Support NeoGAF

[Risen]

OH GAAAAAAWD! The damn plasma pistol! Don't forget the insane sword lunge.

Why is it bad for power weapons to be powerful? The problem was the default weapon load out and settings... not the power weapon... in MLG settings with BR starts, the plasma pistol and sword were just power weapons to be controlled.

Make everyone dangerous off spawn, and the game plays much better.

I'm a fan of variety in gaming - I love Wu's post earlier, but too much variety makes it exceedingly hard to balance.

OT, but immigration services just shut down both of our local Mexican restaurants, sad panda. The food was SUPERB!

Lies... it's not possible to get good Mexican food in the states outside of CA, TX, and FL

 

[thezerofire]

Why is it bad for power weapons to be powerful? The problem was the default weapon load out and settings... not the power weapon... in MLG settings with BR starts, the plasma pistol and sword were just power weapons to be controlled.

Make everyone dangerous off spawn, and the game plays much better.

I'm a fan of variety in gaming - I love Wu's post earlier, but too much variety makes it exceedingly hard to balance.

that's MLG though, Noob Comboing was a plague in Halo 2 default matchmaking

 

[stephen08]

um, the pistol kinda sucks if you don't have host. especially vs. AR's.

I very much disagree. I use the pistol all the time, it's my #2 TOD. I out pistol AR users all the time.

 

[Risen]

that's MLG though, Noob Comboing was a plague in Halo 2 default matchmaking

That was entirely my point... it's not the noob combo that's a problem, or the sword lunge... it's the sandbox. If default Halo made you dangerous off spawn, it wouldn't be "overpowered". It would simply be a power weapon you needed to control.

Nerfing weapons, is rarely the answer.

 

[thezerofire]

I very much disagree. I use the pistol all the time, it's my #2 TOD. I out pistol AR users all the time.

not multiple at the same time you don't. I wouldn't say it's "so awesome." Halo CE's pistol was awesome. Reach's pistol is just below the Reach Beta pistol

edit: nm, it took me to firefight instead of competitive

That was entirely my point... it's not the noob combo that's a problem, or the sword lunge... it's the sandbox. If default Halo made you dangerous off spawn, it wouldn't be "overpowered". It would simply be a power weapon you needed to control.

Nerfing weapons, is rarely the answer.

fair enough

 

[stephen08]

not multiple at the same time you don't. I wouldn't say it's "so awesome." Halo CE's pistol was awesome. Reach's pistol is just below the Reach Beta pistol

It depends on the situation really. It's not much easier to deal with two people charging you with ARs if you have a DMR either. That doesn't mean the DMR is not a useful weapon. Reach's pistol is great but the point was how it compared to H3 Pistol. That was the context of the statement.

 

[thezerofire]

It depends on the situation really. It's not much easier to deal with two people charging you with ARs if you have a DMR either. That doesn't mean the DMR is not a useful weapon. Reach's pistol is great but the point was how it compared to H3 Pistol. That was the context of the statement.

ah. that makes more sense.

And on topic, there really isn't a good way to deal with more than one enemy at all, aside from rockets

 

[Striker]

that's MLG though, Noob Comboing was a plague in Halo 2 default matchmaking

They actually tried remedying that in some contests.

For instance, Jeremiah made some CTF Human game on maps like Colossus and Beaver Creek, and instead of Slayer Pro stuff we see in Reach and previously in Halo: CE, he had Team Rifles which rid of all the weapons like the duals, Rockets, Sword, etc. and only had Battle Rifle, Carbine, and either Human Sniper or Beam Rifle on there.

There were ways to get away from the Plasma Pistol, which wasn't as bad to me as you're describing. Sure I hated the long distance it had for homing, but it serves more of a purpose in the game when it was then relegated to a vehicle EMP weapon in later ones. Meh.

Only if we had gotten more unique and creative game type settings in Halo 3 and Reach, oh well.

Halo 3 sword was perfect.

The Sword clangs in Halo 3 were not, however. But that was the new era of Fair™ gameplay.

 

[Tawpgun]

@Tawpgun

It's going to be up for individual preference but at least you are acknowledging the flaws of Halo 3. Too many times on this board have I seen people say Halo 2 was the best MP totally omitting things that were broken like the plasma pistol tracking, or the rampancy of modding.

Until Reach 3 was my favorite for multiplayer. But I would absolutely place Reach above 3 because of hitscan, single shot primary weapon, the way it reads visually, and while I don't feel super strongly about AA's I find them a lot less annoying than someone whipping out a Regenerator and living through an encounter, the Magnum is so awesome in Reach so much so that AR starts are not really a big deal.

So as not to fall victim to my own statement there are things about Reach I have an intense dislike for most notably Armor Lock. I think I can say it is by far the worst thing to be put in to a Halo game ever. I like that the vehicles have their own health independent of the player but they seem a little too weak to DMR fire. Also the Hog feels like needs it to be a little more grounded in general. It's a little bit light and tends to flip moreso than the H3 hog. There are sandbox omissions I miss too. The chopper and missile pod most notably are two things I wish were still part of the sandbox. The banshee also needs a longer cooldown on the flips and bomb.

But keeping in mind that I have to choose a game at the end of the day I choose Reach when I am looking to play some Halo. To me, it is the definitive Halo game at this point in time.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it definitive. But its the Halo game I play at this time. Mainly because everyone else does. My ODST disc broke and I don't feel like spending cash monies on Mythic 2 when I already fucking had them. That was a really dumb idea in retrospect. Glad CEA is making them downloadable.

I hope 343 use Reach as a learning experience.

AA's are abused. The melee mechanic promotes melee rushing. Bloom is bad go away. Sword is both annoying to use (block) and annoying to die from (sprint sword). On that topic I hope no one here is going to insist thats what makes it balanced. Sword Blocking is a terrible way to balance out the sword because of how inconsistent it is. It's bad design when the sword user is annoyed and the victim is annoyed as well. Halo 3 sword was perfect. Perhaps lower the ammo if anything.

I just want to feel agile again and feel like if I'm better than someone and make no mistakes there is a 0% chance they will kill me.

If Halo 4 has slow speed because of sprint I would be very disappointed. If the sniper and precision weapon wreck vehicles like they do BTB will be terrible yet again. I know you said you like vehicle health but unless there's a way to HEAL your vehicles I want it out. Whenever I see a flaming warthog I always end up destroying it instead of using it.

I don't want the game to basically become MLG or anything. Keep the fun, but fun =/= random annoying bullshit.

 

[i nerini del buio]

would you like having actual recoil in Halo? something like hitscan + recoil to avoid cross-map shooting
I've been going through odst lately and I must say I like smg and pistol's recoil

 

[thezerofire]

would you like having actual recoil in Halo? something like hitscan + recoil to avoid cross-map shooting
I've been going through odst lately and I must say I like smg and pistol's recoil

the recoil in the beta seemed fine to me

 

[Plywood]

Can we just have normal guns?

 

[PooBone]

Why is it bad for power weapons to be powerful? The problem was the default weapon load out and settings... not the power weapon... in MLG settings with BR starts, the plasma pistol and sword were just power weapons to be controlled.

Make everyone dangerous off spawn, and the game plays much better.

I'm a fan of variety in gaming - I love Wu's post earlier, but too much variety makes it exceedingly hard to balance.



Lies... it's not possible to get good Mexican food in the states outside of CA, TX, and FL

I'm all for variety in matchmaking, but getting killed w/ a noob combo or a sword lunge (or more recently a sprint followed by a hammer) is not fun.

 

[Havok]

<snip> or the rampancy of modding.

I specifically don't include this (or standbyers, or host bridging, or derankers, or whatever) in discussions here because they aren't functions of design and aren't relevant to the arguments I'm making when I talk about Halo 2's quality relative to the other games. For me, and yeah, you're right, this is a matter of opinion, the design elements of that game came together, perhaps by accident, in a way that no other game has ever done. For the purposes of the debates that we have here, things that were completely unplanned for, things that aren't part of the game design, kind of have to be ignored.

Reach's pistol is great but the point was how it compared to H3 Pistol. That was the context of the statement.

I know this ignores the point of the whole argument being had here (I don't really have any strong feelings either way), but comparing anything to one of the most useless weapons in the series doesn't mean a whole lot.

Whether the problems are new or not is a whole nother discussion, but my point is ok there are clear problems with the Arena, how would you fix them?

I missed this earlier, but I'd just like to chime in with this: Axe the Arena playlist. The ratings and divisions are W/L based now, so incorporate them into other competitive playlists that make sense. Objective, Slayer, whatever. No more seasons, just have the grading change dynamically.

 

[Sai-kun]

Lies... it's not possible to get good Mexican food in the states outside of CA, TX, and FL

you could literally not be more wrong :|

 

[Tawpgun]

Can we just have normal guns?

Halo of Duty. IRL Licensed Weapons. Aim Down Sights. BUT WAIT. Instead of it being 2-3 bullets to kill like in CoD, its 4-5. Boom.

I think we can expect a ton of brand new weapons. As long as their functionalities are similar I won't mind. Still needs to be a hitscan sniper, precision weapon. Needs to be something like a rocket. Something like a sword/shotgun. Everything else is pretty much up to them.

 

[Risen]

you could literally not be more wrong :|

Bias, lack of experience, and more lies

 

[stephen08]

I specifically don't include this (or standbyers, or host bridging, or derankers, or whatever) in discussions here because they aren't functions of design and aren't relevant to the arguments I'm making when I talk about Halo 2's quality relative to the other games. For me, and yeah, you're right, this is a matter of opinion, the design elements of that game came together, perhaps by accident, in a way that no other game has ever done. For the purposes of the debates that we have here, things that were completely unplanned for, things that aren't part of the game design, kind of have to be ignored.

You have to take the game as a whole though. You cannot cherry pick what was great about the game and ignore the bad stuff like it never happened. I can appreciate that modding was not an intentional part of the game but it was still an issue Halo 2 dealt with that was remedied in the later games. Similarly the button combos plagued Halo 2. Even if they were not by design it was what the game was at a certain point. Intent doesn't matter, the final product does because in the end that is what we play.

I'm pretty sure the Banshee was not designed to be so exploitable in Reach but that's what we have got to deal with.

 

[Sai-kun]

Bias, lack of experience, and more lies

Being Mexican and from Chicago says otherwise! ;P

 

[GhaleonEB]

Being Mexican and from Chicago says otherwise! ;P

And.....scene.

 

[Risen]

Being Mexican and from Chicago says otherwise! ;P

lol that and the fact that you have Lady Gaga in your avatar, renders your opinion invalid - you sir will always be able to find good Mexican food and that's simply not fair.

edit: i have no actual clue if that is in fact Lady Gaga... I just know from inference from reading other posts that you like Lady Gaga

 

[thezerofire]

You have to take the game as a whole though. You cannot cherry pick what was great about the game and ignore the bad stuff like it never happened. I can appreciate that modding was not an intentional part of the game but it was still an issue Halo 2 dealt with that was remedied in the later games. Similarly the button combos plagued Halo 2. Even if they were not by design it was what the game was at a certain point. Intent doesn't matter, the final product does because in the end that is what we play.

I'm pretty sure the Banshee was not designed to be so exploitable in Reach but that's what we have got to deal with.

I'd love for the button combos to come back. We're playing a fighting game already, we need them! /kindakiddingbutnotreally

 

[Hitmonchan107]

I really want an HBO shirt, but I'm in this weird middle stage between small and medium. I should go medium, but the last medium shirt I bought looks like a dress on me.

 

[Ramirez]

Lies... it's not possible to get good Mexican food in the states outside of CA, TX, and FL

lol! These 2 places were owned by the same guy, and seriously, best Mexican I've ever ate. I ate there at least 2 times a week, bummed out right now! Rumors of them being illegal had been around since they opened though, which was years ago, weird that it just now happened.

 

[Havok]

You have to take the game as a whole though. You cannot cherry pick what was great about the game and ignore the bad stuff like it never happened. I can appreciate that modding was not an intentional part of the game but it was still an issue Halo 2 dealt with that was remedied in the later games. Similarly the button combos plagued Halo 2. Even if they were not by design it was what the game was at a certain point. Intent doesn't matter, the final product does because in the end that is what we play.

I'm pretty sure the Banshee was not designed to be so exploitable in Reach but that's what we have got to deal with.

I think this is where we disagree, or maybe we're trying to make different points in the discussions we have. I tend to narrow it down to just the design elements and make my comparisons there. It does paint a rosier picture of all the games than what they really were, but its also one of the few ways to avoid the anecdotal nature of describing things as a whole. I think that each game has done different things wonderfully (while totally failing in others) and if I'm talking about how things should be improved I'll absolutely go back and pick the best things from previous games and say 'bring this up to that level.' and I don't see anything wrong with that. I just feel that if you know what was intended, its easier to pinpoint what the real problem is. Take the Halo 3 BR, for example - Bullet spread was never the problem that weapon had, despite the outcry against it - network latency and modeled bullet velocity in place of hitscan were. It's less cherry picking and more looking at what worked and what didn't individually, as well as how they worked in tandem with other systems. This is going to sound totally pretentious, and I don't mean it to, but it's an academic view of the systems in place rather than a judgement of quality, in a sense.

 

[senador]

I'd love for the button combos to come back. We're playing a fighting game already, we need them! /kindakiddingbutnotreally

Do not want.

 

[Striker]

Similarly the button combos plagued Halo 2.

Only in higher ranked games and in places like MLG. You didn't find guys using button combing very often. Even then, they had to get it off before they were 4-shot. It wasn't a simple thing to do, because if it was, then you, me, and everybody else would have used it every combat scenario.

 

[Sai-kun]

I'd love for the button combos to come back. We're playing a fighting game already, we need them! /kindakiddingbutnotreally

asjdlajwdkjad noooo no button combos. 1) It's a shootan game, not street fightah. 2) buttons combos are lame, and 3) I'm bad at them so i hate them and think they suck.

For real though, I don't think they bring anything interesting or fun to the game unless you're already good/really good.

edit: i have no actual clue if that is in fact Lady Gaga... I just know from inference from reading other posts that you like Lady Gaga

It is her, and I do love her <3

edit: someone get me an HBO shirt...STAT.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Is the sniper really hitscan in Reach or just really close to it? I swear theres been times the game makes me lead my sniper shot a bit, could just be lag but wouldn't the whole client host double handshake thing eliminate that and if I hit the body and it was hitscan my xbox would eventually say yea we hit that guy. I think thats a thing right? Maybe that was for another game...

Sai, didn't like active reload in GoW? I thought it added some pretty interesting dynamics to the game with the whole power shots and whatnot. Helped gameplay imo, but might not work so well in HaloMP, I dunno. I think stuff like that would be cool if they added it (WITH OPTIONS TO TURN IT THE FUCK OFF!) God why the fuck did they not do that with bloom.

 

[Havok]

Is the sniper really hitscan in Reach or just really close to it? I swear theres been times the game makes me lead my sniper shot a bit, could just be lag but wouldn't the whole client host double handshake thing eliminate that and if I hit the body and it was hitscan my xbox would eventually say yea we hit that guy. I think thats a thing right? Maybe that was for another game...

There's definitely some weird latency, but it's definitely hitscan. You can hit someone in Asylum from Hemorrhage instantly (I was curious about the same thing and I did it splitscreen and watched the film), which is kind of bananas.

 

[Hitmonchan107]

The time is ticking down for the final HBO video intros! You have until Aug. 17 (a week from today) to send me your entries!

 

[Devolution]

lol! These 2 places were owned by the same guy, and seriously, best Mexican I've ever ate. I ate there at least 2 times a week, bummed out right now! Rumors of them being illegal had been around since they opened though, which was years ago, weird that it just now happened.

Same reason they were closed then, real mexicans making the food. Delicious but illegal. Thems the breaks.

You need to be on my Friends List. I still remember the hardest I ever laughed at a video game. I was playing Halo 2 with my buddy on Ascension and this guys jumps just high enough to have his head peek over a ledge where he's waiting with a shotgun. He blows his face off and the guy falls over the edge of the map and my friend says "Way to jump, Mario." I fuckin died.

You'd probably have had to be there though. :-/

Just add me "i devolution i" =p. Last night barrow challenged me to go a game without swearing, I declined. lol.


Put me in the camp that would LOVE to see the y-axis sped up and a separate sensitivity for different weapons. Neither of which I think will ever happen.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

I think I actually have the game in my recent history but I remember yelling to a few of the people here I said "I thought the sniper was fucking hitscan I'm shooting this guys body!"

and I know I wasn't missing the dude was running in a straight line and all four bullets didn't hit. I'll try and find it and cap it maybe.

 

[Butane123]

Is the sniper really hitscan in Reach or just really close to it? I swear theres been times the game makes me lead my sniper shot a bit, could just be lag but wouldn't the whole client host double handshake thing eliminate that and if I hit the body and it was hitscan my xbox would eventually say yea we hit that guy. I think thats a thing right? Maybe that was for another game...

Its technically hitscan, but there's probably something behind the scenes going on to delay the bullet travel by a frame so that you don't have sweep sniping problems like in Halo 2.

Edit: That just sounds like some crazy lag/latency going on.

One guy last night (from Portugal) took me about three direct shots to the head before he was dead.

 

[senador]

Just add me "i devolution i" =p. Last night barrow challenged me to go a game without swearing, I declined. lol.


Put me in the camp that would LOVE to see the y-axis sped up and a separate sensitivity for different weapons. Neither of which I think will ever happen.

The response was something like "-expletive- no!" :lol

I'd like increased y-axis speed too. Especially against jet packers. The sniper could benefit from it too.

I think I actually have the game in my recent history but I remember yelling to a few of the people here I said "I thought the sniper was fucking hitscan I'm shooting this guys body!"

and I know I wasn't missing the dude was running in a straight line and all four bullets didn't hit. I'll try and find it and cap it maybe.

Devolution brings that up often actually. I don't know if it just lag or what, but seems to happen often enough.

 

[FyreWulff]

Is the sniper really hitscan in Reach or just really close to it? I swear theres been times the game makes me lead my sniper shot a bit, could just be lag but wouldn't the whole client host double handshake thing eliminate that and if I hit the body and it was hitscan my xbox would eventually say yea we hit that guy. I think thats a thing right? Maybe that was for another game..

The Sniper Rifle in both Halo 3 and Reach travels out to max distance in one frame, so while it's not hitscan on a technical level, bad latency might get you.

Only the Halo 2 sniper rifle was hitscan, which allowed you do do sweep sniping because you could get your client to say "yeah I TOTALLY hit that dude, even though my reticule was only on him for a second, trust me Mr Host"

Same with the DMR and Pistol in Reach. Not hitscan, but their bullets travel max distance in one frame, so while they still feel hitscan-esque, the host is still simulating actual bullet travel to make sure your shots are legit.

 

[thezerofire]

One guy last night (from Portugal) took me about three direct shots to the head before he was dead.

that happens to me many times every day

 

[Devolution]

I think I actually have the game in my recent history but I remember yelling to a few of the people here I said "I thought the sniper was fucking hitscan I'm shooting this guys body!"

and I know I wasn't missing the dude was running in a straight line and all four bullets didn't hit. I'll try and find it and cap it maybe.

When firing at distances I've noticed shit just doesn't register sometimes. Especially on Asylum, that map is like the bane of my existence these days when I play and I'm not host or the host sucks for me.

 

[Plywood]

Just add me "i devolution i" =p. Last night barrow challenged me to go a game without swearing, I declined. lol.

Start a swear jar, you'll make a couple grand easy.

 

[Butane123]

that happens to me many times every day

I don't get it too often. Maybe once every few days.

 

[thezerofire]

Start a swear jar, you'll make a couple grand easy.

I thought a swear jar was to make money on other people's swearing. So I'll start one for all of you

I don't get it too often. Maybe once every few days.

In addition to that, I'll get times where it takes more than 5 shots to even break the person's shield. I don't have a bad connection, either

 

[Plywood]

I thought a swear jar was to make money on other people's swearing.

I swear you can do it for yourself.

 

[Devolution]

In addition to that, I'll get times where it takes more than 5 shots to even break the person's shield. I don't have a bad connection, either

Same. Even after lanning the xbox and putting it on a dmz last week, I haven't seen much of a change in some games having bullshit issues when it comes to the ability for certain players to live through everything and shoot people down in no time.

I swear you can do it for yourself.

Both types can be done.

 

[thezerofire]

I swear you can do it for yourself.

that'll be a nickel, thanks

 

[Kuroyume]

I'm pretty sure the Banshee was not designed to be so exploitable in Reach but that's what we have got to deal with.

Really?

 

[Kibbles]

Wasn't there supposed to be an interview up on IGN yesterday? wtffffffzzzzzzzzzz

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Question:

Is it harder to initiate vehicle boarding in Reach or is it just me?

I feel like in previous games you didn't have to be facing the actual vehicle, if you were close enough and the vehicle was moving slowly enough you could just mash X to board. Now I feel like you have to be facing the seat, which can be really difficult when a moving vehicle is that close because you have to move your thumb from the right stick to X.

Maybe I'm crazy, I just feel like vehicle boarding was more fun in Halo 2 and 3. I'm also not a fan of the stunning effect on the ousted driver. I don't want it to return to Halo 2's system where you can immediately board the vehicle you were just booted out of, but I'm not a fan of way it works in Reach. If you get boarded, there is nothing you can do. You can't bail out to avoid the melee or stun, you can't run or shoot, and you can't re-board.

 

[Havok]

Maybe I'm crazy, I just feel like vehicle boarding was more fun in Halo 2 and 3. I'm also not a fan of the stunning effect on the ousted driver. I don't want it to return to Halo 2's system where you can immediately board the vehicle you were just booted out of, but I'm not a fan of way it works in Reach. If you get boarded, there is nothing you can do. You can't bail out to avoid the melee or stun, you can't run or shoot, and you can't re-board.

I agree with this. I hate the stun. Reboarding shouldn't be possible, but you also shouldn't be a sitting duck for anybody watching you, unable to even crawl away or turn around fast enough to face them.

 

[Striker]

The stunning effect is another line in the new era of Fair™ gameplay. No reason you should also be locked in once somebody latches on. The best part of Halo 2 boarding was somebody hijacking your Warthog driver seat and you get out before his animation finishes and meleeing him.

 

[FyreWulff]

The stunning effect is another line in the new era of Fair™ gameplay. No reason you should also be locked in once somebody latches on. The best part of Halo 2 boarding was somebody hijacking your Warthog driver seat and you get out before his animation finishes and meleeing him.

The best part about Halo 2 hijacking was turning the camera around to face their back for when you were ejected, and meleeing as you left the hog, assassinating them.