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[kittens]

*looks outside, the sun's setting*
*sigh* Once again it seems that i've wasted a day reading GAF and playing Halo. A million things i should do...
I'll be playing Reach again in 5 minutes, anyone wanna play?

I dunno, if you're anything like me, the worst time to play Halo is when you feel like you've wasted your day. Go do something productive, or go for a walk, or read a book. Halo can wait.

Edit: WTF, I feel like half my posts are at the top of the page.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Fighting elites with human weapons is the only fun/challenging aspect of FF for me.

I love it, personally, the cheap rocket launcher aside. I make it a goal of mine to get through Arcadefight with zero deaths (and usually pull it off). The all-Elite waves are pretty great. I hope/wish the other Elite squads were integrated as well. Heck, I'd take an Elitefight:

Elites
Jetpack Elites (Rangers)
Elite Heretics
Heretic Snipers
Heretic Heavies
Spec Ops Elites
Elite Generals

Put that in rotation for a Set. Mmmmm.

 

[Woorloog]

I'm online now if someone wants to play. I keep checking GAF during game searching.
I quickly modified stock FF classic a bit. 110% weapon and melee damage (alternatively AI damage resistance could be tweaked; Reach AI is too strong or weapons are too weak IMO), no loadouts nor radar nor ammo crates, AR/Magnum start, no health recharge and 90% shield recharge, more damage resistance (150% is too much though, will drop it do 110%) to compensate. Will have to tweak AI through skulls as well.. but this should be closer to ODST. Oh and immunity to Headshots. Reach is the only Halo where the AI can headshot a player.
EDIT additional changes. Two loadouts, Shotgun/Magnum because shotgun is not available from weapon drops (right?) and DMR/AR. Maybe someone is willing to test this later?

 

[Tha Robbertster]

Netherlands, Limburg (not that anybody knows what a Limburg is)

I have to agree with the people saying Reach's firefight is a bit boring. But I have the same problem to a lesser expand to ODST's firefight. The AI can only stay fresh for a certain time and I can predict most of the time wath the AI will do.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Oh and immunity to Headshots. Reach is the only Halo where the AI can headshot a player.

I never thought about this. It rarely happens, but when it does, the natural response is "BULLSHIT!"

lol

 

[Woorloog]

I never thought about this. It rarely happens, but when it does, the natural response is "BULLSHIT!"

lol

You know, AI once headshotted me with a deflected nerfle needle. Yes. The needle bounced from the ground and hit me in head.

 

[squidhands]

I love it, personally, the cheap rocket launcher aside. I make it a goal of mine to get through Arcadefight with zero deaths (and usually pull it off). The all-Elite waves are pretty great. I hope/wish the other Elite squads were integrated as well. Heck, I'd take an Elitefight:

Elites
Jetpack Elites (Rangers)
Elite Heretics
Heretic Snipers
Heretic Heavies
Spec Ops Elites
Elite Generals

Put that in rotation for a Set. Mmmmm.

I may set this up with some more ODST style settings for the weekend if you and anyone else is interested in farting around for no monies.

I'm online now if someone wants to play. I keep checking GAF during game searching.
I quickly modified stock FF classic a bit. 110% weapon and melee damage (alternatively AI damage resistance could be tweaked; Reach AI is too strong or weapons are too weak IMO), no loadouts nor radar nor ammo crates, AR/Magnum start, no health recharge and 90% shield recharge, more damage resistance (150% is too much though, will drop it do 110%) to compensate. Will have to tweak AI through skulls as well.. but this should be closer to ODST. Oh and immunity to Headshots. Reach is the only Halo where the AI can headshot a player.
EDIT additional changes. Two loadouts, Shotgun/Magnum because shotgun is not available from weapon drops (right?) and DMR/AR. Maybe someone is willing to test this later?

sounds interesting. throw me a FR if you want.

 

[Tawpgun]

How do you know you're on the same skill level?

This is what I was going to post.

Hirednoobs, you have to take player skill into account. A good player with a DMR will most likely shit on any AR user at any range. Assuming they both engage the 1 V 1 at the same time.

However take 2 mediocre players in this duel and the AR would probably win. And the good player using an AR vs. a mediocre player using DMR doesn't apply because the good player will switch to the pistol every time

Rewarding skill is good. It shouldn't be a rock paper scissors match.

 

[Tunavi]

Why? Mrs. TimeLike & I like to see credit progression. We only play in spurts every once in a while anyway.

You just said something wasn't fun because you weren't "awarded" a bunch of numbers afterwards. Credits have absolutely no effect on gameplay, but you're making it sound like they do.

I just want people to play for fun, not credits. Its a major major pet peeve of mine, thats all.

btw, it sounds like Woorlong is your wife and you guys post on GAF together? thats...awesome!

 

[Hypertrooper]

I love(d) ODST's firefight on Lost Platoon. The most epic memories are coming from this map. Fighting on a big map. Brute Choppers and Wraith are attacking you in the same time, and don't forget the Brutes, Grunts and Jackals. In Reach: Only Wraiths and sometimes a Ghost. But never that much like on Lost Platoon. And don't forget the ChainHog. <3.

 

[BigShow36]

This is what I was going to post.

Hirednoobs, you have to take player skill into account. A good player with a DMR will most likely shit on any AR user at any range. Assuming they both engage the 1 V 1 at the same time.

However take 2 mediocre players in this duel and the AR would probably win. And the good player using an AR vs. a mediocre player using DMR doesn't apply because the good player will switch to the pistol every time

Rewarding skill is good. It shouldn't be a rock paper scissors match.

Precisely. The DMR should beat the AR at anything but extremely close range. Why? Because it requires more skill. The AR is there for people with poor aim to still have fun and have a chance if someone else misses a shot. It is not a skill weapon, it is a cleanup weapon. As such, the DMR should have a greater reward when used skillfully than the AR.

 

[Woorloog]

I may set this up with some more ODST style settings for the weekend if you and anyone else is interested in farting around for no monies.

sounds interesting. throw me a FR if you want.

I will EDIT Empyrus is my GT, i'd rather not type a message using controller... I mean notification that Empyrus is me EDIT 2 your friendlist is full. We need to bombard MS with requests to expand it...
Additional changes: AI now has better hearing and sight and 90% damage resistance.
The game feels better right away... Will need to finish tweaking and test it later. But now to MM, i've played enough FF for single day

 

[thezerofire]

Precisely. The DMR should beat the AR at anything but extremely close range. Why? Because it requires more skill. The AR is there for people with poor aim to still have fun and have a chance if someone else misses a shot. It is not a skill weapon, it is a cleanup weapon. As such, the DRM should have a greater reward when used skillfully than the AR.

My problem is that if you have a DMR, and you're really good with it, you're still not going to beat two AR users, and you'll probably be hard pressed to kill even one of them. I guess that's Reach's team emphasis kicking in, but I do miss the individual skill aspect.

 

[BigShow36]

My problem is that if you have a DMR, and you're really good with it, you're still not going to beat two AR users, and you'll probably be hard pressed to kill even one of them. I guess that's Reach's team emphasis kicking in, but I do miss the individual skill aspect.

Agreed. The individual has been nerfed since Halo 2 got released, and its a damn shame. However, with the removal of bloom and the apparent inclusion of bleed-through damage, the DMR's kill speed should increase rather dramatically. This will allow an individual to have a better chance against two lesser skill opponents.

What really needs to happen is that we need to get a faster strafe speed. Its simply too slow right now. Also, removal of the massive bullet magnetism on the AR would be great, but thats not going to happen.

 

[Account Attempt #4]

I think I've played all off 100 Fire Fights in Reach to gets some challenges and achievements, but ODST felt more real. Not sure what the cause of this was because there is a sense of danger and need for survival in Reach, but I think it was the limitations of ODST - speed, power, jumping, no armor abilities, etc. that made it more impressive and fun.

Not to mention limited ammo supply in the crates. It really put pressure on the player and heightened the tension.

EDIT: Burbank, CA

 

[Woorloog]

OT but very nice sunset outside in Helsinki
Hmph, i regret not having a camera.

 

[thezerofire]

Agreed. The individual has been nerfed since Halo 2 got released, and its a damn shame. However, with the removal of bloom and the apparent inclusion of bleed-through damage, the DMR's kill speed should increase rather dramatically. This will allow an individual to have a better chance against two lesser skill opponents.

What really needs to happen is that we need to get a faster strafe speed. Its simply too slow right now. Also, removal of the massive bullet magnetism on the AR would be great, but thats not going to happen.

Yep, strafe needs to come back. It looks good that it will though

 

[Hypertrooper]

There are moments, where I regret flying to Seattle. Yesterday was such a moment. And today I regretted it again.. Damn it. Damn it. Damn it.

One thing I forgot to ask with that age question before. Where are all of you located =).

Rietberg, NRW, Germany. Wait a second? According to my map, it should be near Bielefeld. But... Bielefeld doesn't exist.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

My problem is that if you have a DMR, and you're really good with it, you're still not going to beat two AR users, and you'll probably be hard pressed to kill even one of them. I guess that's Reach's team emphasis kicking in, but I do miss the individual skill aspect.

Now that I'll give you. DMR vs two AR really is an impossible situation for the DMR most of the time. That I won't deny at all.

 

[BigShow36]

Yep, strafe needs to come back. It looks good that it will though

I haven't seen any indication that movement acceleration has been altered. Am I missing something?

343 has done some good things with bloom and bleedthrough, but we still really need faster strafing.

 

[Shake Appeal]

@shakeappeal

Didn't you say you were writing a novel and therefore didn't have time to play Reach?

Somehow I still find the time to troll uptight-as-ever HaloGAF.

 

[thezerofire]

I haven't seen any indication that movement acceleration has been altered. Am I missing something?

343 has done some good things with bloom and bleedthrough, but we still really need faster strafing.

From that video it looked like movement speed and jump height were increased. I don't think it's that far of a leap to say it's probable that there's less if any movement inertia.

 

[BigShow36]

From that video it looked like movement speed and jump height were increased. I don't think it's that far of a leap to say it's probable that there's less if any movement inertia.

I really hope you're right, and maybe OuterWorld can confirm

 

[ncsuDuncan]

You guys are making this way too complicated.

Halo: Reach Firefight
&#8730; - Nathan Fillion
&#9633; - Brute Chopper

Halo 3: ODST Firefight
&#8730; - Nathan Fillion
&#8730; - Brute Chopper

 

[StalkerUKCG]

From that video it looked like movement speed and jump height were increased. I don't think it's that far of a leap to say it's probable that there's less if any movement inertia.

What is this?

 

[feel]

What is this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia

If you're going in a sideways direction in reach, and pull the walk stick in the opposite direction, you take longer to come to a full rest and move in the new direction than in previous Halos.

 

[Karl2177]

One thing I noticed just by playing both ODST and Reach FF is that the AI in Reach tends to "cheat" to kill you, whereas in ODST they swarmed. When I say cheat, I mean throw grenades faster(Ultra Elites), Faster Fuel Rods(drop pod Grunts), Invisible Sword Elites, and a lot more. I was playing ODST when the final wave in the round occurred. Hammer Chieftains(which were scarier in ODST and even Halo 3), Fuel Rod Chieftains, and a Wraith bombarded my location. In Reach, I had 4 Fuel Rod Elites and only one of them was firing at me. Enemy vehicles are no where to be found.

Also, the maps. Rally Point, Lost Platoon, Alpha Site, Security Zone, and Crater were all great maps. Reach has Beachhead, Courtyard, and Unearthed for okay maps. I'm hoping for a good Firefight map in Anniversary.

 

[LunaticPuma]

Everything previously said about ODST FF > Reach FF is true. Also, ODST FF maps are better.

 

[thezerofire]

What is this?

Basically it means you can't switch directions very quickly. Inertia is the tendency of something moving to keep moving in the same direction. Hence the decreased ability to strafe and avoid bullets, something that was very common in previous games. Movement inertia also makes it more difficult to avoid grenades.

 

[BigShow36]

What is this?

An objects tendency to remain in motion unless acted on by an outside force.


What it means in Halo terms is that it takes longer to change directions, especially at higher velocities. When you increase the base player speed without decreasing the inertia (or increasing player acceleration), it leads to "slippery" movement.

A faster strafe would make it easier to avoid poorly thrown grenades and throw off other player's aim. Basically, it would be amazing.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

What is this?

Inertia is a property of matter.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm just now getting around to reading the weekly update - I was distracted by pretty movies yesterday - and read this:

FLAG Firefight
11:00am-1:00pm
Beat the best score! Compete to earn the highest score in Halo: Reach Firefight.​

What does the FLAG bit stand for?


vvv Thanks.

 

[Hitmonchan107]

Crimson playable at PAX. Yay!

I'm just now getting around to reading the weekly update - I was distracted by pretty movies yesterday - and read this:

FLAG Firefight
11:00am-1:00pm
Beat the best score! Compete to earn the highest score in Halo: Reach Firefight.​

What does the FLAG bit stand for?

Fight Like A Girl. It's a charity, I believe.

Edit: Harebrained Schemes is in desperate need of a community manager.

Actually, I would love to be the CM for Bungie Aerospace.

 

[Shake Appeal]

One way to improve the game and make it challening in an interesting way would be to take the ammo crate out. Aside from the squad mechanics, that's the biggest contributor to the lack of challenge. Players would spread the map, rather than hold up around the crates, and weapon scavenge between waves rather than hold onto the DMR the entire time.

I agree with this. Loved the limited ammo of ODST Firefight; I used to play it solo Heroic seeing how long I could last, and having to move around and take risks was a huge part of the appeal. It's sadly obvious why they have unlimited ammo for matchmaking, though.

Reach Firefight, much as I love it, is a shooting gallery that is focused on scoring. ODST sort of clumsily stumbled into the survivalist territory of something like Left 4 Dead, and that was awesome.

I know it can be set up to behave similarly in custom games, but I have never once done this.

 

[StalkerUKCG]

Inertia is a property of matter.

How does it relate to halo? i must be missing something here.

 

[thezerofire]

How does it relate to halo? i must be missing something here.

You can't switch directions very quickly. In previous halo games, you could switch directions quickly, which led to more agile movement, and people strafing (moving right and left quickly) to avoid the other person's shots. Of switching directions to avoid a thrown grenade. Basically it means that in Reach you are much less agile than in previous halo games.

 

[Tunavi]

I'm complaining about shock threads in OT. might get banned again. probably wont but if I do, have fun at halofest everybody.

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Crimson playable at PAX. Yay!

Awesome!

Crimson passed cert! Congrats to Harebrained Schemes. Next stop, playable Steam Pirate action over, above, and below the waves at PAX!​

Planes, boats, and submarines?

I wonder where they'll be, I didn't see Bungie or Harebrained Schemes on the show floor map.

I keep getting their Crimson confused withCertain Affinity's Crimson Alliance in my head, I guess because they're both related to Bungie in some way.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

One thing I noticed just by playing both ODST and Reach FF is that the AI in Reach tends to "cheat" to kill you, whereas in ODST they swarmed. When I say cheat, I mean throw grenades faster(Ultra Elites), Faster Fuel Rods(drop pod Grunts), Invisible Sword Elites, and a lot more. I was playing ODST when the final wave in the round occurred. Hammer Chieftains(which were scarier in ODST and even Halo 3), Fuel Rod Chieftains, and a Wraith bombarded my location. In Reach, I had 4 Fuel Rod Elites and only one of them was firing at me. Enemy vehicles are no where to be found.

Also, the maps. Rally Point, Lost Platoon, Alpha Site, Security Zone, and Crater were all great maps. Reach has Beachhead, Courtyard, and Unearthed for okay maps. I'm hoping for a good Firefight map in Anniversary.

Yea that's where ODST shined the most I think. The firefight maps really were well thought out and had a variety to their playstyle. In Reach we didn't get that. As I said. The vehicle is useless on them all except the DLC one and even then it's simply somewhat useful. They're so crowded that you really can't move around them in the vehicles easily. IN ODST the vehicular one was really open and allowed you to move and just have a blast in them.

Let's take Beachhead for an example. It could be good but there are giant crates and energy shields everywhere. If those were taken out it would be so much better for vehicles.

 

[neoism]

How funny would it be if in customs in future games you could play a song over the game. My bf was playing turntable at the same time I was playing customs. Some hilarious stuff was playin'.

I listen to music all the time when I play Reach......



I love cranking up this and playing BTB... Makes it more epic

 

[Woorloog]

So, we, me and omg.kittens played a Squad DMR match in Countdown. I scored 32 kills... no idea how... You know flow phenomena? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
I guess that's what happened, i didn't really pay attention to what i was doing etc..
Anyone else ever get such games?

Here's the game in question http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/gamestats.aspx?gameid=761893979&player=Empyrus

 

[HiredN00bs]

This is what I was going to post.

Hirednoobs, you have to take player skill into account. A good player with a DMR will most likely shit on any AR user at any range. Assuming they both engage the 1 V 1 at the same time.

However take 2 mediocre players in this duel and the AR would probably win. And the good player using an AR vs. a mediocre player using DMR doesn't apply because the good player will switch to the pistol every time

Rewarding skill is good. It shouldn't be a rock paper scissors match.

You're missing my point. I brought the AR up as just one example of a weapon that gets short-changed in the type of modification Farooq was advocating (in a nutshell, just remove bloom). Your point about the good player using the DMR is one I agree with, which is why it is an imbalance to make the dominant weapon more powerful. As it stands, in a close-range AR vs. DMR encounter, the DMR user must fire as fast as he/she can, and be as centered as possible (first on the body, then on the head) to account for bloom. Without bloom, this gets a whole lot easier. That's not rewarding skill, that's breaking the sandbox.

 

[The Librarian]

This may seem like a small gripe, but it's actually my biggest gripe with Reach's Firefight:

Ammo Crates. I prefer the Weapon racks in ODST. That's how it became more of a survival mode than shooting gallery. You really had to use ammo sparingly and intelligently in ODST, and I miss it.

That too and the biggest issue is that the AI attacks one squad at time and this cannot be adjusted in any way. Thus the game stays as shooting gallery.

Good points here. But still, Firefight options in Reach do offer a lot ways to tailor it to your liking.

 

[Woorloog]

Good points here. But still, Firefight options in Reach do offer a lot ways to tailor it to your liking.

That is true but the real ODST experience cannot be replicated and thus cannot be enchanced/modified.
ODST Firefight with proper customization would have been ideal.

 

[thezerofire]

You're missing my point. I brought the AR up as just one example of a weapon that gets short-changed in the type of modification Farooq was advocating (in a nutshell, just remove bloom). Your point about the good player using the DMR is one I agree with, which is why it is an imbalance to make the dominant weapon more powerful. As it stands, in a close-range AR vs. DMR encounter, the DMR user must fire as fast as he/she can, and be as centered as possible (first on the body, then on the head) to account for bloom. Without bloom, this gets a whole lot easier. That's not rewarding skill, that's breaking the sandbox.

On the other hand, the reticule is a lot smaller. How consistently can you no-scope with a sniper at close range?

 

[PooBone]

For what it's worth, I also think ODST's firefight was more fun, despite lag. The maps were just so small, aside from Lost Platoon. The swarm vs accuracy argument I can totally agree with.

I also had some good memories on the map inside the ONI building, I think it's called Alpha Site.

 

[BigShow36]

You're missing my point. I brought the AR up as just one example of a weapon that gets short-changed in the type of modification Farooq was advocating (in a nutshell, just remove bloom). Your point about the good player using the DMR is one I agree with, which is why it is an imbalance to make the dominant weapon more powerful. As it stands, in a close-range AR vs. DMR encounter, the DMR user must fire as fast as he/she can, and be as centered as possible (first on the body, then on the head) to account for bloom. Without bloom, this gets a whole lot easier. That's not rewarding skill, that's breaking the sandbox.

At the range the AR is effective, DMR bloom is negated when you take into account bullet magnetism. You can fire as fast as you want and the bloom will have little effect on whether or not you hit. Without bloom, you are either going to hit or miss; its much more clearly defined, which is a good thing.

Regardless, the integrity of utility weapon should not be sacrificed for the integrity of a fringe weapon. Lets be honest; the AR is pretty useless in grand scheme of the "sandbox." A useful utility weapon is far more important to the balance of the game than a spray and pray weapon that can compete with it. Removing bloom and no-bleed through allows the DMR to balance out the power weapons and give individual players more of a role in the game.

 

[Tawpgun]

You're missing my point. I brought the AR up as just one example of a weapon that gets short-changed in the type of modification Farooq was advocating (in a nutshell, just remove bloom). Your point about the good player using the DMR is one I agree with, which is why it is an imbalance to make the dominant weapon more powerful. As it stands, in a close-range AR vs. DMR encounter, the DMR user must fire as fast as he/she can, and be as centered as possible (first on the body, then on the head) to account for bloom. Without bloom, this gets a whole lot easier. That's not rewarding skill, that's breaking the sandbox.

If you want my honest opinion.... Good riddance. AR in all its iterations has never been a fun weapon to fight with or get shot at. At least for me.

As far as the sandbox balance goes, the AR is only good at ranges where bloom is almost negligible. Regardless, well see how it plays out. Besides it seems like the majority of people loving the removal of bloom are the DMR lovers. If it breaks anything you like then just stay in vanilla reach.

 

[The Librarian]

Hm. You know, thinking back, I did have more fun with ODST's Firefight than Reach's. But I do admit that a large share of that comes from the amount of time I spent in ODST's Firefight: more achievements to get.

 

[Ramirez]

You're missing my point. I brought the AR up as just one example of a weapon that gets short-changed in the type of modification Farooq was advocating (in a nutshell, just remove bloom). Your point about the good player using the DMR is one I agree with, which is why it is an imbalance to make the dominant weapon more powerful. As it stands, in a close-range AR vs. DMR encounter, the DMR user must fire as fast as he/she can, and be as centered as possible (first on the body, then on the head) to account for bloom. Without bloom, this gets a whole lot easier. That's not rewarding skill, that's breaking the sandbox.

You have to remember with bleed through, the AR becomes a lot more powerful again.

Me personally, I don't care. I never want anything aside from a DMR/Pistol/Power Weapon to begin with. Whether that makes the Plasma Repeater more useless than it already is, is a non issue for me.

I'm just going to enjoy having a gun that can overcome anything, just like the BR/Pistol. Let's face it, if you run into a rocket guy, and you have a DMR, 9/10 times you're boned, same with the sword, shotgun, etc. It'll be nice to actually have a chance to fight back and succeed more with bloom gone.

On the other hand though, removing AA's reduces the OP-ness of those weapons anyways. The Sword/Shotgun would not be as dominate as they are without sprint/evade, it'll be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

edit:

Really the only weapons I see being effected by this new DMR are the plasma repeater, plasma rifle, & spiker (lol). Even then, I think these fall in line with the AR, if you get the drop on someone, you still have a viable way of killing them with these weapons due to melee bleed through.

Sword, Hammer, Shotgun, Sniper, Rockets, Conc Rifle, Focus Rifle, PP, GL, etc. are all really unaffected by the removal of bloom on the DMR. It's just going to make them harder to be successful with, instead of usually an automatic kill when you run up on someone using a non power weapon.

Think you're really blowing this complaint out of proportion.