of how we typically built things. I think they bludgeoned it with naivety, over-bearing methodology and ‘process’, and missed some of the fine qualities that made the company’s name. It was soul destroying to see it heading off down the wrong path and made it a challenge to stay motivated during development.

 

[Striker]

Game's over two years old and still has a 100 playlists. Can't say I'm surprised that MM is a miserable experience.

I haven't gotten to play a single headlong BTB game. :'(

 

[El_Chino]

Has this been posted? Pretty cool IMO.

 

[broony]

From a few pages back.

Is Jamie just saying he noticed listening to the latest Sparkcast (from last week) that they mention Halo 3 a lot or is his saying he has just taken part in a new sparkcast? I'm guessing he just listened to the last one, nothing to get excited about.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

My forge-loin itches. Someone scratch it, please.

 

[Tha Robbertster]

My forge-loin itches. Someone scratch it, please.

I heard Elzar loves loins. He'll gladly scratch them for you.

 

[Der Flatulator]

From a few pages back.

Is Jamie just saying he noticed listening to the latest Sparkcast (from last week) that they mention Halo 3 a lot or is his saying he has just taken part in a new sparkcast? I'm guessing he just listened to the last one, nothing to get excited about.

He would have listened to it. As it is a sandbox podcast and he was paramount to Halo's sandbox design, philosophy and development, I'm sure he is interested in what 343 are doing with Halo 3. From comments he has made, I surmise that he didn't like Halo Reach's sandbox.

 

[broony]

Thanks, that was what I was getting from it.

 

[SHIFTYkiwi]

My forge-loin itches. Someone scratch it, please.

I know that feeling well. Being away from an xbox for months during uni has taught me how to cope with my forging desires.

 

[GloveSlap]

I'm actually less hyped for Halo 4 than I was for Reach. With Reach, I was naively oblivious to how damaging some of the new mechanics would be. I had given barely any thought to reticle bloom, how jetpack would destroy map flow, sword + sprint, etc. It all sounded awesome to me.

Now I'm a bit more critical, and that's the major thing hurting my Halo 4 hype. I see a lot of important things that I don't like. But, once again, I'm pretty confident it will be better than Reach, and I've been playing and (usually) enjoying that game for two years now.

And there are things that do get me excited about Halo 4, for sure. Every single bit of campaign footage, for one. The return of Chief and Cortana. Seeing how the story will kick off the new trilogy. The new, more athletic look of the Spartan IVs. A lot of the new weapons. The fact that most of the MP maps look good (so sorely needed after Reach). And the end of AR starts! To name a few.

I was really hyped for the Reach beta. The beta killed all my hype for the retail release because I hated it so much. The sad thing is the beta was actually better than the retail version, if only because the magnum was actually decent.

I am really hyped for Halo 4. Im a a bit cautious, but I am so ready to move on from Reach.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I heard Elzar loves loins. He'll gladly scratch them for you.

Haha. It's too bad that an ocean separates what would be a premium quality relationship.

I know that feeling well. Being away from an xbox for months during uni has taught me how to cope with my forging desires.

I let my gold subscription run out. Will probably renew it midway through October. I'd like to get in some games of Reach to acclimate myself to Halo again, before 4 comes out.

I was really hyped for the Reach beta. The beta killed all my hype for the retail release because I hated it so much. The sad thing is the beta was actually better than the retail version, if only because the magnum was actually decent.

I am really hyped for Halo 4. Im a a bit cautious, but I am so ready to move on from Reach.

I remember really enjoying the beta. I was a jet-packing, magnum-wielding fool. RIP pistol. We will never see your true light again since devs seem to hate you so much.

 

[Stinkles]

From a few pages back.

Is Jamie just saying he noticed listening to the latest Sparkcast (from last week) that they mention Halo 3 a lot or is his saying he has just taken part in a new sparkcast? I'm guessing he just listened to the last one, nothing to get excited about.

He was listening, which is a shame because Jaime talking about games is gold. Jaime, come on a Sparkast!

 

[Jedi Otter]

So we're gonna be seeing a new map today from IGN, more of Ragnarok on Thursday, and the rest of the 10 standard maps over the following weeks. I'm just wondering where the forge map(s?) are gonna fit in with all that, and whether it's gonna be a few pictures or a blow-out. I'm just hoping for more colour in forge.

Anyways; Halo 4, cannot wait.

Enjoy!

 

[Gui_PT]

Oh god!

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Oh god!

Nope. That's just Stinkles.

 

[Gui_PT]

Nope. That's just Stinkles.

To many people, it's the same thing.

 

[Der Flatulator]

To many people, it's the same thing.

Frankie is a deity

Spoiler

confirmed

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Frankie is a dainty

Spoiler

confirmed

I fixed that for you.

EDIT:

He was listening, which is a shame because Jaime talking about games is gold. Jaime, come on a Sparkast!

Going by west coast time, you're either up very late or very early. What's your view?

 

[Stinkles]

I fixed that for you.

EDIT:

Going by west coast time, you're either up very late or very early. What's your view?

Jet lag. Went to the gym. Played swat. Watching documentary about Ethelred, Augustin and the first church in England.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

Jet lag. Went to the gym. Played swat. Watching documentary about Ethelred, Augustin and the first church in England.

Ah im sorry to hear about the jet lag. Hopefully you don't have to go into work today, or at least not right away. Documentaries are cool, though

Spoiler

especially ones about halo 4

. The gym? Not so much. Do you have an opinion on forge-loin scratching and whether it's appropriate in public? I suppose I should get back to work. Almost to humpday!

 

[Gui_PT]

Ah im sorry to hear about the jet lag. Hopefully you don't have to go into work today, or at least not right away. Documentaries are cool, though

Spoiler

especially ones about halo 4

. The gym? Not so much. Do you have an opinion on forge-loin scratching and whether it's appropriate in public? I suppose I should get back to work. Almost to humpday!

What?

 

[TheOddOne]

What?

The gym comment pissed me off for some reason. I am pissed on the interwebs.

 

[Untracked]

He was listening, which is a shame because Jaime talking about games is gold. Jaime, come on a Sparkast!

Yes, get him on! I will listen.
Guy knows how a Hog should handle.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

The gym comment pissed me off for some reason. I am pissed on the interwebs.

Dang, I'm sorry lol. Was more of a joke, making fun of myself for never going to the gym. Wasn't supposed to be a knock on people who go to the gym.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

35 Days, So Close, Do i Book time off work or not? Also means i have to get done with BL2 in 35 days aswell as find time to finish up DS2 and id like to get some ME3 MP in if i can. I remember talking about this game being 100+ days away like it was yesterday.


Ohh, I got a Rabbit, So that's cool.

 

[TheOddOne]

Dang, I'm sorry lol. Was more of a joke, making fun of myself for never going to the gym. Wasn't supposed to be a knock on people who go to the gym.

I was just joking around, man

 

[heckfu]

What I do take offensively is people (2+) saying my gifs never make sense! I expect a better class of GAF around here ;]

What can I say? Your gifs often don't make sense.

 

[Gui_PT]

The gym comment pissed me off for some reason. I am pissed on the interwebs.

Dang, I'm sorry lol. Was more of a joke, making fun of myself for never going to the gym. Wasn't supposed to be a knock on people who go to the gym.

I was just joking around, man

Well I feel insulted. So I'm going to the gym today with a lifesize poster of you and beat the crap out of it.

A poster of both of you.

Making out.

 

[Fuchsdh]

I'm pretty sure many Puerto Ricans would prefer not to be colonized, if given the choice.

I really don't think we're forcing them to stay at this point. I'm sure they're getting the better end of the deal.