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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed

MagniHarvald said:
No 360 for one more week (left my account at my parents' ..) so I've been nolifing Pokémon and H2V. Legendary was so broken in that game :lol Uprising pissed me off so much I called it a day and went online a bit.. +50 in an FFA on Gemini, and then a 26 kill streak in TSnipers on Coag :lol Good thing H2V will still be there after April 15th :D

I'm surprised you found a game that wasn't on Coag tbh. I did find an MLG FFA game on Midship once, though. That was good times :D
 

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
Geez it is only Saturday and I already want new information. :lol

Can't wait till we get some new stuff middle of next week and then have Urk clear it up for us on Friday. :D

I am thinking we might get more info on saved films, being as they have already told us about being able to file browse. All that is left is for them to show it to us.
 

Louis Wu

Member
Shake Appeal said:
The problem is it's currently a word document. If I wanted to put it up somewhere I would have to go and edit in like a bazillion html tags for italics and whatnot. Also, I want to proofread it.

But since I haven't actually bothered to set up my blog yet, Wu kindly said he'd host it when I'm done. It could also go on FUD (interesting acronym) if Dani likes it. I wouldn't mind.
Send me the word doc. I'll HTML-ize it for you.
 

Trasher

Member
@ Bladed: Was thinking about this earlier. What did you end up deciding on to use for the montage music?


Btw, got my Astro A30s (with the Mixamp of course) in the mail yesterday. They are pretty awesome. :)
 

LukeSmith

Member
bobs99 ... said:
Your right, the Trueskill system is a little 'weak' and the way matchmaking handles ranking is a little silly, I just meant that anyone can get good gameplay wise. Trueskill is a little harder to manipulate but its satisfying seeing yourself improve as a player, and slowly Trueskill does reflect this.

Except it really doesn't.
Trueskill in Halo 3 is at its best and most accurate in Free For All, otherwise there are all kinds of other variables (like your teammates) that are contributing to your Rank going up or down. That it positively reinforced your beliefs that you were improving is by design - because we decelerated Trueskill in H3 to artificially introduce a progression. It's not you manipulating Trueskill, it's really the other way around.

Additionally, (in H3) there's all kinds of other factors that result in people getting carried to particular ranks by players. Winning as a Team in the Arena will be important, but we're not submitting your team results to Trueskill, we're submitting yours.
 
Trasher said:
@ Bladed: Was thinking about this earlier. What did you end up deciding on to use for the montage music?


Btw, got my Astro A30s (with the Mixamp of course) in the mail yesterday. They are pretty awesome. :)

Well, I've tried to use all Halo music, for a few reasons. Number one, not everyone likes the same style of music (and most people dont like 99% of music used in montages). Number 2, Marty am God. Number 3, Theres some decent music across the games and I can fit most of the clips sent in to most of the various songs I've used. If it turns out crappy and lame I may revisit and add some crazy screamo and Linkin Park :D
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
LukeSmith said:
Winning as a Team in the Arena will be important, but we're not submitting your team results to Trueskill, we're submitting yours.

See you are putting me on warning by saying this, I can't use a team as a crutch as effectively as I can with 3, so I'll need to be as pro-active as possible in the Arena. Suppose it's a better deal for other players as they won't have to carry lesser players.

I like it already. Forcing me to go outside of my comfort zone if I want similar (productive) results as 3 (progression).
 

Gui_PT

Member
BladedExpert said:
Well, I've tried to use all Halo music, for a few reasons. Number one, not everyone likes the same style of music (and most people dont like 99% of music used in montages). Number 2, Marty am God. Number 3, Theres some decent music across the games and I can fit most of the clips sent in to most of the various songs I've used. If it turns out crappy and lame I may revisit and add some crazy screamo and Linkin Park :D

Sounds like a nice choice :D

You have any idea when it might be finished?
 
Just got caught up. Pretty good update, Urk. The more I hear about commendations, the more I like 'em. Hearing that achievements net you some credits as well is a welcomed addition.

Can't wait for the next podcast.
 

Kapura

Banned
LukeSmith said:
Except it really doesn't.
Trueskill in Halo 3 is at its best and most accurate in Free For All, otherwise there are all kinds of other variables (like your teammates) that are contributing to your Rank going up or down. That it positively reinforced your beliefs that you were improving is by design - because we decelerated Trueskill in H3 to artificially introduce a progression. It's not you manipulating Trueskill, it's really the other way around.

Additionally, (in H3) there's all kinds of other factors that result in people getting carried to particular ranks by players. Winning as a Team in the Arena will be important, but we're not submitting your team results to Trueskill, we're submitting yours.
hed asplode

So, then, our trueskill ranks will be somewhat independent of our team, but our matchmaking still will be based on the trueskill of each player. I don't know exactly what trueskill looks like, but for sake of simplicity lets call it a single number. Will Matchmaking then try to find a similar spread of skills to match us against, something representing an average like the mean or median, or try to match the best players against the most even and shaft the players who play poorly?
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Hydranockz said:
Speaking of customs. We can has customs before 2am awesome time Dani? :p perhaps around 10pm? (4 hours from now)

Since you asked so nicely. I'll hop on in about ten minutes and see what we can get done, most likely we'll not have enough and just hop into MM instead.

Also, folks, HaloGAF Customs later tonight! Usual time, usual place! We'll have a few absentees due to PAX but I'm sure we can make up for it!

There's only a relative handful of HaloGAF Customs nights left until the Beta hits, a nice way to count down the weeks!

Kapura said:
hed asplode

So, then, our trueskill ranks will be somewhat independent of our team, but our matchmaking still will be based on the trueskill of each player. I don't know exactly what trueskill looks like, but for sake of simplicity lets call it a single number. Will Matchmaking then try to find a similar spread of skills to match us against, something representing an average like the mean or median, or try to match the best players against the most even and shaft the players who play poorly?

It's been said that the matchmaking for Arena matches against the highest person on your team. Don't bring a date, etc.
 
LukeSmith said:
Except it really doesn't.
Trueskill in Halo 3 is at its best and most accurate in Free For All, otherwise there are all kinds of other variables (like your teammates) that are contributing to your Rank going up or down. That it positively reinforced your beliefs that you were improving is by design - because we decelerated Trueskill in H3 to artificially introduce a progression. It's not you manipulating Trueskill, it's really the other way around.

Additionally, (in H3) there's all kinds of other factors that result in people getting carried to particular ranks by players. Winning as a Team in the Arena will be important, but we're not submitting your team results to Trueskill, we're submitting yours.

I feel so… cheated :lol

Its quite interesting hearing about the deceleration, its something I haven’t heard of, but it certainly matches my experience. I was stuck at around 43ish for months before I had a big surge in rank to hit 48ish were the cycle restarted. Im convinced I improved a lot as a player when the ranking up occurred, but I certainly agree with the other factors, such as the effect of playing with a team.

By the way, my comments were only in relation to Halo 3 and weren’t meant to be related to Reach at all, which looks to have a much better system.

As for Customs I might come on a bit later but I need to get into a good sleep routine :(
 

Sai

Member
Haven't played in a while, especially with you guys. Customs are still at around 9 EST, right? I'll try to be there, may bring a friend or two.
 
LukeSmith said:
Except it really doesn't.
Trueskill in Halo 3 is at its best and most accurate in Free For All, otherwise there are all kinds of other variables (like your teammates) that are contributing to your Rank going up or down. That it positively reinforced your beliefs that you were improving is by design - because we decelerated Trueskill in H3 to artificially introduce a progression. It's not you manipulating Trueskill, it's really the other way around.

Additionally, (in H3) there's all kinds of other factors that result in people getting carried to particular ranks by players. Winning as a Team in the Arena will be important, but we're not submitting your team results to Trueskill, we're submitting yours.

So glad of this. I don't have anyone on my friends list who played Halo 3 so I went into every match of every mode solo to get paired with randoms. Couldn't ever get past 45 ;_;
 
What is the consenus on the map Citadel? I flippin love it. It has a very strong Halo1/Halo2 vibe to it. Not only that, but there is no controlling that map as a team, which is a huge plus since I usually play ungrouped.

In contrast, you have Heretic, a map that all the hard-core players have been playing on since Halo2. Games on that map turn into the usual 2-3 people who find their customary camping positions and just sit there the whole entire game, a style of play that I despise. Usually, I am on a team of 4 non-grouped people versus a team of at least 3, if not 4 grouped as a party. So I generally just go around and tell everyone how lame they are while getting killed repeatedly (without a mic plugged in of course).

This makes me want remakes of maps less and less. I want people to have to figure out how to play new maps, and put some effort into their play. For some reason I get really annoyed by the people who go to the special control points and never move. I guess it's because I like originality in game-play and all I see is cookie cutter play instead (this may also be part of the reason I hate vehicles). This is a byproduct of maps that are all about map control. And without something like the pistol from Halo1, I get really irritated by it.

I suppose that is why I love maps like Standoff, and The Pit.

Another side-note: Health Regenerators. I hate them. Hope they get removed in Reach. They're just as powerful as overshields, if not more so, and respawn much quicker, and are usually found in multiple places on a map. Its use is redundant, and annoying.
 

Magni

Member
Deputy Moonman said:
What is the consenus on the map Citadel? I flippin love it. It has a very strong Halo1/Halo2 vibe to it. Not only that, but there is no controlling that map as a team, which is a huge plus since I usually play ungrouped.

In contrast, you have Heretic, a map that all the hard-core players have been playing on since Halo2. Games on that map turn into the usual 2-3 people who find their customary camping positions and just sit there the whole entire game, a style of play that I despise. Usually, I am on a team of 4 non-grouped people versus a team of at least 3, if not 4 grouped as a party. So I generally just go around and tell everyone how lame they are while getting killed repeatedly (without a mic plugged in of course).

This makes me want remakes of maps less and less. I want people to have to figure out how to play new maps, and put some effort into their play. For some reason I get really annoyed by the people who go to the special control points and never move. I guess it's because I like originality in game-play and all I see is cookie cutter play instead (this may also be part of the reason I hate vehicles). This is a byproduct of maps that are all about map control. And without something like the pistol from Halo1, I get really irritated by it.

I suppose that is why I love maps like Standoff, and The Pit.

Another side-note: Health Regenerators. I hate them. Hope they get removed in Reach. They're just as powerful as overshields, if not more so, and respawn much quicker, and are usually found in multiple places on a map. Its use is redundant, and annoying.

I agree with you on Citadel, it is an awesome map, with a really nice old school Halo vibe. However, "there is no controlling that map as a team" lolwut?

Heretic is excellent, a shame you don't like it, but I've yet to see any camping on it. Lots of players using Halo 2 strats and holding down key points on the map though. A guy holding down P3 isn't camping. A guy waiting with a shotgun in a corner is camping. ;-)

And the Regen is IMO the worst equipment in Halo 3. I dislike equipment in general, but that one felt so random. Some times it made you invincible, sometimes it didn't do shit. And like all equipment, it always deployed once you were dead.

I hope we get some remakes in Reach, if we get 15 maps at launch, having three or four remakes wouldn't bother me at all :D Damnation from Halo 1, Battle/Beaver Creek from Halo 1/2, Sanctuary from Halo 2, and Midship/Heretic from Halo 2/3 for example :D
 

Ten-Song

Member
MagniHarvald said:
I hope we get some remakes in Reach, if we get 15 maps at launch, having three or four remakes wouldn't bother me at all :D Damnation from Halo 1, Battle/Beaver Creek from Halo 1/2, Sanctuary from Halo 2, and Midship/Heretic from Halo 2/3 for example :D

Considering the quality of a lot of Halo 3's maps, Reach would instantly be the better product in my view if every single map it had was a remake of a Halo 2 map. :/
 
Deputy Moonman said:
What is the consenus on the map Citadel? I flippin love it. It has a very strong Halo1/Halo2 vibe to it. Not only that, but there is no controlling that map as a team, which is a huge plus since I usually play ungrouped.

In contrast, you have Heretic, a map that all the hard-core players have been playing on since Halo2. Games on that map turn into the usual 2-3 people who find their customary camping positions and just sit there the whole entire game, a style of play that I despise. Usually, I am on a team of 4 non-grouped people versus a team of at least 3, if not 4 grouped as a party. So I generally just go around and tell everyone how lame they are while getting killed repeatedly (without a mic plugged in of course).

This makes me want remakes of maps less and less. I want people to have to figure out how to play new maps, and put some effort into their play. For some reason I get really annoyed by the people who go to the special control points and never move. I guess it's because I like originality in game-play and all I see is cookie cutter play instead (this may also be part of the reason I hate vehicles). This is a byproduct of maps that are all about map control. And without something like the pistol from Halo1, I get really irritated by it.

I suppose that is why I love maps like Standoff, and The Pit.

Another side-note: Health Regenerators. I hate them. Hope they get removed in Reach. They're just as powerful as overshields, if not more so, and respawn much quicker, and are usually found in multiple places on a map. Its use is redundant, and annoying.

One of the games I played that day I got totally screwed before you came in and saved the day was on Citadel - my entire team quit and the 4 of them simply stood at a spawn point each and destroyed me.

Citadel is pretty cookie cutter in my opinion :(

I dont enjoy Heretic just because I dont like the gameplay on it, I agree with you on that one. I dont think the fact that its a remake influences this though.
 

LukeSmith

Member
Kapura said:
hed asplode

So, then, our trueskill ranks will be somewhat independent of our team, but our matchmaking still will be based on the trueskill of each player. I don't know exactly what trueskill looks like, but for sake of simplicity lets call it a single number. Will Matchmaking then try to find a similar spread of skills to match us against, something representing an average like the mean or median, or try to match the best players against the most even and shaft the players who play poorly?

OK, using your example a 4, 3, 2 and 1 form a team (where 4 is the highest rating possible).
You'll be matched based on the 4.

bobs99 ... said:
Its quite interesting hearing about the deceleration, its something I haven’t heard of, but it certainly matches my experience. I was stuck at around 43ish for months before I had a big surge in rank to hit 48ish were the cycle restarted. Im convinced I improved a lot as a player when the ranking up occurred, but I certainly agree with the other factors, such as the effect of playing with a team.

Then this next part is probably going to hurt:
You didn't improve. You played enough games at 43, presumably with a team, and a good one at that, where they carried your Trueskill number beyond where you'd been dialed in.
 
LukeSmith said:
Then this next part is probably going to hurt:
You didn't improve. You played enough games at 43, presumably with a team, and a good one at that, where they carried your Trueskill number beyond where you'd been dialed in.

Wow thats insane, so the H3 system had NO way of accounting for player improvement? That essentially means that ranking up (once you are dialled in) is essentially playing lucky dip with the set of random team mates you get and whether you win that particular match or not.

That system sounds... really bad :lol
 
For the most part, I'm pretty competitive, too competitive, in fact. This is unfortunate since I know I'm not as good as a lot of people that play Halo. In Halo2. taking a break from competitive play and switching to a lower ranked gametype, or social playlist for that matter was a huge plus for me, even if it was a little cheap. I worry that I won't catch any breaks with Trueskill. With Halo3's system, it doesn't matter what playlist I go to, I'm almost always playing 40+ level players and it's wearing me down.

Is that pretty sad of me that I wish I could jump into a different playlist and whoop up on some unsuspecting, lower-skilled players? I would ask this right after I call players lame for they way they play the game. :lol

bobs99 ... said:
That system sounds... really bad :lol
(^_^)b Deputy Moonman likes this
:lol
 

Kibbles

Member
bobs99 ... said:
Wow thats insane, so the H3 system had NO way of accounting for player improvement? That essentially means that ranking up (once you are dialled in) is essentially playing lucky dip with the set of random team mates you get and whether you win that particular match or not.

That system sounds... really bad :lol
It is. I remember winning like 8 games in a row, not leveling up, losing 1, winning, then loosing 2 or something and I leveled down. So now whenever I join a party and they are like "Oh, you sure you want to play with your high level?" I just say, I don't give a shit, my rank is ruined already. I gave up on going for 50, and I'm not going to make an alternate account like all the cool kids do.
 

zumphry

Banned
:lol

Just easily won a Living Dead game on Orbital (Andromeda) by sitting on the pillar in the attacker's/red base. Did that three games in a row, and yet nobody came after me until I was marked as the Last Man Standing.

:lol :lol
 
Kibbles said:
It is. I remember winning like 8 games in a row, not leveling up, losing 1, winning, then loosing 2 or something and I leveled down. So now whenever I join a party and they are like "Oh, you sure you want to play with your high level?" I just say, I don't give a shit, my rank is ruined already. I gave up on going for 50, and I'm not going to make an alternate account like all the cool kids do.

Same exact problem I had, I guess I just got a lucky spin of the roullette wheel. I have to say though, that I read once you were 'locked' that you had to win over 50% of your games to rank up, so I made sure I only played when I could win (I.e not too early :lol ) . I cant believe that my ranking up was just co incidental.
 

kylej

Banned
DiabolicalBagel said:
Miss your target by 6 feet, bullet goes through the tiniest possible gap in a wall and nails someone else in the head. Dayum, why can't I have luck like that?
Guy must have been so pissed, too. :lol

Did you get any rage messages?

Nah. I'm sure that guy had no idea what happened. Hell, I had no idea what happened. The odds of a snipe like that have to be nearly the same as winning the lottery.

This is the best message I've received this month from a recent player
what(1).png
 

fin

Member
Luke talking shop in the thread brings a tear to my eye, great stuff. I'm going to ramble on here for a bit...

The focus on 'Player Investment' sounds like it's going to pay off. But man, it must be tough to plan how people may take advantage and try a break the system, preemptively before the masses play it. I really like the sounds of the rating system.

In my mind, I'm a good player at Halo 3. In fact, I think I'm better than my buddy. But he's got a rank of 46 and I've been stuck at 44 forever. So there is this 'illusion' that he's better than me. He's even got a cooler logo beside his name, the hawk. But now it seems like this battle will finally be won. Per game/Daily/weekly/monthy ratings will be a huge incentive to keep me playing Reach. I hope that the HUD still includes the real-time indication or rating in it. I have a tendency to get greedy and fuck-up my game.

I've prestiged twice Modern Warfare 2 and now I've lost interest. But Battlefield BC2 is a big cause of that. I've unlocked everything in BC2. So the 'rewards' of playing that game online is just having good games on interesting maps. Pretty simply, if the game is good I will play it. That's all it really takes for me.

The best way to keep me interested in online mutliplayer, is to keep providing content post-launch. This is something I think Halo 3 dropped the ball on. Although my expectations at the time were that I'd be playing Halo 3 online till Halo 4 was out.

My point is, after I'm done unlocking cool sheez for my dude. I'm still going to want good content post-launch. If the game play holds up, which it probably will, just give me some more maps. Or ship with a ton of maps. So it doesn't get boring, for me.

Another thing I'm interested in is the networking. I'd like to hear how Bungie is improving the internetz for Reach.

But yeah, Reach is going to be sweet.
 

Ten-Song

Member
fin said:
Luke talking shop in the thread brings a tear to my eye, great stuff. I'm going to ramble on here for a bit...

The focus on 'Player Investment' sounds like it's going to pay off. But man, it must be tough to plan how people may take advantage and try a break the system, preemptively before the masses play it. I really like the sounds of the rating system.

In my mind, I'm a good player at Halo 3. In fact, I think I'm better than my buddy. But he's got a rank of 46 and I've been stuck at 44 forever. So there is this 'illusion' that he's better than me. He's even got a cooler logo beside his name, the hawk. But now it seems like this battle will finally be won. Per game/Daily/weekly/monthy ratings will be a huge incentive to keep me playing Reach. I hope that the HUD still includes the real-time indication or rating in it. I have a tendency to get greedy and fuck-up my game.

I've prestiged twice Modern Warfare 2 and now I've lost interest. But Battlefield BC2 is a big cause of that. I've unlocked everything in BC2. So the 'rewards' of playing that game online is just having good games on interesting maps. Pretty simply, if the game is good I will play it. That's all it really takes for me.

The best way to keep me interested in online mutliplayer, is to keep providing content post-launch. This is something I think Halo 3 dropped the ball on. Although my expectations at the time were that I'd be playing Halo 3 online till Halo 4 was out.

My point is, after I'm done unlocking cool sheez for my dude. I'm still going to want good content post-launch. If the game play holds up, which it probably will, just give me some more maps. Or ship with a ton of maps. So it doesn't get boring, for me.

Another thing I'm interested in is the networking. I'd like to hear how Bungie is improving the internetz for Reach.

But yeah, Reach is going to be sweet.

What actually interests me with the idea of player investment, is if they really want to nip at Warcraft's heels with such an idea, that means the content they provide to keep the game fresh shouldn't just be new maps. With the arena system in WoW, new seasons means new gear and weapons, and I have no idea how Reach can tap into that, aside from I guess providing new armor permutations for players to unlock? New weapons would obviously be out of the question just for the sake of maintaining balance to some easier degree, but I wonder if there's infrastructure in place to have new armor unlocks come up. Or shit, maybe even new equipment?

I like that they're trying to be Warcraf-ish about it. But if they're just going to scratch at that kind of thing on a surface level, it could risk appearing as really superficial and pointless.
 
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