Support NeoGAF

[Risen]

Because I've watched MLG streams and it seems like all they do is spam. Which for them might be the best way to play because if you spam teamshot on those small maps you're bound to wreck people.

http://forums.majorleaguegaming.com/topic/216436-halo-reach-bloom-consistency-analysis/

This is why you see so much spam on LAN and streams where there are folks with wayyyyy above average uploads and low latency connections.

It is far less frustrating on LAN or the right connection... the "cheating the bloom" mechanic is understanding natively the probability that a certain cadence will land a high percentage of time given the range. There are a ton of pro's who do not just spam and trust perfect aim however... Roy switches his up, pistola will, lethul typically won't, enable, assault, flamesword - I see them spam a ton as well. Ninja for sure... Mikwen switches up, walshy does and has a really solid shot in Reach as a result.

 

[PooBone]

Maybe they use the whole area of T&R before you enter the ship + the entry. The unqiue feature is the teleporter/beam, that moves you up and down.

That would be awesome. That is the hardest part of the game on legendary solo. (the base of the grav lift)

 

[Tawpgun]

http://forums.majorleaguegaming.com/topic/216436-halo-reach-bloom-consistency-analysis/

This is why you see so much spam on LAN and streams where there are folks with wayyyyy above average uploads and low latency connections.

It is far less frustrating on LAN or the right connection... the "cheating the bloom" mechanic is understanding natively the probability that a certain cadence will land a high percentage of time given the range. There are a ton of pro's who do not just spam and trust perfect aim however... Roy switches his up, pistola will, lethul typically won't, enable, assault, flamesword - I see them spam a ton as well. Ninja for sure... Mikwen switches up, walshy does and has a really solid shot in Reach as a result.

And that is why bloom is bad.

 

[The Librarian]

I'm not, Reach firefight is so bland I dont even care.

There's no way you can play ArcadeFight and call it "bland." Puh-lease!

 

[thezerofire]

There's no way you can play ArcadeFight and call it "bland." Puh-lease!

Pretty much all Firefight I've played is pretty bland

 

[feel]

Yeah I don't know if it's because I played it in a forced way for challenges during launch or what, but Reach firefight just doesn't feel like it should to me now.

Reach Gameplay. The matchmaking makes Firefight so bleak

nice for ghaleon though, and I'm already getting plenty of satisfaction on the decisions being made in the campaign side of the package so it's not that big of a deal

 

[Woorloog]

IMO Reach Firefight problems stem from the AI. It's too accurate and rather passive. In ODST, the enemies all attacked you, in Reach, they send small groups. And accuracy... well, have you been shot with a FRG while jetpacking or sprinting?
It's funny how subtle the difference is. For a casual watcher, the Firefights probably look like being the same.
I wonder, has anyone done FF settings that are as close to ODST FF as possible, including adjusting AI behavior?

 

[squidhands]

Speaking of that crane switch on Longshore. I felt really really stupid. The other day I was messing around in Halo 3 again and It's always bugged me that I couldn't figure out where the crane controls were. Turned out they were in that building. I felt so damn stupid. I spent a lot of time the few games I ever played on that map trying to find the damn controls. I felt so so damn stupid. I'm talking brain dead stupid.

Im impressed that you admitted it.

Or they could troll us with the entire library area as a firefight map *shudders*

Thank the gods it's too late to give them any ideas, though if this turns out to be the case I will blame you directly.

Will that be on Reach gameplay or Halo CE gameplay?

Reach Firefight is not very fun for some reason, feels soul-less compared to the one in ODST. And I don't find the waves (in MM) satisfying like they used to be in odst.

I really believe that's in large part to the unlimited ammo supply that you get in every playlist. It completely takes away from any feel of desperation if you don't have to constantly be aware of what weapon you have and how much ammo is laying around for it. Ammo crates need to go at the very least, or have a change made to where it only stocks a limited supply. Beginning of the match weapon drops should probably be altered as well to be something you get much later in the game. It would be nice to have more of a swarm mentality with the AI, instead of just being attacked by one squad at a time.

 

[Risen]

And that is why bloom is bad.

It's also why players like Tashi look at videos posted by folks and come to the conclusion people aren't understanding the mechanic.

Take Tunavi's vid earlier - he stated he was at the end of the game and felt he had to spam... he didn't. I look at that video and go, there were other cadences that would have killed the player faster - particularly on that connection and at that initial range.

I'm not defending bloom, I want it gone, as I've said, online it does more to increase the connection gap rather than skill gap among good players - but that discussion does a pretty good job of explaining the thought process behind pros that may not want bloom gone.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I like how the heretic Elite rocket launchers magically lock onto you in Firefight

 

[Woorloog]

I like how the heretic Elite rocket launchers magically lock onto you in Firefight

Oh dear god, don't remind me of this...

EDIT i managed to read the quote as "Heretic Elite Monkey Launchers"...

 

[Tha Robbertster]

So many pages to catch up to and a lot of new discoveries. Really hyped for the TU and Halofest.

I wonder though how things will work when the TU comes out before Anniversery. Will there be a playlist with the Reach maps that have the TU settings or do we have to wait till Anniversry launches to actually play with the new settings?

 

[Woorloog]

So many pages to catch up to and a lot of new discoveries. Really hyped for the TU and Halofest.

I wonder though how things will work when the TU comes out before Anniversery. Will there be a playlist with the Reach maps that have the TU settings or do we have to wait till Anniversry launches to actually play with the new settings?

I'd assume the day TU goes online we'll get a playlist containing new stuff.
Then just pull the modes and start playing with the settings.

 

[Hey You]

One thing I forgot to ask with that age question before. Where are all of you located =).

Probably late considering how fast this thread moves, but British Columbia, Canada.

 

[thezerofire]

Orange County, California

I don't remember how far back that was, or if I answered it, but there you go.

 

[The Librarian]

Pretty much all Firefight I've played is pretty bland

How is GrenadeFight bland? 2x Score Attack?

 

[thezerofire]

How is GrenadeFight bland? 2x Score Attack?

It just is. I can't explain it. It just isn't as fun as ODST's somehow.

 

[Woorloog]

How is GrenadeFight bland? 2x Score Attack?

2x score attack certainly is. Normal Score attack is bland as well, way too hard alone on heroic.
Always the same enemies... IMO that's the biggest issue. Second is that why the hell is Active Camo load-out in Firefight? EDIT i know the second is unrelated but still.

 

[Hey You]

It would be awesome if they added the ability to upload your own "preview" map screenshot instead of the default forge world picture. Then people would know what the hell they are voting for.

 

[Woorloog]

It would be awesome if they added the ability to upload your own "preview" map screenshot instead of the default forge world picture. Then people would know what the hell they are voting for.

AFAIK Reach was supposed to have this but it was cut due time constraints. Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Karl2177]

I don't remember how far back that was, or if I answered it, but there you go.

Ames, Iowa.

 

[feel]

How is GrenadeFight bland? 2x Score Attack?

These may sound great to you, but they probably do nothing to make it better for people who don't love the normal reach firefight, if anything they make it even less enjoyable for them.

 

[The Real Napsta]

Reach Firefight is a shooting gallery and ODST is about survival. That's the best way i can explain it.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Hartlepool North East UK

 

[Hey You]

AFAIK Reach was supposed to have this but it was cut due time constraints. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Yeah it was. There were some other features like switches you could toggle and more that didn't make it in because of limited time.

 

[Tawpgun]

How is GrenadeFight bland? 2x Score Attack?

Napsta explained it well.

The novelty of arcade fight goes away quick. I don't feel any satisfaction. No challenge. And in limited your team ends up fucking you over

Not to mention the lag.

 

[thezerofire]

Reach Firefight is a shooting gallery and ODST is about survival. That's the best way i can explain it.

This is probably the main problem. I don't feel like there's much challenge to Reach's firefight. I either get killed with a cheap rocket or FRG, or I run all over the enemies. I don't feel the same desperation.

 

[HiredN00bs]

I disagree changes need to be made to any of the DMR's traits (except the removal of bloom of course). In fact I may even propose experimenting and upping the damage to make it a 4 shot weapon.

All of the main components in the sandbox, the shotgun, the rockets, the sniper rifle have gotten massive boosts from the previous iteration. The shotgun has a extremely long kill range. The blast radius of the rockets have also seen an increase. Due to the slow movement speed and altered hit boxes, being effective with the sniper is not very challenging.

All these massive boosts to the power weapons allow for a utility weapon like the DMR without bloom, to fit right in and bring balance to what were already considerably over powered power weapons.

Just as one example, the AR already feels underpowered to the DMR at its (the AR's) intended range, and you're advocating dramatically increasing the DMR's effectiveness. I don't see how that is balanced.

Welcome to GAF, by the way, I see more and more familiar faces every day, especially recently. It's probably a product of the mass exodus from IGN and the long approval time on NeoGAF account registration.

 

[The Librarian]

Reach Firefight is a shooting gallery and ODST is about survival. That's the best way i can explain it.

The beauty of Reach's Firefight is the customization options. You can set it up the way it was in ODST. If you don't like it the way it is in Matchmaking, gather up your friends, tailor the game to your needs, then have at it. You can't call Reach's Firefight bland when there are so many ways to customize it and give different experiences.

 

[thezerofire]

Just as one example, the AR already feels underpowered to the DMR at its (the AR's) intended range, and you're advocating dramatically increasing the DMR's effectiveness. I don't see how that is balanced.

Welcome to GAF, by the way, I see more and more familiar faces every day.

I completely disagree. The AR seems to overpower the DMR all the time.

 

[Woorloog]

This is probably the main problem. I don't feel like there's much challenge to Reach's firefight. I either get killed with a cheap rocket or FRG, or I run all over the enemies. I don't feel the same desperation.

I have an idea... One life, Maximun Overshield, no shield/health recharge, no ammo boxes, no weapon drops.

I completely disagree. The AR seems to overpower the DMR all the time.

Not in my experience. AR is my worst weapon in Reach, the only one i have negative K/D spread. I lose against DMR with AR, i win (often) against AR users with DMR.

 

[Karl2177]

The beauty of Reach's Firefight is the customization options. You can set it up the way it was in ODST. If you don't like it the way it is in Matchmaking, gather up your friends, tailor the game to your needs, then have at it. You can't call Reach's Firefight bland when there are so many ways to customize it and give different experiences.

Give me a link to the ODST version of the gametype. It doesn't exist because certain options were overlooked in the customization process.

Also, another want for the TU: Classic Halo radar. No height detection.

 

[TimeLike]

The beauty of Reach's Firefight is the customization options. You can set it up the way it was in ODST. If you don't like it the way it is in Matchmaking, gather up your friends, tailor the game to your needs, then have at it. You can't call Reach's Firefight bland when there are so many ways to customize it and give different experiences.

No credits in custom matches takes away a lot of the fun.

 

[Woorloog]

No credits in custom matches takes away a lot of the fun.

That too and the biggest issue is that the AI attacks one squad at time and this cannot be adjusted in any way. Thus the game stays as shooting gallery.

Also, another want for the TU: Classic Halo radar. No height detection.

This. I'd prefer to play without Radar at all if possible but this would be very good.

 

[Risen]

Just as one example, the AR already feels underpowered to the DMR at its (the AR's) intended range, and you're advocating dramatically increasing the DMR's effectiveness. I don't see how that is balanced.

Welcome to GAF, by the way, I see more and more familiar faces every day.

The answer is bumping the effectiveness of the AR and Pistol a tad, not nerfing the DMR... Or in default Halo very judicious placement of DMR's on the map. It's not as if people are playing a team full of AR's vs a team full of DMR's.

In games where DMR's are the default load out, the point is moot as everyone is spawning with a weapon that makes them dangerous off spawn.

 

[HiredN00bs]

I completely disagree. The AR seems to overpower the DMR all the time.

Really? You can 5-shot an AR user at the maximum rate of fire (I realize you don't always do this, but you can).

 

[RebornYeti]

The beauty of Reach's Firefight is the customization options. You can set it up the way it was in ODST. If you don't like it the way it is in Matchmaking, gather up your friends, tailor the game to your needs, then have at it. You can't call Reach's Firefight bland when there are so many ways to customize it and give different experiences.

This may seem like a small gripe, but it's actually my biggest gripe with Reach's Firefight:

Ammo Crates. I prefer the Weapon racks in ODST. That's how it became more of a survival mode than shooting gallery. You really had to use ammo sparingly and intelligently in ODST, and I miss it.

 

[thezerofire]

Not in my experience. AR is my worst weapon in Reach, the only one i have negative K/D spread. I lose against DMR with AR, i win (often) against AR users with DMR.

at close range there's really no comparison, you just can't shoot the DMR fast enough. Even at medium-close range if you burst fire the AR you can beat the DMR a lot of the time. If you miss one shot with the DMR you're pretty much hosed. And heaven help you if you have a DMR and you're being shot with 2 AR's.

Really? You can 5-shot an AR user at the maximum rate of fire (I realize you don't always do this, but you can).

at close range that doesn't happen very often, you're more likely to miss a shot. Especially because you don't need your whole AR reticule over a person to hit with most of the bullets

 

[The Librarian]

Give me a link to the ODST version of the gametype. It doesn't exist because certain options were overlooked in the customization process.

Can't you limit lives like in ODST?

No credits in custom matches takes away a lot of the fun.

Then the gametype isn't for you, and complaining about it being "bland" is utterly useless. If you're playing it in large part for the credits, you're playing it for the wrong reason.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I completely disagree. The AR seems to overpower the DMR all the time.

ROFLMAO. NO. Just no. I love my AR but dude. The DMR destroys it at any range. The only time I really beat a DMR user with an AR is if they just suck. IF we're on the same skill level 9 outta 10 times the DMR wins.

All this talk of firefight reminds me. I need to play some that is set up like ODST had it. Time to go hunt down a setup that brings it close. The only real complaint I have firefight wise in Reach is that there is a huge lack of vehicle play in most of the maps including those that have vehicles.

 

[Karl2177]

Can't you limit lives like in ODST?

Yes, but there's not a real sense of survival like there was in ODST. If enemy aggression was more apparent, weapon racks had limited ammo, and an assortment of other things would make it like ODST. I'm not in the field that thinks it's bland, I just think it could be even better.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Hartlepool North East UK

Holy fuck man, I'm from Durham!

 

[Risen]

ROFLMAO. NO. Just no. I love my AR but dude. The DMR destroys it at any range. The only time I really beat a DMR user with an AR is if they just suck. IF we're on the same skill level 9 outta 10 times the DMR wins.

.

How do you know you're on the same skill level?

 

[Woorloog]

*looks outside, the sun's setting*
*sigh* Once again it seems that i've wasted a day reading GAF and playing Halo. A million things i should do...
I'll be playing Reach again in 5 minutes, anyone wanna play?

 

[Halcylon]

Yes, but there's not a real sense of survival like there was in ODST. If enemy aggression was more apparent, weapon racks had limited ammo, and an assortment of other things would make it like ODST...

I think I've played all off 100 Fire Fights in Reach to gets some challenges and achievements, but ODST felt more real. Not sure what the cause of this was because there is a sense of danger and need for survival in Reach, but I think it was the limitations of ODST - speed, power, jumping, no armor abilities, etc. that made it more impressive and fun.

 

[Tashi]

How do you know you're on the same skill level?

Because True Skill is amazing

 

[Tunavi]

No credits in custom matches takes away a lot of the fun.

hahahahahahah

Spoiler

wait this is just sad

 

[GhaleonEB]

That too and the biggest issue is that the AI attacks one squad at time and this cannot be adjusted in any way. Thus the game stays as shooting gallery.

Yup. This is the single biggest problem with the design of Reach's Firefight (aside from the netcode). The only ways to make it truly challenging is to do so in ways that are not fun; Legendary is too punishing, while things like Heretic Heavies feature a lock-on rocket launcher (!?).

I wish the AI scaled how many squads advanced depending on the number of players, one squad moving in per player. Right now four players can sit back and dismantle everyone, seldom threatened by one squad of four Covenant to move foward. But if four players got rushed by 16 enemies, it would be a whole different ball game.

One way to improve the game and make it challening in an interesting way would be to take the ammo crate out. Aside from the squad mechanics, that's the biggest contributor to the lack of challenge. Players would spread the map, rather than hold up around the crates, and weapon scavenge between waves rather than hold onto the DMR the entire time.

 

[TimeLike]

hahahahahahah

Spoiler

wait this is just sad

Why? Mrs. TimeLike & I like to see credit progression. We only play in spurts every once in a while anyway.

 

[MrBig]

Fighting elites with human weapons is the only fun/challenging aspect of FF for me.