Support NeoGAF

[Mush]

Well I rendered the first one before I noticed it was a full game, cost 10 render points opps. Can't do the second one, gotta save some points for myself- Enjoy!

Sorry dude I'm new to the whole Bungie Pro thing haha. Anything I can do for you in return?

 

[thunker 9000]

:lol

I'm still not sure if I believe Urk on that one. At least, you can't see it in the reticule.

The bloom closes faster when crouched. <3

 

[Lazslo]

Sorry dude I'm new to the whole Bungie Pro thing haha. Anything I can do for you in return?

No worries mang, if you want some clips in the HaloGaf Reach Dongtage send me some clips via PM and I'll render those guys for you.

 

[FilthyLies]

The bloom closes faster when crouched. <3

</3

do not want

I don't have too much beef with the bloom, but something like that which deliberately slows down player movement in exchange for improved firing ability makes me smh. Mobility has always been a core tenet to Halo, you should never have to sacrifice that for performance.

 

[Tashi]

What if we're just not good at the game yet?

 

[EazyB]

Guy, I like you.

I get that a lot around here.

What if we're just not good at the game yet?

Yeah, we just need to keep playing until we've logged enough time in to understand the game and play as well as the folk at Bungie.

 

[NameGenerated]

Many thanks to whoever rendered my clip, looked back but couldn't find who did it.

 

[Striker]

Thank you.

I like the game, let me enjoy it. I'm not trying to fight with anyone just for the sake of it. We share a common hobby, and I'm not trying to be some sort of fucking messiah here but I'd like to be able to argue a point that ultimately may change the perceptions of someone who currently disagrees. That probably won't happen, but at least don't shit on the fun I'm having.

Re-reading the Halo 3 Beta thread, times of those days were more friendly, posters helped out strangers with questions, and the said strangers offered to join up in the parties if the timing permitted. Gamers talked of their games the past night or throughout the day, it was terrific. The Rick Roll meme appeared a ton in the youtube links, fun days. Some of those posters are now gone from GAF (banned), but point still stands, few of those same posters from the thread still post today commonly. And you come back to read this, especially the latter half of the thread's pages. "Remove bloom!", "Increase my turtle speed to a slightly faster turtle speed!", and quite frankly more angst and bitterness than anything else.

 

[Heretic]

Waiting on who's going to start the "Fire Sage" rally with all these game play complaints.

Still haven't got the hang of the new changes and dislike the bloom but i'm a sucker for anything Halo/Bungie and will get the game anyway. i'm sure i'll adjust to the changes. I'm glad i played the beta. I would have hated the game for a while if i had to deal with the changes come launch time. now i know what i'm getting into and look forward to the final game including campaign. I wish i played more though.

 

[EazyB]

I have a Bnet suggestion. The update to Bnet has been pretty good all around but some of its features aren't properly calibrated to contain how awesome I am at killing scrubs in Grab Bag.

Here's my suggested Bnet revision:

 

[Ajemsuhgao]

Would someone kindly render this for me? http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1360566

Game of Invasion, I'm on the Elite team, and end up scoring it in the final 2 seconds. After scoring, my weapon completely disappears and I'm stuck walking around with my arms straight behind my back, like this:

 

[chapel]

Is 331 games enough to say that I like it? It should be right?

Spoiler

i love reach!

Oh Gosh!

Spoiler

>400 Enough? I like bloom and am loving reach!

I have a Bnet suggestion. The update to Bnet has been pretty good all around but some of its features aren't properly calibrated to contain how awesome I am at killing scrubs in Grab Bag.

Here's my suggested Bnet revision:

I don't know, then it would show all my epic red losses.

BTW why haven't you sen't me any clips?

HaloGAF Reach Beta Montage - Call For Clips!

PM me RENDERED clips that you would like to see in the montage. Can be anywhere from awesome kills to hilarious moments. Deadline is the 19th!!!

 

[Tashi]

Just played some more grab bag and Invasion Slayer. DMR is in full effect. I actually got out BR'd pretty hard from one guy though. It was embarrassing actually. I made sure I destroyed him and tea-bagged him the rest of the match though. Just so he knows that I'm still better lolol.

I just noticed though, in the 2nd Tier of Invasion Slayer the best loadout I've seen from this game yet. DMR + Magnum. At tier 3 though, the awesome magnum changes into a shitty AR (((((

Also, if you look at your stats page. The link at the top says bungie.net/blahblahblah.gamertag&vc=someNumber. When someNumber is 1, it's Invasion, when it's 2, it's Arena. 3 = Standard but then Custom = 6. If you type in 4 and 5, it defaults to Standard. What could those be? Arena FFA? Firefight? Things that make you say hmmmmm.

 

[feel]

Wtf EazyB, took a look at your Service Record, fuckin impressive, you guys are totally destroying everyone game after game, hard to believe you hate the game...

 

[Plywood]

Wtf EazyB, took a look at your Service Record, fuckin impressive, you guys are totally destroying everyone game after game, hard to believe you hate the game...

"I fucking hate that I'm winning"

alternatively,

"I hate fucking winning this way"

:lol

 

[UltimaPooh]

He is the one that used the poured hundreds of hours argument. But I am done, no need to explain why I hate the bloom to people new to Halo.

You do realize you used the same argument against me? And I also proved you wrong because I was around for Halo 3 and ODST... My join date is 2006.

Memory is not your strong suit.

 

[chapel]

Just played some more grab bag and Invasion Slayer. DMR is in full effect. I actually got out BR'd pretty hard from one guy though. It was embarrassing actually. I made sure I destroyed him and tea-bagged him the rest of the match though. Just so he knows that I'm still better lolol.

I just noticed though, in the 2nd Tier of Invasion Slayer the best loadout I've seen from this game yet. DMR + Magnum. At tier 3 though, the awesome magnum changes into a shitty AR (((((

Also, if you look at your stats page. The link at the top says bungie.net/blahblahblah.gamertag&vc=someNumber. When someNumber is 1, it's Invasion, when it's 2, it's Arena. 3 = Standard but then Custom = 6. If you type in 4 and 5, it defaults to Standard. What could those be? Arena FFA? Firefight? Things that make you say hmmmmm.

You owe me some clips as well.

 

[Nutter]

You do realize you used the same argument against me? And I also proved you wrong because I was around for Halo 3 and ODST... My join date is 2006.

Memory is not your strong suit.

Yeah that makes you OLD SCHOOL dude!

 

[EazyB]

Wtf EazyB, took a look at your Service Record, fuckin impressive, you guys are totally destroying everyone game after game, hard to believe you hate the game...

Only slightly impressive seeing as trueskill seems to be pretty nonexistent but there were a handful of tough matches in there, lots that looked these (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10) though :lol

It's not that I hate the game. Just more disappointed than I thought I'd ever be with a Bungie title. Been playing the shit out of it nonetheless because I wanna understand why Bungie thought these changes improved the game and wash my expectations coming from Halo 3 completely out. Still, half of the online experience is playing with swell people so even though the game's giving me grief game in and game out it's fun to laugh at it with everyone else.


Anways, could someone render this clip of me getting a dreamcrusher? Thanks

And I can't help but wonder why all these bloom supporters have melee as their tools of destruction :lol

BTW why haven't you sen't me any clips?

Been meaning to do so, figured I'd wait until closer to the deadline as I'm still pooping on bad kids and racking up clips. I'll PM what I have now but there may be more before the deadline is up.

 

[Tashi]

You owe me some clips as well.

Yeaaaaaa...about that

lol

Anways, could someone render this clip of me getting a dreamcrusher? Thanks

And I can't help but wonder why all these bloom supporters have melee as their tools of destruction

Rendering...

Not me

 

[Plywood]

And I can't help but wonder why all these bloom supporters have melee as their tools of destruction.

The joy of running up one someone's ass and smacking it, then running off is incredible. This applies in real life too.

 

[EazyB]

Rendering...

Not me

There's always an exception

That and you've avoided competitive matches in the beta (although for other reasons) which definitely alleviates some of the frustration. Who needs consistency in quickly killing players when your opponents aren't good enough to put that necessary pressure on you?

Thanks for the render.

 

[KevinRo]

And I can't help but wonder why all these bloom supporters have melee as their tools of destruction :lol

I think the Bloom or Reticule Spread is an interesting idea that has yet to fully be explained to the community regarding accuracy.

I think it's a good idea. Just sometimes wonder where does Bungie draw the line between skill and luck.

Also, the melee is not my tool of destruction.

 

[chapel]

And I can't help but wonder why all these bloom supporters have melee as their tools of destruction :lol

Maybe its that we aren't as good as you, but still enjoy the game. Maybe not playing at the higher level keeps us from seeing the bloom as a bad thing. Maybe its us that are getting those 'lucky' kills on you.

I do see how bloom gives a bit of randomness that gives lesser skilled people a chance to get kills, but it also rewards those players that use it how its intended (other than a few occasions up close pistol on pistol). Is it just that higher level players don't enjoy lesser skilled players having a chance against them? So would increasing the randomness of the pistol if fired faster than the bloom can recover so that it has less of a chance to hit someone suffice?

I personally like bloom because it makes long range combat require a little more skill. If they remove bloom, say goodbye to the pistol being anything decent.

 

[Tashi]

There's always an exception

That and you've avoided competitive matches in the beta (although for other reasons) which definitely alleviates some of the frustration. Who needs consistency in quickly killing players when your opponents aren't good enough to put that necessary pressure on you?

Thanks for the render.

Nah, you're right. Anytime I do play Arena it's when the people I'm playing with really wanna play it. I've had success, only 16 games played though. Lately I've been playing alone however so it's been Grab bag and Invasion with no mic. I've had some competitive oddball and stockpile matches in grab bag though.

Also, I love the way the announcer says Dream Crusher. It's bad ass. I wish it was for something other than Hammer though, I'll never get that :lol

 

[KidA Seven]

The bloom, movement, and jumping really detract from the experience for me, but even then it's good enough to buy. It just doesn't look to deliver as compelling an experience as their previous games at this point.

Pretty much this.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Well I rendered the first one before I noticed it was a full game, cost 10 render points opps. Can't do the second one, gotta save some points for myself- Enjoy!

Also, ToyMachine- I rendered these clips for you and sent them to Chap. Nice kills mang.

Thank you sir!

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Bloom is supposed to add randomness. Its a punishment for using a weapon improperly.

Shooting a pistol at insane speeds SHOULDN'T work as well as taking your time with shots.

You still have the option to do it, and a chance that it might work, but your chances go up as you approach a rate of fire consistent with the weapon's purpose.

It's the same principle that Bungie used to keep players from running around no-scoping with the sniper in Halo 3 (fixed from Halo 2), only now its being applied to mid-range weapons as well as that long-range weapon and it's being visualized.

Its a shame how often spamming works then isnt it? Waiting for the bloom to go down against a spammer is like asking to die. I understand the idea that bloom at close range is supposed to benifit the spammer, but thats not... fun.

I also find it funny how with Reach theres a shut up and put up attitude - You dont like aspect X of the game? Well STFU deal with it. It does seem like most people have given up vocalizing theyre opinion and are just like meh screw it.

Or maybe Stop and Pop vs. Run and Gun.

While fire-rate reticule bloom doesn't quite make Reach Stop and Pop, it's coming uncomfortably close. Slow down and take your shot carefully? That's never been Halo. Ever. There's plenty o' Stop and Pop shooters on the market. Get that shit out of my Haloz.

The day they go all the way Stop and Pop, adding movement-rate reticule bloom to Halo, is the day I give it up forever.

FYI, Crouching reduces bloom, time to cancel that pre-order! :lol

I agree with what you say, if I wanted 'stop and pop' I would play other games, I have stuck with Halo all these years for its unique brand of gameplay, but it seems like its getting watered down a bit =(

P.S. Eazy is good at the game proven by his stats, that proves he's being genuinly honest andisnt just struggling with a hard mechanic, so can we stop with the pro-tips, hating bloom isnt the same as not being able to use it well.

 

[The Librarian]

On bloom:
I love it for the AR and PR.
I don't like it for the DMR/Nerfle/Pistol. As Spasm said, it take Halo dangerously close to a stop 'n' pop shooter, something it's never been. It's really lessened the pace of the multiplayer.

Spoiler

Campaign ftw.

 

[Gui_PT]

The Spartan needs to be on ground and the Elite in the air. Just jump before you're executing the assassination and it should happen.

Really? I don't remember jumping at all =\

It makes sense that you'd have to be in the air though

 

[Kapura]

I also find it funny how with Reach theres a shut up and put up attitude - You dont like aspect X of the game? Well STFU deal with it. It does seem like most people have given up vocalizing theyre opinion and are just like meh screw it.

It could be, you know, that people who aren't vocalising their opinion simply don't have things to complain about. For me personally, the only bad part of the beta is the vehicle combat in invasion. Everything else I like or at least understand and agree with the logic, save a few minor UI things that I posted in their respective feedback threads on Bnet.

 

[Shake Appeal]

There's always an exception

There's at least two. Got my pistol and DMR as ToD in every playlist except Invasion, where it's DMR and Nerfle.

 

[MMaRsu]

Hey guys ^^

Can anyone render this awesome noscope headshot I made?

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1362587

That would be sooo good . Just like that noscope.. .

Thanks in advance!!

 

[Louis Wu]

Its a shame how often spamming works then isnt it? Waiting for the bloom to go down against a spammer is like asking to die. I understand the idea that bloom at close range is supposed to benifit the spammer, but thats not... fun.

Heh - I can certainly see where the argument against trigger-spamming comes from, in midrange fights... but seriously? You're complaining about trigger-spamming at CLOSE RANGE now?

(I remember in Halo 1, when fights between evenly-matched opponents at a relatively close range were decided by who could pull the trigger faster - and I remember getting derided for having old fingers that simply didn't work as quickly as the people who were killing me. And now I'm hearing about how those folks who can pull the trigger really fast are 'spammers', an OBVIOUSLY derogatory term. Times (and arguments) change...)

Can anyone render this awesome noscope headshot I made?

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1362587

Rendering.

 

[Kibbles]

On bloom:
I love it for the AR and PR.
I don't like it for the DMR/Nerfle/Pistol. As Spasm said, it take Halo dangerously close to a stop 'n' pop shooter, something it's never been. It's really lessened the pace of the multiplayer.

Spoiler

Campaign ftw.

I'm going to agree with Dax on this one. While getting kills with the DMR is satisfying, it's also frustrating at times and seems completely non-halo.

 

[Darkflight]

Hey guys ^^

Can anyone render this awesome noscope headshot I made?

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=1362587

That would be sooo good . Just like that noscope.. .

Thanks in advance!!

Done
Edit: Bah, beaten :lol

 

[SonOfABeep]

It seems like the bloom argument is one for increasing the bloom so that the random spam shots are less effective or require you to be closer for them to be effective.

I always thought that the pistol bloom was bungie's way of reducing the effectiveness of the Pistol at range so it wasn't an all-around destroyer of worlds.

I think that increasing the bloom effect and maybe slightly reducing the wait time for the reticule would help with some of the complaints. Spammers would have to be right in your face to get lucky body shots, which would get them in trouble with a melee and give the person timing their shots a closer and easier head target.

Does that make sense? I think it's just fine how it is now. You have to be pretty close to spam those shots, but i'm not playing as a career either.

 

[Louis Wu]

Done
Edit: Bah, beaten :lol

Wow, makes me wonder if we both got charged a minute for this...

 

[Darkflight]

Wow, makes me wonder if we both got charged a minute for this...

Don't think so - still got the 2 minutes I had before I kicked it off.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Wow, makes me wonder if we both got charged a minute for this...

Well, Activision have to make their money somehow..

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Heh - I can certainly see where the argument against trigger-spamming comes from, in midrange fights... but seriously? You're complaining about trigger-spamming at CLOSE RANGE now?

(I remember in Halo 1, when fights between evenly-matched opponents at a relatively close range were decided by who could pull the trigger faster - and I remember getting derided for having old fingers that simply didn't work as quickly as the people who were killing me. And now I'm hearing about how those folks who can pull the trigger really fast are 'spammers', an OBVIOUSLY derogatory term. Times (and arguments) change...)

Rendering.

Well I wasnt using 'spammer' as a degoratory term, thats just what they do, they spam. I spam, im not ashamed to admit it. :lol

Most of my multiplayer experience from Halo 1 came from the PC side (not sure why thats different), but I didnt really notice close range pistol spam in that? Theres no way im more knoledgable about Halo 1 than you, so fair enough, close range Pistol spam may have classically been a part of the game.

Despite this, I just dont find it fun, Halo 3 close range is actually quite tense, when your just outside melee range, but still pretty much face to face you have a pretty intense challenge on your hands. The extreme close range BR battles are really satisfying and even when I lose - fair enough. Close range pistol spam on Reach just doesnt sit right with me, essentially suceeding in Reach isnt about outplaying your opponent at close range, its almost just going through the motions, you may aswell both have shotguns. At close range spamming 4 body shots then waiting for the headshot is ideally what I would like, but in reality the guy who spams his whole clip seems to get lucky more often than not.

Now I understand reticule bloom, I fully understand why it was implimented, and it does a good job of stopping weapons like the DMR or Pistol dominating at range, but it certainly wasnt a mechanic which was designed with fun in mind? As a byproduct they probably expect the game to be better and to be more fun, but I do think close range combat just beyond melee range suffers. Same as the movement changes, movement was clearly balanced for AA's, but it wasnt balanced with fun in mind, the AA balance is where the extra fun comes from (if that makes sense).

Spoiler

gulp, feels like talking back to the headteacher

P.S. Im not sure I agree with Fyrewulff's analysis, I cant talk about the Halo 1 pistol, but the Halo 2 BR was deadly accurate (he only analysed the Halo 2 Pistol), even the Halo 3 BR promises that the first shot will hit from each burst pin point?

Essentially bloom is the exponential decrease in accuracy as shots are fired, I dont think the Halo 3 BR spread or the Halo 1 Pistol behaved like that.

 

[Popeck]

Really? I don't remember jumping at all =\

It makes sense that you'd have to be in the air though

I think it can also happen accidentally because the game might think you're in the air even though you are on the ground. Sometimes I've made the neck breaking assassination with Spartan on a Spartan even though I most certainly didn't jump. Same goes for the Air-to-Air assassinations.

 

[Louis Wu]

Spoiler

gulp, feels like talking back to the headteacher

Nah, if you ask guys like Eazy, or Ram, or Nutter, I don't know crap, because I haven't played enough games, and because I suck. No worries about talking back.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Nah, if you ask guys like Eazy, or Ram, or Nutter, I don't know crap, because I haven't played enough games, and because I suck. No worries about talking back.

... I have a mutual respect for the guys on here, even the ones that like aspects of Reach which I dont, we can all have a grown up discussion right? Essentially analysing gameplay mechanics of Reach in a 'adult' manner is far better than just not bothering.

Spoiler

What am I thinking, its the internet!

You may not be 'pro' (despite what your tag says :lol ) but you know 'Halo'.

 

[metareferential]

Close range pistol spam on Reach just doesnt sit right with me, essentially suceeding in Reach isnt about outplaying your opponent at close range, its almost just going through the motions, you may aswell both have shotguns. At close range spamming 4 body shots then waiting for the headshot is ideally what I would like, but in reality the guy who spams his whole clip seems to get lucky more often than not.

Now I understand reticule bloom, I fully understand why it was implimented, and it does a good job of stopping weapons like the DMR or Pistol dominating at range, but it certainly wasnt a mechanic which was designed with fun in mind? As a byproduct they probably expect the game to be better and to be more fun, but I do think close range combat just beyond melee range suffers. Same as the movement changes, movement was clearly balanced for AA's, but it wasnt balanced with fun in mind, the AA balance is where the extra fun comes from (if that makes sense).

Maybe they could reduce the number of rounds in the clip to address that problem (if it is a problem indeed).

Now we have 12 rounds per clip. Reducing that to 8 or so could really balance things out between skillful and lucky players.

I mean, I aim for the head and pull the trigger as fast as I can: with 12 bullets, I can get lucky.

With 8, not so much. Just my 2 cents.

Though I have to say I perfectly enjoy the way the game is right now (for reference: in grab bag I still have melee as my tool of destruction; though magnum/dmr are rising in my stats; in invasion it's all about dmr/nerfle/magnum. But I'm an average/bad player, so I don't count xD).

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Maybe they could reduce the number of rounds in the clip to address that problem (if it is a problem indeed).

Now we have 12 rounds per clip. Reducing that to 8 or so could really balance things out between skillful and lucky players.

I mean, I aim for the head and pull the trigger as fast as I can: with 12 bullets, I can get lucky.

With 8, not so much. Just my 2 cents.

Though I have to say I perfectly enjoy the way the game is right now (for reference: in grab bag I still have melee as my tool of destruction; though magnum/dmr are rising in my stats; in invasion it's all about dmr/nerfle/magnum. But I'm an average/bad player, so I don't count xD).

Im pretty sure its 8 at the moment?

And thats another problem, to mitigate the problems caused by bloom you have to essentially balance other parts of the game to compensate for it, removing bullets per clip essentially slows the gameplay slightly, after getting 1 kill going after a second opponent is a bad idea unless you have a decent secondary weapon.

 

[Devin Olsen]

and I remember getting derided for having old fingers that simply didn't work as quickly as the people who were killing me.

So Halo: Reach is for old people?

It all makes sense now... :lol

This post aggravates me.

He is comparing the Halo 2 pistol to high accuracy weapons in Halo: Reach... The guy may as well compare the SMG to the BR, it is a ludicrous comparison. From what I can tell the spread/bloom did not exist in any of the previous Halo games on the high accuracy weapons the way it does today.

There may have been a spread on the other weapons: SMG, Halo 2 Pistol, Etc. But weapons like the Halo 1 Pistol, BR, Carbine... Those all shot true and within the reticule, as long as you didn't hold down the trigger.

 

[Gui_PT]

I think it can also happen accidentally because the game might think you're in the air even though you are on the ground. Sometimes I've made the neck breaking assassination with Spartan on a Spartan even though I most certainly didn't jump. Same goes for the Air-to-Air assassinations.

That would explain it. Thanks

 

[squidhands]

It could be, you know, that people who aren't vocalising their opinion simply don't have things to complain about. For me personally, the only bad part of the beta is the vehicle combat in invasion. Everything else I like or at least understand and agree with the logic, save a few minor UI things that I posted in their respective feedback threads on Bnet.

Oh, c'mon. Everyone loves the new Flying Eggshell.

Loved playing Generator Defense over the weekend (shame that I'm seeing so few friends playing the beta now, or the ones that are playing are already in a party). I immediately set my specs for a good connection and only had one or maybe two kind-of laggy games. Overlook is probably the sexiest-looking map I've seen so far; I can't frakking wait for the campaign.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

So Halo: Reach is for old people?

It all makes sense now... :lol

This post aggravates me.

He is comparing the Halo 2 pistol to high accuracy weapons in Halo: Reach... The guy may as well compare the SMG to the BR, it is a ludicrous comparison. From what I can tell the spread/bloom did not exist in any of the previous Halo games on the high accuracy weapons the way it does today.

There may have been a spread on the other weapons: SMG, Halo 2 Pistol, Etc. But weapons like the Halo 1 Pistol, BR, Carbine... Those all shot true and within the reticule, as long as you didn't hold down the trigger.

Yep I just loaded up Halo 1 PC and no matter where I shot the wall from on Longest the shots landed in the exact same place EVERY single time, all 12 shots.

Can anyone confirm that the Xbox version of Halo 1 is the same as in Fyre's analysis?

Yeah he also analyzed the Halo 2 BR - http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showpost.php?p=14899284&postcount=387

Not putting the guy down, but its funny how he shows his 'evidence' on HBO - Louis please tell me you reconsider that HBO front page post now.