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Halo: Reach |OT7| What are They to Say Now?

daedalius

Member
Tashi, you need to stream more and tell these mlg people to watch you.

They want moar streaming games, I can't believe I've watched this whole thing.

Also post on twitter more, especially when you start streaming.
 

Tunavi

Banned
I'd love to. And Timedog, I think I speak for everyone here. Bloom - It's perfect, nothings wrong with it. Everyone loves it

geNqD.gif
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Tashi, you need to stream more and tell these mlg people to watch you.

They want moar streaming games, I can't believe I've watched this whole thing.

Also post on twitter more, especially when you start streaming.

I'm streaming right now. I have the auto twitter update on when the stream goes up. I've been doing my part lol. I've been streaming for years. I've helped lots of people with their streams. I've had Halo videos on my youtube for years now lol.
 

daedalius

Member
I'm streaming right now. I have the auto twitter update on when the stream goes up. I've been doing my part lol. I've been streaming for years. I've helped lots of people with their streams. I've had Halo videos on my youtube for years now lol.

I know, I watch your streams quite a bit, you obviously just need a lot more viewers ;)
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Awesomeeee games tonight, folks. My personal highlights include:

- Watching FireWulff dodge, EMP, and destroy two Ghosts and a Banshee in quick succession.
- Two last minute game winning captures. Heckfu jumping out of the Hog -- flag in hand -- as FyreWulff launches it over a hill.
- Barlow backing into Slightly Live with his Hog and then the both of them getting blown to bits by a grenade.

The CEA lists definitely make Reach fun again. Lots of glaring faults, but so many awesome moments, too.

Edit: Also, does Xand read GAF? If so, I propose we talk shit about him and laugh at his inability to respond.
 
I dunno, I'm kinda happy about the new changes. Squad Slayer was my go to playlist once I heard Armor Lock wasn't in it, and 85% bloom with higher DLC weighting (we'll see about that) sounds good to me. Bullet damage bleedthrough being kept is a bummer since I really enjoy Reach's feedback and shield pop stuff but melee damage bleedthrough is way more important to me so I will adapt.
 
I dunno, I'm kinda happy about the new changes. Squad Slayer was my go to playlist once I heard Armor Lock wasn't in it, and 85% bloom with higher DLC weighting (we'll see about that) sounds good to me. Bullet damage bleedthrough being kept is a bummer since I really enjoy Reach's feedback and shield pop stuff but melee damage bleedthrough is way more important to me so I will adapt.
We'll all adapt. I mean, if they removed the HUD, we'd adapt to that too, right? Doesn't mean the game is better for it.

I feel like it may seem like I'm overreacting to this news, but that's only because I am strongly disappointed and genuinely upset. I love playing Squad Slayer and Team Objective and Premium Battle just the way they are. I've played the TU gametype. I don't prefer it. It was fine when it was in its own playlist, (I was annoyed it was included in the Anniversary lists) but now the playlists I enjoy the most are being tainted. Not cool.

Another point, Squad Slayer and Team Objective didn't even have Armor Lock, and I prefer no Armor Lock to Armor Lock pre- or post-TU, period. Are they going to re-include it now?
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Another interesting thing they brought up in Gandhi's show is that it would be best if they could just have tournaments based on the settings that ship straight out of the box. It would be easier for casuals to be interested in the tournament, because everything won't be foreign to them. Currently, everything is foreign to them. The maps, the lack of armor abilities, the way armor abilities are used as pick ups, the weapons, etc... That's not MLG's fault, it was more so Bungie's fault because the settings weren't competitively viable. It's different in other games. I think that's why they want to work with 343 to make the best game possible that caters to both the casual and competitive player. It wasn't until Halo 3 that mlg settings and default settings started to differ radically from each other.

What if MLG works with 343 to create the MLG rule sets and have the MLG playlist launch with Halo 4?
 
We'll all adapt. I mean, if they removed the HUD, we'd adapt to that too, right? Doesn't mean the game is better for it.

I feel like it may seem like I'm overreacting to this news, but that's only because I am strongly disappointed and genuinely upset. I love playing Squad Slayer and Team Objective and Premium Battle just the way they are. I've played the TU gametype. I don't prefer it. It was fine when it was in its own playlist, but now the playlists I enjoy the most are being tainted. Not cool.
I was going to say that you were being a bit melodramatic but you edited your post and added the last bit. At least you admit it.

If they removed the HUD I'd probably stop playing because that's just silly. My distaste for the vanilla Reach melee system is far greater than my enjoyment of the shield feedback when reacting to bullets. It would seem I can't have the good with the good so I'll take my preferred good (bleedthrough melee) with the not so bad (shield feedback system bypassed).
 

Trasher

Member
Another interesting thing they brought up in Gandhi's show is that it would be best if they could just have tournaments based on the settings that ship straight out of the box. It would be easier for casuals to be interested in the tournament, because everything won't be foreign to them. Currently, everything is foreign to them. The maps, the lack of armor abilities, the way armor abilities are used as pick ups, the weapons, etc... That's not MLG's fault, it was more so Bungie's fault because the settings weren't competitively viable. It's different in other games. I think that's why they want to work with 343 to make the best game possible that caters to both the casual and competitive player. It wasn't until Halo 3 that mlg settings and default settings started to differ radically from each other.

The MLG settings still differed a significant bit in Halo 2 though too if I recall correctly. I definitely don't remember any dual-wielding in the MLG settings lol. Eventually the "Rifles" playlists were rolled out, but they were still a bit different as well if I'm not mistaken. It was such a long time ago so correct me if I'm wrong.
 
What if MLG works with 343 to create the MLG rule sets and have the MLG playlist launch with Halo 4?

Halo 4 needs to feel like a competitive, skill-gappy game from day 1. That will build buzz amongst pro-types which will increase sales amongst competitive players which will grow the player base for mlg and all that should snowball into an influx of new wannabe-pros even without an MLG playlist on day 1.

Reach fell all over itself to be accessible to casual players (cR system/"ranks", infinite use AAs instead of equipment, slower movement, gimping of pistol from Beta to make AR vs. Pistol fights more favorable to people who can't aim, etc.).

It would be a mistake for Halo 4 to overcompensate BUT if the core gameplay is too competitive for a casual that is something that could be addressed at the playlist level rather than at the core gameplay level.


Higher players would match higher ranked players. That way bad kids would play similar skilled players and win now and then and so on...it would be accessible to everyone. Perhaps it could be some number system like 1-50 based on wins and losses.
Its just crazy enough to work!

If only there was some precedent for a system like this that we, as a community, could refer to.

Why not have a playlist that disappears once your highest rank in any playlist goes over 5? Or 10? Give the casuals a kiddy pool.
 
Yes on top of what Roche said if there was some sort of system where lowerl level ranked players could be matched against similar lower leveled players. Higher players would match higher ranked players. That way bad kids would play similar skilled players and win now and then and so on...it would be accessible to everyone. Perhaps it could be some number system like 1-50 based on wins and losses.

Its just crazy enough to work!
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
It really depends on what stuff comes in Halo 4, v1 went through many many variations in Reach along with it in Halo 3. I guess it would be cool but it may turn off new comers to it because of the constant variations. I rather have a set playlist a month later. That's just me though.

Also did 343 delete my thread asking about a ranking system? Had it bookmarked and now it's getting a error message.

I think it's possible. Everyone can play the Halo 4 beta and get a really good idea of what the game is. Fuckin make some Pro players who could be voted upon and killa kc and whoever comes up with the maps, make them sign an NDA, let them participate in the at home play tests, Epsilon and all that shit. The game will come out around the fall, the 2013 season will start around April. There's plenty of time. Another thing is that the turnaround time for gametypes to be put in to matchmaking needs to be quicker. It can't be at a specific date every month. Shit needs to happen within a few days MAX. I'm talking, MLG makes an article releasing MLG v5, and they're in matchmaking that same day. There's NOTHING worse than wanting to play MLG but you don't want to go in the playlist because of the old gametypes. I don't want to play that. Or the community discovers a way to break a map and people are essentially cheating on that map. They're voting on it just to gain ranks. That shit needs to be replaced immediately.

I just played tonight and what happened? I spent a few hours playing and got like 3 or 4 no bloom no sprint matches played. That shit shouldn't happen.
 
The MLG settings still differed a significant bit in Halo 2 though too if I recall correctly. I definitely don't remember any dual-wielding in the MLG settings lol. Eventually the "Rifles" playlists were rolled out, but they were still a bit different as well if I'm not mistaken. It was such a long time ago so correct me if I'm wrong.

Definitely different, but not as different compared to 3 and Reach. Of course Forge allows us to change the settings which is great, but there wasn't much that we would have done to those settings had there been Forge in CE and 2.

The forge maps suck for the spectator as well. I'm hoping the CEA maps work great after a few tweaks to spawns and what not.
 

CyReN

Member
I think it's possible. Everyone can play the Halo 4 beta and get a really good idea of what the game is. Fuckin make some Pro players who could be voted upon and killa kc and whoever comes up with the maps, make them sign an NDA, let them participate in the at home play tests, Epsilon and all that shit. The game will come out around the fall, the 2013 season will start around April. There's plenty of time. Another thing is that the turnaround time for gametypes to be put in to matchmaking needs to be quicker. It can't be at a specific date every month. Shit needs to happen within a few days MAX. I'm talking, MLG makes an article releasing MLG v5, and they're in matchmaking that same day. There's NOTHING worse than wanting to play MLG but you don't want to go in the playlist because of the old gametypes. I don't want to play that. Or the community discovers a way to break a map and people are essentially cheating on that map. They're voting on it just to gain ranks. That shit needs to be replaced immediately.

I just played tonight and what happened? I spent a few hours playing and got like 3 or 4 no bloom no sprint matches played. That shit shouldn't happen.

This is more on 343 than it is MLG. Bungie did a decent job catering to our needs, I just hope 343 can be a little more open and frequent with issues. They've done a stellar job so far so I can't wait to see what they do in H4. I'd love a playlist day 1, along with any tweaks to be addressed right away.

In the past MLG Pros have talked to Bungie about their games but I not sure if they changed anything, only those who went would. I believe they where Walshy in Neighbor also.

Also Flamesword made a thread on 343 forums about a ranking system. Check it out.
 
Definitely different, but not as different compared to 3 and Reach. Of course Forge allows us to change the settings which is great, but there wasn't much that we would have done to those settings had there been Forge in CE and 2.

I would argue that the changes in 3 weren't really all that major compared to what's going on in Reach. MLG in Reach involves changes to the foundation of Reach as a game. In Halo 3 you had damage/health/shield/speed tweaks. In Reach MLG there is only one loadout and AAs are pickups. There is no other playlist where that is the case. That's a pretty drastic change. And now they're considering deleting a core mechanic involving how you aim/shoot.

Reach is such an outlier when it comes to Halo MP experiences.
 
I like what Flamesword said.

It took me way longer than I thought it should have to get my 50, but it had me playing and playing til I hit it. I wasn't always that good at Halo, in fact I probably started as a much worse player than a lot of you. I did what he said, I asked better players for help on forums and I watched MLG VoD, these days I just watch pros on JTV when I'm not feeling playing Halo.

The trials of going from noob to god is something that should be experienced and remembered by everyone.
 
This whole ranking system things really makes me wish Arena wasn't such a fucking fail.

It works ok when they manage it and add new grandmaster leagues and update the ladder to positions and not percentages that mean absolutely nothing since you can't see how many players got ranked in the first place. Other games do it pretty well.

They just made it too pussyized. No offense.
 
This whole ranking system things really makes me wish Arena wasn't such a fucking fail.

Think of how much development time was invested in Invasion, Arena, and balancing Bloom and AAs.

What would Reach be if that time had gone into something else?

Talking about non-Anniversary Reach makes me sad.
 
Halo Reach has fallen to 7th on the Activity list.

343/Frankie add ranks for the love of god, there's even debate if Halo is going to be on the MLG Circuit next year. Such a sad time:(
Hey! I remember when I said that Halo: Reach would surpass Gears Of War 3 in two months. People laughed at me and said that wouldn't happen 'cause Gears Of War 3 has a much better MP experience. lol.

Halo: Reach will be in the Top 5 next year again. People will be finished Skyrim, people are bored of BF3 and continue playing CoD.

Yup. Fantastic trailer, Reach's best.

Dat music.
Noble Map Pack and this trailer were the best Reach trailer. I was pretty disappointed with the Reach E3 campaign trailer...

http://i.imgur.com/BFfrml.jpg[IMG]

The shirt actually has Per Audacia Ad Astra on in inseam at the bottom.
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/2gwLvl.jpg[IMG]

And one of tired me with a stupid smirk on my face.
[URL]http://i.imgur.com/YAftml.jpg[URL][/QUOTE]
All I can say is I want some stuff of the new collection. but hey bungie doesn't ship to Europe... Or do they?

[quote="Nutter, post: 33092014"]You cant be serious? Are you?

We have had 7.. Yes 7 Call of Duty games in the last 6 Years on the 360 alone. People are not getting tired of the same bullshit in that, so where is this Halo is becoming to stale coming from? Have you people ever thought it was because with each game they are CHANGING too much shit that people loved? versus the other franchise (COD) which is trying to keep the same basics since COD4? Im sure we will all keep playing Halo games years from now, but when the game changes so much so that the fans become increasingly frustrated with it, yes they will not retain that fanbase, aka Halo up till now.

In the case of Halo 4, I sincerely hope 343 can please both ends of the spectrum of hardcore and casual, hell keep the casual stuff but for the love of god put all that in 1 single play list i.e why were we being forced to play with AA's in all playlists prior to the TU. And most importantly bring the competitive nature of Halo back, I do not know what that means for the rest of you, but to me a mix of H3 and H2 in both gameplay and feature set including ranks would be exactly that.

So far with the TU 343 is trying to please the Vanilla Reach fanbase and the old school folks, but to be honest the majority of the hardcore fans have moved on to other things because the game IS that frustrating even with 343 trying to fix things.. there is a reason most of the playlists seem like its full of nothing but a bunch of newcomers/people who dont know how to play. And if this is what bungie was trying to appease to, well they got it and the numbers show for themselves.[/QUOTE]
Kind of agree with this, but I disagree with it too.

[quote="omg.kittens, post: 33094002"]Awesomeeee games tonight, folks. My personal highlights include:

- Watching FireWulff dodge, EMP, and destroy two Ghosts and a Banshee in quick succession.
- Two last minute game winning captures. Heckfu jumping out of the Hog -- flag in hand -- as FyreWulff launches it over a hill.
- Barlow backing into Slightly Live with his Hog and then the both of them getting blown to bits by a grenade.

The CEA lists definitely make Reach fun again. Lots of glaring faults, but so many awesome moments, too.

Edit: Also, does Xand read GAF? If so, I propose we talk shit about him and laugh at his inability to respond.[/QUOTE]
No, I won't talk shit about him, when he is perfect.
 
It works ok when they manage it and add new grandmaster leagues and update the ladder to positions and not percentages that mean absolutely nothing since you can't see how many players got ranked in the first place. Other games do it pretty well.

They just made it too pussyized. No offense.
So you want it to be more like Starcraft II? Would buy.

Sorry would require programmers who know how to program.
It's more about Marty considering himself an unimpeachable auteur.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Yeah, adding a playlist that appeals to hardcore people is sure to increase the population.. do people remember the definition of the word 'hardcore'? It means 'outside of the mainstream'.

Arena is there, it lets you climb ranks, changing how the number is calculated isn't going to pull people off CoD (which 100% social) or Gears (100% Social again). It seems people don't want ranked because it already exists, they just have nostalgia for the 1-50 instead of 700-1600.

It was very apparent with the implementation of bleedthrough and 75/NB DMRs in Team Objective in the next update, 343 thinks these settings are to appeal to the hardcore base. But appealing to the hardcore base with 1-50 just pleases some of the people that already play the game. If they want 1-50 they can wait until Halo 4 to implement it, just like they should have waited for Halo 4 to bring the H1 Pistol back, put bleedthrough back, and rework bloom.


Instead we end up with half baked, wish washy playlist management where they try to please everyone and neither segment is pleased with the results (except for the Infection players, I guess) and are blatantly using Reach as a Halo 4 testbed. Talk about having knobs and levels to mess with from the new 1.1 Megalo hooks and we just get the same old 85% bloom / bleed through shit 3 months after the TU. We haven't gotten any other % of blooms, we haven't gotten a chance to try 85% bloom without bleedthrough, so what the hell kind of feedback are they getting if players don't have a choice?

343 should have implemented a TU system wide from the get go or not have done it at all. Limp wristed bullshit like we've seen from them so far has resulted in fracturing of the community Reach had, player confusion from where there was none before, and changes that seem to be more in tune with MS's bottom line than what would help the playerbase (ie, locking achievements to their map packs where we could get them on any map before that, not including a second Reach: Mythic disc with Anniversary)

I hope for Halo 4 they actually act like they stand behind any of their decisions instead of immediately diving for the 'out of scope', 'lack of time', 'not enough manpower' excuses that they constantly throw out, but instantly praise themselves for anything that goes well. 343 needs to start owning their shit (both the good and the bad) and being assertive with their control of a game. Implement the TU settings game wide and take the fact that you're going to lose people that don't want to play the game any more after you do it, just like Bungie did when they implemented Halo 2 1.1 and Halo 3 1.1. Stop going for the cool uncle schtick.

But doing shit like throwing the LAN community under a bus just so you can mangle the Reach magnum into the Halo 1 Pistol and then completely failing to actually include the gametype that includes said pistol on the Halo 1 Anniversary disc, I don't know why I should feel they have any sort of cohesive structure to any decision they make. I don't agree with half the shit Bungie did over the years but at least they made their decisions and the why of doing them known, and stuck behind them and ate the dog food and did it better next time.

Why is the TU Beta playlist even still around? We're less than a year out from Halo 4 and 1.1 has been around for 3 months now. Shit or get off the can. At least use it to give us OPTIONS to try, like 85% No Bleed Through, ZB No Bleed Through, ZB Locked Firing Rate DMR, 85% DMR with 100% NR, 50% DMR, 75% DMR, 50% pistol, 150% DMR, you know, what an actual beta playlist should be. Heck, throw in fun gametypes like a 1 shot Pistol with everything else normal so we can play Man With the Golden Gun gametypes.

If anyone needs to work on the weekly I'll be on Grifball in a few minutes.
 
This isn't the first time I've seen this thrown around. Is there a source on this alleged behaviour?
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/digital/gaming/how-halo-reach-perfected-video-game-audio

Here's how important the music is: In all of the Halo games to date, Bungie has left out the option to turn the music off. That's almost unheard of for video games, and for Xbox and Xbox 360 games, giving players control of the music, as well as the relative volume of dialogue and sound effects, is a technical accreditation requirement. Microsoft will waive the requirement, but only with good reason, and not very often.

O'Donnell hopes that the fact that most Halo players probably don't know that the music is immutable means that he's doing his job. "I always felt that I'll do my best shot at mixing this so you don't have to think about it. If you happen to be in the habit of always turning off music, that's fine, but giving you that control is like preparing a gourmet meal and putting salt, pepper and ketchup on the table," O'Donnell says.
 
Huh. Well that's too bad. My main beef is with the audio levels in Anniversary though, which Marty had nothing to do with of course. The dialog audio is just way too low. But still, too bad. I still have much love for the man and the music he makes.

And I don't usually agree with FyreWulff but he's spitting some mad truth in that post. I especially agree with this part.
Implement the TU settings game wide and take the fact that you're going to lose people that don't want to play the game any more after you do it, just like Bungie did when they implemented Halo 2 1.1 and Halo 3 1.1. Stop going for the cool uncle schtick.
 

KevinRo

Member

That's dumb as fuck. Everyone has their own preferences to what they want to hear, what type of music settings they'd like to output and whatnot. Put it in his terms: every person has different taste buds and appreciates a different level of salt and pepper that appeal to their tastes. If they don't want to add or edit anything they don't have to, but give users/customers the option. ALWAYS give them the option.
 

Magni

Member
I'm watching the Behind the Crosshairs debate, and this is depressing. I've been following and playing MLG Halo since 2005, and seeing the interest just die this season has been heartbreaking for someone who loves the competitive game. The interest hasn't just died for the MLG community actually, it's died across the board. I love Bungie and the games they make, but Reach was a shot in pond.

I'm very anxious to see the first MP footage of Halo 4, hopefully 343i saves us all.


Marty hates user-controlled audio. Interesting to note that CEA is the first Halo game in the main series that doesn't give you the middle finger when you try and use custom soundtracks, and that's because he wasn't involved with it.

I mentioned in the past how idiotic this notion he has the definitive word on the 'perfect' audio experience despite every single user being in a different environment with different acoustics, different psychoacoustics and hearing sensitivity, different sound systems with different power ratings... in short possessing arrogance and misconceptions that someone with the slightest knowledge of audio engineering knows to be wrong.

He's a great composer, but he knows fuck all about my subjective listening experience, and that's why volume sliders are industry standard.


He's a great composer as you've said, I love the music he's made for the series and have bought every soundtrack, but his attitude on this matter is very upsetting.
 
Can we please get individual Dialog/SFX/Music volume sliders in Halo 4? Baffles me that this has been absent in every Halo game.

Marty hates user-controlled audio. Interesting to note that CEA is the first Halo game in the main series that doesn't give you the middle finger when you try and use custom soundtracks, and that's because he wasn't involved with it.

I mentioned in the past how idiotic this notion he has the definitive word on the 'perfect' audio experience despite every single user being in a different environment with different acoustics, different psychoacoustics and hearing sensitivity, different sound systems with different power ratings... in short possessing arrogance and misconceptions that someone with the slightest knowledge of audio engineering knows to be wrong.

He's a great composer, but he knows fuck all about my subjective listening experience, and that's why volume sliders are industry standard.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Fyrewulff said:
Instead we end up with half baked, wish washy playlist management where they try to please everyone and neither segment is pleased with the results (except for the Infection players, I guess) and are blatantly using Reach as a Halo 4 testbed.

Alternately, they are simply doing their best to respond to community feedback. I'm a cynical bastard, but I really think that's what they are doing. The month after CEA hit (a few weeks, really), they're already rolling changes into other playlists. Could they be more aggressive? Sure.

I also think the direction the changes lean will point to where Halo 4 is going. Which is a pretty good thing. This is distinct from using Reach as a Halo 4 test bed, which is a pretty silly comment. The Halo 4 test bed is their Halo 4 testing; they don't have nearly the options to tinker with Reach like that. Maybe, just maybe, they're just doing their best to respond to to their community and to try and do right by them.

(You know how successful I think they're being. But that doesn't mean I don't notice 343 is at least trying. Look at the cards they've been dealt.)
 
Best playlist update so far.

Premium Battle removal was something we all knew was going to happen.

I still haven't played a game on Breakpoint in the Invasion playlist :(
 

KevinRo

Member
Alternately, they are simply doing their best to respond to community feedback. I'm a cynical bastard, but I really think that's what they are doing. The month after CEA hit (a few weeks, really), they're already rolling changes into other playlists. Could they be more aggressive? Sure.

I also think the direction the changes lean will point to where Halo 4 is going. Which is a pretty good thing. This is distinct from using Reach as a Halo 4 test bed, which is a pretty silly comment. The Halo 4 test bed is their Halo 4 testing; they don't have nearly the options to tinker with Reach like that. Maybe, just maybe, they're just doing their best to respond to to their community and to try and do right by them.

(You know how successful I think they're being. But that doesn't mean I don't notice 343 is at least trying. Look at the cards they've been dealt.)

I've always felt the notion of playlists for Matchmaking to be an awesome way of matching new people to the game, but it's an archaic way to think that's the ONLY way to match people up for online games. Sure it was an awesome idea when the original Xbox came out. It gave the live community, while it was in its infant stages of player adoption, a way to connect. But right now we're reaching a point where playlists can't cater to everyones wants.

This leads back to a fundamental question: Where is the custom lobby search portals? Where is the custom lobby listing?

If they really want the multiplayer experience to be expansive and to have a large continually supported userbase they need to make changes.
 
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