bobs...onGaf
Member
mescalineeyes said:
That situation happens a LOT, especially in multikill scenario's. Either let the overkill escape or try and get lucky
punk
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Halo: Reach Beta Thread
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
That situation happens a LOT, especially in multikill scenario's. Either let the overkill escape or try and get lucky
Gui_PT said:
Exactly, when people are at close distance, and you have no choice but to fight each other, it turns into an awkward mess. I try to time my shots, because hey, that's what I'm supposed to do right? Well, majority of the time, they spam and kill me, or the opposite happens, I spam them while they're timing.
Win, lose, or draw, it doesn't matter to me. I can get 30 kills in a game and feel completely unsatisfied because of the bloom mechanics. Maybe it works correctly over LAN, but with lag, it is random, and I've never been a fan of random in Halo. I thought the BR was random in 3, heh boy.
Diablohead
Member
Since melee's damage the generators nicely I keep getting into the habbit of whacking them once my gun's clip is empty or hot instead of waiting for my gun to reload, plenty of suicides :lol though one time I also took out two spartans rushing in to raise the shield 
Experienced some lag where my movements have a delay and pause but it was still plenty playable, such a fun game mode, but you need a good team who know how to change their spawn... too many elites will spawn up in the hills instead of spawning at the bridge.
Oh and grabbing a shotty from a dead spartan is real punishment on those generators, kills them so quickly!
Experienced some lag where my movements have a delay and pause but it was still plenty playable, such a fun game mode, but you need a good team who know how to change their spawn... too many elites will spawn up in the hills instead of spawning at the bridge.
Oh and grabbing a shotty from a dead spartan is real punishment on those generators, kills them so quickly!
Chip N Chance
Member
I pretty much feel the same as everyone ells in terms of lag in NT1. It kinda feels like CoD's net code, where depending on every ones connection, the input delay is effected. That's how MW2 always felt to me anyway. You get one guy in there that's red baring, and my button presses are delayed about a second. Which sucks. Network Test 1 aside, Halo Reach doesn't have this problem at all. Reach's online code is without a doubt the best Ive seen on consoles.
Yeah I guess, but it would be useless on Sword Base which is the map I've encountered it the most on.Dax01 said:
And don't get me started on how there are way too many anti-vehicle weapons in this game :lol Average lifespan in a vehicle in Reach must be 15-20 seconds at most.
Hydranockz
Member
But... the DMR and pistol, when 'relaxed' are totally accurate. No randomness. that only comes into play when you shoot sequentially. It's risk/reward if anything. Do I take the risk to get more shots off in the hope that I finish him first or do I take the time to control my shots and be assured the hits. Close quarters doesn't always mean spamming will work. It's a controlled random so to speak that adds a skillful depth to the hitscan weapons.Ramirez said:
Diablohead said:Since melee's damage the generators nicely I keep getting into the habbit of whacking them once my gun's clip is empty or hot instead of waiting for my gun to reload, plenty of suicides :lol though one time I also took out two spartans rushing in to raise the shield
Experienced some lag where my movements have a delay and pause but it was still plenty playable, such a fun game mode, but you need a good team who know how to change their spawn... too many elites will spawn up in the hills instead of spawning at the bridge.
Oh and grabbing a shotty from a dead spartan is real punishment on those generators, kills them so quickly!
My one Generator game had me luckily being near the canister drop and getting a sniper (was hoping for a rocket, though :lol ). Seemed like two clips got it down with a few other hits on it (much faster than being a bitch to the other team and pinging it with the Nerfle like I was :lol )
bobs...onGaf
Member
Hydranockz said:
Close range its still very messy though, what if both players decide to spam? Should one get killed? They both made the same decision, why should one guy win? Feels too much like a coin toss to me.
Hydranockz said:
Bologna, there are times when someone is right in front of me with a DMR, and they can spam me to death in a matter of 2-3 seconds. I know this is probably all related to who is host, which is why it's frustrating. The host has a big enough advantage as it is, why are we adding more stuff in?
Checking your stuff out, you have Melee across all 3 gametypes as your TOD as well. :lol If the gunplay is so perfect guys, why are you all relying on other means of getting kills as your main weapon?
I would rather them fire slower, and be more predictable than it feeling like a crap shoot.
mescalineeyes
Banned
you guys do realize that if it wasn't for the bloom, the weapons would fire slower, right?
also, bloom being a problem in close quarter gunfights? shouldn't your enemy being near no compensate for the loss of precision?!
also, bloom being a problem in close quarter gunfights? shouldn't your enemy being near no compensate for the loss of precision?!
Subtervotion
Member
Ramirez said:
You forgot to mention my Pistol kills.
Shotgun 268
Needle Rifle 268
Pistol 248
Melee 179
I also have 140 with the DMR. I worry about bloom PLENTY. But yes, the Shotgun is probably my gun of choice. I like to get up close and personal. I use radar to my advantage to sneak up to opponents, then take them out with a shotgun blast.
Edit: We rely on Melee, because sometimes that's how we finish people off. Shotgun + melee does wonders. You already know I love the shotty, how many of my melee kills were accompanied with a shotgun blast first? Who knows. Also, When people try to double melee me, I have to retaliate. A would bet a lot of people trade kills this way a lot.
The Librarian
Banned
So? Then just remove it.pringles said:
While I agree that anti-vehicle weapons in Reach are far too powerful and plenty, I'm hardly ever killed by the plasma launcher on Boneyard.
Hydranockz
Member
Because the DMR is a fucking long range weapon. You want to to be short range too? I don't even use the DMR all that much as I like to get in close and abuse the melee systemRamirez said:
DMR, at range, time he shots. Kills roll in. Pistol, medium range, pulse the shots. Kills roll in. Melee, short range, mash tat shit. Kills roll in.bobs...onGaf
Member
mescalineeyes said:
At full bloom the reticule definatly covers more than just the spartan at close range, yet spamming still works. =(
I would actually prefer the weapons had a set firing rate, thats how it was in the past and I enjoyed it more that way, felt 'fairer'.
Can't remember if I've posted this in here already but last weekend I played a few games of invasion with my friend. Absolutely hated it and found it a complete bore compared to what I'd expected through the media released. Since then, I've been back twice and have played probably 3/4 more hours of Reach.
I feel like I can say, with no reservations, that I don't like this game at all. It's weird, the Halo 3 beta (Personally) was better than Halo 3 in certain ways and made me a slobbering fool who bought it on launch day, but Halo 3 was still freaking amazing online and I'm sure it's the MP game I've invested the most time into by a large margin.
This beta singlehandedly crushed any interest I had in Reach in 4 playings. Dramatic, I know, but it's the truth.
I feel like I can say, with no reservations, that I don't like this game at all. It's weird, the Halo 3 beta (Personally) was better than Halo 3 in certain ways and made me a slobbering fool who bought it on launch day, but Halo 3 was still freaking amazing online and I'm sure it's the MP game I've invested the most time into by a large margin.
This beta singlehandedly crushed any interest I had in Reach in 4 playings. Dramatic, I know, but it's the truth.
Hydranockz said:Because the DMR is a fucking long range weapon. You want to to be short range too? I don't even use the DMR all that much as I like to get in close and abuse the melee system
What's with GAF and the Pro Tips these days? I know how to play the game, doesn't make the system suck any less.
^ It's not that dramatic really, the game is really nothing like the past 3. I've yet to come across anyone who has played more games than me (total shock honestly), and even though I've played a ton of games, my hype is at 0 for the final game. There is just so much to tighten up before this game even comes close to 2 or 3.
bobs99 ... said:
At close range you should be hitting your trigger as fast as possible. There is little reason, save for your final shot, to wait.
RefigeKru said:
It made me interested in Halo MP again. I guess you could call the beta "polarizing."
Hydranockz
Member
I wasn't doubting your pro skillz. I just find a lot of gripe ariss when players take the guns out of their niches.Ramirez said:
I honestly don't mind the bloom mechanics, and I do think it's a differentiator in skill. But I don't think it's necessary, because Halo's gameplay has always had enough basis in skill already. It complicates what has historically been an elegant combat system.
Imagine if the bloom was gone and the DMR and Magnum each had a fixed firing rate, the DMR a bit slower than the Magnum, which would keep its current recoil. Everything else about them would remain the same as current. The DMR would remain the superior weapon at long range, the Magnum powerful at close and mid. The single-shot weapons, plus the minimum five-shot kill and reduced aim assist, already means they will take more skill to use than the BR with its burst fire, as you need to land more shots more accurately. And there would be the added layer of knowing when to use which.
I think it would be a more satisfying experience than what we have now.
Imagine if the bloom was gone and the DMR and Magnum each had a fixed firing rate, the DMR a bit slower than the Magnum, which would keep its current recoil. Everything else about them would remain the same as current. The DMR would remain the superior weapon at long range, the Magnum powerful at close and mid. The single-shot weapons, plus the minimum five-shot kill and reduced aim assist, already means they will take more skill to use than the BR with its burst fire, as you need to land more shots more accurately. And there would be the added layer of knowing when to use which.
I think it would be a more satisfying experience than what we have now.
Darkflight
Member
Wow, just wow. The turret assisted jump is just ridiculous.bobs99 ... said:
Ramirez said:
I think that those of us who don't like the bloom mechanic feel that way because, to us, the player who has better (and quicker) aiming abilities should be able to kill someone whether their opponent gets the drop on them or not. If I have quicker aim, and that aim is accurate, then why should I not be able to utilize that skill to "out-play" my opponent? My abilities shouldn't be interfered with by adding some randomized bloom factor to mess with my chances of coming out of an encounter that I would've otherwise won (or had a good chance to win).
In previous Halo games, if someone got the drop on you, you still had a chance. In this game, that's rarely the case - and this is largely because of the bloom.
A large portion of those who do like the bloom probably feel that way because they used to lose a lot of one-on-one battles, due to their inferior (in accuracy or speed or both) aiming abilities. The bloom has leveled that playing field.
But why add a handicap? It's stupid. Pair people up with opponents of equal skill through matchmaking instead. Don't randomize the game so people of lesser skill can "artificially" compete with people who know how to aim quickly and accurately.
bobs...onGaf
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Well it was implimented to help weapons fit into niche's, and I think it does that fairly well when it comes to long range, but Bungie you cant stop me using a DMR effectivly close range that easily. :lol (but you can make close range combat a spam game).
BenzMoney said:
I dont mind the bloom so much in a 1v1 scenario, but it does go a long way into killing the clutch gameplay I play Halo for, essentially your being forced to slow down which goes against Halo when its at its most fun. Halo 3 is AMAZING when you kill a enemy, turn a corner fight another enemy, kill him then a 3rd guy comes etc etc etc. Bloom forces you to slow down, reticule bloom feels like the equivelent of a speed hump on a racing track.
and please lets move away from a lern2playthegame mentality and a more gameplay flow mentality when analysing things, im already pretty good at using the bloom to my advantage and it keeps me alive more than anything, doesnt make it fun though!
I'd be curious to see how the headshot hitbox tweak will change all of this. I do feel however that sometimes I'll be shooting a guy, trying to get that final headshot and it just won't fucking give it to me. I feel sometimes like my headshot depends on the bloom itself and not where the bullet hits. Like it's an RPG and there are hit/miss percentages and shit. It isn't as consistent as I'd like it to be. Other than that, I fucking love it. I love its range and accuracy over great distances. I love that I can shoot it pretty fast mid to close range and get those 4 shots to pop the shields. Unless my shots don't register :/ Count your shots everyone!
See I don't see it this way. The skill gap between the best and worst players in Reach will be much bigger than it is in Halo 3. This bloom just adds another layer of difficulty. The game is hard to play, a lot harder than Halo 3. While sometimes it's a little janky, I have faith that it will better in the final game.
Benzmoney said:
See I don't see it this way. The skill gap between the best and worst players in Reach will be much bigger than it is in Halo 3. This bloom just adds another layer of difficulty. The game is hard to play, a lot harder than Halo 3. While sometimes it's a little janky, I have faith that it will better in the final game.
PedroLumpy
Member
Do Halo players play other shooters? Bloom, recoil, whatever you want to call it has been in so many other shooters, and I have never heard it described as it is here. I'm not gonna make a value judgment on if it actually belongs in Halo, it's just so surprising to hear after playing with recoil ever since ... like ... Duke 3d maybe?
So I'm pretty much finished playing the Beta because I won't have the time anymore.
At this moment I'm positive I liked the Halo 3 beta (and obviously the final game) more than my 200+ game experience with the Reach beta, there are a lot of reasons as to why (that have been beaten to death in this thread) I feel this way but most importantly I just don't see Reach being as fun of a multi-player experience as Halo 3 was and still is.
That said, I'm still excited for the final game, not necessarily because of the tweaks from the beta to the final copy, but more importantly because of the scope of all that will be included. More maps, more matchmaking options, forge, custom games, campaign and of course some yet to be revealed stuff. I'm still pretty hyped.
At this moment I'm positive I liked the Halo 3 beta (and obviously the final game) more than my 200+ game experience with the Reach beta, there are a lot of reasons as to why (that have been beaten to death in this thread) I feel this way but most importantly I just don't see Reach being as fun of a multi-player experience as Halo 3 was and still is.
That said, I'm still excited for the final game, not necessarily because of the tweaks from the beta to the final copy, but more importantly because of the scope of all that will be included. More maps, more matchmaking options, forge, custom games, campaign and of course some yet to be revealed stuff. I'm still pretty hyped.
Diablohead
Member
Halo 3 has aged so quickly, it's upsetting and scary especially after playing reach for the last 2 weeks.
bobs99 said:
This is my biggest gripe. It's not like adding the bloom has all the sudden rendered me ineffective for 1v1 - its that it's limited my ability to go clutch like before, and move from enemy-to-enemy quickly and efficiently. The small clip size doesn't help either.
Like you said - it forces you to bail out of situations where you normally could've done something incredible (and THAT is what makes Halo fun). If I'm more accurate than my enemies, and can aim faster than they can, then let me do so. Don't handicap me just for the sake of "leveling things out" (you do that by putting me against better players in matchmaking).
bobs...onGaf
Member
PedroLumpy said:
I play tons of other shooters, bloom works better in the more realistic ones because typically people die very quickly anyway, also other games are played at a slower pace than Halo, I think its a good mechanic, but it just doesnt suit Halo.
So yeah I agree with you, bloom/ recoil etc isnt a bad thing when used in a game that suits it. It adds to other games a lot, CoD without movement bloom or the ADS mechanic would probably suck. However I personally just dont think it suits Halo.
BenzMoney said:
Exactly!
Although I will say, Bloom wasnt meant to level the playing field, it was actually designed to increase the skill gap, and to help weapons fit into niche's. I guess it works as intended and Bungie have done a good job at hitting theyre design goals, I dont like it but Reach certainly appeals to a larger audiance.
Diablohead I agree, Reach makes Halo 3 look like a cartoon. :lol Visually Reach is amazing, and they still somehow kept the colour pallette, really amazing job there!
les papillons sexuels
Banned
i love the recoil in close battles, just aim at the chest, eventually the xhair hits the head and all is forgiven. (and yes, rapid firing does cause your aim to move upwards, hence why I use the term recoil)
PedroLumpy
Member
bobs99 ... said:
I really think the lengthening of the time it takes to kill someone is the key here. The longer kills take, the harder (in general) it is to take on multiple opponents at the same time. Halo has always been on the longer end of that scale, perhaps they've thrown that balance off.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
PedroLumpy said:
I disagree with this, I think it helps specialize the guns, bring the right weapon into the fight, place the right nades and you can easily walk away with the double or triple.
I think people are just pissed that the the DMR isn't the BR which could be used at any range except melee 90% of the time.
PedroLumpy said:
The time to kill between a perfectly executed Battle Rifle kill in Halo 3 and a perfectly executed DMR kill in the Reach beta is measured in tenths of a second. The beta Magnum is nearly twice as fast as both. The key difference is that you can fire at a rate that falls outside of the optimal cadence.
Shake Appeal
Member
Yeah, sure, fine, but what about all this anecdotal evidence I keep hearing about?
bobs...onGaf
Member
urk said:
Theres an exponential increase in effective RoF on Reach though, going up against a second player after killing someone leaves you at a disadvantage, even if you took no damage. The next guy will always have the advantage in terms of bloom.
Switching weapons against a good player who has a fully loaded DMR with no bloom is suicide, nades and even secondary weapons arent always available, I agree that it helps balance the sandbox and put weapons into niche's, im just not sure that I find the side effects of that very exciting.
Im not too sure why I made this post, I see the pro's and its here too stay, just putting my opinion down.
Diablohead
Member
Pistol nerf for final? I am a sad panda if so!urk said:
mescalineeyes
Banned
god knows the pistol doesn't need to be nerfed. if anything, the AR needs a bit of a buff. it's pretty useless as it is.
I can't imagine a matchup where the AR would win.
I can't imagine a matchup where the AR would win.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
We need a HaloGAF Mythbusters episode about the perceived differences from Halo 3 and the actual differences. I can see many folks assumptions exploding before their eyes.
Diablohead
Member
I can now sleep happy tonight like it's christmas eve.urk said: