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Halo: Reach |OT7| What are They to Say Now?
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
Shake Appeal
Member
I think it is a better multiplayer game than H1 and H2 objectively, but I've enjoyed it less in its time and context, and enjoyed those games more in their time and context. Also, given the expectations and game design evolved through the first three titles, Reach is a weird little mongrel thing for Bungie to have made. I think there are at least two great game templates in there fighting to get out, one of them much more like CoD, one of them much more like Shadowrun. But it lives in an awkward space that throws up inconsistencies and irritations as often as it does good, clean fun.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
man, when randoms go 0-12 on TS, I just have to laugh a little bit
Hypertrooper
Member
Drunk hypah time today. Not at VGA but today. Just saying. Drinking a lot already.
Gabotron ES
Member
I enjoy it more than 3, I also spend pretty much the whole time on the Invasion and BTB playlist where al, jetpack and bloom are not such a deal.
KidA Seven
Member
I can't stand longer kill times. Just make the gun more difficult to shoot with that way only a great player can kill fast. Longer kill times slow the game down and requires you to think less because everything is now slower. You don't get punished for your mistakes and your given more thinking time. The game should reward the players who move around the map intelligently and can think fast.
The game should be designed for competitive play. The players who lack skill won't be getting donged on all the time if true skill were to work anyways. They'll be getting matched up with players around their skill level so they won't be alienated with settings that are too competitive. In Starcraft and Street Fighter, the settings are competitive right from the start. Players who lack skill aren't playing your Justin Wongs, Daigos, and Boxers. They play players their skill level and that is why they don't get frustrated playing the game. As long as the matchmaking system works, the most competitive settings shouldn't frustrate lower skilled players.
The game should be designed for competitive play. The players who lack skill won't be getting donged on all the time if true skill were to work anyways. They'll be getting matched up with players around their skill level so they won't be alienated with settings that are too competitive. In Starcraft and Street Fighter, the settings are competitive right from the start. Players who lack skill aren't playing your Justin Wongs, Daigos, and Boxers. They play players their skill level and that is why they don't get frustrated playing the game. As long as the matchmaking system works, the most competitive settings shouldn't frustrate lower skilled players.
You ever watch CS tournaments? They have a sweet map view camera showing where everyone is, what weapon they are holding, and their health.
Steelyuhas
Member
For me the multiplayer is:
H1>H2>HR>H3
The gap between Halo 2 and Reach/H3 is just monumental though.
H1>H2>HR>H3
The gap between Halo 2 and Reach/H3 is just monumental though.
Wow really? Lol I guess my ideas are old hahaha
Shake Appeal
Member
One last thing I'll say while musing about Reach's multiplayer design:
Bungie made Reach deceptively complex. That is, it's actually quite hard for newcomers or non-obsessives to get to grips with it, especially if they are expecting it to play like any other Halo game. The movement speed, the loadouts, the bloom and weapon cadence, the sheer variety of the experience (and the overabundance of playlists and gametypes, which has got worse and worse over its life), the return of health packs, longer shield recharges, not to mention additional, overlaid systems like Invasion, etc. ... these are all barriers to entry for players who are unfamiliar with them. Yet beneath those surface changes, the game is actually very simple, and Bungie went so far as to smooth out some of the expert-player depth that existed in earlier titles (e.g., by removing flag juggling, making weapon timers less standard and predictable, and reducing the need to control maps and spawns to get power-ups). Anecdotally, I know part-time Halo players who gave up on Reach quickly because it had a frustrating skill curve frontloaded, and long-term Halo players who gave up on Reach later on because the curve smoothed out too much once you understood the new systems.
This is the exact wrong way around.
Take Starcraft, which is as good an example as you'll find of a game that is deceptively simple; anyone can bash out a 1v1 game of Starcraft after playing the singleplayer campaign -- without ever noticing or understanding the chasm of depth that lurks beneath. TF2 is the same (the Soldier is probably the easiest class to pick up and play, yet an expert Soldier is worlds away in skill because they understand rocket jumping, etc.). Competitive multiplayer games should be comprehensible, accessible, even 'basic' at the surface level, with a steadily rising curve that rewards those who pour time and energy into understanding and mastering the more complex underlying gameplay.
Yet Reach does the reverse: a lot to process on arrival, with diminishing returns for those who devote themselves to it.
IMO, anyway.
Bungie made Reach deceptively complex. That is, it's actually quite hard for newcomers or non-obsessives to get to grips with it, especially if they are expecting it to play like any other Halo game. The movement speed, the loadouts, the bloom and weapon cadence, the sheer variety of the experience (and the overabundance of playlists and gametypes, which has got worse and worse over its life), the return of health packs, longer shield recharges, not to mention additional, overlaid systems like Invasion, etc. ... these are all barriers to entry for players who are unfamiliar with them. Yet beneath those surface changes, the game is actually very simple, and Bungie went so far as to smooth out some of the expert-player depth that existed in earlier titles (e.g., by removing flag juggling, making weapon timers less standard and predictable, and reducing the need to control maps and spawns to get power-ups). Anecdotally, I know part-time Halo players who gave up on Reach quickly because it had a frustrating skill curve frontloaded, and long-term Halo players who gave up on Reach later on because the curve smoothed out too much once you understood the new systems.
This is the exact wrong way around.
Take Starcraft, which is as good an example as you'll find of a game that is deceptively simple; anyone can bash out a 1v1 game of Starcraft after playing the singleplayer campaign -- without ever noticing or understanding the chasm of depth that lurks beneath. TF2 is the same (the Soldier is probably the easiest class to pick up and play, yet an expert Soldier is worlds away in skill because they understand rocket jumping, etc.). Competitive multiplayer games should be comprehensible, accessible, even 'basic' at the surface level, with a steadily rising curve that rewards those who pour time and energy into understanding and mastering the more complex underlying gameplay.
Yet Reach does the reverse: a lot to process on arrival, with diminishing returns for those who devote themselves to it.
IMO, anyway.
Thagomizer
Member
ncsuDuncan
Member
Heh, my stupid brain:
"Hmm, today is Friday.
What happens online every Friday?
New xkcd comic (check)
New Penny-Arcade (check)
New Ctrl+Alt+Del (check)
Oh yeah, new BWU!
...
Aww, nevermind."
Old habits die hard.
"Hmm, today is Friday.
What happens online every Friday?
New xkcd comic (check)
New Penny-Arcade (check)
New Ctrl+Alt+Del (check)
Oh yeah, new BWU!
...
Aww, nevermind."
Old habits die hard.
thezerofire
Banned
you forgot Questionable Content and Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal
though for QC you're going to have go to back and read all of it to understand what's going on.
Now do fall damage and somehow tie it into a Cortana romance scene.
The Real Napsta
Member
H2 LAN time is wasted HCE LAN time bro.
ncsuDuncan
Member
I read QC for a couple years and then got bored with it.
SMBC I still check the RSS feed every now and then, but it's not exactly a habit for me.
I used to read a lot more webcomics, but I tried reducing my time wasted on the internet one year and deleted a bunch of my RSS subscriptions. Now I just waste time on GAF, I don't even read Joystiq or Kotaku much any more. HBO is the only one gaming news I consistently check.
Deputy Moonman
Member
This is exactly how I would rank them and exactly what i would say regarding the gap between 2 and Reach/H3.
Man I thought about this earlier today... DeeJ has been pretty active lately.. Im hoping he gets some content to talk about soon.
I am missing me some Friday BWU's.
KidA Seven
Member
ncsuDuncan
Member
Yeah, DeeJ has certainly been making a good splash in the b.net forums. I wouldn't get my hopes up for the return of the BWU just yet though.
Be brave, don't be afraid of the dark, etc.
Hydranockz
Member
Funny story, once I started my job in software testingI didn't have too much to do. I totally did what I was told.... but in my free time I read 1,000 SMBC comics in the first 2 weks. I was told my internet usage was being monitored and I quickly stopped reading one-panel comics that would clo up my history
StalkerUKCG
Banned
anyone up for some reach? Ill play anything
Nope, but If I did it probably wouldn't have made a difference.
Hes only temporary, so I wouldn't expect it. He was probably hired to entertain the community and keep us updated on Bungie Aerospace games.
thezerofire
Banned
I ran MLG Customs in Halo 3 all pretty much all the time, so that's my experience for that game. Probably the most fun I've ever had online, I came in after the Halo 2 heyday
Rickenslacker
Banned
You guys probably should just go back to Halo 3 because I'd like the DLC lists to actually get some use. When Reach does so much wrong I don't think those two factors make up for it at all.
Gabotron ES
Member
Can we get a party of 12 to test some Invasion maps or whatever?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I put MUCH more time into Halo 2, but I think Halo 3 might've been better.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Get on we will just invite everyone
ViewtifulJC
Banned
invite meeeeee
Gabotron ES
Member
StalkerUKCG
Banned
I know that feel bro
Hydranockz
Member
Canonically right?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Not even canonically
Shake Appeal
Member
My first multiplayer game was Doom via IPX. Come at me, bro.
nvm. You guys are playing Annversary BTB.
Edit: 15k Jackpot in the Anniversary BTB playlist this weekend. Awe ya!
xxjuicesxx
Member
Pshhh Doom sucks, Pong was better.
Hydranockz
Member
I think Reach and 3 are two different beasts but both have some great pros and cons. I'd otherwise agree yeah.
Halo 2 was king (when they fixed it). Hitscan, best maps, vehicle boarding, Objective was actually something people played. Flag contesting was great. Meanwhile in Reach I'm carrying flag 3 metres from score point and round ends, brilliant.
Why is Headlong so Slayer orrientated in the CEA playlist, the map excels at Objective and it rarely comes up for me, where is my 1-Flag dammit
Why is Headlong so Slayer orrientated in the CEA playlist, the map excels at Objective and it rarely comes up for me, where is my 1-Flag dammit
ViewtifulJC
Banned
what, dont you LOVE Big Team Slayer