RebornYeti
Member
Hypertrooper said:
Oh haha, ok. I take it that Zayne isn't that great then?
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Oh haha, ok. I take it that Zayne isn't that great then?
Ok, so we didn't get to Bereavement, Crown of Flies only had a 3v3 match that ended early, and I didn't want to force Roost on people, so.
Truss: We played Team DMRs (5v5) so it was a bit too big for that party size, but it seemed like it would be ok for 8v8. Moving around it was confusing, with sharp turns everywhere. The mancannons have a small Soft Kill Barrier when you lift from them, and there's a few places where you can jump to where you can hide out at that it seems like you shouldn't be able to.
Trestle: Pretty much the same as Truss, except for the size being pretty good for 4v4-6v6. Though, I noticed that there's way too many areas that only have one way to it, or just being a hallway without anything interesting there. They also had spawning problems where I'd spawn at Red base when I was on blue team.
Personally, I'd try to make a nice combination of Truss and Trestle. Either make it a 4v4-6v6 map, or a 6v6-8v8 map. The way it's laid out makes me think it'd be better as a 4v4-6v6 map. I'd make the bases have more up top, and a better way to get up there from the bottom. I'd also remove the man cannons from the sides to one at each base's bottom window, shooting you to the middle island.
But don't get me wrong. It's a great layout and a great idea, and it has the ability to be a great map, just make it simpler and make sure to have a few more ways to get to every area on the map.
Enforcer Factory: Hopefully this doesn't cause whiplash and makes me seem like a dick by going from criticism to praise, but I likedSentinel 343 Guilty Spark ENFORCER Factory a lot. The only things I didn't like were the lifts up to the Rockets where I didn't know I needed to push forward to get lifted up to it and not commit suicide twice. Or I'm just stupid.
Also, the middle area with the windows making up the walls was confusing when trying to find a way out of there. The waterfilled area kinda threw me off for a second, but I doubt there's anyway to still make it filled with water but actually be able to see the floor.
Atrium: I really liked this map too, and it flowed really well, especially in the lower middle and sides. But, the only huge problem I saw in the map was the third story at the top with the sniper rifles. I was worried that the snipers would be too dominating on the map, but instead the jetpack was. Almost everyone used one, and I think that's due to the third story. I'd lower it a bit, where it's still a third story, but where you can get to it from the second story by crouch jumping. Maybe even just put one sniper on the map in the middle of that semi-bridge.
Reactor (vhfive's):To continue the love parade, I liked Reactor. It's a simple map that plays well due to how simple it is. The only problem I found (and heard a lot of people saying) was that when you looked at the "reactor" itself, you got slowdown. I also noticed it in the back of the base and the corners of the map.
Kingdom: The only map that got two games on it due to my moronic decision to "hay is KOTH ok? oh, one hill 'cuz that's what halo 2 and 3 could do but reach has a bug but LETS TO IT DO IT" and have the hill in the corner to the right of red base.
And let's never speak of that again.
So, the game of Team DMRs we played on Kingdom was one of the best Slayer matches I've played on Reach. It actually felt like a Halo map from Halo 2 or even 3. It's a great map that only really needs walls blocking off the somewhat huge top of the map where people might want to jetpack up to.
And yes, I expect money for whoring out so much on Kingdom, Sik.
Yeti-Dome: FFA on this was a great way to start this week's ForgeGAF customs. It's small, but 8 player FFA was fun, chaotic, and reminded me of FFA in in Marathon, and Halo 1/2. Not as bloody as Myth, though.
Winning the game in 3rd place with 25 kills (it was to 25 kills), with Hyper and five in 1st and 2nd with 24 was weird, though.
Moonpool: Got slowdown in the middle, and the spawns were messed up where we'd keep on switching bases throughout the match. The middle was a mess of swords, grenades, and shotgun blasts to everyone's back. Though, I like stuff like that, but I have to say it should be opened up more, with more ways up there (maybe something like Sanctuary, with ramps on the sides of the map, and tunnels to that middle top?).
Though, I have been a fanboy of the map since it was first shown on here, and it still reminds me of Marathon maps (Duality/Gemini, but fitting in more with Halo's gameplay more than Gemini did).
Lookout: Let's just say it has potential, but isn't quite there yet. It's not bad like The Cage (so it's like, The Cage 35.0), but it's not great yet. Movement problems are really prevalent on it, with the area next to the sniper nest and top teleporter basically being the place people can dominate at. Most of the map wasn't even touched, just jetpacked through. The ramp up to that dominating area was a grenade trap for the team getting their asses kicked.
The rock that's floating also is a place where people can get stuck due to the gravity lift below it.
It did incorporate elements of Ascension (which Nokyard said), so I'd try to make something like the rock area of it, but instead of being somewhat of a pit, make it a way up to the top so that there's not so much grenade spam.
Seashell: Timetokill, I'm feeling like a total dick when I say this, but I absolutely hated this map.
Blue base was easier to defend than red base, which is usually the opposite for asymmetrical maps. It also had a mancannon directly facing it, with red team having one off to the side that seemed easier to go off in, grab the flag, and capture it.
There's no barriers where there should be to tell people that if you step there, you'll die due to spartans not being able to stand in water the depth of a kiddie pool.
The middle of the map was camped nearly every time I went there, with the sword being way too dominant on a seemingly open and big map. It also seemed the blue team's sniper spawned faster than Red team's.
The spawns were also messed up for red team with a spawn that made us face the ocean/quarry and not the map. And the rest of the island was exposed and not blocked off with something, which could've been fixed by a colosseum wall or two.
Though, most of my problems with the map is probably due to me picking Multiflag CTF on it. So I hope it's just another case where I was a fucking idiot and so making this section like a huge picture of my face with the words "I'M A DICKHOLE" written over it. If it's meant for Asymmetrical gametypes, I'd like to play 1 flag or something with you constantly assassinating me and humping my corpse just so you can get back at me for this.
Also, you're free to say any map I've made is a total piece of shit and you'd probably be right.
__
Also, I guess I can't write opinions of maps without cursing like a sailor. Oh well. :/
Truss: We played Team DMRs (5v5) so it was a bit too big for that party size, but it seemed like it would be ok for 8v8. Moving around it was confusing, with sharp turns everywhere. The mancannons have a small Soft Kill Barrier when you lift from them, and there's a few places where you can jump to where you can hide out at that it seems like you shouldn't be able to.
Trestle: Pretty much the same as Truss, except for the size being pretty good for 4v4-6v6. Though, I noticed that there's way too many areas that only have one way to it, or just being a hallway without anything interesting there. They also had spawning problems where I'd spawn at Red base when I was on blue team.
Personally, I'd try to make a nice combination of Truss and Trestle. Either make it a 4v4-6v6 map, or a 6v6-8v8 map. The way it's laid out makes me think it'd be better as a 4v4-6v6 map. I'd make the bases have more up top, and a better way to get up there from the bottom. I'd also remove the man cannons from the sides to one at each base's bottom window, shooting you to the middle island.
But don't get me wrong. It's a great layout and a great idea, and it has the ability to be a great map, just make it simpler and make sure to have a few more ways to get to every area on the map.
Don't hate me op-ivy
Enforcer Factory: Hopefully this doesn't cause whiplash and makes me seem like a dick by going from criticism to praise, but I liked
Also, the middle area with the windows making up the walls was confusing when trying to find a way out of there. The waterfilled area kinda threw me off for a second, but I doubt there's anyway to still make it filled with water but actually be able to see the floor.
RIP ~B.B.
Atrium: I really liked this map too, and it flowed really well, especially in the lower middle and sides. But, the only huge problem I saw in the map was the third story at the top with the sniper rifles. I was worried that the snipers would be too dominating on the map, but instead the jetpack was. Almost everyone used one, and I think that's due to the third story. I'd lower it a bit, where it's still a third story, but where you can get to it from the second story by crouch jumping. Maybe even just put one sniper on the map in the middle of that semi-bridge.
Reactor (vhfive's):To continue the love parade, I liked Reactor. It's a simple map that plays well due to how simple it is. The only problem I found (and heard a lot of people saying) was that when you looked at the "reactor" itself, you got slowdown. I also noticed it in the back of the base and the corners of the map.
Kingdom: The only map that got two games on it due to my moronic decision to "hay is KOTH ok? oh, one hill 'cuz that's what halo 2 and 3 could do but reach has a bug but LETS TO IT DO IT" and have the hill in the corner to the right of red base.
And let's never speak of that again.
So, the game of Team DMRs we played on Kingdom was one of the best Slayer matches I've played on Reach. It actually felt like a Halo map from Halo 2 or even 3. It's a great map that only really needs walls blocking off the somewhat huge top of the map where people might want to jetpack up to.
And yes, I expect money for whoring out so much on Kingdom, Sik.
Yeti-Dome: FFA on this was a great way to start this week's ForgeGAF customs. It's small, but 8 player FFA was fun, chaotic, and reminded me of FFA in in Marathon, and Halo 1/2. Not as bloody as Myth, though.
Winning the game in 3rd place with 25 kills (it was to 25 kills), with Hyper and five in 1st and 2nd with 24 was weird, though.
Moonpool: Got slowdown in the middle, and the spawns were messed up where we'd keep on switching bases throughout the match. The middle was a mess of swords, grenades, and shotgun blasts to everyone's back. Though, I like stuff like that, but I have to say it should be opened up more, with more ways up there (maybe something like Sanctuary, with ramps on the sides of the map, and tunnels to that middle top?).
Though, I have been a fanboy of the map since it was first shown on here, and it still reminds me of Marathon maps (Duality/Gemini, but fitting in more with Halo's gameplay more than Gemini did).
Lookout: Let's just say it has potential, but isn't quite there yet. It's not bad like The Cage (so it's like, The Cage 35.0), but it's not great yet. Movement problems are really prevalent on it, with the area next to the sniper nest and top teleporter basically being the place people can dominate at. Most of the map wasn't even touched, just jetpacked through. The ramp up to that dominating area was a grenade trap for the team getting their asses kicked.
The rock that's floating also is a place where people can get stuck due to the gravity lift below it.
It did incorporate elements of Ascension (which Nokyard said), so I'd try to make something like the rock area of it, but instead of being somewhat of a pit, make it a way up to the top so that there's not so much grenade spam.
Seashell: Timetokill, I'm feeling like a total dick when I say this, but I absolutely hated this map.
Blue base was easier to defend than red base, which is usually the opposite for asymmetrical maps. It also had a mancannon directly facing it, with red team having one off to the side that seemed easier to go off in, grab the flag, and capture it.
There's no barriers where there should be to tell people that if you step there, you'll die due to spartans not being able to stand in water the depth of a kiddie pool.
The middle of the map was camped nearly every time I went there, with the sword being way too dominant on a seemingly open and big map. It also seemed the blue team's sniper spawned faster than Red team's.
The spawns were also messed up for red team with a spawn that made us face the ocean/quarry and not the map. And the rest of the island was exposed and not blocked off with something, which could've been fixed by a colosseum wall or two.
Though, most of my problems with the map is probably due to me picking Multiflag CTF on it. So I hope it's just another case where I was a fucking idiot and so making this section like a huge picture of my face with the words "I'M A DICKHOLE" written over it. If it's meant for Asymmetrical gametypes, I'd like to play 1 flag or something with you constantly assassinating me and humping my corpse just so you can get back at me for this.
Also, you're free to say any map I've made is a total piece of shit and you'd probably be right.
__
Also, I guess I can't write opinions of maps without cursing like a sailor. Oh well. :/
I'm also sleep deprived so, yeah.
timetokill
Banned
ZayneH said:
Don't worry, it's cool. I'm not upset.
Seashell was one of the first maps I ever did, and for some reason I never really put it into the ForgeGAF rotations. As such it has some ideas I wanted to try and that I haven't really seen in Halo maps. But again, it was only tested maybe once (and with a ton of players no less) last time so I really wanted to see if I could get some real impressions of it.
The fact that you said both snipers is good, I was worried teams might not find both of them (Red team's in particular is kind of far back). I'm assuming you were on red team based on the impressions, but hopefully somebody can post up a saved film so I can see what was going on specifically. And it sounds like you were playing CTF.
At any rate, after doing some other maps (Château, Great Bear Lodge), I was planning on going back to Seashell and revamping it a bit using the feedback I got from this session. So on the contrary, your intense feelings towards it are critical to that.
Hope others can give me their feelings on it too!
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
I'm glad to see positive Kingdom comments, worked very hard on that map! If you can send me the saved film of the game I would be very grateful. Everyone still logging on in 50 minutes for more games? I'm staying up especially. (Much to my darling wifes annoyance)
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Sikamikanico said:
Regular customs will start in 45 minutes as usual. =)
ZayneH said:
i thought it would be ok for 4v4 or 5v5, but yeah, it was built to handle more players, i'd love to get it tested for 8v8 with the GAF group latter.
i must say, i'm confused about the "moving around it was confusing, sharp turns everywhere" bit. i guess i could see that for the bases, but the bridges (the star of the show, by design) should have been pretty straight forward. maybe its just an issue of first time on a map confusion? can you try to elaborate?
again, if you could elaborate a bit on the "only one way to it, or just a hallway without anything interesting" bit. where exactly are you referring to? the only thing i can think of would be the side "tower" pieces, which are there to facilitate movement via the man cannons primarily.
the spawn system was by design, as team slayer should freely move you around the map based on team placement when you spawn. unless of course, you spawned at the other team, with the other team present
i think both maps stand on their own for different things. dont make me make a third version of my AotCR/narrows idea :/
Trestle I feel really good about being a 4v4 map, but its good to hear a fresh perspective. i would like you to expand on your complaints a bit, if you could, though.
Truss i think has the potential to be an awesome (apparently 8v8) map, with the bridges being near final. i'm not at all satisfied with the bases, layout and look, though. i think i'll take feedback suggestions and rework the rough bits and, of course, the kill zone issues (which were added just prior to me posting the map without testing!).
and, personally, i prefer the mancannons off on the sides. maybe its my love of halo 3's narrows, as it really does feel that way (except altered for no mid-air collisions!) to me. early renditions of trestle DID have them in the center to the platforms, but i decided to move them. i guess its just my own personal preference, hopefully i'm not alone
Don't hate me op-ivy
no way, you gave great feedback, hope you are willing/able to give me more details!
RebornYeti
Member
ZayneH said:
I'm really glad some of you think it's a good FFA map. I haven't even played FFA on it, which is kinda weird. I suggest you guys try 2v2 CTF on it sometime. It's kinda hectic, but really fun... Especially with touch return enabled.
op_ivy said:i thought it would be ok for 4v4 or 5v5, but yeah, it was built to handle more players, i'd love to get it tested for 8v8 with the GAF group latter.
i must say, i'm confused about the "moving around it was confusing, sharp turns everywhere" bit. i guess i could see that for the bases, but the bridges (the star of the show, by design) should have been pretty straight forward. maybe its just an issue of first time on a map confusion? can you try to elaborate a bit on the "only one way to it, or just a hallway without anything interesting" bit. where exactly are you referring to? the only thing i can think of would be the side "tower" pieces, which are there to facilitate movement via the man cannons primarily.
the spawn system was by design, as team slayer should freely move you around the map based on team placement when you spawn. unless of course, you spawned at the other team, with the other team present
The bases were the parts that were confusing, more so on Truss. Trestle was easier to orient myself on after awhile, so it probably was due to it being the first time I played either map.
The bridges weren't confusing, but they were bare and pretty much only a way to travel from base to base without anything to pick up like a grenade launcher or a concussion rifle. If one of them had one of those, with the other having a sniper (which was one too many on Truss, especially with how open it was), it would have something to go for instead of just ignoring. That's what I meant by the "hallways without anything interesting" comment.
The Mancannon towers could be made more simple, not made out of a spiral tower, with middle sniper towers on Truss cut out due to not really having a purpose (in my opinion, of course)
As for spawns on Trestle, we played Multibomb on it and I spawned at Red Team's base when I was on blue team. When no one on my team was around me, and when their base was empty. I'd put down Respawn areas for separate gametypes (CTF, Bomb, Team games) so that if you're playing Slayer what you want to happen can happen, but in objective games, that's not good.
Hopefully that makes sense, kinda got confused by what one was Trestle and what one was Truss.
ZayneH said:
honestly, i think this is the major issue, though admittedly, the bases were kind of a second thought for truss.
the bridges were designed for interesting combat, and i stand by the fact that they would offer that (at least for the smaller trestle, the only map of the two i've played multiple full games on). trestle has a shotgun on one bridge and a grenade launcher on the other. truss has a shotgun on each, but maybe you are right in that one should have the grenade launcher instead.
i thought the sniper rifles might be an issue. i personally hate the sniper, and was worried with two on the map it would be too crazy. any suggestions for where to place a single sniper, and what might go in the two current sniper positions?
i actually was thinking the sniper nests might be a bit useless, but figured it would need testing to prove. thanks for the feedback.
and i assume the man cannon "towers" could be simplified for the better on both maps? cant say i disagree...
ahhh, it was multibomb you played! i hadnt tested trestle for anything but slayer, but you are right, spawns should not occur like that in an objective game. how did assualt flow? was it too difficult/easy to score? really curious about this, as like i said, all my experience playing it has been team slayer. i'm actually curious now if you'd feel differently about trestle if you played it 4v4 slayer
Bregmann Roche
Member
Though much of what I think has already been said, I'll chip in something regarding the maps I played today.
Truss & Trestle: Probably didn't give these maps as much of a fairshake as we should've. Slayer played better than Assault on the small one and with more people I think the big one could've been solid. Juices got a sick Overkill so it's already destined to be in a totally sweet montage.
Enforcer Factory: I'm not a BTB guy but this map seems like it could be pretty cool. I agree with Zayne that the lifts need a little more attention since it's sort of unfair to expect the Halo playing population at large to know how to avoid suiciding in them. It's also unfair to expect the Halo playing population to eat without choking and obey the most basic rules of human decency, so...yeah.
Atrium: Really good looking map. I wasn't so sure about it the first time we played it, but during Night Customs (XXX!) Assault on it was better. Without an objective forcing you to use the lower pathways I'm not sure how this map would play out. I would like to play this one some more. Again, whoever made this, it looks really pretty and the work you put into it shows, it just seems like jetpacks could break or void the cooler parts of the map.
Reactor (vhfive's): This is a good map. The framerate issues make me sad. I liked the layout and the aesthetic. Sprinting off the top of the rock ramps made for some cool moments. If the slowdown issues could be solved I would love to play it again.
Kingdom: This map is ready for matchmaking except for one thing and it's really a tiny issue. There is a health pack that is set into a column/wall type thing that is sort of hard to get at because it sits so far back in the column. There's also a plasma pistol in front of it that I inevitably picked up over and over when I meant to grab the health pack. Love this map though. Nothing but good games on it.
Yeti-Dome: This map seemed ready for FFA matchmaking. Doubles Arena could be a possibility as well. We never played 4v4 but 3v3 was pretty hectic as it was and it seemed possible that a 4-man team could do a good job of pinning down the other team on one side of the map. This would be not fun. On the flip side, FFA was tremendously fun. Of all the forge world maps, this one feels the least like a forge creation and the most like a new map. This has everything to do with the layout and object choices. Good work and thanks.
Moonpool: I know it's cramped, and I know there were framerate issues, but I liked this map. I would love to play it some more if it could be adjusted to deal with the framerate. This map also looked great but in almost the exact opposite way that Yeti-Dome did. This feels very much like a forge creation but it's such a good-looking forge creation that I can't help but be impressed. Not playable in MM as it is, but personally I feel like it has potential.
Lookout: We played team slayer on this with uneven teams and I did not have fun. The teams were not balanced, but even still it was clear that the spawns were not polished and the map as a whole doesn't feel like a 4v4 setup. I'd like to try it 8-man FFA sometime. Just to see what that's like.
Seashell: I don't want to pile on this map anymore than has already been done, but suffice to say CTF on it was not my favorite.
Bikini Atoll: I like this map for two reasons. 1) It has the word "bikini" in the title. 2) It makes for a cool counterpoint to that griffball map that's already in the playlist that rises along the edges. I dislike this map for two reasons 1) It is a griffball map and it seems that Griffball in Reach hates me and the hammer is totally random. 2) The top of the Kill Ball in the middle of the map confuses and scares me. That being said, I don't know why this couldn't be in the Griffball playlist.
The Pit: Why isn't this in Matchmaking??? Can someone tell me? It felt very much like The Pit and probably just needs some kill zones to control jetpack abuse. Does urk know about this? Could we justify sneaking the Invisibility and Overshield powerups onto the map or is that too crazy? Are they there already? I liked this map.
Thanks to everyone that played and thanks even more to all the creators that put the time and effort into making cool stuff for me to spend my time messing around with. Sorry if my hastily written critiques offended you.
Edited to correct typos and idiocy.
Truss & Trestle: Probably didn't give these maps as much of a fairshake as we should've. Slayer played better than Assault on the small one and with more people I think the big one could've been solid. Juices got a sick Overkill so it's already destined to be in a totally sweet montage.
Enforcer Factory: I'm not a BTB guy but this map seems like it could be pretty cool. I agree with Zayne that the lifts need a little more attention since it's sort of unfair to expect the Halo playing population at large to know how to avoid suiciding in them. It's also unfair to expect the Halo playing population to eat without choking and obey the most basic rules of human decency, so...yeah.
Atrium: Really good looking map. I wasn't so sure about it the first time we played it, but during Night Customs (XXX!) Assault on it was better. Without an objective forcing you to use the lower pathways I'm not sure how this map would play out. I would like to play this one some more. Again, whoever made this, it looks really pretty and the work you put into it shows, it just seems like jetpacks could break or void the cooler parts of the map.
Reactor (vhfive's): This is a good map. The framerate issues make me sad. I liked the layout and the aesthetic. Sprinting off the top of the rock ramps made for some cool moments. If the slowdown issues could be solved I would love to play it again.
Kingdom: This map is ready for matchmaking except for one thing and it's really a tiny issue. There is a health pack that is set into a column/wall type thing that is sort of hard to get at because it sits so far back in the column. There's also a plasma pistol in front of it that I inevitably picked up over and over when I meant to grab the health pack. Love this map though. Nothing but good games on it.
Yeti-Dome: This map seemed ready for FFA matchmaking. Doubles Arena could be a possibility as well. We never played 4v4 but 3v3 was pretty hectic as it was and it seemed possible that a 4-man team could do a good job of pinning down the other team on one side of the map. This would be not fun. On the flip side, FFA was tremendously fun. Of all the forge world maps, this one feels the least like a forge creation and the most like a new map. This has everything to do with the layout and object choices. Good work and thanks.
Moonpool: I know it's cramped, and I know there were framerate issues, but I liked this map. I would love to play it some more if it could be adjusted to deal with the framerate. This map also looked great but in almost the exact opposite way that Yeti-Dome did. This feels very much like a forge creation but it's such a good-looking forge creation that I can't help but be impressed. Not playable in MM as it is, but personally I feel like it has potential.
Lookout: We played team slayer on this with uneven teams and I did not have fun. The teams were not balanced, but even still it was clear that the spawns were not polished and the map as a whole doesn't feel like a 4v4 setup. I'd like to try it 8-man FFA sometime. Just to see what that's like.
Seashell: I don't want to pile on this map anymore than has already been done, but suffice to say CTF on it was not my favorite.
Bikini Atoll: I like this map for two reasons. 1) It has the word "bikini" in the title. 2) It makes for a cool counterpoint to that griffball map that's already in the playlist that rises along the edges. I dislike this map for two reasons 1) It is a griffball map and it seems that Griffball in Reach hates me and the hammer is totally random. 2) The top of the Kill Ball in the middle of the map confuses and scares me. That being said, I don't know why this couldn't be in the Griffball playlist.
The Pit: Why isn't this in Matchmaking??? Can someone tell me? It felt very much like The Pit and probably just needs some kill zones to control jetpack abuse. Does urk know about this? Could we justify sneaking the Invisibility and Overshield powerups onto the map or is that too crazy? Are they there already? I liked this map.
Thanks to everyone that played and thanks even more to all the creators that put the time and effort into making cool stuff for me to spend my time messing around with. Sorry if my hastily written critiques offended you.
Edited to correct typos and idiocy.
Made some changes to Bikini Atoll
Got rid of the kill ball on the bomb because it was restricting the pickup zone for some reason. Replaced with cones.
Old pic for scale
Download - http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=12999185&player=Mr Kwatz
Gametype (standard grifball with gold clubs) - http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=12999188&player=Mr Kwatz
Got rid of the kill ball on the bomb because it was restricting the pickup zone for some reason. Replaced with cones.
Old pic for scale
Download - http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=12999185&player=Mr Kwatz
Gametype (standard grifball with gold clubs) - http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=12999188&player=Mr Kwatz
First, a big thanks to everyone who played Moonpool. I had notes jotted down for each map we played, but looking over Zayne and Roche's comments, I'd pretty much be parroting their thoughts exactly. The real standout map of the day, at least for me, was Kingdom. It had a great feel to it.
Second, I have a Work-in-Progress version of Moonpool II up for download. Please remember that it's only setup for Team Slayer Only at this point and that there are some spawn issues in this version (since I suck at spawn setting). A quick fix would be to go in and change the red-side Respawn points to red team.
Eventually I would like to get it configured for FFA and CTF.
Feedback is always welcome.
Download:
MOONPOOL II / MP v2.0 - (WIP)
Finally, loooooong Walls-o-text incoming.
It seems like everyone likes it (which is totally flattering since this is essentially the second version of my second map ever), which is why the reports of slowdown suck. I really want it to work flawlessly.
I basically had this map planned since before Reach launched; I wanted something that played and felt like Halo, but tapped into that claustrophobic feel of Marathon, with a symmetrical but not mirrored layout...
SIDE VIEW
TOP VIEW
Each "Pool Room" has four exits;
- One via Mancannon to the top floor; the blue mancannon is just a little harder to reach than the red, so the shotgun is placed closer to their side.
- One that leads straight towards a power weapon; the flooded tunnel on the blue side leads to the sword, while the red side leads through the "Armory" to the rockets. Both are timed to be about the same distance at a full run.
- Two that converge at their exit points; on the red side, they lead down to the sword room, while on the blue side the two "Side Ducts" lead to the middle and rockets.
-----
There's also narrow choke points in the lead-up to each base;
- Red side has the two orange bridges, which players can get on top of if they're clever.
- Blue side has the ring around the moonpool, hemmed in by the supports (which players can get on top of if they're clever).
------
I'm not sure all of those exits are readily apparent or desirable; watching the replay, very few people took the flooded blue tunnel to the sword room, but almost everyone had a few scrapes at the "Armory" door on red side. I think a part of that may have been the spawn points (which seem to have kicked everyone over to red base because they were still set to neutral... /facepalm)
There *are* multiple ways up to the top floor, but I heard a few people mention that they didn't notice the man cannons that lead from beneath each base to the upper floor. I even set the initial game camera to show where it's at, but people still miss it.
The central area is murder, but it's by design... so it pisses me off slightly that Reach can't handle having 4-6 players in a narrow space. I'm almost wondering if maybe the Halo engine is somehow setup to be more efficient over GIGANTIC areas, since you often encounter very little slowdown on huge maps.
By design, Moonpool is essentially two bases connected by three separate paths stacked on top of each other, and to keep things fair the power weapons all spawn in that area as well (Shotty at the top, Rockets in the middle, sword at the bottom). That all adds up to everyone congregating in the middle.
-----
As far as fixing it goes... You can tell from the map that there's not a lot of options for branching paths if I want to keep things symmetrical. I've considered having the purple and green "Side ducts" lead off to the side, and having the open floor of the attic lead down to the Sword room, but I have three problems with that;
- The fall damage from the attic is too severe.
- There would be no other method into the attic except the mancannons; right now, there's three; mancannons and slinking up the 'struts' in the Armory (again, positioned so that Red and Blue get to the Shotgun at about approximate times)
- I'm out of pieces. Literally. I have a huge Budget left, but I'm down to Decoratives (the entire back wall and ceiling of Red base are Decorative Supports) and Natural items. In the first version of Moonpool, I ended up using stone for Blue Base and I HATED it. It also caused slowdown and looked terrible.
The end result; No pieces left to build and no real room to change the map up. I may have to just kick it down and suggest 2v2 or 1v1. It's really driving me crazy because the map is pretty much perfectly laid out except for slowdown issues in the middle. Was it completely unplayable or just a nagging irritation?
As far as Spawn issues go, after dinner I went in and tinkered with the spawn points. Some of them weren't set to a specific team, which may explain the strange base-switching issues. Hopefully they're a little better, but I still don't have the hang of spawn zones or anti-spawn zones. They always seem to work in the complete opposite of the way that I set them up (which follows all of the FAQs to a T...).
-----
I'm really glad everyone likes it and is picking up on the Marathon-esque cramped/confined feel. Instead of leaping from half-finished idea to half-finished idea, I've actually spent my entire Reach career on two maps; Cistern (A terrible map I used to just test out Forge) and Moonpool (which has had two completely different versions). To hear that people are impressed and that it has potential makes all of the un-developed ideas worth it.
So, yeah... the central room lag...
I dunno how big of a lag-inducer they are, but do you guys think yanking the green light object from that central area might help? In an early version of the map, I had a Red Light object in the Red Base, but it caused some noticeable lag because of all the transparent surfaces in there. Taking it out helped, but it appears to have just shifted the problem to the middle.
Would dropping in one of the Special FX objects like "Purple" help, by making it darker? The first version of Moonpool did that and it was playable (though a tad dark, of course).
Roche, was the Spawn issues and framerate the only thing making it unplayable for Matchmaking, or was that comment in reference to it not being a very 'Halo'-ish map?
-----
Thanks to everyone who played it earlier, hopefully we can get it into next week's rotation. If anyone sees me on Live and feels like giving me some pointers on spawn points, I'd love you forever.
Second, I have a Work-in-Progress version of Moonpool II up for download. Please remember that it's only setup for Team Slayer Only at this point and that there are some spawn issues in this version (since I suck at spawn setting). A quick fix would be to go in and change the red-side Respawn points to red team.
Eventually I would like to get it configured for FFA and CTF.
Feedback is always welcome.
Download:
MOONPOOL II / MP v2.0 - (WIP)
Finally, loooooong Walls-o-text incoming.
ZayneH said:
It seems like everyone likes it (which is totally flattering since this is essentially the second version of my second map ever), which is why the reports of slowdown suck. I really want it to work flawlessly.
I basically had this map planned since before Reach launched; I wanted something that played and felt like Halo, but tapped into that claustrophobic feel of Marathon, with a symmetrical but not mirrored layout...
SIDE VIEW
TOP VIEW
Each "Pool Room" has four exits;
- One via Mancannon to the top floor; the blue mancannon is just a little harder to reach than the red, so the shotgun is placed closer to their side.
- One that leads straight towards a power weapon; the flooded tunnel on the blue side leads to the sword, while the red side leads through the "Armory" to the rockets. Both are timed to be about the same distance at a full run.
- Two that converge at their exit points; on the red side, they lead down to the sword room, while on the blue side the two "Side Ducts" lead to the middle and rockets.
-----
There's also narrow choke points in the lead-up to each base;
- Red side has the two orange bridges, which players can get on top of if they're clever.
- Blue side has the ring around the moonpool, hemmed in by the supports (which players can get on top of if they're clever).
------
I'm not sure all of those exits are readily apparent or desirable; watching the replay, very few people took the flooded blue tunnel to the sword room, but almost everyone had a few scrapes at the "Armory" door on red side. I think a part of that may have been the spawn points (which seem to have kicked everyone over to red base because they were still set to neutral... /facepalm)
There *are* multiple ways up to the top floor, but I heard a few people mention that they didn't notice the man cannons that lead from beneath each base to the upper floor. I even set the initial game camera to show where it's at, but people still miss it.
The central area is murder, but it's by design... so it pisses me off slightly that Reach can't handle having 4-6 players in a narrow space. I'm almost wondering if maybe the Halo engine is somehow setup to be more efficient over GIGANTIC areas, since you often encounter very little slowdown on huge maps.
By design, Moonpool is essentially two bases connected by three separate paths stacked on top of each other, and to keep things fair the power weapons all spawn in that area as well (Shotty at the top, Rockets in the middle, sword at the bottom). That all adds up to everyone congregating in the middle.
-----
As far as fixing it goes... You can tell from the map that there's not a lot of options for branching paths if I want to keep things symmetrical. I've considered having the purple and green "Side ducts" lead off to the side, and having the open floor of the attic lead down to the Sword room, but I have three problems with that;
- The fall damage from the attic is too severe.
- There would be no other method into the attic except the mancannons; right now, there's three; mancannons and slinking up the 'struts' in the Armory (again, positioned so that Red and Blue get to the Shotgun at about approximate times)
- I'm out of pieces. Literally. I have a huge Budget left, but I'm down to Decoratives (the entire back wall and ceiling of Red base are Decorative Supports) and Natural items. In the first version of Moonpool, I ended up using stone for Blue Base and I HATED it. It also caused slowdown and looked terrible.
The end result; No pieces left to build and no real room to change the map up. I may have to just kick it down and suggest 2v2 or 1v1. It's really driving me crazy because the map is pretty much perfectly laid out except for slowdown issues in the middle. Was it completely unplayable or just a nagging irritation?
As far as Spawn issues go, after dinner I went in and tinkered with the spawn points. Some of them weren't set to a specific team, which may explain the strange base-switching issues. Hopefully they're a little better, but I still don't have the hang of spawn zones or anti-spawn zones. They always seem to work in the complete opposite of the way that I set them up (which follows all of the FAQs to a T...).
-----
Bregmann Roche said:
I'm really glad everyone likes it and is picking up on the Marathon-esque cramped/confined feel. Instead of leaping from half-finished idea to half-finished idea, I've actually spent my entire Reach career on two maps; Cistern (A terrible map I used to just test out Forge) and Moonpool (which has had two completely different versions). To hear that people are impressed and that it has potential makes all of the un-developed ideas worth it.
So, yeah... the central room lag...
I dunno how big of a lag-inducer they are, but do you guys think yanking the green light object from that central area might help? In an early version of the map, I had a Red Light object in the Red Base, but it caused some noticeable lag because of all the transparent surfaces in there. Taking it out helped, but it appears to have just shifted the problem to the middle.
Would dropping in one of the Special FX objects like "Purple" help, by making it darker? The first version of Moonpool did that and it was playable (though a tad dark, of course).
Roche, was the Spawn issues and framerate the only thing making it unplayable for Matchmaking, or was that comment in reference to it not being a very 'Halo'-ish map?
-----
Thanks to everyone who played it earlier, hopefully we can get it into next week's rotation. If anyone sees me on Live and feels like giving me some pointers on spawn points, I'd love you forever.
RebornYeti
Member
Bregmann Roche said:
No no, thank you!
I honestly didn't think you guys would like this map that much. It's nice to read all this good feedback.
Retro said:
Heh. "Bad things happen here" is probably one of the funniest things I've read this week.
The slowdown wasn't bad to where it was unplayable, but it was a nag. As for lights, I'd remove all of them, and I don't know if Special FXs help in anyway when it comes to slowdown. I'd maybe try a combination of Juicy, Next Gen and Colorblind if you have the budget, or Purple and Juicy.
As for my meager forge offerings, I actually broke down and started in on Downpour, but on the Quarry and not on Alaska. Got most of the initial pieces down, and have a pretty good idea of what the bases will look like. Hopefully the half natural, half forerunnium (Bluegreyium?) metal look doesn't make the map look gaudy.
And I think I might start on a fresh version of Roost to try to iron out most of the bumps that comes with forge pieces.
Blue Ninja
Member
All right guys, thanks for playing. It's true, Lookout's meant for FFA, the team slayer spawns haven't been attuned yet. Needless to say, I'll make sure to fix 'em, and add in some alternate movement paths. I've got some time tomorrow, might start rebuilding it from scratch.
FYI, there's technically three ways to get up to the sniper nest: you can go through the grenade zone of doom, use a jetpack, or climb the big rock that supports it. The latter's a bit 'hidden', but it works.
FYI, there's technically three ways to get up to the sniper nest: you can go through the grenade zone of doom, use a jetpack, or climb the big rock that supports it. The latter's a bit 'hidden', but it works.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
ZayneH said:
Bregmann Roche said:
Thanks very much for the feedback on Kingdom - I'll check out the healthpack and correct that, but I'm glad everyone enjoyed it.
Did you guys just player Slayer on it?
If not, and chance that you tried some objective out on it?
Did anyone save their films? (Would love to watch them just to check the spawn, how people play and what they do etc)
Thanks!
Bregmann Roche
Member
-Yeti said:No no, thank you!
I honestly didn't think you guys would like this map that much. It's nice to read all this good feedback.
Enjoy it while you can. Your next map will probably suck and when we review it we'll all sound like the bitter jackasses that you know us to be.
Imagine there's a small image here of a round yellow face smiling. This image would, in this context, denote a congenial, friendly tone. I believe someday we, on the internet, will develop the technology to display such an image as part of our webforum-y postings.
ZayneH said:
I knew it was gonna be a long post, so I figured I better put some pictures in and at least try to make it a little easier to digest. Ironically, bad things could mean both the general chaos or the slowdown that happens in the center...
ZayneH said:
Yeah, I had a similar issue in red base; nothing game-breaking but noticeable. That was back when I had the red base entirely open to the sky and used a lot of windows.
I eventually pulled the red light object out, and decided to just rebuild the back wall to eliminate any last chance slowdown might have. I can't do much about the center area (it's already pretty bare bones, I originally had some weapon crates jammed there too) except yank out that the light. Hopefully it works, and I'll make sure it's ready for next week's customs (if we have them).
ZayneH said:
I'm not sure if I want any effects in there if they won't help. I was waiting until everything else was done before I got into it, but hopefully that will be soon. The original Moonpool (which is still on my fileshare, if you want to look) used Purple to create a dark feel. In my mind it was more of an undersea base that had been attacked, so I wanted it dark, with torn-open blast doors and crates everywhere.
I don't have the budget for that theme anymore, but I wouldn't be opposed to a filter, especially if it has some effect on slowdown.
ZayneH said:
I've been toying with an idea for a few months that I'd like to try, but I want to get MP put to bed first. If you log in and see me on, shoot me a message or hop into my game (I always leave it open if i'm in forge), maybe check out my spawn issues. I don't want to be "That Guy" who needs help, but I'm at the point where I'm tearing open other maps to see how they did it and still not able to get it to work.
Bregmann Roche said:
Especially me.
Also the gaiety blah blah post.
Blue Ninja said:
I was flying by the seat of my pants when setting up gametypes yesterday afternoon so I should've read posts on here seeing what gametypes were ideal for each map. Sorry.
Retro said:
That's ok, I'm usually "that guy" when I invite people to look at my map either way late at night or a few hours later way early in the morning. Plus when setting up Roost's spawn zones I looked at Atonement's zones. I'm dumb when it comes to zones.
As for films, I put up nearly all of the films from ForgeGAF customs (except for the Kingdom Hill game and a half game on Crown of Flies).
Yeti-Dome
Moonpool
Enforcer Factory
Reactor
Truss
Trestle
Kingdom
Lookout
Atrium
Seashell
timetokill
Banned
Thanks for the film Zayne
RebornYeti
Member
Thanks, Zayne.
If anyone would be willing to render mine, that would be cool. I can't view it otherwise. :/
If anyone would be willing to render mine, that would be cool. I can't view it otherwise. :/
Blue Ninja
Member
Thanks Zayne, I'll have a look at it right now.
Touching up on more of my 1-side map in the Montana area. Built for primarily 1-Bomb and 1-CTF and so far, I got 1-Bomb set up. Will do 1-CTF soon and then pretty much all that will be left is spawn adjustments and adding soft and hard kill zones. Will be a challenge to make it so people can't break the map considering how many different opportunities they could pursue. Of course Slayer is also another gametype, but might also try Territories, Stockpile, and 3 Plots.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
Thanks Zayne - looking forward to watching these!
Sorry i missed that in the test. I heard someone mention Grifball but i thought you were joking because i was there. Just so everyone knows, the place to submit Grifball maps is the GrifballHUB forums. Once posted, the map is tested by several Grifball league players and, if requested, i go through the map in forge and bring it up to matchmaking (or A.G.L.A.) specs.MrBig said:
Since you posted it here (and because i was procrastinating on another task) i took the liberty of repairing it for you. Msg me on XBL so i can get the new version to you.
Digital Limit
Member
So you guys just play once a week on Saturdays? I'd be interested, although I imagine you already have full games.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
Just watched that film Zayne - damn that was a close game. Nice to know it work 5 v 5 too.
Digital Limit
Member
Anyone mind rendering some of these games?
I'd love to watch them at my computer, but I'm not Pro©.
I'd love to watch them at my computer, but I'm not Pro©.
i took some criticisms to heart and have been working on revising truss a fair bit and i would REALLY appreciate if anyone who played it in customs this weekend (or otherwise) could do a quick run through, or fly through, to give me your thoughts before i spend the time really going through adjusting geometry to have everything fit together nicely.
truss.1
again, i roughed out new geometry, so ignore if bits look a tad sloppy, i want to hear feedback about how the map flows now, and, for whats there, weapon placement.
some changes i've already incorporated:
- removed both snipers and sniper nests
- in the place of the sniper nests are stationary chain guns
- in place of the snipers are needlers
- completely revamped the bases. removed the "3 room" building entirely, and built one that should flow better
- added lights with the increase in budget to each base (red and blue)
- moved the shotguns and added grenade launchers (x2) underneath the bridge to encourage movement below
- removed side towers where the man cannons used to be for a much simpler layout
- changed man cannons to launch you to the center "platform" of each bridge and added another man cannon to each side (4 total now)
- added a bit more cover to the bridges
- added a floating platform in front of each base to facilitate more movement into and out of the bases
- changed "glass cover" between the upper and lower bridge so that players couldnt hide or get stuck on it
old Truss
new Truss.1
truss.1
again, i roughed out new geometry, so ignore if bits look a tad sloppy, i want to hear feedback about how the map flows now, and, for whats there, weapon placement.
some changes i've already incorporated:
- removed both snipers and sniper nests
- in the place of the sniper nests are stationary chain guns
- in place of the snipers are needlers
- completely revamped the bases. removed the "3 room" building entirely, and built one that should flow better
- added lights with the increase in budget to each base (red and blue)
- moved the shotguns and added grenade launchers (x2) underneath the bridge to encourage movement below
- removed side towers where the man cannons used to be for a much simpler layout
- changed man cannons to launch you to the center "platform" of each bridge and added another man cannon to each side (4 total now)
- added a bit more cover to the bridges
- added a floating platform in front of each base to facilitate more movement into and out of the bases
- changed "glass cover" between the upper and lower bridge so that players couldnt hide or get stuck on it
old Truss
new Truss.1
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
Made some changes to Kingdom (based on feedback I've received)
Health packs have been adjusted to allow for easy grab.
Plasma Pistols have been moved back from health pack to allow for easier pick up
Added visual flair to help orient player.
Placed Rocket at top mid, increased spawn time to 180 and increased clip size to 1.
Placed Sword bottom mid tunnel, spawn time unaffected (180)
Adjusted a few awkward spawns.
Placed very small soft kill barriers on the large brace above each base (Just below the light)
Please grab the new version - I'm pleased to say this one is pretty much finished.
DOWNLOAD KINGDOM
He who controls others may be powerful but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.
4-10 Players.
Health packs have been adjusted to allow for easy grab.
Plasma Pistols have been moved back from health pack to allow for easier pick up
Added visual flair to help orient player.
Placed Rocket at top mid, increased spawn time to 180 and increased clip size to 1.
Placed Sword bottom mid tunnel, spawn time unaffected (180)
Adjusted a few awkward spawns.
Placed very small soft kill barriers on the large brace above each base (Just below the light)
Please grab the new version - I'm pleased to say this one is pretty much finished.
DOWNLOAD KINGDOM
He who controls others may be powerful but he who has mastered himself is mightier still.
4-10 Players.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
NOKYARD said:
Hmm...any idea exactly where? Players will hit soft kill boundaries if they go near the outer wall edges (the top) or above the height of the Tunnel Braces. Any further detail you can provide would be super.
Had kind of a crazy idea last night and I lack the Forge Knowledge to know if it's even possible to make.
Can you set objects to switch on and off at set intervals, specifically soft kill zones and light objects?
I was thinking of a small map with 4 rooms connected by open walkways. At set intervals during the game, the red lights would switch on and everything outside the rooms would become a soft kill zone; unless you want to die, you have to get to the 'safe rooms' and hope an enemy player isn't there waiting for you.
I was thinking it could be placed in a cave-like area over water, with some light objects maybe making the water look like lava or acid or something.
It sounds like it would be fun on the same level as the notorious Low Gravity Gravity Hammer Bowl Bash we did early on in ForgeGAF Customs.
Can you set objects to switch on and off at set intervals, specifically soft kill zones and light objects?
I was thinking of a small map with 4 rooms connected by open walkways. At set intervals during the game, the red lights would switch on and everything outside the rooms would become a soft kill zone; unless you want to die, you have to get to the 'safe rooms' and hope an enemy player isn't there waiting for you.
I was thinking it could be placed in a cave-like area over water, with some light objects maybe making the water look like lava or acid or something.
It sounds like it would be fun on the same level as the notorious Low Gravity Gravity Hammer Bowl Bash we did early on in ForgeGAF Customs.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
Retro said:
Sadly not possible. You could do it in sequence, but it would be the same everytime.
Sikamikanico said:
Well, I didn't think it would be random... How do you mean "in sequence"; it would happen the exact same way every match? Because that'd be fine; the predictability of the map suddenly becoming dangerous isn't an issue, just that it happens at all and forces players into confined spaces is what would be cool.
ZayneH said:
I forget who made them, but in one of our early ForgeGAF customs, we had two awesome map/gametypes.
1. "Dodgeball"; everyone has Evade, unlimited Grenades, no weapons, and no jumps. The map was essentially a wide open room with a partition in the middle. Now imagine 4v4 , everyone chucking grenades at each other non-stop.
2. "Hammerbowl"; No AA, no grenades, no jumping, Very Low gravity, no damage. Everyone starts armed with a Gravity Hammer. The map is one of the Dish objects; a shallow bowl floating in water. 8 Players, FFA, the only way to kill anyone is the knock them off the bowl into the water.
It was INSANE, and INSANELY FUN. Everybody was laughing their asses off the entire match.
Retro said:
Those sound really awesome. Maybe before ForgeGAF customs start "proper" this week we could play Hammerbowl and get to Hey You's Bereavement. Or have the crazy gametypes in between the regular forge maps?
Though that's less about testing out maps and more like playing fun gametypes which happens during regular customs so I don't wanna step on Dani's toes more than I feel like I'm doing with Forge customs..
timetokill
Banned
Retro said:
Yeah, I was hosting, and I definitely remember the match, though I think it was a non-GAFfer who made the gametype.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
If you guys are looking for crazy fun gametypes, feel free to grab this one and have a giggle - its great fun. I'm considering submitting it to the Community Cartographers to see if they think it would be suitable for inclusion in the infection playlist, purely because its hilarious, and not something you can really exploit or glitch...
Bulldogs on The Playground!
Never played Bulldogs at school? Well now you can see what you were missing out on by playing it in Halo.
Rules:
The bulldogs (or infected) spawn in the middle of the playground. All remaining players stand at one end of the area (home). The aim of the game is to run from one end of the field of play to the other, without being caught by the bulldogs. When a player is caught, they become a bulldog themselves. The last man standing will be awarded 10 points. All other points are awarded as normal.
Each game of bulldogs consists of four rounds. The players will spawn with Evade, a plasma pistol and normal speed. The bulldogs will spawn with Sprint and 120% speed. Players are invulnerable within the haven, which will last for 15 seconds from the moment the first player enters it. A round will end when all players have become bulldogs.
This is laugh out loud fun, with players screaming with triumph (or terror) as they just make it over the safe line.
Here's a video.Bulldogs - The video!
You can download the gametype and map here.
Map Download - The Playground
Gametype Download - Bulldogs!
Bulldogs on The Playground!
Never played Bulldogs at school? Well now you can see what you were missing out on by playing it in Halo.
Rules:
The bulldogs (or infected) spawn in the middle of the playground. All remaining players stand at one end of the area (home). The aim of the game is to run from one end of the field of play to the other, without being caught by the bulldogs. When a player is caught, they become a bulldog themselves. The last man standing will be awarded 10 points. All other points are awarded as normal.
Each game of bulldogs consists of four rounds. The players will spawn with Evade, a plasma pistol and normal speed. The bulldogs will spawn with Sprint and 120% speed. Players are invulnerable within the haven, which will last for 15 seconds from the moment the first player enters it. A round will end when all players have become bulldogs.
This is laugh out loud fun, with players screaming with triumph (or terror) as they just make it over the safe line.
Here's a video.Bulldogs - The video!
You can download the gametype and map here.
Map Download - The Playground
Gametype Download - Bulldogs!