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Halo: Reach |OT3| This Thread is Not a Natural Formation

Hitmonchan107

Hitmonchan107

Member
343/Bungie: I'm thinking of applying for a media badge to E3, but I checked the attendee list, and neither of you are listed on it.

Besides seeing new games, I'd really want to go to see the people in charge of my favorite series.

I don't want to waste $900 to not see you, so are either of the teams going to be there?

Edit: I know that it's a no-brainer that you guys would be there, but it's never safe to assume.
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
equil said:
http://vimeo.com/brockoli/newb

greatest 5 second video.
Click to expand...
bet you can't stick.... oh wait nevermind.

But this video is an inaccurate depiction of halo gameplay. Everyone knows the driver can't throw a grenade and drive at the same time. And the passenger was looking the other way.

However videos like this help make the wait for the beta servers coming back feel oh so much longer(even though it probably has nothing do with Halo considering it's Bungie beta testing and not 343).
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Willeth said:
Assists are still broken, sure. So is that weird camo bug, sometimes - I know they said they fixed it in a podcast but I've had it happen to me since (although I think only in Invasion Slayer with a guest).

But there are far more things that are just as legitimate fixes that came from the beta that no-one was vocal about. The placement of the sniper on Sword Base, for example, and the switching of the plasma launcher to the concussion rifle. Placement of hills. Few people mentioned it, but from the amount of stats that Bungie pulled, they can see heatmaps and usage metrics that supersede "Armor Lock is bullshit." It's more "this is how people are dying unusually often and how. This means we need to fix this and that."

EDIT: The thing is, you think nothing of worth was fixed because it's not an issue any more. It's not like every fix was trivial. If grenades were still the same, you'd still be complaining.
Click to expand...

No I loved the grenades in the beta. Its all in my thing.

And your second paragraph, thats not beta fix stuff. Thats balance issues that can easily be fixed in a forge map update...

The beta should be used for HUGE issues, like noone liked bloom, REMOVE it completely.

Except they didn't really change anything after the Reach Beta. They just slightly modified little things that they could do easily. No real reconstruction went into it.

It was basically a server load test to see how MP (and a bit of FF) would work in the wild.
 
K

KevinRo

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
No I loved the grenades in the beta. Its all in my thing.

And your second paragraph, thats not beta fix stuff. Thats balance issues that can easily be fixed in a forge map update...

The beta should be used for HUGE issues, like noone liked bloom, REMOVE it completely.

Except they didn't really change anything after the Reach Beta. They just slightly modified little things that they could do easily. No real reconstruction went into it.

It was basically a server load test to see how MP (and a bit of FF) would work in the wild.
Click to expand...

I agree.. somewhat.

Instead of using the Beta to get community feedback from the players themselves to alter the gameplay, Bungle went into the Beta with a set mindset on how they can FIX their current setup; ala glitches, network performance and whatnot.

Now, it's not that I blame them, infact I would've done the same thing. Once you've committed to a gameplay change as different as the Bloom was in Reach, you have to stick with it. You can't just not do it and say 'my bad llawllollol just playin'. What's irritating is that they used community feedback to try and fix the melee system with the dual beatdowns (which i think is fucking RETARDED) and they won't use the same idea in-regards to bloom.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
KevinRo said:
I agree.. somewhat.

Instead of using the Beta to get community feedback from the players themselves to alter the gameplay, Bungle went into the Beta with a set mindset on how they can FIX their current setup; ala glitches, network performance and whatnot.

Now, it's not that I blame them, infact I would've done the same thing. Once you've committed to a gameplay change as different as the Bloom was in Reach, you have to stick with it. You can't just not do it and say 'my bad llawllollol just playin'. What's irritating is that they used community feedback to try and fix the melee system with the dual beatdowns (which i think is fucking RETARDED) and they won't use the same idea in-regards to bloom.
Click to expand...

So I reread my article I wrote, and I still pretty much haven't changed my view on anything which is actually pretty crazy.

Weird you mention double melee deaths, because thats my 3rd major complaint. Especially the fact its used to mediate host advantage over Live so I said hey make an option to turn it off you know in case people are playing on LAN...where there is no real (major) host advantage.

-
3. Remove simultaneous beatdowns, or add the option to in customs. This simultaneous beatdown is great over Xbox Live, and I understand Bungie has added it to remove the host advantage that was present in Halo 2's beatdown system. The problem is in competitive gaming the player who beats down first and in that case was the fastest to the punch (Aha see what I did there?) should get the kill even if he did have lower health or shields (as long as the enemy's shields/health was low enough to be killed with a melee) Especially when being played on LAN where host advantage is negligible at best.
-

I foresee quite a bit of double DMR deaths too once you start seeing competitive MLGPRO Reach being played by the real players.
 
B

Barrow Roll

Member
When and where is your article going up? I'm pretty interested to see what you have to say. Are you going to post it somewhere that is going to get a lot of traffic and views with the hopes of bring it to the attention of Bungie/343?
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Barrow Roll said:
When and where is your article going up? I'm pretty interested to see what you have to say. Are you going to post it somewhere that is going to get a lot of traffic and views with the hopes of bring it to the attention of Bungie/343?
Click to expand...

Be up here hopefully soon, I'll post its entirety over here in this thread too. Its going through revisions and its not really meaty enough yet either. Its basically my quarrels with Reach and what I hope to see fixed in the future, not necessarily Reach but even the next game. Hopefully people take the time to read it, I spent some time on it.

NullPointer said:
You guys really have to get over the bloom thing.
Click to expand...

I feel I am. This was in response to around May 2010 after the Beta. Just was giving an example of something major they could have changed, given a proper beta and proper time after its conclusion. I really was neutral about bloom at the time too, and now its just part of the game.
 
B

Barrow Roll

Member
xxjuicesxx said:
Be up here hopefully soon, I'll post its entirety over here in this thread too. Its going through revisions and its not really meaty enough yet either. Its basically my quarrels with Reach and what I hope to see fixed in the future, not necessarily Reach but even the next game. Hopefully people take the time to read it, I spent some time on it.
Click to expand...
Looking forward to it. When it's finished you should make the rounds with the Halo sites.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
I don't like the agruement, "STOP COMPLAINING, ITS NOT GOING TO CHANGE" But that REALLY does apply to bloom. I don't think they could change it. Even if they wanted to.

Messing around with kill times, armor abilities, and stuff like that, that's easy.

I WILL CONTINUE MY CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE ARMOR LOCK.
 
Sikamikanico

Sikamikanico

#1 Dad
A27 Tawpgun said:
I don't like the agruement, "STOP COMPLAINING, ITS NOT GOING TO CHANGE" But that REALLY does apply to bloom. I don't think they could change it. Even if they wanted to.

Messing around with kill times, armor abilities, and stuff like that, that's easy.

I WILL CONTINUE MY CAMPAIGN AGAINST THE ARMOR LOCK.
Click to expand...

The video on youtube where a kid has modded the game to remove Bloom says otherwise.

I've never seen Bungie hold up their hands and say "yeah, we made a bad call" on something before. I don't think I ever will.

:(
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
Sikamikanico said:
The video on youtube where a kid has modded the game to remove Bloom says otherwise.

I've never seen Bungie hold up their hands and say "yeah, we made a bad call" on something before. I don't think I ever will.

:(
Click to expand...


They admitted that red screen on ODST when you take too much damage was a mistake.

:D

:(
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
Sikamikanico said:
The video on youtube where a kid has modded the game to remove Bloom says otherwise.
Click to expand...
Just because a modder was able to do it doesn't mean Bungie can do it in a patch that will be distributed over XBL.

I'm sure Bungie has dev builds and such without bloom, but that doesn't mean Microsoft will let them send out a 7.5 GB title update.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Sikamikanico said:
The video on youtube where a kid has modded the game to remove Bloom says otherwise.

I've never seen Bungie hold up their hands and say "yeah, we made a bad call" on something before. I don't think I ever will.

:(
Click to expand...
They said SMG starts were a terrible idea. Among other things in Halo 2. Sure, we had fun with the glitches, but as developers they saw that as a failure. They never outright admitted, but AR starts were bad also. That's why they added the pistol to them later in H3, and how they made the pistol a capable weapon in Reach.

Anyway, that's a mod and I'm not sure if they can do that without significantly changing the entire game. My point is its too big of a change anyway and I don't think there's a way to make it an option.

Besides, bloom isn't even that bad. A good player will still always beat a worse player. However, there is SOME luck factor to the people who spam. It's just about knowing when to spam so you can't miss, and when to pace.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
Major Nelson said:
Plus, don’t miss the Halo: Reach Tournament featuring the Defiant Map Pack, Sunday, March 13, 1 – 5 PM ET

Boston Convention Center – Console Tourney, Level 1, Room 102

Sign up at the tournament desk (same location) starting Friday, March 11 at 10 AM ET
Click to expand...

Looks like this might be the only Defiant showing at PAX. Doesn't seem like they'll have any stations running Halo at the Xbox booth.

Definitely going to sign up for the tournament. Not expecting to do any good, but at least I should get to play some Defiant stuff.

LOL if the tournament is Score Attack on Unearthed!
 
L

LosDaddie

Banned
Gui_PT said:
Schedule a time for tomorrow and decide on an idea or you won't get anything done.
Click to expand...

aw damn, I would've been there yesterday if you guys were on later. I can probably get on around 8pm EDT tonight though
 
Sikamikanico

Sikamikanico

#1 Dad
A27 Tawpgun said:
They said SMG starts were a terrible idea. Among other things in Halo 2. Sure, we had fun with the glitches, but as developers they saw that as a failure. They never outright admitted, but AR starts were bad also. That's why they added the pistol to them later in H3, and how they made the pistol a capable weapon in Reach.

Anyway, that's a mod and I'm not sure if they can do that without significantly changing the entire game. My point is its too big of a change anyway and I don't think there's a way to make it an option.

Besides, bloom isn't even that bad. A good player will still always beat a worse player. However, there is SOME luck factor to the people who spam. It's just about knowing when to spam so you can't miss, and when to pace.
Click to expand...

You guys are quite right. Although I do wonder if it's something they can tweak with their system. They can already add stuff like "Your Flag is away" warning, maybe it could be an added custom option.

I can dream... :)
 
F

feel

Member
Confirms NoF played his first game of Reach flag just recently. I hope people spammed bubbles in that game too or else who knows when that'll get fixed.



And survey is still fubar.. get your shit together urk!! (pretty please?)
 
Miggytronz

Miggytronz

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Score Attack 2X and Fiesta Attack (same settings, random weapons) are a lot of fun, especially for playing my own little meta games during them. Seeing how big of a multi kill I can get with a single clip of the AR (Killimanjaro, seven), using up every drop of ammo from my starting weapons in Fiesta before switching, that sort of thing.

One of my rituals is what I call Elite popcorn: pile up most of the Elites from the Elite boss wave in one spot, and then detonate the last squad to roll through with the accumulated plasma grenades. This was the first entry, which gave me the idea, and this was one from a few days ago. It's a fun way to end the match with a bang, or a dozen.

The one I had just now was unusually spectacular by any measure.
Click to expand...

holy shit that was fucking awesome!
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
Sikamikanico said:
You guys are quite right. Although I do wonder if it's something they can tweak with their system. They can already add stuff like "Your Flag is away" warning, maybe it could be an added custom option.

I can dream... :)
Click to expand...

If they are using the same system as the previous games then I think it means the data for each weapon and it's behavior is located on each .map file. Meaning to update it they would have to edit the guns on each map(easy) re-release those maps on xbla in the full size which would be ridiculous(easy as well but few people are gonna download the full size of all the maps just for an alternate playlist).

Or what I am hoping for is that they can edit it in their developer version of forge which has access to more objects/properties on the map(aka shield door removals from snowbound). Then it would be forged versions of the map that would be automatically downloaded when playing in the playlist(similar to when you play something like griffball and the map is downloaded).

And the video the previous posters were talking about is this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DVe7bYi_8
 
M

molekiller

Banned
Barrel Cannon said:
If they are using the same system as the previous games then I think it means the data for each weapon and it's behavior is located on each .map file. Meaning to update it they would have to edit the guns on each map(easy) re-release those maps on xbla in the full size which would be ridiculous(easy as well but few people are gonna download the full size of all the maps just for an alternate playlist).
Click to expand...

Wow, that doesn't seem like a good design to me... I couldn't understand the reasons for that.
 
S

Sordid

Member
Why does matchmaking think it's a good idea to put people from the UK, Canada, Russia, Australia, France and Italy in the same game? And then give host to the Australian?

I was hoping to quickly knock out the 125 kill challenge but after another similar game I just gave up :*(
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
molekiller said:
Wow, that doesn't seem like a good design to me... I couldn't understand the reasons for that.
Click to expand...

If that's the way the weapon data is stored, I'm sure there is a reason for it.
For all we know it was a tradeoff between combining the map/weapon data or suffering 5 minute load screens, horrible lag, and 15 fps.

Bungie may not make all of the gameplay tweaks you want, but that doesn't mean they don't know good engine design. For the record, I'm not a big fan of bloom, but I'm still not going to second guess their programming skillz.
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
molekiller said:
Wow, that doesn't seem like a good design to me... I couldn't understand the reasons for that.
Click to expand...
Well I used to mod Halo 2 back in the day and weapon specifics like recoil, bullets per shot, spread, velocity etc were all locked to maps individually(for offline purposes that were intended to be played with friends only).

I had to individually patch each map but I'm sure they probably had a tool that allowed to patch the settings to all the maps at once. It makes me appreciate how much work goes into creating a map. Changing the jump height slightly might make a new jump that they want on a map possible but might make another jump they didn't intend for possible as well. I hear it works similarly in Halo 3 and they mentioned in an update their tagging system which sounded awfully similar to Halo 2's system which is immediately evident if you modded H2V as well.
 
A

A27_StarWolf

Banned
ncsuDuncan said:
If that's the way the weapon data is stored, I'm sure there is a reason for it.
For all we know it was a tradeoff between combining the map/weapon data or suffering 5 minute load screens, horrible lag, and 15 fps.

Bungie may not make all of the gameplay tweaks you want, but that doesn't mean they don't know good engine design. For the record, I'm not a big fan of bloom, but I'm still not going to second guess their programming skillz.
Click to expand...

I think it shows a lot of character that they refuse to make the game like it used to be, and they are sticking to their guns.
 
The Lamonster

The Lamonster

Member
ncsuDuncan said:
Fantastic news. Still not quite sure how that detail was overlooked before.
Click to expand...
Yet we still don't have a progress bar in the score area that shows how many total points are required to win the game. We had this in Halo 3. And even Halo 2, I believe.
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
The Lamonster said:
Yet we still don't have a progress bar in the score area that shows how many total points are required to win the game. We had this in Halo 3. And even Halo 2, I believe.
Click to expand...
I noticed that at launch for the first couple of week but I completely forgot about it afterwards till you reminded me. It was easier on my brain to see a bar rather than compare numbers :p but not a huge loss.

The addition of location names within the map was a really good addition that I feel goes underappreciated or maybe just unnoticed by too many players. I do however feel they should have allowed us to do that in forge as well. Like you can set boundaries and if you are with the boundaries of whatever you set, you can enter some short text blurb and it will say that as the location.
 
O

Oozer3993

Member
Barrel Cannon said:
If they are using the same system as the previous games then I think it means the data for each weapon and it's behavior is located on each .map file. Meaning to update it they would have to edit the guns on each map(easy) re-release those maps on xbla in the full size which would be ridiculous(easy as well but few people are gonna download the full size of all the maps just for an alternate playlist).

Or what I am hoping for is that they can edit it in their developer version of forge which has access to more objects/properties on the map(aka shield door removals from snowbound). Then it would be forged versions of the map that would be automatically downloaded when playing in the playlist(similar to when you play something like griffball and the map is downloaded).

And the video the previous posters were talking about is this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DVe7bYi_8
Click to expand...

They would NOT need to release each map. They didn't when they tweaked the damage of the Magnum and grenades in Halo 2. That was just part of a patch.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Barrel Cannon said:
I do however feel they should have allowed us to do that in forge as well. Like you can set boundaries and if you are with the boundaries of whatever you set, you can enter some short text blurb and it will say that as the location.
Click to expand...
Until I start naming them wmwmwmwmwmwmwmwm, so it doesn't even appear, or Penis instead of Shaft. It's a neat idea for those who would take it seriously, but there's so many possibilities to troll the system.
 
B

Barrel Cannon

Member
Oozer3993 said:
They would NOT need to release each map. They didn't when they tweaked the damage of the Magnum and grenades in Halo 2. That was just part of a patch.
Click to expand...
But that was a permanent fix across all game modes, maps for good. It's definitely possible for them to permanently change it, but they won't remove recoil bloom altogether because then everyone who got used to it would start moaning on about how they don't want to relearn the old system.

We are thinking about the prospect of having separate non-bloom maps alongside the originals. But I don't think weapon data is stored within forged map file which is what worries me. Otherwise we would have seen forged maps in halo 3 file share that had different weapon properties. We only saw maps similar to the modded ones bungie released like last resort sans the windmill.
 
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