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[Ramirez]

The maps are the most troubling thing for me, they haven't really nailed an amazing multiplayer map in a while. They need to go back to more symmetrical maps, look into Sanctuary for inspiration.

 

[Dirtbag]

I just hope it gets a good run before people stop playing it. I bet there will be some who, scarred from the beta, won't go near the final game

Any game the guys at bungie put 3 years into will always be worthy of a purchase for me. I have too much respect/faith in the studio to turn out a complete experience otherwise. Whether or not it becomes a classic in my eyes that withstands the test of time is another story, but anyone that would write off any release by a studio as successful as bungie just like that... well... I'm not really worried what they play.

The maps are the most troubling thing for me, they haven't really nailed an amazing multiplayer map in a while. They need to go back to more symmetrical maps, look into Sanctuary for inspiration.

They made some of the best large maps in the series in h3, but yeah h2 easily had the most complete/enjoyable map selection of the series.

 

[Tashi]

If they can get a handful of amazing multiplayer maps coupled with the right gametypes/loadouts, then yes, I can see this game ultimately taking the crown for Halo multiplayer. It gets me giddy just thinking about the glorious netcode and sandbox. BUT, they have to nail it with some multiplayer maps, and that's never seemed to be easy for them as of late.

I agree 100% here. I don't really like playing on the vast majority of the Halo 3 maps. My favorite Bungie made Halo 3 maps are, Pit, Construct, Narrows, Heretic, and I guess compared to the other maps in Halo 3 I would say Guardian as well. But that's really it.

I've been saying it all along but Forge has to absolutely be killer in Reach. I also think there NEEDS to be a Foundry/Sandbox type map at Launch but if not then in the first DLC pack and the great community maps have got to be put into rotation and given more spotlight.

@Ram...Sanctuary was the shit.

 

[ToyMachine228]

It's coming along- Chap's been working on it but it might be a couple of weeks before we see it- Probably around the first week of June I'm guessing.

Cool, thanks for the update, and thanks for you guys' hard work.

 

[The Librarian]

The maps are the most troubling thing for me, they haven't really nailed an amazing multiplayer map in a while. They need to go back to more symmetrical maps, look into Sanctuary for inspiration.

Given that most, if not all, of the MP maps are from campaign, or are made for MP then integrated in to campaign, I'm concerned for symmetrical maps.

 

[Dirtbag]

I agree 100% here. I don't really like playing on the vast majority of the Halo 3 maps. My favorite Bungie made Halo 3 maps are, Pit, Construct, Narrows, Heretic, and I guess compared to the other maps in Halo 3 I would say Guardian as well. But that's really it.

I've been saying it all along but Forge has to absolutely be killer in Reach. I also think there NEEDS to be a Foundry/Sandbox type map at Launch but if not then in the first DLC pack and the great community maps have got to be put into rotation and given more spotlight.

@Ram...Sanctuary was the shit.

Halo 3 maps

How can you talk about halo 3 maps and not mention Valhalla, Avalanche, and Standoff?

Given that most, if not all, of the MP maps are from campaign, or are made for MP then integrated in to campaign, I'm concerned for symmetrical maps.

Same here.

 

[Tashi]

Halo 3 maps

How can you talk about halo 3 maps and not mention Valhalla, Avalanche, and Standoff?

I mean sure, on the rare occasion that I play a playlist that contains Valhalla I enjoy it but not so much Avalanche and definitely not Standoff. But hey I have over 3000 MLG experience and in 2nd place is Team Slayer with about 150. I don't really play anything else.

Now, I'm open to more experiences that Reach may offer. I enjoyed Invasion and can dig NT1 but small, 4v4 maps are my thing. I mean, what if in the Invasion map, we could seal off a section and build a small, symmetrical 4v4 map with bases and all that good stuff. Wouldn't that be just fucking amazing?

 

[Dirtbag]

I mean sure, on the rare occasion that I play a playlist that contains Valhalla I enjoy it but not so much Avalanche and definitely not Standoff. But hey I have over 3000 MLG experience and in 2nd place is Team Slayer with about 150. I don't really play anything else.

Now, I'm open to more experiences that Reach may offer. I enjoyed Invasion and can dig NT1 but small, 4v4 maps are my thing. I mean, what if in the Invasion map, we could seal off a section and build a small, symmetrical 4v4 map with bases and all that good stuff. Wouldn't that be just fucking amazing?

I personally think Boneyard is a lost cause. It's just not a good mp map and the mode makes us fight in the least interesting spaces it has to offer.

If I had to rate the best maps in h3, for me would be

1). Valhalla
2). The Pit
3). High Ground
4). Avalanche
5). Standoff
6). Narrows
7). Guardian

Something along those lines.
H3 shined in flag games IMO.

 

[EazyB]

The maps are the most troubling thing for me, they haven't really nailed an amazing multiplayer map in a while. They need to go back to more symmetrical maps, look into Sanctuary for inspiration.

A proper map editor, as I've said before, would be more valuable than any other feature they could put in the MP. A proper spawning system for custom maps, lighting, and variety of textures.

Get some real resources dedicated to playing and choosing community maps and we'd be golden.

 

[Striker]

A proper map editor, as I've said before, would be more valuable than any other feature they could put in the MP. A proper spawning system for custom maps, lighting, and variety of textures.

Get some real resources dedicated to playing and choosing community maps and we'd be golden.

That's what I had wished for, but perhaps in 343's Halo game we may.

I'm anticipating the map reveals as much as the changes to the gameplay in Reach for fall. I suspect we'll get as much as we had for Halo 2 and Halo 3 in launch, as we'll gain more as DLC rolls; for our sake, though, I hope the hell we get more than Halo 2 and what Halo 3 used in MM. Those were around the 23-25 mark, and I would love around 27-28. In my world, have a mixture (symmetrical & asymmetrical) of 5-6 maps for 12+ players, a dozen or so maps that fit the symmetrical mold that can be great for the likes of Team Slayer, Multi-CTF, Assault, Neutral Assault, Team Headhunter, Stockpile, etc., and of course the asymmetrical maps that would fit the bill like Powerhouse for 1-CTF, 1-Bomb, and others like Oddball and KotH.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

If reach has a remake of The Pit and the only changes made are to accommodate the jump height, ill be happy

 

[Slightly Live]

If reach has a remake of The Pit and the only changes made are to accommodate the jump height, ill be happy

Some of the jump spots on The Pit are important and simply wouldn't work with Reach's Beta jump/movement. It would require precise and careful retooling to retain the same feel of the level from H3 in Reach.

If the Pit was in the Beta, practically every major jump spot wouldn't work and you'd have to use ramps to change elevation every single time (bar grav lifts) as every single walkway is too high for the Beta Spartan's jump height. :lol Years of knowing that map would be tossed out of the window instantly and the fan backlash would have dwarfed the Blackout/Lockout reaction.

As much as I want to see it, I'm very doubtful we'll ever see The Pit - in any recognisable form, in Reach. Prove me wrong Bungie. Please.

 

[Trasher]

I personally don't know if we will get any remakes for Reach. Bungie is probably betting on the community to recreate them with Reach's Forge.

 

[Slightly Live]

I personally don't know if we will get any remakes for Reach. Bungie is probably betting on the community to recreate them with Reach's Forge.

If Forge 2.0 is flexible enough to pump out solid remakes, everyone is a winner.

 

[Trasher]

If Forge 2.0 is flexible enough to pump out solid remakes, everyone is a winner.

If you think about it from Bungie's perspective, it's probably the smartest move for them. Just give us everything we need to do so! Then they never have to worry about the bitching that goes along with their map remakes. :lol

 

[Tashi]

If you think about it from Bungie's perspective, it's probably the smartest move for them. Just give us everything we need to do so! Then they never have to worry about the bitching that goes along with their map remakes. :lol

Yea but then we can just blame Shishka for not putting them into matchmaking

Spoiler

<3

 

[Lazslo]

Some of the jump spots on The Pit are important and simply wouldn't work with Reach's Beta jump/movement. It would require precise and careful retooling to retain the same feel of the level from H3 in Reach.

Just as a fun-fact: The Pit was the only level in H3 that Bungie never previewed or showed (except a mass-out in a vid-doc) on B-net before Release-I could be wrong about this. Maybe in Reach they will save the best for last too.

 

[Slightly Live]

Just as a fun-fact: The Pit was the only level in H3 that Bungie never previewed or showed (except a mass-out in a vid-doc) on B-net before Release-I could be wrong about this.

Really? Cool I suppose. I remember seeing it in a multiplayer Vidoc in an early stage, looked like they had all of the geometry nailed but none of the art/textures - it was fugly but probably played as well as the final product.

Can't wait until we get our next glimpse at what else Bungie cooking in the multiplayer kitchen.

 

[Ramirez]

Don't really care about any remakes, because to be frank, with the player traits as they were in the beta, the maps would play nothing like you know them in Halo 3. Something as simple as jumping on the yellow pads on The Pit would be impossible. :lol

 

[CreateNowSleepLater]

Im willing to bet that H3 will overtake Reach at some point as most played on live. Defend Reach all you want but every board is complaining about the same things. A lot of people just dont like this game in its current incarnation.

 

[Shrennin]

Im willing to bet that H3 will overtake Reach at some point as most played on live. Defend Reach all you want but every board is complaining about the same things. A lot of people just dont like this game in its current incarnation.

"Every board" is hardly a representation of the gaming public as a whole. It may be the most vocal, but it's hardly a good representation.

Many people are most likely dismayed that Reach doesn't play like Halo 3. Once you get over that hurdle, I think a lot of people will come to find that Reach is a great game that is a lot more skill based than its predecessor. I could be wrong, but we'll see.

 

[EazyB]

Don't really care about any remakes, because to be frank, with the player traits as they were in the beta, the maps would play nothing like you know them in Halo 3. Something as simple as jumping on the yellow pads on The Pit would be impossible. :lol

Yeah, I'm really afraid none of the previous game's maps would be very playable in Reach. It goes to show how many of those that say "What do you mean Reach doesn't play like Halo?" are pretty clueless. Remakes would have to scaled down for jumps and movement speed which would somewhat flatten the levels and mess up all the lines of sight. Only large, open maps like Valhalla and Avalanche, where jumping around geometry was never a big factor, could possibly be remade in Reach. Even many of the classic Halo level geometries that appear in multiple levels couldn't be maintained for Reach.

What makes a good Reach level will be very different from what makes a good Halo CE/2/3 level. It has me worried about the quality of maps we'll be getting for Reach. I mean they've worked in the relatively same MP sandbox for 10 years and we still got things like Orbital releasing nor is there even anything close to a consensus that Halo 3's maps were better overall than Halo 2's. If anythings it's the other way around so the time it takes for Bungie to really know what makes a good MP level stretches well beyond the game's development time. Sure there'll be a few greats in the mix but it's hard for me to envision a scenario where the quality isn't all over the place and overall mediocre.

The solution:
Map editor

 

[Kapura]

"Every board" is hardly a representation of the gaming public as a whole. It may be the most vocal, but it's hardly a good representation.

Many people are most likely dismayed that Reach doesn't play like Halo 3. Once you get over that hurdle, I think a lot of people will come to find that Reach is a great game that is a lot more skill based than its predecessor. I could be wrong, but we'll see.

I wholeheartedly agree. Despite the Easy et al opinion, I think that bloom increases the skill gap much more than the normal unreliable reticle. With bloom, bullets are reliably unreliable. But you can control that, which leads to smarter playing. Another thing that leads to smarter playing is the extended average encounter length. I, for one, don't think that we should not back to four-shot bullshit. Five shots that each need to hit 100% is better than 12 bullets with semi-random spread for each. You'll need to plan more, team-shot is more important.

 

[GhaleonEB]

So I sat down to outline the plan of attack for the Reach thread (or rather the |OT|), and all of a sudden it's two hours later. And all I did was organize the broad outline in raw text and pull in a few details.

Just the outline of what Reach is packing - the table of contents, if you will - is un-freaking-real. I still can't really wrap my head around it, and trying to outline it in a way that's coherent, useful and (relatively) compact is going to be tough.

And that's just running with the stuff I know at this point. Are you trying to kill me, Bungie?

 

[Slightly Live]

So I sat down to outline the plan of attack for the Reach thread (or rather the |OT|), and all of a sudden it's two hours later. And all I did was organize the broad outline in raw text and pull in a few details.

Just the outline of what Reach is packing - the table of contents, if you will - is un-freaking-real. I still can't really wrap my head around it, and trying to outline it in a way that's coherent, useful and (relatively) compact is going to be tough.

And that's just running with the stuff I know at this point. Are you trying to kill me, Bungie?

Guess I have the easier job or outlining in broad strokes what we already and what we will know before release.

I don't envy the job of en massing a comprehensive guide for the entire package. :lol

I'm sure two posts for your OP will be needed.

 

[Kapura]

Guess I have the easier job or outlining in broad strokes what we already and what we will know before release.

I don't envy the job of en massing a comprehensive guide for the entire package. :lol

I'm sure two posts for your OP will be needed.

Conservative estimate.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Guess I have the easier job or outlining in broad strokes what we already and what we will know before release.

I don't envy the job of en massing a comprehensive guide for the entire package. :lol

I'm sure two posts for your OP will be needed.

My approach is going to be, after the "Basics" (release date, etc.) to include a short table of contents/feature summary at the top of the OP that just ticks off the areas of the game, and links to primary (b.net) sources for each. Then people can do a deep dive into the thread if they choose. Then work through each area in order. Right now the short outline I'm using to keep myself organized is this:

Basics | Release Date, SKUs, Player Counts, Achievements, Official Sites & Media, Press Coverage (Previews & Reviews)

Campaign | Story, Characters, Enemies, Features (Scoring, Skulls)

Player Investment | Commendations, Daily & Weekly Challenges, Credits, Rank, Armory

Firefight | Maps, Gametypes, Features

Multiplayer: Gameplay | HUD, Load Outs, Assasinations, Recticle Bloom, Health System, Spartans vs. Elites

Multiplayer: Maps & Gametypes | List of each.

Multiplayer: Matchmaking | Playlists, Active Roster, Queue Join, Veto System, The Arena (Personal & Daily Ratings, Divisions, Seasons)

Multiplayer: Custom Games | Player Traits, Gametype Editing, Etc.

Weapons & Ordnance | UNSC Weapons, Covenant Weapons, UNSC Vehicles, Covenant Vehicles, Armor Abilities

Forge | Forge Stuff, Scope TBD

Theater | Screenshots, Clips, Party Viewing(?)

File Sharing & Bungie.net | Stats, File Share, Tagging/Search, Bungie Pro (Slots/Space, Video Renering, Render Minutes)

Halo Community | HBO, TTL, RvB, etc.​

Below that I've got each section expanded and the basics in place, with the available links and details on what's known (SKUs, gametpes, that kind of stuff). Trying to organize it so that it makes sense to someone who hasn't paid the most attention to the game in advance, and so the content builds on itself logically is tricky.

Now to wait until closer to ship and details come in. I suspect most of the work will come in the two weeks prior to posting, but for some reason I wanted to scope it out. I'm thinking three posts.

And that's just what we know now. Reach is going to be epic.

 

[Ramirez]

I'm also shocked the release date wasn't revealed at some point during the beta like it was for 3.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21394167&postcount=393

wat

 

[WJD]

|OT|
wut?

 

[Tashi]

I'm also shocked the release date wasn't revealed at some point during the beta like it was for 3.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21394167&postcount=393

wat

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Striker]

At this point, I think Soldat makes comments that hold no water in order to get a reaction.

I wish I had been born a girl just so I could be a member of GirlGAF.

 

[feel]

^^ the hell? :lol

And not a fan of |OT| all over the place, some mod was bored?

 

[Zeouterlimits]

And not a fan of |OT| all over the place, some mod was bored?

Well, there's a thread here about it, Evilore explains his reasoning.

Also, :lol

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Hey just cutting in, before all the Reach files are deleted I want to take advantage of the Reach File Browser to download some awesome clips, I remember someone posted a clip of AR bullets colliding in mid-air, anyone know what the films called?

:lol @ Dax

 

[TheOddOne]

Well, there's a thread here about it, Evilore explains his reasoning.

Also, :lol

Still don't see why its needed. But I shall not defiance my gods.

 

[The Librarian]

Conservative estimate.

Ghal will need some hardcore tax cuts so he can afford to do more.

http://i49.tinypic.com/2126c1t_th.gif[/IMG[/QUOTE]
You must be bored to. My comment did what it was intended to do: give me some entertainment. Everyone started talking about monocles!:lol

 

[vhfive]

The maps are the most troubling thing for me, they haven't really nailed an amazing multiplayer map in a while. They need to go back to more symmetrical maps, look into Sanctuary for inspiration.

this
Within the first month of release expect a Sanctuary remake that I will spend an ungodly amount of time making.

Spoiler

someone needs to make the Pit

EDIT: Also expect a gametype with increased jumping height and movement speed within hours of release.

 

[Kapura]

this
Within the first month of release expect a Sanctuary remake that I will spend an ungodly amount of time making.

Spoiler

someone needs to make the Pit

I'll get on that. But the lack if powerups will change it a lot

 

[Pennybags]

Hey just cutting in, before all the Reach files are deleted I want to take advantage of the Reach File Browser to download some awesome clips, I remember someone posted a clip of AR bullets colliding in mid-air, anyone know what the films called?

I don't know if this is the one you are looking for, but...

Link

 

[AwesomeSyrup]

this
Within the first month of release expect a Sanctuary remake that I will spend an ungodly amount of time making.

Spoiler

someone needs to make the Pit

EDIT: Also expect a gametype with increased jumping height and movement speed within hours of release.

Hopefully we don't have to worry about doing that on our own.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I'll get on that. But the lack if powerups will change it a lot

Ah... Maybe we will get a custom powerup object in Forge again, which we can use to make Camo and OS objects? (Please Bungie ).


Also Pennybags thats the one I was looking for thanks, watching it on the Xbox makes it seem more likely that lag was involved, the visual and soundclip was from the melee clash which was delayed, could be wrong though.

 

[Wolffen]

Seems like all of the people giving Reach rave reviews haven't played the game very much and are lower skilled players. That's not supposed to be mean either. It's just what I've noticed so far.

When all was said and done, I don't know that I'd give the beta rave reviews, but I definitely saw it in a better light than most of the more competitive HaloGAFers. I'm a scrub. Way back in the day I was a decent (not great) Halo 2 player, but age, lack of playtime, and my inability to excel with the BR contributed to my mediocrity. Meanwhile, my skills seemed to decrease even further with Halo 3 (and I didn't have the patience to improve). So I readily admit that while a long time (albeit quiet/rarely seen) HaloGAFer, I suck at MP.

That said, I agree with most here that player speed and jump height need to be adjusted. As others have pointed out, one reason grenades seem so overpowered is the player's inability to get away from a grenade without sprinting or jetpacking. I'm actually a big fan of grenades with more damage (hey, I'm a scrub, and it is a grenade, not a firecracker), but I understand the frustration of one-shot-grenade-dead. In regards to jump height, as I've said several times, I understand we're Spartan IIIs, and I'm not looking for Master Chief-style moon jumps, but I expect my spartan to be able to jump higher than me.

I won't get into the whole bloom argument. All I'll say is I'm happy that in Reach, I have something to fight back with when I spawn (pistol), and I won't be four shotted on spawn (no BR).

Anyway...people better qualified and better spoken have weighed in with thoughts on the beta that pretty much echo mine.

Within the first month of release expect a Sanctuary remake that I will spend an ungodly amount of time making.

One of my favorite maps in Halo 2. I look forward to your remake!

Whilst looking at the Halo Modder's vid wwm0nkey posted, I had an epiphany about the end of the campaign:

Spoiler

On the last level, you will play as an Elite leading a team of Covenant (your co-op buddies) to wipe out Noble Team and any remaining UNSC resistance.

But I'm probably just crazy.

So is this thread going to be the official thread of all things Halo (Firefight, Halo 3 MP, etc) for the time being, btw?

 

[Shrennin]

And that's just what we know now. Reach is going to be epic.

That OT sounds awesome - I really can't wait till we know all of the stuff that's going to be in it.

 

[Tashi]

That |OT| sounds awesome - I really can't wait till we know all of the stuff that's going to be in it.

fixed

 

[timetokill]

So I've intentionally avoided this thread until I could try out the Beta for myself...

Going back through the thread, wow. That is quite a lot of bitching :lol

I enjoyed the Beta a lot. The sound design is awesome, and I really love the concept of the AA, as well as the execution... except for the active camo. It's so frustrating to get seen instantly or sniped across the map when using it. I think there are a few fixes... fixing the radar so that it's more random, and 2 -- making visibility tied to range or something. If I'm across the map and using camo, there should be no way to see me outside of maybe kicking up snow particles or something.

I really love the measured shots needed with a lot of the guns, as well as the frenzies it causes at close range... there are some funny situations with melee tangos and stuff but it's good fun.

Personally I don't have as big of a problem with the grenades as some of you did... a little less splash damage would be good I suppose but the only thing that felt "overpowered" was the lunge on the hammer. Good lord.


I can't wait until I can use the forge. Hopefully you guys won't mind trying some of my maps? I made a few for Halo 3 but didn't get to test them too much. I really love making maps though so I'd like to get in on the ground floor with this stuff this time around

 

[Ajemsuhgao]

Played some Halo 3 today. God the control scheme sucks. I was reloading at people instead of hitting them, and getting really confused with X didn't pick up weapons.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Played some Halo 3 today. I was reloading at people instead of hitting them, and getting really confused with X didn't pick up weapons.

I was doing the exact same last night, it was hilariously bad.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

I was doing the exact same last night, it was hilariously bad.

I played Halo 2 quite a bit on its final few days, and stupidly went straight into Dexp Throwback on Halo 3 after (I hadnt played Halo 3 for a few weeks). I Constantly played Generals and the worst thing was every time I tried to talk I pressed LB and ended up jumping. :lol

 

[DeadFalling]

I couldn't stand Reach's controls and just switched to Recon(closest to H3's) from the beginning. Is there any advantage to default?


edit: also haven't posted this in a while so....:

 

[Lazslo]

I couldn't stand Reach's controls and just switched to Recon(closest to H3's) from the beginning. Is there any advantage to default?

I'm a die hard BumpJump Fan but in Reach I used the jet-pack mostly which totally defeated the purpose of BJ- however I adapted to pressing X and by the end of the Beta it just felt natural- I might switch to Recon in the fall though it looks pretty interesting.