-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Dirtbag said:
A chopper with constant boost? Where do I sign up?
Kapura said:
Soil what now? Did I miss some soil samples? I can cook up a few dozen articles on soil analysis and maybe a handful of soil retrospectives. Don't be holding out on soil with me here. I'm desperate. :lol
Schmitty
Member
I'd have to disagree with you. The hill in the middle of Vahalla with the laser totally killed the map. The whole time it was just a fight for the hill. Vahalla wasn't very vehicle friendly either. It was so hard to navigate anything bigger than a Warthog around that level.dslgunstar said:
Coagulation was much more open and there was no way to really totally control the map. I also love vehicle combat, so I'd have to say that Coag was definitely more vehicle based than Vahalla. Coag was also much larger too.
The Librarian
Banned
The spartan laser being on Valhalla isn't the map's fault. Put some rockets in the laser's place, then go play a game. Come back and tell me that it isn't vehicle friendly. Valhalla is way more awesome than it is without the laser. There's just no comparison.Schmitty said:
I was expecting sometime at the end of the week. Glad to hear it's coming next week.Popeck said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Schmitty said:
Bigger than a Hog? So a Wraith or Scorpion then? You complain that Valhalla doesn't suit your tank needs?
It's a fine vehicle map, the mongoose, Hog, and Banshee (=\) work just fine with the standard MM setup.
The laser, missile pods and power drainers ruin the vehicle fun on the map however. Too much anti-vehicle devices.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
I'm watching the Halo 2 Making Of for the first time since I recently bought the LE of Halo 2 from Amazon.
Wow.
Wow.
I need to go to Wu's house!
dslgunstar
Banned
Schmitty said:
I dont have as much of a problem with the Laser as most people on this forum do.
Yes, it discourages the use of vehicles, but you could just as easily rephrase that to say it discourages vehicular dominance. In Halo: CE and Halo 2, almost every large map was completely dominated by vehicles. The laser just tilts the vehicle/infantry relationship a little harder towards infantry.
I dont really have a preference between on-foot combat and vehicular combat, so I dont really mind that shift in power. There's still plenty of vehicular mayhem in Halo 3, players are just a little bit less reckless and more responsible with their vehicle usage.
Sai said:
That's another good point. The vehicles in Halo 3 are even stronger than those in Halo 2, so rocket splash damage and grenades arent as effective at upending them, and stickies arent even a guaranteed kill (thought more often than not they do get the job done). So basically, Halo 3 traded a few options for one really good one. Vehicles only really have one weapon to worry about in this game.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Halo 2 Making of >>>>>>>>>> Halo 3 Making Of.Domino Theory said:
Legendary Disc Developer Commentary >>> all.
The Librarian
Banned
Is this on waypoint?Zeouterlimits said:
Edit: no.
Not really. There are plenty of ways in Halo 3, and even more so in Reach, to take out vehicles that are a lot fairer. Plasma pistol, tripmine, energy drainer, missile pod, sticky grenades, brute shot....dslgunstar said:
That's not due to the map's design, that's due to the laser being there. Playing games on Valhalla without the laser, it's less about the middle and more about the whole map.Deputy Moonman said:
Deputy Moonman
Member
I totally agree. I simply misinterpreted what everyone was referring to as "map week" without thinking about when the last 3 reveals were released.GhaleonEB said:
I never experienced the 1-sided battles that can occur in Valhalla when playing Coagulation. It could be coincidence, but I think it is more to do with the layout of Valhalla. Due to the map's design, it always becomes a battle for the middle. Coagulation was never really about controlling the middle, probably because it was a lot more open and more risky to stand out in the middle with good cover offered on the sides and safe transport from either base to the sides via teleports. I think I mentioned it an earlier post, but it's far too easy for a team to casually control the middle of Valhalla and pin a team back and that is because of all the protection provided in the middle.Kapura said:
Major Williams
Member
Fixed.Zeouterlimits said:
dslgunstar
Banned
big ander said:
Exactly. A little bit of team coordination and taking the hill is hardly an impossible feat.
Two guys in a warthog wait for the remainder of the team to pin down or kill whoever has the laser, then they rush in immediately to clean up the rest of the infantry.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Anyone on H3 right now? Want to party up?
dslgunstar
Banned
Dax01 said:
I dont like the missile pod because it locks on. Yes, the missiles are slow and relatively easy to evade, but the fact is you can fire and forget without even lining up the reticule. Thats the opposite of fair. But yes, it is effective at taking out vehicles provided the driver is too stupid to evade.
I dont really find the Brute Shot that effective against vehicles, maybe you're just better with it than I am. I usually put 3-5 shells into a hog, watch it roll over, and then have to take on the two guys that hop out without any significant damage.
Sticky grenades work better than frags (or rocket splash...direct hits from the rocket will still do the trick, but you better be damn good/fast at leading shots with the reduced sight-lines in Valhalla), but because Halo 3 vehicles are so much tougher, you can actually stick a vehicle without taking it out. Frustrating when it happens, believe me.
Plasma pistol, tripmine and energy drainer are all true, and I try to use them to the fullest when the Laser isnt available.
Still, as far as stopping a vehicle dead in its tracks, the Laser is really the only 100% effective weapon in the Halo 3 sandbox. If you dont want it to have as much of an impact, then focus on pinning it down. Its no different than working to secure any other power weapon or item, whether it was the rockets/snipes on BG or Coag, or the cloak/doubleshield anywhere else. Holding down weapons and controlling areas has always been what Halo is about.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Seems like Urk is asking for people to nominate groups for 'Weekly Favorites' - is Gaf able to participate in this? This place already put up stuff on Weekly Favorites before I was a member I think?
If 'we' can participate that would be awesome.
P.S. Is it just me, or is that grenade indicator just a bit too big on the HuD
If 'we' can participate that would be awesome.
P.S. Is it just me, or is that grenade indicator just a bit too big on the HuD
Zeouterlimits said:
Agreed, the Developer Commentary from the Legendary Edition was totally awesome. I really enjoyed hearing Jones', Marty's, and Joe's thoughts on Halo 1/2 after working on Halo 3. If there's another 'Legendary Edition' for Reach, I'd love to see another Developer Commentary included. Maybe have a Halo 3 commentary on a separate disc similar to what they did for the LE, or pull a Valve and have floating dialogue boxes throughout Reach's Campaign that you can interact with that has a Bungie employee talking about that particular area - whether it's just the environment, a bug that gave a lot of trouble, the A.I. and how it works, or just whatever.
Edit: Fixed, Kibbles! ;P
The Librarian
Banned
I don't understand this complaint. So what if it's lock-on? As long as it's fair, what does it matter? And the laser may as well be a "fire and forget" weapon with its huge-ass reticule and sniper-like precision that can kill someone from one side of the map to the other (on any map).dslgunstar said:
Follow it up with some grenades and you're golden, plus the brute shot damages the people in the vehicle not just the vehicle itself. The key is to keep 'em off balance. I hardly encounter any instances where the two guys got out in time from me hitting them with a bruteshot and I wasn't able to take at least one of 'em down.
Uh, have you played H2 recently? Halo 3 vehicles are very vulnerable to sticky grenades. All it takes is two sticky grenades anywhere to take out a warthog. All you have to do is accept that you might die a couple of times before you take care of the vehicle. I mean, dieing a couple of times and taking care of a warthog with sticky grenades is a much better alternative than the warthog getting 10 or more kills on your team. Take a look at this game. My ToD was the plasma grenade and I got all my double kills with a plasma grenade. Why? Because I kept killing the enemy team's warthog with 'em, and I even manage to go positive.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Kibbles said:
I was slightly annoyed that the ODST "collectors" edition only came with an extra joypad, for DLC that went straight to retail I'm sure there's some great stories behind it.
dslgunstar
Banned
Dax01 said:
Well it COULD kill someone at one end of the map from the other, if you had a clear line of sight. Thats why Valhalla is a great map in my mind. There is no direct line of sight from one end to the other in any direction. Theres large-scale and small-scale cover for infantry and vehicle alike.
Laser may be powerful, but it still takes skill to use. The risk/reward of the charge/cool down isnt perfect, but it makes you pick your spots and pay for your misses. Unlike the missile pod, where you can just unleash a torrent of missiles at a rapid rate just by pointing in the general direction. Yes, the Spartan Laser is a precise weapon, but you actually have to AIM for that precision to be an advantage. I think for a weapon to be fair, you have to aim it.
Dax01 said:
We have a different metric for success. Yes, you can negate a vehicle for a few seconds with the Brute shot, but if it only leads to a 2-on-1 against you then thats hardly an improvement. Youd probably be able to take out one of them before going down, but then the other one goes, flips over the warthog and youre basically back to square one. Im personally thrilled that the Brute shot is being replaced with the grenade launcher, it looks like a huge improvement.
Dax01 said:
I dont think the reward for using stickies against vehicles is great enough to compensate for the risk, which is why you rarely see anyone use them against a vehicle except as a last ditch effort. Staring at a hog barreling down at you with the turret firing away, theyre a great why the hell not option, but not much more than that.
It takes a lot of skill to nail a fast-moving vehicle with one sticky at anything beyond instant-death distance, let alone two, so I think that sticking one so should deal more damage, if not to the vehicle, then certainly the drivers. Obviously the location that the grenade sticks should have an impact. Hit the back end, kill the guy on the turret, hit the middle on the side, take out the shields of all passengers (so that with a little teamwork, some BRs or ARs can finish the job), hit the engine, take out the driver.
Its all good to say accept that you might die a few times but those deaths could mean the difference between victory and defeat in slayer, and the respawn time could be the difference between a flag cap or a successful defense in objective. Hardly a fair price to pay just to take one vehicle out of the equation. And if you feel that it is a fair price, that vehicles SHOULD be game-changers, then thats fine I just dont mind one weapon being a game changer as well.
All great points Dax, Im enjoying this
I think gaf had 2 weeks already but if Dani were to get Forward Unto Dawn in there not only would it be a great promotion for his site but I might be able to get more of my stuff into bungie favsbobs99 ... said:
*hint hint* Dani *hint hint*
you could also sign up at Forward Unto Dawn if you haven't already to get yourself in
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Pennybags said:
What is your GT, I just hopped off for a minute to get something to drink bu twill be back on in a little bit.
Taking a short break cause getting annoyed with being placed on team with people who are trying to "de-rank" really? I am trying to rank and I keep getting stuck with people who are apologizing saying that they are trying to loose levels??? Really annoying.
In the Ranked Big Team and such, there were BR starts in Coagulation. There were also one Banshee, a chain-gun, a gauss, and a Ghost.Kapura said:
What did you expect about spawns? It was overly open, Snipers were dangerous in the cliff and teleporter areas, but never did people spawn in the middle of the map when a flag was taken from their base. Nothing more irritating in Valhalla (other than Spartan Laser, of course) is grabbing the opposing team's flag, only to have them either spawn at the Pelican, or the cave, pending whichever side you took it from. It's still a BTB map with a few more hills and crunched up. Large maps in Halo 2 were wide and allowed freedom with vehicles.
The Librarian
Banned
The skill it takes to use the laser is little-to-none, especially against vehicles. Again, its huge-ass reticule and sniper-like precision hardly gives it any weight as a weapon of skill, especially against vehicles because the aim assist is HUGE.dslgunstar said:
Also, I could argue that it takes skill to use the missile pod in that you have to know when you should fire the missiles and how many in order to conserve ammunition. Knowing when to fire, and taking into account how long the missiles will take to reach their target, and from that, making sure the enemy doesn't have enough time to go into cover, I would argue, takes skill. It's skill of a different kind.
Taking out only one person does take care of the warthog for a short time, which may enable your team to do something that would otherwise would've been impossible or very difficult to do with the warthog driving around. Again, I've hardly ever encountered a situation where the two occupants of the warthog were able to get out and pose a real threat to me. Usually, if they get out, I just lob a couple of frags and they're either dead or their shields are down.
The reward is a double kill, maybe even a triple, and the end of a pesky problem. Plus, it's extremely satisfying to kill a hog with plasma grenades...at least for me.
It's not that hard, man. I do it all the time, I even linked that game to you to show you.
Anymore than the warthog getting 10+ kills on your team? Again, it's a better alternative to die a couple of times than the warthog getting a killingfrenzy on your team. It's better than your team being suppressed by it? Unable to prevent the flag carrier from reaching his/her base cause they'll just be killed by the warthog?
I understand what you're saying, but the way I see it, the longer that warthog is out and about and able to kill, the worse off your team will be. The sooner you take it out the better.
I disagree with a lot of this, but I won't go through it all (gotta leave that for Dax - Edit: haha). But I wanted to object to the bolded portion in particular. The Missile Pod is, under most situations, much less of a guaranteed kill than the laser is. For starters, you have to target a vehicle that's taking a fairly wide angle to your position at moderate distance - or head-on - otherwise the shots will go wide. They travel slowly enough that even medium distances and cover enables a vehicle to juke them. (Valhalla is a good example - Warthogs can shake the missiles by weaving the boulders or heading over the hill.) A Banshee can out turn them and almost out run them on a boost. There's far more notice to the target that they are being targeted, relative to the laser. And you can't pick off infantry from long-range with it. If the laser user misses you, it's entirely their fault, as once targeted, you can't do much to avoid it.dslgunstar said:
So while you can fire off a flurry of missiles, there's only certain situations where doing so is actually useful. I see far more missile pod failures than I do laser failures online. I'm also decent at avoiding death when the missile pod is pointed my way.
(Plus, it's fun to screw with people using the missile pod - just targeting them, but not firing, is enough to get a driver to freak out. I've kept Banshees spazzing out on Sandtrap by holding them in lock for ages at a time. It's a hoot.)
Hydranockz
Member
Nostalgia of Halo 2 was shattered by XBL. People are so good online! Me and my friends just had a laugh on system link but some guys were donging me pretty hard when I played online for the first time tonight I lol'd at how badly I throw grenades and you really hav to plan ahead wit the melee. I loved it!!
I lol'd at how badly I throw grenades and you really hav to plan ahead wit the melee. I loved it!!Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
GhaleonEB said:
Wait, what? I thought the lock on detection only worked for fired missiles. I got try this some time. Mind blown.
Hydranockz
Member
Haha, I can see why you may have thought otherwise but damn I can't wait for Saturday now haha.Dani said:
Yeah, once the lock-on targeting fires up, the person in the sights gets a warning. I often run the missile pod down to just one missile, and then use it to bluff vehicles into turning back from a run on the base.Dani said:
Of course, now that I've written that, GAF is going to ignore me every time I'm lugging the thing around. :lol
The Librarian
Banned
Better safe than sorry, man.GhaleonEB said:
Deputy Moonman
Member
At the rate this thread has been moving, I probably missed it, but Urk mentioned that the Ordinance section of the Reach page had been updated yesterday for anyone who didn't notice.
http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Reach/default.aspx
http://www.bungie.net/Projects/Reach/default.aspx
ToyMachine228
Member
THIS is the Halo community I know. Deciphering blurry pictures, looking for kernels of information. I love it.
Is it just me or does the Gravity Hammer look smaller than it did in Halo 3/ODST?
that'swhatshesaid /Michael Scott