-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo Reach Forge |OT| - Create, Share & Kill
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
MrBig said:
thanks for the clarification. can you, or someone, share the replay?
i'm shocked orientation is an issue. you have cliffs to one side and sea to the other... how could it be more obvious? should i actually differentiate the bridges from each other somehow (like adding decorative rocks on one and not the other)? or is the orientation problem more concerning the bases rather then bridges? i'll playaround with it and post some screens.
Truss.b - Slayer DMRs: Nokyard got most of it. Lights were my biggest gripe. Theres a bit of z-fighting everywhere. I don't like the water on the lower bridges. It just looks wrong and should either be fully submerged or fully dry. I guess it's more of a subjective thing. It's the bases that need to be more obvious, not the bridges, since those are cliff vs. sea.
Reactor - Swat: I heard Nokyard talking to you about this in the game. Really solid map. Just enough cover. Good base definition, orientation.
Sheol - Slayer DMRs: Absolutely bonkers. I don't know what to crit. I guess you achieved what you were going for but I'm not a fan of those AA catering mini-arena style maps. Also 8v8 destroyed it. Needs loadout cams.
Odyssey - Neutral Bomb: Another really solid map that makes great use of neutral objectives. Great vehicle play. Huge improvement over paradiso. I don't think anyone went to that platform with the rockets, which I didn't even know existed until watching the film.
Reliance - Slayer DMRs: Not that great of a slayer map. The defensive base is a death trap. You can get in there, but once the other team starts spawning you are dead. Someone mentioned that the killbariers get you to some area that you're not supposed to be in.
Crossfire - Multi Flag DMRs: Revenant + flat, open base design makes flag stealing too easy. Literally all we had to do is walk in and steal their flag (3 times in a row), and then walk out on the rev. There's also object flashing looking from the back of the bases towards the middle of the map.
Rock Garden - Multi Flag DMR: Needs loadout cams. Another map that 8v8 destroyed. Blue team's flag being two steps away from a teleporter, in an enclosed room, while red is completely open with no means of escape = not good. Seems like all the teleporter does is put you right smack in the middle of the map. It acts as a man cannon, not putting you somewhere strategic like a teleporter is for. Sniper may be OP. I'm mediocre with it and I was easily picking people off with it all over the map from the top of blue. Also having the sniper spawn at the highest point of the map = not good x2.
Lynched - Multi Flag DMR: Hardly any reason to go to the bottom, and the side passages are much too narrow. Makes for a terrible stand off. Sniper's clips need to be cut. Maybe a mancanon from the bases to that middle platform. You hit a soft kill zone when going on those corner mancanons up to the top.
Enforcer Factory - Invasion Skirmish: The perfect gametype for this map. I'd say add one drop zone up to the part in the middle hallway. As someone noted in Dani's customs, that area was almost useless for that gametype.
Yeti Dome - Crazy King: 16 player FFA crazy king goodness. The "winner" got a whopping 30 seconds in the hill. I'd like to see a flag game. This is really starting to become a classic FFA map.
Abyssus - Slayer DMRs: I think my bias against my first few plays of this map is still around. I'll let someone else handle this one.
Deluge - Slayer DMRs: fantastic. Takes the best parts of lockout and cage and put them together.
Verith - Slayer ARs: You know what I think.
Containment - Classic Territories DMRs: Still haven't removed splaser. Bases need more reworking to allow for better vehicle movement.
Here's something I'm doing for watershed static objective games: using Antenna, Smalls as hills, territories etc. Their lights change according to the controlling team, they provide a static, obvious marker as to location, and don't really block shots, grenades. Feel free to use this idea. Just remember to make them gametype specific.
Reactor - Swat: I heard Nokyard talking to you about this in the game. Really solid map. Just enough cover. Good base definition, orientation.
Sheol - Slayer DMRs: Absolutely bonkers. I don't know what to crit. I guess you achieved what you were going for but I'm not a fan of those AA catering mini-arena style maps. Also 8v8 destroyed it. Needs loadout cams.
Odyssey - Neutral Bomb: Another really solid map that makes great use of neutral objectives. Great vehicle play. Huge improvement over paradiso. I don't think anyone went to that platform with the rockets, which I didn't even know existed until watching the film.
Reliance - Slayer DMRs: Not that great of a slayer map. The defensive base is a death trap. You can get in there, but once the other team starts spawning you are dead. Someone mentioned that the killbariers get you to some area that you're not supposed to be in.
Crossfire - Multi Flag DMRs: Revenant + flat, open base design makes flag stealing too easy. Literally all we had to do is walk in and steal their flag (3 times in a row), and then walk out on the rev. There's also object flashing looking from the back of the bases towards the middle of the map.
Rock Garden - Multi Flag DMR: Needs loadout cams. Another map that 8v8 destroyed. Blue team's flag being two steps away from a teleporter, in an enclosed room, while red is completely open with no means of escape = not good. Seems like all the teleporter does is put you right smack in the middle of the map. It acts as a man cannon, not putting you somewhere strategic like a teleporter is for. Sniper may be OP. I'm mediocre with it and I was easily picking people off with it all over the map from the top of blue. Also having the sniper spawn at the highest point of the map = not good x2.
Lynched - Multi Flag DMR: Hardly any reason to go to the bottom, and the side passages are much too narrow. Makes for a terrible stand off. Sniper's clips need to be cut. Maybe a mancanon from the bases to that middle platform. You hit a soft kill zone when going on those corner mancanons up to the top.
Enforcer Factory - Invasion Skirmish: The perfect gametype for this map. I'd say add one drop zone up to the part in the middle hallway. As someone noted in Dani's customs, that area was almost useless for that gametype.
Yeti Dome - Crazy King: 16 player FFA crazy king goodness. The "winner" got a whopping 30 seconds in the hill. I'd like to see a flag game. This is really starting to become a classic FFA map.
Abyssus - Slayer DMRs: I think my bias against my first few plays of this map is still around. I'll let someone else handle this one.
Deluge - Slayer DMRs: fantastic. Takes the best parts of lockout and cage and put them together.
Verith - Slayer ARs: You know what I think.
Containment - Classic Territories DMRs: Still haven't removed splaser. Bases need more reworking to allow for better vehicle movement.
Here's something I'm doing for watershed static objective games: using Antenna, Smalls as hills, territories etc. Their lights change according to the controlling team, they provide a static, obvious marker as to location, and don't really block shots, grenades. Feel free to use this idea. Just remember to make them gametype specific.
There are objectives for every variant up there. I may have mis-labeled it.MrBig said:
Seeing the map was designed for teams of 4 to 6 i was absolutely astounded to find it handled 16 players with aplomb when using Skirmish. The game we played at regular customs saw the timer run out with a 99-99 score.
Keep in mind hitting a soft-kill will reset the flag/bomb.MrBig said:
Blue Ninja
Member
So you played DMRs on Deluge after all, huh? Good to hear it played well, at least. Any more remarks, anyone? 
It's just a bit hard to get out of the base, and since all of the defender spawns are inside of it, you are almost guaranteeing your death by entering it. I forgot that it was an asym obj map when I put on slayer, but an obj game would alleviate most of the problem.Striker said:
Film http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=15360325&player=Mr Kwatz
Crossfire - Multi Flag DMRs: Revenant + flat, open base design makes flag stealing too easy. Literally all we had to do is walk in and steal their flag (3 times in a row), and then walk out on the rev. There's also object flashing looking from the back of the bases towards the middle of the map.
That's because no one was defending the bases; the two flag caps I saw, no one was in the bases when the flag was taken. Same can be said of bases like on Valhalla or Hemorrhage, or really any base. That said, I didn't like how the map overall played in practice, and am retiring it (and the series writing about making Forge maps). There's no where in Forge World I want to build, and I don't enjoy the core MP gameplay enough to devote a new map to it. I did five maps for Halo 3 over the course of nine months, and Halo Reach I petered out at two over six. Love the Forge set, but don't like the world we had to build in, or the gameplay we use to play on them. :\
went in and watched the 8v8 slayer DMR match and it looked like it played pretty well with such a large group. of course the 50 point cap came extremely quickly (shouldnt BTB be set at 75?) but that was to be expected, as its really a 8 to 12 player map.
i dont think i'm going to change the height of the map, though i do miss the sense of vertigo it had before. it would just be too much work for very little gain IMO. i also dont plan on changing the way the water rolls over the lower portion, i like it.
made some other fixes, as requested:
- addressed the "bumps" going into the bases
- removed the lights altogether
and a few things i need suggestions on:
- watching the slayer vid there was virtually no action on the lower bridge. any suggestions to make that a viable spot to be?
- orientation-wise for the bases --- i need help. i know the map inside and out, so i'm not sure exactly what the issue is. should i add an obvious landmark behind a base to make it more clear from afar, or are the complaints more interior centered in which case i'd need suggestions. i played around with adding various rock pieces to the red base to distinguish it from blue and give it a sense of decay, but i struggled with making it look natural rather then random.
- the cover on the upper middle bridges. as NOKYARD suggested, that was one thing that could be changed to make it truly 4 way symmetrical. heres a few screens of what i'm thinking...
4 cover pieces at a 45 degree angle. this set up will keep those platforms as great places to control on the map and maintain the feel of the old cover system.
or
no cover at all. i'm thinking if the top center platform had no cover, it would be a more dangerous place to be, and wouldnt be the focal point of the map it currently is. this may open up the other areas of the map more for movement.
your thoughts?
i dont think i'm going to change the height of the map, though i do miss the sense of vertigo it had before. it would just be too much work for very little gain IMO. i also dont plan on changing the way the water rolls over the lower portion, i like it.
made some other fixes, as requested:
- addressed the "bumps" going into the bases
- removed the lights altogether
and a few things i need suggestions on:
- watching the slayer vid there was virtually no action on the lower bridge. any suggestions to make that a viable spot to be?
- orientation-wise for the bases --- i need help. i know the map inside and out, so i'm not sure exactly what the issue is. should i add an obvious landmark behind a base to make it more clear from afar, or are the complaints more interior centered in which case i'd need suggestions. i played around with adding various rock pieces to the red base to distinguish it from blue and give it a sense of decay, but i struggled with making it look natural rather then random.
- the cover on the upper middle bridges. as NOKYARD suggested, that was one thing that could be changed to make it truly 4 way symmetrical. heres a few screens of what i'm thinking...
4 cover pieces at a 45 degree angle. this set up will keep those platforms as great places to control on the map and maintain the feel of the old cover system.
or
no cover at all. i'm thinking if the top center platform had no cover, it would be a more dangerous place to be, and wouldnt be the focal point of the map it currently is. this may open up the other areas of the map more for movement.
your thoughts?
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=29457&player=CellxzCyReN said:
It's got some dumb stuff added in for scenery, I'll probably edit it and remove it some time. Plays perfect.
MrBig said:
Thanks for the crits. I was going for a 4v4 arena style map, so it is good that is managed that. I have expanded it a bit based upon feeback, so it wont feel so cramped by 8v8 was pure bonkers.
Verith is pretty much the same feel.
I should start making a few more maps for 8v8.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
Anyone got a film of Odyssey?
RebornYeti
Member
MrBig said:
Wow, didn't know you guys tried 16 player Crazy King. That must have been bonkers haha.
I'd love to try CTF on it as well. I have it set up now in 1.4, so we should do it next week in Customs. Oh yeah, and it's also set up for Oddball now, so we could do that too.
GhaleonEB said:
I'm kind of feeling the same way; there are at least a dozen things I've been trying to do with my Silent Cartographer concept map and my third Moonpool revamp that Forge just isn't capable of. I almost feel like all this time in Forge could be better spent actually learning a real map-building tool like Hammer, where I can do crazy stuff like underwater tubes or model an actual island.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=15366926&player=Mr KwatzSikamikanico said:
Striker I'll put yours back up whenever you get back.
I'll be here. Once you put it up let me know. I'll download it and you can remove it for your own storage. Zayne posted videos before so it was helpful since I couldn't make the one game. My primary foundation on that map is set for 1-flag and 1-bomb. But it would be preferable if Slayer worked well enough as well.
Sikamikanico
#1 Dad
MrBig said:
Thanks man, I appreciate it. Looks like you guys had fun on it, which is nice to see.
yepSikamikanico said:Thanks man, I appreciate it. Looks like you guys had fun on it, which is nice to see.
Reliance http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=15369390&player=Mr Kwatz
ok, i think Truss is complete (aside from going in and adding support for all gametypes - this week)!
Blue base
red base
and the tweaked center (i wasn't pleased with the dish) and revised cover
frame rate seems fine now without the lights and the fixed z-filtering issues.
Blue base
red base
and the tweaked center (i wasn't pleased with the dish) and revised cover
frame rate seems fine now without the lights and the fixed z-filtering issues.
Much much much better. Love the changes.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5014/5544971834_484f4b2e07.jpg
In that picture one of the railings is at an odd angle.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5014/5544971834_484f4b2e07.jpg
In that picture one of the railings is at an odd angle.
Blue Ninja
Member
Looking at your game history, MrBig, I see you played regular TS on Deluge and not DMRs. Glad to hear it played so well. Is there seriously no one else with any remarks?
You can have it both ways!op_ivy said:4 cover pieces at a 45 degree angle.
or
no cover at all
your thoughts?
Try playing around with the FFA/Team, and Asymetrical/Symmetrical settings on the cover pieces until you find a combination which works best.
You could make it so there is full cover in 2 flag CTF, No cover in a FFA Slayer, and partial cover in 1 flag CTF (not precise examples, but you get the idea). You can also do the same with the Dish, or any other cover piece.
Well here's the final version of Watershed, after more than a month of working on it, it seems like much longer. It'll be nice to start a new project.
Thanks for all the positive impressions and critiques I have received from here. I hope to have it accepted through Community Cartographers for whenever a community objective or even a community slayer playlist pops back up.
Download.
Thanks for all the positive impressions and critiques I have received from here. I hope to have it accepted through Community Cartographers for whenever a community objective or even a community slayer playlist pops back up.
Download.
Working on an 8v8 KotH or maybe even Neutral Flag. Less Forge bits and more natural surroundings, with a few Man-cannons dotted around for moving around quickly. Class gametypes, since AA's might be a little OTT. With post some pics shortly.
Quick question on Assault, can you do 2 bombs?
Quick question on Assault, can you do 2 bombs?
Watched the film for Reliance.
Two things cross my mind instantly: you chose 8v8 in a map that's generally specified by 4v4 to 6v6 landscaping, at most. I would never truly feel 8v8 works well, as it isn't a BTB map. Also with the gametype selected, you chose Mongoose only so the Warthog at blue base and the Ghost at red base were nulled.
I didn't catch any obscure places being broken. If so, I'll check out who it was if you remember who said it.
Two things cross my mind instantly: you chose 8v8 in a map that's generally specified by 4v4 to 6v6 landscaping, at most. I would never truly feel 8v8 works well, as it isn't a BTB map. Also with the gametype selected, you chose Mongoose only so the Warthog at blue base and the Ghost at red base were nulled.
I didn't catch any obscure places being broken. If so, I'll check out who it was if you remember who said it.
Here's the reenvisioneering i was trying to describe the other day.
Removes the problem frame rate corner and adds a better strafing ramp.
A roundish reactor.
These corner pieces may not look as pretty but they save $750, reduce frame rate issues, and add some nifty jumps, while providing the same amount of cover.
Control Room. Although, i must say your new one looks great.
Complete with servers,
monitors,
and a lunch room.
Removes the problem frame rate corner and adds a better strafing ramp.
A roundish reactor.
These corner pieces may not look as pretty but they save $750, reduce frame rate issues, and add some nifty jumps, while providing the same amount of cover.
Control Room. Although, i must say your new one looks great.
Complete with servers,
monitors,
and a lunch room.
Here, take a closer look. Keep in mind i didn't touch Blue side.vhfive said:
forge issue...
working on supporting all gametypes to wrap up truss, and i'm to a point where forge wont let me place ANYTHING on the map.
for the record, i have $10 left in my budget, but i cant even place objects that cost $10 or are even free, such as objective items...
working on supporting all gametypes to wrap up truss, and i'm to a point where forge wont let me place ANYTHING on the map.
for the record, i have $10 left in my budget, but i cant even place objects that cost $10 or are even free, such as objective items...
MrBig said:
oh? i had no idea there was such a limit. does the UI track your total number of objects?
i have stockpile and territories left to add to truss. any suggestions on how to do this without altering the map much? can i place, for example, a hill marker for KotH and use that same hill marker for different gametypes like territories? (currently, i have a separate hill marker for different game types)
I've done this and now they don't spawn at the symmetric bases at all. I switched it back to team colors, set it to spawn on asymmetric only, tag as Slayer, and gametype specific to be true. It will spawn one at a symmetric base, while the other will be at the asymmetric base. I gave up, and just made a new one for Slayer only, but I don't really like having to resort to that.NOKYARD said:
Damn, mine must be getting close.MrBig said:
You can't do that. Remove support for lesser played gametypes. Only put 6 stockpile flags and 5 territories. There is no UI marker. If you can see object flashing on you map you're edging close to it (which yours certainly suffers from, but not within the bounds of play area.)op_ivy said:
MrBig said:
i guess i can ditch the neutral bomb and neutral flag spawns (lol) and decrease the KotH locations.
what are the most played gametypes? CTF, KotH, stockpile, and headhunter?
what are the least? assault, territories, and infection?
Don't remove the neutral objectives. Add support for KoTH, Flag, Bomb, Headhunter, Stockpile, Oddball, and nothing else.op_ivy said:
I'm saying that from my own experience only. I build things in ways that would prevent that from happening but if you're not worrying about that and build 100 objects in which a lot of them are visible you will obviously get to that point sooner.Hey You said: